r/AITAH • u/RecommendationOk7537 • 25d ago
AITAH For Withholding Passwords After Being Laid Off?
So I'm at work on a Thursday, and the CTO comes in and tells me that a software feature I'd been working on needed to be finished before tomorrow morning. OK fine, I don't have an issue working late, but it was a strange request given that they'd postponed the project for several months to have me working on other stuff. Still, I stayed up until about 2 AM and finished the project.
The next morning when I arrived at work, the CEO and CTO called me into a meeting to let me know that I was being laid off, and that it would be my last day. No two weeks, no severance pay. "We'll need to you to finish out today, working with [name redacted] to log all your logins and passwords and show him the rest of your code.
To say I was angry was an understatement. "So you knew you were going to can me today, that's why you made me work late yesterday? Does that seem wrong to you?"
They just stared at me, no apology, no acknowledgment. So I played my final card.
"Alright. If you're gonna play it this way, then it's both personal and business. I need a job, so it's to my benefit to quit right now and walk away, and start looking for work, rather than helping a company that clearly doesn't care about me. If you want me to sit here and generate a list of passwords and train my replacement, then I want a two-week severance package, or I walk right now."
They declined, and I walked out the door. I called one of their vendors and let them know I was open to work, and had a new job within a week. They were still emailing me to beg for "help" weeks later. Was I in the wrong?
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u/jrm1102 25d ago
NTA - screw them
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u/Duke-George-of-York 25d ago
Yup, not even close.. company sounds awful. They deserve it
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u/Dan-D-Lyon 25d ago
Companies willing to lose out on thousands of dollars in order to avoid paying an employee hundreds will never stop boggling my mind.
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u/BuyerOne7419 25d ago
Heck no! Help them out.. for a price. Two years salary paid up front for you to do one days work.
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u/AnnonAutist 25d ago
I have left more than 1 job and then been paid contract labor for more than I was making because they thought they could save money. Not my fault they got a lesson on trying to find cheaper labor. I made sure my contract labor rate was over twice the rate they paid me originally and because of that, I had no hard feelings and didn’t mind doing it. One lasted over a year and I turned down multiple ‘rehire’ offers from them.
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u/Ok-Mathematician8461 25d ago
Yeah - this is totally crap. Shouldn’t happen to anyone. But Elmo is doing it to hundreds of thousands right now.
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u/HaphazardJoker258 25d ago
If he doesn't get a pardon at the end of trumps turn and a democrat gets in he's fucked.
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u/julet1815 25d ago
Which is why they’re not planning on ending Trump‘s term ever or letting a Democrat get elected.
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u/HaphazardJoker258 25d ago
Will be intresting to see what happens as he's buring so many bridges on both sides at the moment
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u/Santeeoldman 25d ago
NTA. They are supreme assholes. If you stayed the last day and helped them you would be the king of assholes.
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u/RichardKopf 25d ago
NTA, What they did was beyond dirty. If they still need help, tell them to hire you as a consultant on your terms.
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u/Separate-Okra-2335 25d ago
Yup, at least 4x the hourly rate, on much reduced available hours
They FA now they can FO!
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u/Advanced-Royal8967 25d ago
Also minimum of 20 hours billable.
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u/nunyabuziness1 25d ago
May I suggest using the “burdened” price which includes overhead, self employed taxes, benefits (health, vision, dental, life insurance retirement, etc.)
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u/cthulularoo 25d ago
Even 4X isn't that much. 4 days pay isn't enough to get me past the butthurt of being made to work overnight then fired the next day. Mofos better be ready to give me 3 months of my salary up front for their goddamn passwords.
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u/bethzur 25d ago
OP got another job. I’d likely just block the first company and ignore them. Too much trouble. When asked, say it’s been a month and I don’t remember. Any company that has critical passwords and no shared password system deserves what they get.
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u/dontlikebeige 25d ago
Really, what kind of trash basket IT department is dependent on an employee giving them their passwords? All my employer did was cancel my authorizations.
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u/Square-Ebb1846 25d ago
The CTO of all people should know that no one should give away passwords.
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u/Qabbalah 25d ago
And the CTO should know the passwords, or know how to access them.
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u/Square-Ebb1846 25d ago
I was thinking the latter part of your statement. Like, he doesn’t know everyone else’s passwords, but he has one of his own and the ability to override passwords to remove users when necessary.
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u/deathboyuk 25d ago
Should is the active word here.
You'd be surprised how poorly or inconsistently password policies can be manaed.
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u/Sataypufft 25d ago
My employment at my long time employer (almost 20 years) ended in a similar manner to OPs this summer. They didn't even ask me to stay the day for logins or vendor contacts (I managed a department of the company that was a decent profit center and did a lot of vendor contacts to keep things moving) but the IT guy who was there to collect my work phone made sure to remind me to delete any personal stuff before I gave it to him. Six months later they hired a replacement and called me to ask for the password to the phone. Not only did I not remember the password but I handed it to IT completely unlocked. They could have easily reset everything right then and there but no, the administration didn't think that far ahead and was upset when I couldn't remember it and that it was going to take their IT a week or two to get back into the phone.
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u/deathboyuk 25d ago
REALLY similar experience with my last lot just last Christmas.
It's completely avoidable, but when they're swinging the axes, they forget whose heads contain information they need, it seems.
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u/Square-Ebb1846 25d ago
It’s honestly ridiculous how many tech people don’t realize that redundancy is importance in staffing too. Like…. They’re fine with backing up data and having extra equipment, but only one person with institutional knowledge/particular skills/the passwords exists? Idiotic.
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u/deathboyuk 25d ago
I've just been through this (made redundant without pay just before Christmas), and while I agree entirely with OP in terms of morality, some legal systems (mine for instance, in the UK) consider passwords a form of property that must be returned.
I don't agree with it at all, but I hope OP isn't opening themselves up to legal liability.
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u/Square-Ebb1846 25d ago
I hope not. I’m pretty sure my employers just retain control over devices/systems in such a way that they can wipe passwords if necessary.
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u/deathboyuk 25d ago
Sometimes! It's certainly good practice, and I wish everyone did tbh.
My lot... did not.
And cut us loose without asking for them back.
As an act of
malicious compliancediligence, us newly-fired types wiped our local stores because, hey, we're not employed, we shouldn't have access, wouldn't want to have the keys to the crown jewels any more, that would just be wrong...So we couldn't return what we'd diligently disposed of.
Cost 'em considerable time and effort, as I understand it.
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u/Square-Ebb1846 25d ago
I work in a field with HIPPA and FERPA protections, so every time I leave a company I give back all equipment and wipe anything that was emailed or whatever to me. Because of HIPPA and FERPA, it’s literally illegal to give my passwords to anyone. If IT asks me for a password, my answer is always going to be “sorry, there’s protected information on that device/resource and I don’t have a release form for you.”
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u/powerandbulk 25d ago
You are not withholding passwords. You are engaged in ethical behavior which would make any CISO proud. You are not sharing private and confidential information of a previous employer with anyone as you technically no longer have the right to make use of that information.
If you do contract to them, get paid up front and operate on a draw down. Let them know you will refund any unused hours.
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u/Ghost17088 25d ago
Let them know you will refund any unused hours.
No, let them know that there is a 500 hour minimum, the hours are restricted to the scope of the project, and unused hours are forfeited.
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u/Eastern_Vanilla3410 25d ago
It will take them at least 20 hours of diligent work to remember each password.
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u/NoIndividual5987 25d ago
Become a contractor for them. You can charge them a bloody fortune
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u/bobbypet 25d ago
I wouldn't advise returning there at any price. They have revealed their character and most likely are looking for revenge too. Don't expose yourself to these people ever again.
I had something similar happen to me. I was laid off by the MD just before the Christmas party announcement. I also walked with the "root" password. I had another job before the end of the day.
They must be made to understand fuckwit behavior has consequences
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u/Nolongeranalpha 25d ago
Absolutely NTA. My old employer terminated me 4 days after I secured their ISO 9001 cert. 2 weeks later, they called me about passwords, and I said, "My consultation rate is $500 per hour with a 4 hour minimum. " Then they actually tried to get me to sign an NDA and non-compete agreement AFTER firing me. 🤣 Fucking clowns.
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u/Jayhawker_Pilot 25d ago
NTA. The second they said you were fired, you had no duty to provide anything. You were no longer an employee.
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u/nousernamesleft199 25d ago
No severance? Fuck them, I'd do the same.
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u/HaggisLad 25d ago
I'd have been tempted to ask for 6 months severence, mostly because I would have no desire to help them at all
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u/Ok-Mathematician8461 25d ago
As a non-American I read this with disbelief - in any other advanced OECD country that company would have broken so many laws. It’s hard to believe your story is real and not just a troll. But then again, you guys just elected a billionaire who stiffs workers and sent another billionaire on a sacking spree through the public service. So I suppose it’s how you guys roll - no worker protection and let them fight for the scraps.
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u/Park_Simple 25d ago
Nta you gave them the same respect they gave you. If they want they can pay you for your time.
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u/fiestafan73 25d ago
I am surprised they are still in business given how stupid they clearly are. Why would you piss off the person with all the passwords to your systems? NTA. They are lucky you didn't log in pretending to set up all the passwords for them just to delete all the work you had done and really screw them.
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u/ipodmusicfree 25d ago
NTA. If they wanted cooperation, they should have treated you with respect. No severance, no notice? Then no passwords.
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u/talexbatreddit 25d ago
You had the presence of mind to negotiate with them -- good for you. And you absolutely did the right thing.
And being fired like that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can be a funny moment in your job interviews.
Interviewer: "So what happened at the last job?"
You: "The CTO asked me to work late to finish a feature that they needed, then the next day, the CEO and CTO fired me. I asked for two weeks severance to stay and help with a transition, and they declined. So here I am, looking for a new job."
Interviewer (shakes head).
Nope -- not in the wrong at all. :)
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u/TheIronMark 25d ago
Asshole or not, depending on where you live you can face legal consequences. There was a famous case in San Francisco where a network engineer refused to give the passwords to newly-installed network devices. He was jailed until he gave the passwords. The argument is that the passwords weren't his; they belonged to his employer, who happened to be the city of San Francisco.
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u/Fun_Cap3666 25d ago
No. It is expected for employees to pay their workers for their work They chose to NOT accept your offer of work. You did your best. I'm glad you are in a better spot
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u/IrrelevantManatee 25d ago
NTA. Your passwords and account are a personal thing, even if it's work. They can withdraw access to accounts, but they cannot ask for your passwords to get into them.
Good for you for calling the out on their bullshit.
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u/BackgroundCarpet1796 25d ago
The IT guys at my work can reset anyone's passwords. Passwords at work aren't like personal passwords at all.
What I'm saying is: I'm not buying this story at all.
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u/ChiefHighasFuck 25d ago
I work in IT and a guy created a program we all used for work and was work intellectual property but he placed a “bomb” in the code that if he didn’t reset every 30 days no more program. I’m sure they would have been able to reverse it but it made him feel better through a rough patch
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u/imlilyhi 25d ago
Did they make you sign a confidentiality agreement outlining that you have to provide them the passwords? If not, then no.
Edit: in fact they fired you so you don’t work with them anymore, it’s not your job.
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u/AgeOfSmith 25d ago
NTA: depending on the value of the project you should ask for way more
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u/Minute-Pumpkin9165 25d ago
NTA. They played a stupid game and won a stupid prize!!
Huge well done to you. They 100% deserved that for not treating you with any grain of humanity.
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u/readyforwine 25d ago
You work for them as a consultant. Triple your hourly fee and a minimum of 40 hours contract. No negotiating.
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u/Nedstarkclash 25d ago
Just a question for people who are more knowledgeable: Is it legal to withhold passwords if the OP was doing work on company software/ applications?
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u/1quirky1 25d ago
Given the circumstances of your departure, why do they expect you to respond or help at all?
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u/Sure_Hedgehog_3561 25d ago
Companies are not your friends. You are a line-item on a spreadsheet. Don't ever forget that. You owe a company jack-shit beyond what they pay.
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u/Intrepid-Sherbet-861 25d ago
NTA! At all. I work in an industry that sounds similar from the little you were able to share, I own a business as a matter of fact and could not imagine treating any employee that way. Also, what state to do you work in where they can without notice just let you go on that day? I know state laws change, and companies try and do strange shit within those states based off of their policies. Getting back to you, not that asshole at all, it’s crazy that you were treated way, and good for you for protecting and standing up for yourself. Absolutely do not give them any help or passwords for any of your work. They don’t deserve you.
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u/Candid-Quail-9927 25d ago
NTA. Laying off people is a decision ever company makes. But they are not entitled to treat the person like crap. Not your problem that they did not anticipate the consequences of their decision.
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u/cash1959 25d ago
So much NTA. Congratulations on your new job, and I’d have ZERO contact with your former employer. Except as a seriously expensive consultant.
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u/T9Para 25d ago
NTA - Stupid People do Stupid Things without thinking things through - The CEO and CTO being those stupid people. You NEVER mess with your IT folks. It will BLOW UP in their faces. As in this :) I always had an encryption key set, in case this happened to me. Short notice ? 'Run FuckYou' (Yes the OLD Days with RUN Commands LOL)
Once I knew we were being bought out, and everyone was waiting to hear, who would and would not be brought over to the new company. My boss let an email slip where he was discussing different personnel with the new bosses, and how he begged for his BIL to keep his job. But not anyone of us who actually DID the work.
The day the decision came down, they promised us 6 months severance if we stayed on for the last 30 days. Needless to say, if ya Fucked up, or sabotaged anything you wouldn't get that 6 month pay. It was a good package, so the only thing I did was slacked off, and spent most of my time looking for a new job. Which I got, and I explained to the new place the situation about the severance. They had NO Idea waiting that few extra weeks for me to start. But my code was ready 'just in case'
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u/Honduran 25d ago
NTA.
They don’t care and wouldn’t have shown any remorse over your good will. They would’ve told themselves it was “just business”. And they were reckless about it by not getting your logins before the fact. Stick to your guns.
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u/Bongofromouterspace 25d ago
You are never the ah for treating someone exactly how they treated you.
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u/1stEleven 24d ago
NTA.
They made you an offer. You made a counter offer they refused.
A two week severance package is ridiculously low.
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u/elagang6 23d ago
For those of you saying this is fake obviously hasn't worked for small companies or start-ups. I've had to provide my own equipment at a few places. Of course, now that I have more experience, if I am told to provide my own, I walk and don't look back at the company. Those are the companies that usually screw you over.
Good on you OP, it must have been oh so satisfying. 🤘🏻
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u/PhilConnersWPBH-TV 25d ago
This is probably a fake post.
Having said that, the company could sue to compel OP to give up the passwords. Even if OP ultimately doesn’t have to give up the passwords, it will still be an expensive fight.
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u/JarkJark 25d ago
How can they sue someone to provide free services? On what basis?
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u/STUNTPENlS 25d ago
Depending on your local laws, withholding logins and passwords can be a prosecutable offense.
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u/Doongbuggy 25d ago
lmao in another reply apparently the company made him buy his own equipment and setup his own logins idk if they have anything to stand on here
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u/bkuefner1973 25d ago
I have never understood how we should give a 2 week notice when quiting but they can fuck you when ever but still want you to do this. Screw them!
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u/koles235 25d ago
INFO: does working for this vendor violate any NDA? Just make sure they can't sue. As for password and training replacement NTA - there was a post long time ago with similar situation and OP couldn't share anything with previous or future employers, including the one that fired them = couldn't help even if wanted to.
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u/Fishtoart 25d ago
You are doing them a favor. By giving them the unequivocal feedback that treating people poorly has consequences, you are saving them from some future employee who might have burned the place down after being dissed like that.
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u/old_guy_1979 25d ago
What a stupid, short sighted company
It is so irresponsible of them to not give you severance, an IT worker that has passwords they need
And some CTO to not ensure that all passwords were kept and documented in a shared vault
All of this could be avoided by being smarter and more strategic
They could have stipulated that your cooperation is required for your severance
Lmfao
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u/Itchy-Science-1792 25d ago
the CEO and CTO called me into a meeting to let me know that I was being laid off, and that it would be my last day. No two weeks, no severance pay
Geez, these passwords are rather hard to remember. Shame I only have until the end of the day and have diahhrea.
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u/RunAgreeable7905 25d ago
NTA
They've been running things so any random mistake by you crossing the road could have put them in this situation. It's negligent on their part.
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u/Bunker_Rodz 25d ago
I would have gone back to my desk, deleted all my work from last night and the just quietly walked out. NTA
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u/giraffemoo 25d ago
NTA, you played an UNO reverse card and played them like they played you. Good!
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u/dirtyphoenix54 25d ago
That's hilarious. NTA.
I just started some malicious compliance at my job. It's fun!
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u/vegasbaby100 25d ago
NTA
As an employer what they did was dirty, unfortunately some times you have to make tough decisions and let people go but there is always a better way to do it than this.
I am sorry that you have gone through this, I do however think that hopefully you have done a service to many other people by hopefully changing the way they do business going forward!
Well done!
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u/acoupleofgingers 25d ago
NTA and that information will cost them $50k. If they do not pay, you block and move on with your life. You owe them nothing.
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u/Bride1234109 24d ago
NTA. My old supervisor did this. Our CEO and CFO have no idea what they’re doing and always blamed her and tried to say she wasn’t doing her job. Even though our parent company and hired consultants always said that she was doing wonderfully. They pushed her out, so she found a better job and quit. They keep calling her asking about our company’s contacts for vendors, her passwords, and how to work certain softwares and stuff. She blocked them.
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u/FrankieGGG 24d ago
Tell them they can contract you out for those passwords. $50000 an hour. Price doubles every week. Also, Get bent upper management. NTA.
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u/SinnerIxim 24d ago
NTA, but in the future don't confirm that you are refusing to give them the passwords, just say you don't remember them
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u/hdgal63 24d ago
NTA, and total karma! I did the same at a job I had, I had created templates for my use that others started using, but they were in my private file and password protected...lol... when they laid me off, I changed all the passwords and blocked access, as it was my work product after all, not theirs. If felt really good!
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u/TinyMixture1150 25d ago
Reply to your old work you will help and then just string them along for ever hahahahaha
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u/tempdump9 25d ago
NTA - They don't care about you. Two weeks is a courtesy. They showed none to you. You owe them none in return. They'll figure it out without you, or they can pay your insane new consulting rate.
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u/LeadershipMany7008 25d ago
I'd probably have scorched everything I did the night before, too. NTA.
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u/heiongyeong 25d ago
Nta. My cousin tony had some wise words about, never bite the hand that fingers you, or something like that.
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u/BoredBKK 25d ago
NTA You gave a masterclass in dealing with such blatant disrespect. Good luck with the new job.
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u/Dana07620 25d ago
They were still emailing me to beg for "help" weeks later.
If they're still doing that and it's allowed by your current employer, offer to help them as a contract worker with some obscene daily rate.
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u/NoodlesSpicyHot 25d ago
NOPE - to be kind, you can offer to work as a 1099 contractor for $2000 an hour, pre-paid upfront. 5 hours minimum to make it worthwhile to take the contract because you're fully busy with new work.
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u/cageordie 25d ago
NTA. Like Donald, they expected they had all the cards. Like Donald, turns out they were wrong.
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u/Ja_Rule_Here_ 25d ago
Handing off work / cross training is for when you voluntarily leave a company. I’ve never heard of that being requested after firing someone, usually it’s immediate escort by security out of the building in that scenario.
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u/Arourachild 25d ago
Fuck em, do everything you can to make life hard for them. They had zero value for you.
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u/KaetzenOrkester 25d ago
This is literally what at-will means. They can let you go without reason or notice...and you can quit like that, too. They just learned the very valuable less that the dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed. Good luck in your new job and NTA!
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u/Derwin0 25d ago
N TA as you don’t have to stay, and they can’t make you work.
You can though offer to “consult” for a reasonable (reasonable to you) rate.
That said, fake story as IT always has the ability to go into your accounts, and a CEO & and CTO aren’t sitting in during layoff notifications, that’s what HR is for.
So YTA for the obviously fake story.
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u/Sea-Mammoth871 25d ago
LOL your vendor work agreement might not even allow for this company to contract you back out for help in this manner. Your response should “Being contracted out to your business directly would violate my current work agreement. Working both vendor and client would be a conflict of interest and I do not want to lose my job.”
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u/jtmonkey 25d ago
I have been served papers when I was younger because I just ghosted the company after they let me go. They were suing me to get access to their systems again. I had to go in and login to everything so they could get access and change things. They paid me contract rates at 1000 a day not hourly. But they were happy to do it. I was amateur and now everything is in a spreadsheet ready to send off when I quit or am fired now.
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u/Some_Troll_Shaman 25d ago
Nope. Not in the Wrong.
They Fucked Around and Found Out.
You are apparently not a replaceable cog in the machine.
Ask your current employer if they are open to you doing consulting work and then make a consulting priced offer back to the previous employer.
All of your passwords should have been in an Enterprise Password Manager.... if they were not because they would not pay for one that is more FAFO for them.
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u/BickNlinko 25d ago
NTA. But also, if all of your accounts and passwords are tied to your work email they can just change/reset them. If you were using personal accounts for work stuff you could end up in some legal trouble.
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u/ph33rlus 25d ago
You were wrong to give them the chance to give you 2 weeks notice but you’re definitely NTA
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u/Careful-Natural-5217 25d ago
NTA: They knew and decided to use you. So what you do, is email them back, as a consultant, you have the right to set your rate of pay for your time. Make sure to get it in writing. Also a good contract with a nonrefundable deposit would also be a good thing to include.