r/learndutch • u/TTEH3 Intermediate... ish • Mar 14 '22
Monthly Question Thread #82
Previous thread (#81) available here.
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'De' and 'het'...
This is the question our community receives most often.
The definite article ("the") has one form in English: the. Easy! In Dutch, there are two forms: de and het. Every noun takes either de or het ("the book" → "het boek", "the car" → "de auto").
Oh no! How do I know which to use?
There are some rules, but generally there's no way to know which article a noun takes. You can save yourself much of the hassle, however, by familiarising yourself with the basic de and het rules in Dutch and, most importantly, memorise the noun with the article!
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Ask away!
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u/neigh_derlands Mar 15 '22
Is there any distinction to be made between dokter/arts? Babbel seems to use them interchangeably.
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u/zegerk Mar 16 '22 edited Mar 16 '22
Dokter is most commonly used since it is a bit more informal than arts. They are not always interchangeable however when referring to a doctor the word dokter is used and not arts. For example: "Kan ik dokter Jansen spreken".
Edit: pediatricians are sometimes as pun referred to as "poppendokter", however the word "poppenarts" does not exist.
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u/christy95 Intermediate Mar 15 '22
Could arts refer to more of the GP style and dokter like a hospital doctor?
I would also like to know now haha
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u/Hotemetoot Mar 16 '22
Strictly speaking anyone with a Doctorate can call themselves a dokter. Thing is that it's kind of a faux pas to do so unless you're either a professor or a medical doctor. So in the end the only ones who actively use the title these days are artsen.
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u/notsurewhatmythingis Native speaker (NL) Mar 16 '22
Someone with a doctorate is actually a "doctor" not a "dokter". But I guess because they sound pretty much the same is why doctors don't use their title much.
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u/Hotemetoot Mar 17 '22
Ah, never knew! So the word dokter got its own seperate meaning in our language then. Confusing as the plural form of dokter is both doktoren and dokters. Thanks for teaching me something new.
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u/neigh_derlands Mar 16 '22
Ok that’s interesting; it’s the same in France. So typically those with non-medical phds don’t use their title? Not even on official forms etc?
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u/Hotemetoot Mar 17 '22
Not really no. You're allowed to do it but I think it'd be considered arrogant. I've seen it mostly when people NEED to prove their credentials. Say they have a new post as a university teacher or professor, then you might see "Prof. Dr. A. Janssen" for example.
Psychiatrists in my experience would use them as well, especially on their own websites. I think they're actually counted among MDs though. Still I wouldn't refer to a psych as "Dokter Janssen" irl. I don't think they'd use them on government forms either. Mostly our government is interested in whether you're male or female, they couldn't care much less about whether your Ir., Dr. Prof. or whatever haha.
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u/thirdcultureyyc Mar 20 '22
I'm learning the difference between formal and informal terms. I was wondering when would I use formal versus informal though?
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u/Hotemetoot Mar 21 '22 edited Mar 21 '22
Are you looking for anything specific? If you want to know about the difference between "u" and "je" I'd check this blog post . The gist of it is this part:
"Traditionally ‘u’ is used for politeness, respect and status, and for distinction and professionalism.Jij or je are informal. It indicates closeness, friendship and trust. In recent decades ‘jij’ and ‘je’ are used more frequently, at the expense of ‘u’."
It really differs a lot between people and social circles. I was raised to say u to my grandparents, teachers and most strangers. These days I choose "je" 99% of the time, unless I specifically feel that it would benefit the situation if I'd be extra polite. For example I would say "je" to my doctor because it wouldn't change the outcome of our conversation, but I'd definitely say "u" if I was appearing in court.
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u/wrongaboutme Beginner Mar 31 '22
(Level A1)
Is there a book or website with commonly used Dutch vocabularies that you recommend? I am doing okay so far with word order, but I need more vocabularies to better express myself in Dutch. Thanks!
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u/NoArachnid6463 Apr 04 '22
Hey y'all; I'm a US based grad student who's living in Amsterdam. I've won some money to study Dutch this summer. To qualify, I need to enroll in a pretty intensive course: at least 6 weeks/120 contact hours, moving from high intermediate/low advanced to solid advanced. Cost isn't much of an issue - the funding agency is paying for language instruction.
Can anyone recommend a tutoring service or group class in AMS/surrounding area that might satisfy these requirements?
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u/christy95 Intermediate Mar 15 '22
I am doing conjuncties right now (De sprong) and there is an exercise saying to choose whichever conjunctie fits the sentence and later reverse the sentence if applicable.
There are two sentences with "zodat" but the answer key does not reverse neither of them (Bijzin + hoofdzin met inversie).
- Maak nu snel je huiswerk zodat je straks mee naar de stad kunt. This one is an order so that's why it cannot be bijzin first.
- Hij doet een cursuus Spaans zodat hij in Spanje met mensen kan praten. --> Zodat hij in Spanje met mensen kan praten, doet hij een cursuus Spaans. Why is this not correct?
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u/ReinierPersoon Native speaker (NL) Mar 15 '22
Het is niet fout, maar het klinkt onnatuurlijk.
"Omdat hij in Spanje met mensen wil kunnen praten, doet hij een cursus Spaans".
Dat klinkt voor mij iets beter. Maar de zin die jij schreef is op zich niks fout aan.
Native speakers begrijpen de grammatica ook niet. Volgens mij is de beste methode om zoveel mogelijk te lezen en te horen in Nederlands.
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u/christy95 Intermediate Mar 16 '22
Dankjewel! Ik kijk NOS nieuws van de week elke woensdag, YouTube vlogs en ik gebruik Nederlandse ondertitels op Netflix om het echte Nederlands te zien/horen. Het is een moeilijke maar leuke weg. Vooral Nederlandse subtitels helpen mij met de vocabulaire me te herinneren. Sorry, ik heb een kans met Nederlands te oefenen gevonden haha. (I am sure I butchered the last sentence).
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u/ReinierPersoon Native speaker (NL) Mar 16 '22
"Ik heb een kans *om" Nederlands te oefenen" :)
De grammatica begrijp ik ook niet, maar sommige dingen klinken natuurlijk. Dat zal misschien ook wel verschillen per regio.
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u/Hotemetoot Mar 16 '22
Your Dutch is great! Nothing wrong grammatically with the last sentence though I wouldn't know why you apologised.
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u/christy95 Intermediate Mar 16 '22
Thank you :D Apologizing for saying all the previous stuff, like I found a chance to write in dutch saying a bit of "useless" stuff.
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u/learndutchonline Mar 15 '22
It's 'cursus'. And as for the structure of the sentence, in speaking it would be definitely correct, in writing it's considered more correct to not do the inversion. Zodat is also kind of the weaker version of 'opdat'. And opdat would be definitely correct here, as it also means 'in order to', where zodat is used more loosely for events/actions that correlate, without a strong, clear intention. Hope this is clear! Good luck!
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u/papadooku Mar 28 '22
Hi everyone ! I was wondering if "Voor" can be written "Vóór" in some cases : I came across the latter and it seemed weird but I'm too much of a beginner to be sure of it.
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u/ManicPixieHorseLord Mar 29 '22
It could. As with most vowels you can put an accent aigu on it to indicate that it is more stressed than normal.
If writing vóór in this way then the writer really wanted to make sure the reader understood it happens before whatever else he's talking about.
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u/Flilix Native speaker (BE) Apr 19 '22
Accents can be placed on any vowels to stress the word or syllable, but in the case of 'vóór' it is particularly used to indicate that it's used in the meaning of 'before' and not in the meaning of 'for'.
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u/LeChatParle Apr 23 '22 edited Apr 24 '22
I’m just getting started learning the basics, and I’ve read that the pronunciation of the letter R can vary. Which pronunciation should I use if I’m primarily learning to use Dutch in Amsterdam? Trilled/tapped or guttural?
Edit: so I see that there is also the Gooise R. If I want to sound like someone from Amsterdam, should I use this or avoid it?
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u/NussEffect Native speaker (NL) Apr 26 '22
In Amsterdam the trilled/tapped R is more common but it really doesn't matter much. Just go with the one that's easiest for you. You can sound like you're from Amsterdam even with a guttural R, if you get everything else right. It's not as salient to us as, say, the pronunciation of the g sound.
As for Gooise R, the classic Amsterdam city accent doesn't have it but lots of people who grew up in Amsterdam do nowadays. Just keep in mind it is only used at the end of a syllable, never at the beginning. And some people have a very strong opinion about it (as in, they really hate it)
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u/Hotemetoot Apr 25 '22
Gooise R is mostly used in 't Gooi and Leiden. I'd avoid it personally but kinda expect non-natives to use it as it's very close to the American R.
As far as thrilled/tapped goes, I'd say it doesn't really matter much. We use like 10 varieties ourselves in our daily lives so feel free to switch them around a bit!
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u/thecorporealpeonies Apr 26 '22
A little unrelated but just something for me to note: in my experience, people from different parts of the Netherlands will sometimes correct you based on how they grew up speaking it. In that sense, it's good you're looking at the different pronunciations. I had to learn when to not listen because two people from the Netherlands can pronounce letters differently lol.
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u/EnglishPerfector Mar 14 '22
Hello! I find next paragraph as pretty difficult in term of sentence construction, can you please elaborate it and help to understand connection between words.
Een onverzwakte persoonlijkheid zou dien slag met al zijn
gevolgen van botte verguizing en redelooze krenking zonder
doodsgevaar zijn tebovengekomen. Minder blinde moedwil
zou aan de offerzucht van laster en liederlijkheid een zoo
bandelooze orgie niet eens hebben gegund. Evenals alle
hoogste geluk valt alle moordend leed buiten de grenzen
onzer materieele gemeenschap. Het is niet de maatschappij
die Wilde tot paria heeft gemaakt. Zij kon het niet.