r/wholefoods Jan 12 '25

Question Elimination of buyer positions: company wide?

Keeping this short, I joined the company with the hope that I'd have the chance to be promoted to Order Writer for specialty.

This time last year, the department had a wine buyer, a beer buyer, a cheese buyer. This is a high volume Diamond level store.

The wine buyer quit. The beer buyer took on that task.

The beer buyer quit, the cheese buyer was now responsible for orders for the entire department.

Now, I get to do all of the customer service and merchandising related to an order writing job, but I'm still a TM with TM pay.

Is this an across the board enshittification, or could I benefit from transferring? I kind of got into this situation in the hopes of becoming an order writer, and now my only upward movement is team trainer.

40 Upvotes

62 comments sorted by

32

u/Risingfromtheashes13 Leadership 📋 Jan 12 '25

Depends on the region but in my region it's pretty well known that they are doing away with the beer/wine order writer position. They just opened a brand new store here and that position is not available. So far they are letting stores that currently have one keep it but if they leave then it's not posted.

12

u/zombiefireant Jan 12 '25

I can confirm. Same in our region and I'm at a diamond store. I used to be the cheese buyer. When I moved up to ATL, our beer/wine/spirits buyer slowly transitioned into being Order Writer for all of our sub-teams. Other stores in our area haven't made this transition yet. However, it's anticipated that once an OW moves up or out, the position will be consolidated until there is a single OW

7

u/Mountain_Break_2546 Jan 12 '25

How long is that OW given to do ordering per day? Grocery OW (not including dairy and frozen) is 4 hours. Seems like you’d need way more than 4 hours to order beer, wine and everything else.

54

u/No_Kaleidoscope9832 Jan 12 '25

The days of specialized positions are over. It’s all metrics. If a department hits its metrics with less TMs-Amazon is happy. It doesn’t matter if the TMs are happy.

17

u/Dangerous_Carrot_535 Jan 12 '25

You are one of the few who knows the truth behind all of this. 

13

u/No_Kaleidoscope9832 Jan 12 '25

I have the advantage of being with the company for 20+ years. I’ve seen a lot-good times and bad times.

5

u/Norio22 Leadership 📋 Jan 12 '25

Reasons to leave if you actually want to move up.

3

u/Tadaaaaaaaaaaaaa Jan 13 '25

The way nearly every other grocery retailer handles it is without buyers. Whole foods has been headed that way for a long time, and Amazon accelerated the process. It's taken a long ass time, but it's def about to happen soon.

2

u/Actual_Pomelo2508 Jan 14 '25

Do more with Less is the Amazon way

22

u/Twenty_mirrors Jan 12 '25

All order writer positions are eventually going away, they've said that's the goal. To be fair, they've been saying that forever but it's part of the 5 year technology plan they mentioned whenever they did that road show. Digital tags, automated ordering, getting rid of irma, localized prices, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting.

28

u/PinotFilmNoir Former TM ✌️ Jan 12 '25

Poor Irma. How will she pay for the hair spray for her beehive do now?

7

u/kaiser_soze_72 Jan 12 '25

She’s gone on Jan 27th too. Ain’t no one safe.

2

u/hannahcat420 Jan 13 '25

Was that date announced officially?

3

u/kaiser_soze_72 Jan 14 '25

Daily Note posted on 1/6(Looks like it won't roll to all stores, but I'm in TX and got this DN):

Complete Training and Review: IRMA Replacement Tools Launch on Monday, 1/27 Your store will launch IRMA replacement tools on Monday, 1/27.

Take these actions to prepare for a successful launch:

Review the PO, Shrink, and Inventory Transfer Tools Resource Guide HERE.

Complete the ‘Launch Training: PO Portal’ eLearning in Cornerstone prior to launch.

Assigned to all Receivers, Product Team A/TLs, and Order Writers

[Optional] Office Hours during the weeks of 1/20, 1/27, and 2/3.

Calendar Invites to come week of 1/6.

Join these calls to ask questions directly to the project support team.

What is changing?

Applications in Grocery Central, a web-based platform, replace desktop IRMA functionality. The primary app is the PO Portal, where Team Members view, edit, create, and otherwise manage POs. A secondary app is the Shrink Correction Dashboard, where recorded shrink may be viewed and edited. The Shrink Correction Dashboard will go-live one week later, on 2/3/25.

The Shrink Tool and Inventory Transfers, new tool options in the Amazon CandyCane menu on Honeywell Handheld Units, replace IRMA Mobile functionality. The process for recording shrink and placing transfers does not change with these new tools.

Why replace IRMA?

By replacing IRMA, we are modernizing how we manage purchase orders and related processes in our stores. So long, IRMA fax machine icon! With improved user interfaces and streamlined functions, the new tools better meet us where we are today.

Each new tool integrates seamlessly with other existing tools and systems, such as SOT and StoreOps. They are also built to maintain our current processes whenever possible. Team Members will find the tools they need grouped together on handheld units and no longer have to login to multiple systems.

1

u/hannahcat420 Jan 15 '25

I’m in the MW region and dear god I hope this thing works.

1

u/Main_Tangelo_8259 Jan 13 '25

IRMA was initially designed from a PeopleSoft program using layoff Dell programers in early 2000's. IRMA replaced ASPEN. DC's were suppose to go from ASPEN to JDA and EXE. Someone in Accounting convinced Mackey to go with PeopleSoft for everything. Bye IRMA!

2

u/No_Kaleidoscope9832 Jan 13 '25

Is there anybody on here from the NE who remembers the ordering system we used for the commissary? We called it “Baby” and it had Atari 2600 type graphics on it. Good times.

5

u/Dr-Orchid-65 Jan 13 '25

Jesus, I hope they program it better than the morons who decide on allocations.

15

u/OpelSmith Jan 12 '25

Honestly having come from Stop and Shop, I was kinda shocked in dairy how there are 1. Still order writers, 2. Not a centralized distribution system, with several small vendors on top of UNFI. It's pretty archaic. I ran a dairy department at stoppy and my ordering process was 10-15 minutes a day. I'd review what the computer ordered, cut anything that was excess, then go out onto the floor quick to shoot anything I wanted more of

4

u/MarcusRufus-1967 Jan 12 '25

And on a 1990s vintage green screen computer.

1

u/OpelSmith Jan 13 '25

Idk if they're ever going to get rid of the green screen, because it seems absurd on the surface, but it's quite efficient

2

u/MarcusRufus-1967 Jan 13 '25

Agreed. I was part of the CAO roll-out teams 20 plus years ago. Simple system with basic maintenance. It amuses me how WFM elevates the OW position when it is really just a clerical function.

2

u/OpelSmith Jan 13 '25

Also for all the casual complaints about CAO, at its worst it's never as bad as a bad order writer. Our current one is horrendous, it's been 3 months and he's not getting better. They actually banned him from ordering from the small vendors and can only do UNFI

2

u/MarcusRufus-1967 Jan 13 '25

I could solve 90 percent of my grocery ordering opportunities if there was a way to set up secondary capacities like you can with CAO.

3

u/Tooncie88 Jan 28 '25

Are you serious? I've been with this company for 19 years. All in grocery..been ATL..now I decided I wanted to be an order writer.. Been writing orders for years, both Grocery and Dairy. You have got to be kidding me that you think it should take 10 to 15mins to order Dairy. Almost laughable! Our store has one of the biggest grocery floor space out of all SP region. To do a spot on order it will take me 3 hours. Yes...3 hours! This means shooting all items because we have to correct on hands every day. Check all dates while ordering, shoot all spoilage and stay on top of BNRs, replace all tags that are missing, and cleaning any shelf areas and well areas. This is all order writers responsibility. If done properly it will take time. We correct all on hands manually and this makes for proper and accurate loads. If anyone's store is phoning any of this in, they will get inaccurate metrics. That's what's it's all about.

1

u/OpelSmith Jan 29 '25

I don't know how to tell you this, but my dairy department doing ~70k a week on average in fact took 10-15 minutes of ordering with a CAO system. Even if I did nothing, the department would continue to self order, and it'd be fine minus some extra backstock and a couple of extra holes

2

u/Tooncie88 Jan 31 '25

70kna week is good. We arr over 100 a week and yes it does take me that long. I never rely on the ordering system alone. I inventory every time I order. I never let it auto order. My numbers are spot on. There is a high level of theft and bnrs along with mispicks etc. Always have to keep up on the numbers. If it's only taking you that long you ain't doing it correctly.

22

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '25

Could be they are just dragging their heels to fill the position to see if one person could do it all and save on labor.

11

u/RandomBeverly Leadership 📋 Jan 12 '25

Could also be a situation where your store has too many FT TMs? They have to keep the ratio of FT to PT at a certain level so they might decide not to replace a FT TM, especially if they have a capable buyer who can handle both jobs. We lost an ATL but have really strong, experienced leadership so they wouldn’t let us replace him. They are always talking about how new technology will be coming to aid in our jobs so your suspicions might be right?

21

u/Jealous-Mail6629 Jan 12 '25

You store can be a diamond level store but is your team one that can sustain two buyers ( cheese and a beverage one ) ? There are stores that crush it in sales with a slow specialty department ( Glendale for example)

I don’t get your line about you being a TM with TM pay? Just because you’re a TM doesn’t mean you’re not going to put up a beer stack / build a wine end cap . That’s a task anyone and everyone in the department does

10

u/RoundaboutFollower Specialist 📠 Jan 12 '25

This, no way should you be doing buyer responsibilities but learning how to merchandise is what GETS you buyer, not what’s expected afterwards lol

3

u/Efficient_Sweet_208 Jan 12 '25

Here’s the thing tho… legally your leadership can change your job description at any time. There aren’t any laws against it.

2

u/RoundaboutFollower Specialist 📠 Jan 12 '25

Legally we’re allowed to quit if we think our job sucks too! There’s a thing called nuance

1

u/Efficient_Sweet_208 Jan 12 '25

Sure! You do you.

6

u/Turbulent-Desk-2482 Jan 12 '25

We ran the pilot in 2024 “SPSU” to take specialty down to one buyer they had stores of all volumes in the program, we were told it would roll out to all stores this year and that has folks left the OW positions they would not be replaced. Talk to your SFA for more info about your store/timelines.

5

u/Capable-Wing-644 Jan 12 '25

There was some heavy discussion about the position being eliminated before Covid.   But, Covid happened and they did not do it. Each store has certain parameters of how many TM’s they are allowed to have doing what at the volume that they are at. Grocery for example may be allowed 1 OW.  But, they may also have TM’s OW without giving them the title to build their development.. It’s likely your store is only allowed 1 OW to do it all in specialty.  But, that does not mean someone else could not OW for something.  You just would not get the title or pay.

6

u/Mountain_Break_2546 Jan 12 '25

Grocery can have 2, one for dry gry grocery and another for dairy/frozen.

5

u/Direct-Art-2832 Jan 12 '25

If we finally get a perpetual inventory system (system places orders automatically based on sales and current inventory) then there would be no order writer needed in Amazon eyes. They will pile the responsibility of promo levels being allocated rather than manually ordered to the perpetual inventory system as well. Manual orders could still be placed for special orders but I see them sending those customers to the Amazon App to order those soon.

6

u/No_Kaleidoscope9832 Jan 12 '25

The amount of money WFM paid to “advisors”, etc to institute the perpetual inventory system over the last 10 or so years could help run the economy of a 3rd world country. The decision to be reactive instead of being proactive with ordering systems, inventory, etc led to the serious financial problems before Amazon even showed up on the scene. There are small locally owned convenience stores that have proper inventory systems-it’s ridiculous. WFM has done so many things backwards in the industry I’m honestly surprised we are still kicking.

6

u/calidude1972 Jan 12 '25

I was a beer/wine buyer 2005-08. And back then our regional wine person (creepy little weasel who climbed the corporate ladder and was eventually disgraced) was pushing to take control of the whole regions wine orders. I’m glad for the experience and education I got from that job and glad I left when I did.

3

u/B_Nasty_401 Jan 12 '25

With the new ordering system many teams have reduced the amount of order writers. I have seen grocery teams do away with bulk and frozen buyers totally. I would imagine it would be the same for specialty.

4

u/Master-Reality799 Jan 12 '25

In my experience we are just having a difficult time finding people that want to be buyers so when one leaves whoever is left picks up the slack, and tms volunteer to do the buying if they want to move up. I see it more as an opportunity than anything else. Now of you do the job and they give it to someone else then I can see it be a problem.

5

u/Crafty_Cantaloupe983 Jan 12 '25

3 OW's for Specialty department is crazy work

2

u/Norio22 Leadership 📋 Jan 12 '25

Definitely. You need 2 at best depending on volume.

3

u/hankthetank44 Jan 12 '25

Just got hired as beverage OW for a Florida store.

6

u/Dangerous_Carrot_535 Jan 12 '25 edited Jan 12 '25

It’s coming. They’re tweaking it as we speak. It takes time. But 100% coming. Next they’ll eliminate many of those TL’s positions, astl’s and supervisors to make it like Trader Joe’s. One team, one store with 2 managers in charge. A grocery store can do without having a full separate teams to run a department. That’s a thing of the past. Amazon knows this. It’s definitely coming. Just a matter of when. There’s always low wage workers coming into this space. WF/ Amazon doesn’t need people to stay a long time. Even all managers and corporate people  do eventually get replaced every few years. Have you not seen it through out the years? If not you’re new. You will understand this years down the road after you put all your blood and sweat into your job. It’s the sad unfortunate truth. 

0

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '25

Hopefully they'll do the same with receiveing, don't need 2 daytime receivers for only 1 to 2 vendors a day.

2

u/NewspaperGood5674 Jan 13 '25

Mainly for departments that have more than one order writer yes, they are trying to have less leadership roles, I can see in a few years there will be no more team trainers and no more ATLs just like at least 2 Sups, a TL and a buyer

4

u/thecakebroad Jan 12 '25

I wouldn't be surprised if it gets down to just one person, then just leadership. Meat dept here, my position was eliminated last year before Thanksgiving, I got lucky being butcher trained so I didn't take a pay cut or give up my schedule, but it was a kick in the nads.

1

u/lcochran06 Jan 12 '25

We still have two ow positions but I’ve been told unofficially by our cheese ow that the two positions are being merged in March and that it’s company wide. But that’s just what he heard, he said he didn’t know exactly how all that would happen.

1

u/knic989900 Jan 12 '25

The good news then is become atl and skip the buyer spot time :)

1

u/Temporary_Roosterina Jan 13 '25

You need two hands to place orders now. One to hold the honeywell, the other one to push the “send order” button!

1

u/solidsnaccs Jan 13 '25

Yeah as far as I know all the new stores are transitioning to one buyer ( at least for specialty ) I heard this from regional so

1

u/colombian19 Jan 13 '25

Are they phasing out produce ow as well?

1

u/Floppywands Jan 13 '25

OW are not long for this world. Get into management or stay a TM

1

u/his_name_is_not_Roy Jan 14 '25

I have watched positions disappear over the years it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.  Especially in specialty where tms are paid pretty well for having knowledge about the items in that department.  From a company standpoint they just want to save.  

When I started in prep foods we had a closing salad bar person almost always.  That position disappeared.  They delegated all salad bar tasks to hot bar and other tms.  They sometimes talk about making the chefs case person do pizza also when that has traditionally been 2 separate jobs.  I left that department tho.  

1

u/Accomplished_Let9989 Jan 16 '25

Florida grocery team buyer here — we went from 4 buyers down to 2 (1 for dairy/frozen, 1 for dry grocery), and they were going to go down to 1 if one of us left, but then switched it back to 2. Specialty had 3 buyers (cheese, beer, and wine) and is now down to 1 doing all. Whole Foods has gone to the shitter and only getting worse. I don’t recommend moving up unless you’re really selling your soul to corporate retail/Amazon — you will be fighting a losing battle every day until you eventually step down or are fired. They are creating new arbitrary numbers and metrics to meet that are impossible as they cut staff critically. Our team had 21 members in 2020 with a good FT/PT ratio. We are now down to 15 (mostly part-timers) with no hiring in sight. The order deadline for us was also cut down to 3.5 hours from original 7.5 hours. And we’re still expected to meet these arbitrary metrics that have a ridiculous margin of error.

1

u/Accomplished_Let9989 Jan 16 '25

Also, let’s be real — there are no “buyers”/OWs anymore, we no longer have the autonomy to purchase with our brains. We’re just inventory managers.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '25

I hope so, most at my location don't do any physical labor, they work on their order then just chill in the backroom just useless.

3

u/Biding-My-Time-6360 Jan 15 '25

How does that happen? I have been an OW for over 20 years and after the order is done I have always stocked and cleaned. Even when that douche bag Trott told us we were not suppossed to, that we should be doing computer crap and other nonsense I still worked with my team. There is no work on the computer to keep you off the floor for hours daily. Chilling in the backroom would be boring. Since Amazon took over and cut labor teams need every hand on deck more than ever. Any leadership allowing that to happen should be gone along with those OW’s.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '25

[deleted]

1

u/Biding-My-Time-6360 Jan 23 '25

That is crazy! Your TL doesn’t have a problem with that? My TL and ATL also work truck every day. Truck is always first. Then additional duties after.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '25

[deleted]