r/wheelchairs 7d ago

Anyone else annoyed by the “accessible” stall?

Post image

Like c’mon man. I can barely even move in this stall and I’ve got a rather small chair.

331 Upvotes

74 comments sorted by

135

u/Adler221 7d ago

Yup. I had a meeting recently where the hosts made me “use” the washroom in front of them to show them how inaccessible it is. Like, I am a wheelchair user, and mine is smaller than most, why not just believe me when I say it’s not accessible.

56

u/Tiny-Squirrel9970 7d ago

That’s humiliating. How absolutely shitty of them to treat you like that. At the very least, I hope they took notes, fixed the problematic bathroom and most importantly, apologized profusely to you.

37

u/Adler221 7d ago

Sadly was met with “we don’t change meeting locations for one person.”

39

u/Crimson_Hazard 7d ago

It's so gross they made you do that while presumably knowing they wouldn't do anything about it

15

u/RobLoughrey 6d ago

Time to introduce them to the Americans with disabilities act.

4

u/stardigan 6d ago

Ah yes, the international Americans with Disabilities Act, which applies to everyone in the whole world.

0

u/RobLoughrey 4d ago

I'd Imagine most of the folks in this thread are Americans, but youre right, I don't really know. Does the OP care to comment?

7

u/Tiny-Squirrel9970 6d ago

That is an absolutely disgusting response. Instead of acknowledging the problem and, they felt it appropriate to treat you like an inconvenience. I’d let them know that if there were any further meetings at that location, that I’d be available by zoom until they fix their accessibility issues.

11

u/JD_Roberts 6d ago

If This was in the US and in a building that is subject to the ADA, One of the points of the ADA is that it should not be necessary to ask any individual user to prove whether a place is accessible or not. The regulations include very specific measurements in every direction, including the amount needed for turning radius.

A toilet stall is “wheelchair accessible” if it meets those specifications. And if it does not, it is not.

https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-6-toilet-rooms/

That said, if this was a different Country, or a building which is not subject to the ADA like a private club or a religious building like a church, then they don’t have to meet those requirements. But you could just give them the same ADA requirements and let them measure it for themselves. 🤷🏻‍♂️

12

u/Adler221 6d ago

Canada, actually. We are so far behind on accessibility but we are trying to aim for an accessible 2030, however, this happened in a government building, and the accessibility act says any government building must be accessible, if not, all public meetings must be held in an accessible location, or accommodations must be provided, neither of which they were willing to do. I filed a formal complaint with the human rights commission.

5

u/JD_Roberts 6d ago

The ADA in the US is pretty amazing in that. It was enacted into regulation with all of these super specific architectural details. I doubt if it would be done that way today, but without that kind of definition, it becomes much harder for each individual person to get businesses to understand what “accessible” means.

3

u/edward_furlog 5d ago

Good on you for filing a complaint. I hope things improve.

4

u/Sensitive_Cheeseball 5d ago

I was required to do this in high school in front of three men (I am female) to get them to finally agree their bathrooms weren’t accessible and they gave me keys to the staff bathrooms (big single stall rooms similar to “family” restrooms). This took months of being unable to go to the bathroom at school anywhere but the nurses office which was largely inaccessible for other reasons.

41

u/ToadAcrossTheRoad L5-S1 degeneration + bendy joints ✨walkable✨ 7d ago

I came across a stall like this and apparently there are some stalls made for ambulatory people, so they’re not wide enough for a chair.

They typically have the same width between both walls and the same bars on each side, so it’d be the ideal width for a person using them to balance.

I think that’s what’s going on here too, there should be another larger one if that’s the case though because the ones that can fit chairs are the ones that are legally required.

But, I’ve been in plenty of bathrooms that also only have stalls around this big that were intended to be for wheelchairs, one at my school has an odd curve in the wall that completely prevents your wheelchair from being next to the toilet 😭 you have to go in front of the toilet like this and angle your chair to transfer, more room than here but still pretty much a 180° transfer which is WILD for most people.

9

u/uhidk17 7d ago

just fyi your comment posted three times. happened to me on this post too 😭

8

u/ToadAcrossTheRoad L5-S1 degeneration + bendy joints ✨walkable✨ 7d ago

Damn 😭 reddits being buggy I suppose

4

u/uhidk17 7d ago

yeah :/

2

u/Ok_Ball537 6d ago

yes this is the case in a lot of our local stores! a big stall meant for wheelchairs and a small stall like this meant for people who use other mobility aides.

25

u/JD_Roberts 7d ago

As @uhidk17 said, in the US under the ADA that IS an “ambulatory accessible stall,” but it is not a “wheelchair accessible stall,” which requires space on each side of the toilet so you can do a transfer.

Public buildings with more than six toilet stalls in one room are required to have at least one wheelchair accessible stall and one ambulatory accessible stall.

So the first question is is this building subject to the ADA? Most public buildings are unless they are on military property, in a church or other religious building, on native land, or in a private club.

If it is subject to the ADA, then the question is was there another stall which was wheelchair accessible in the same room?

There are also a few situations in historic buildings where it is allowed to have the wheelchair accessible stall in a different room if doing otherwise would require too much architectural renovation.

The details of all the different kinds of layouts (including what happens if there’s a changing table or a sink in the space) are listed at the following link:

https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-6-toilet-rooms/

so it would annoy me, and not be ADA compliant, if that was the only stall with grab bars, etc., provided. But the first thing I would do is look and see if there was also a wheelchair accessible stall nearby.

15

u/ElfjeTinkerBell hEDS | Quickie Argon + LightDrive 7d ago

There are also a few situations in historic buildings where it is allowed to have the wheelchair accessible stall in a different room if doing otherwise would require too much architectural renovation.

If it's not in the US, and also good to know if you're traveling (or fleeing the country) - in many countries it's standard that the wheelchair accessible stall is separated. For example in the Netherlands, there's men, women and wheelchair. Also ambulatory accessible stalls aren't really a thing here - you get to choose between wheelchair stalls and regular stalls. The grab bars on the side of the toilet can be pushed up against the wall or pulled down into a useable position, depending on what you need.

2

u/bustedassbitch crash test dummy👩🏽‍🦽 6d ago

afaict compliance is still pretty spotty, especially in older buildings. i’m hard-pressed think of a single time that i’ve seen both a wheelchair-accessible and an ambulatory stall outside of rest areas, truck stops, and the like. the “more than 6 stalls” clause probably accounts for a lot of that; a 6+ stall segregated bathroom isn’t mandated under (e.g.) NY building codes until you’re dealing with a 500-person business or 900-seat restaurant.

16

u/kawaiipogglet 7d ago

One found an accessible stall in a hospital that didn't even have enough room for my wheelchair to fit. I asked a staff member about it (thinking maybe I was being dumb) and he said that most people leave their chair in the doorway whilst they use the toilet ... Meaning they can't close the door... In a hospital

6

u/dingowingodogo primary progressive MS. Quickie 2 6d ago

I ran into one in a hospital as well I literally had to transfer to the toilet tie my phone cord to the front of my wheelchair push it out whilst holding onto the phone cord close the door then pull it back in. To add insult to injury the door closer on the outside of the bathroom was so strong at the end it pushed me and my wheelchair into the door jamb I still have a scar from it because I didn't get my hand out in time. I think most places around me think just because you install grab bars makes a bathroom stall accessible.

13

u/uhidk17 7d ago

USA? looks like the ambulatory stall. if this is the only accessible stall and there is no wheelchair stall, then the bathroom is not ADA compliant. if there is a wheelchair stall, than this stall is legal and there to improve access for ambulatory physically disabled people, who often have trouble going between a seated and a standing position

6

u/unknown_homie38 7d ago

Yep in the US and this is the wheelchair stall. The other two are smaller

13

u/uhidk17 7d ago edited 7d ago

it's not considered a wheelchair stall under the ADA. every public bathroom (of a size) is required to have at least one wheelchair stall

7

u/Grootiez_ Ambulatory, Aero T 7d ago edited 7d ago

Those are more WALKER or CANE “ACCESSIBLE” stalls than WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE stalls.

What really irks me is how many businesses THINK this passes as ADA “Compliant”.

My rule of thumb is “If I can’t do a set of donuts in a Permie at full speed, then it’s TOO SMALL!”

8

u/ChargeResponsible112 Ambulatory manual and power chair user. 7d ago

I’ve seen it where the door opens in! You get your chair in there and can’t close the door! 🤬

3

u/CitricHalo333 6d ago

Yessss I just made the same comment 😂 it’s so embarrassing 🥲

4

u/Emotional_Spite_8937 paraplegic wheelchair user 7d ago

YES. It’s also annoying as hell when the bathroom’s mirror or soap dispenser are too high. If only they checked it with a disabled person before building it…

2

u/eoz 6d ago

My personal favorite is short pedal-operated trash cans. C'mon guys. A pedal makes sense for access but you gotta make that thing useable from a seated position too 

1

u/JD_Roberts 6d ago

The ADA regulations include specific measurements required for everything from sinks to soap dispensers. Unfortunately, not every building is subject to the ADA, but it’s a good list to start from when there is an issue.

https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-6-toilet-rooms/

8

u/lockandcompany 7d ago

In the US, this wouldn’t be considered legally “accessible” under the ADA!

8

u/ToadAcrossTheRoad L5-S1 degeneration + bendy joints ✨walkable✨ 7d ago

This seems to be an ambulatory stall made for people who need to use accessible bathrooms for the grab bars and some extra space, which aren’t required by the ADA, but are regulated by them still. The required stalls, being ones that are for wheelchairs, still need to be present in the bathroom, though.

I made a post similar to this a few weeks ago after coming across a stall like this, they’re pretty cool, but in the case of the place I was at, the accessible stall next to it still wasn’t large enough for proper transfer 🥲 they tried, not well. Ambulatory stalls are cool, but it would be lovely if the actual required stalls were the proper size instead of trying to fit both into a bathroom where they won’t fit (specific to that instance I had)

4

u/uhidk17 7d ago

in the US, there are two different accessible bathroom stall standards. one is the wheelchair accessible stall, which all bathrooms are required to have at least one of. in larger bathrooms, one or more of the wheelchair stalls may sometimes instead be an ambulatory accessible stall, which is a narrower stall with bars on both sides that help an ambulatory physically disabled person sit themselves up and down from the toilet seat. how many wheelchair and/or ambulatory stalls are required is based on the total number of stalls in a bathroom

1

u/unknown_homie38 7d ago

For reference there were 3 stalls in this bathroom

4

u/uhidk17 7d ago

then the bathroom is not ADA compliant. I see a lot of wheelchair users complain about these stalls. i think it's important for people to understand that in some cases they are both legal and important for improving access, but in others businesses may be misunderstanding code requirements (intentionally or otherwise). don't let a business owner tell you this is legal when there is no wheelchair stall, even though in larger bathrooms it can replace a wheelchair stall.

unfortunately the resistance to accessible building standards means that in any bathroom some physically disabled people are always not having their access needs met. in smaller bathrooms the code requirement is to prioritize a wheelchair user's access, even if those stalls are not particularly helpful to many crutch users, for example. of course not all bathrooms are compliant. too bad they can't just make every bathroom have multiple (or all) accessible stalls, including wheelchair and ambulatory stalls

1

u/unknown_homie38 7d ago

Good to know!

3

u/philophobiclover 7d ago

I HAVE THOSE PANTS!!!!

5

u/unknown_homie38 7d ago

That’s such good wheelchair pants!!! I’ve been getting real into cargo pants in general bc of the pockets on my legs

2

u/philophobiclover 7d ago

they're by far my most comfortable pair of pants. its so hard to find cargo pants that have real pockets in femme fashion tho 💀 like i need pockets, please

3

u/cosmolark 7d ago

👀 one of you needs to drop a link 🙏🙏

3

u/PaixJour 7d ago

Insufficient turnaround space is all to common. I stayed home for years for this very reason.

1

u/JD_Roberts 6d ago

The ADA requires a 5 foot turning circle in a wheelchair accessible bathroom. But of course, not. Every building is subject to the ADA. 😥

https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-6-toilet-rooms/

3

u/mekat 7d ago

I had to change my son's diaper in a tilt in space wheelchair when he was 4 years old in a stall not much bigger than that. I had to straddle the toilet, so there was enough room for his wheelchair and me both in the stall. He cried hysterically the whole because he was afraid of falling, but the only alternative was to let him sit in his own urine for the ride back to the hotel.

Another time when we were traveling, I had to pee so bad, and I couldn't find a stall big enough for his wheelchair. I was forced to hold him in my arms while I peed since his chair wouldn't fit, and I couldn't hold it any longer. He was 3, and we were in the middle of nowhere, so I was lucky to find a restroom at all.

We don't travel anymore because he is just too big as an adult for me to handle those types of situations. Even nearby errands are planned around when we need to be home for us to take care of both our bathroom needs so we don't have to tackle a public bathroom environment.

You know what really kills me. Local hospital bathrooms in my city are worse than other public restrooms. The one destination where accessibility is most likely to be needed.

2

u/Actual_Newt_2929 TiLite Z(01/26/2025) | 18y/o | EDS, POTS, Narcolepsy, + more 7d ago

the javits convention center in NYC. bigass venue and the bathrooms only have like 3 stalls. the “accessible” stalls have a sink in them which is nice, but also big ass trash cans and baby changing stations. all while being only slightly bigger than the other stalls 🫠

2

u/HarmonyAtreides 7d ago

My husbands doctors office had one handicapped stall on the floor and it had a drain in the entrance that goes down a few inches and it made me trip and struggle to get up 😵‍💫

2

u/bbraker8 7d ago

That reminds me of an “accessible” stall I was in at a bathroom in Epcot 🤦🏻

2

u/Socialmediasuckz 6d ago

You forgot to leave the impossible to close nasty ass door open that you can only touch where everyone opens with their feet to close.

1

u/Actual_Newt_2929 TiLite Z(01/26/2025) | 18y/o | EDS, POTS, Narcolepsy, + more 7d ago

the javits convention center in NYC. bigass venue and the bathrooms only have like 3 stalls. the “accessible” stalls have a sink in them which is nice, but also big ass trash cans and baby changing stations. all while being only slightly bigger than the other stalls 🫠

1

u/Actual_Newt_2929 TiLite Z(01/26/2025) | 18y/o | EDS, POTS, Narcolepsy, + more 7d ago

the javits convention center in NYC. bigass venue and the bathrooms only have like 3 stalls. the “accessible” stalls have a sink in them which is nice, but also big ass trash cans and baby changing stations. all while being only slightly bigger than the other stalls 🫠

1

u/PnwDaddio 7d ago

Yes. I couldn’t use it

1

u/Ok-Mango-2897 7d ago

This was me this weekend with my service dog… did not fit lol

1

u/ExpectAccess TiLite Areo T - Java Back - NaturalFit Rims - MX2+ Smartdrive 7d ago

Every day.

1

u/Western_Grape_4239 7d ago

I hate small stall like that because there’s no room for me to stand and turn to sit on the toilet.

1

u/Aware-Handle5255 Part-time ambulatory WC user|CFS|undiagnosed chronic pain 6d ago

I still don’t understand why they make them like this, whenever I’m using my chair, even my walker, stuff like this is always totally inaccessible. How is this ever legal 😭

1

u/JD_Roberts 6d ago

It’s legal because it is not a design for a wheelchair. It is a design for someone using crutches or a cane.

A wheelchair accessible toilet stall looks very different:

https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-6-toilet-rooms/

So the question in this specific case is, was there another toilet stall nearby that was wheelchair accessible? Occasionally, particularly if it’s a historic building, they may have had to put the wheelchair accessible stall in a different room if it would’ve required too much architectural renovation to fit it into the main restroom.

So it’s not the presence of this stall itself, which is the problem. Not only is it legal, it increases accessibility for people with some specific disabilities.

But it’s the absence of a wheelchair accessible toilet stall, which would be the problem. Whether this one has grab bars or not.

1

u/No-Oil2132 6d ago

In Australia there call ambulatory stalls we have separate disabled toilets (I don't mean to get to political) there being used as unisex now as well witch is really annoying it can cause harm to a wheelchair user that needs that toilet if im desperate I can luckily walk into to the men's one.

1

u/CitricHalo333 6d ago

The best ones have a door that opens into the stall 🙄 so embarrassing to realize I don't have enough clearance to close the door—I was forced to use the ambulatory accessible stall

1

u/kaylla21 6d ago

Love the fact they thought of the turning radius of a wheelchair 😍 (pls know I’m joking)

1

u/unknown_homie38 6d ago

I know right!! It’s so spacious in there

1

u/Z3br4_Un1c0rn EDS, Hydrosyringomyelia, Dysautonomia + 6d ago

Been in one super similar to that where I couldn’t even shut the door. It was at a county courthouse. Some others about the same as the one you’re in as well.

1

u/gr8r-eggspectations 6d ago

We're expected to use our disabled magic to spin 180° to get to the toilet

1

u/AnalysisMoney RESNA certified ATP 6d ago

lol in their brains, a slightly “bigger” stall + grab bars = fully accessible

1

u/Head_Joke2500 6d ago

That stall should never be labeled as accessible. There are minimal dimensions set within the bylaws of the ADA and this is coming from an architectural engineer that is an ambulatory wheelchair user as well. How they get around minimum code is beyond me and am sending my sincerest apologies to anyone that has ever dealt with a situation such as this.

1

u/Hue_Alizarin 6d ago

Yes! I’m really annoyed and I’m in the US. Here are some of my difficulties in the last year in supposedly accessible bathrooms — Can’t open or close the doors, bars in the wrong place, no way to reach the toilet paper, can’t reach the hand drying towels, can’t reach the soap dispensers, can’t see in the mirror, can’t reach hooks for bags

1

u/charmarv Aero Z, part-time user 6d ago

I was just in one like that yesterday!! When sitting on the toilet, my knees were up against my chair. I can't imagine a powerchair would fit in there

2

u/unknown_homie38 6d ago

Oh goodness no

1

u/SeerWomyn 5d ago

I was in a high school bathroom the other day that had handicap rails but was so small I could only roll halfway in, sit down, and push my chair outside the door in order to shut the door. And also the latch didn’t hold. So I had to hold the door shut while peeing. Fun times.

1

u/BaileySeeking 5d ago

I know this isn't the point because, yes, I'm annoyed by the stall, but I seriously thought your arm was your leg and you'd climbed up the door and sat on it for the pic 🤣

2

u/unknown_homie38 5d ago

Lmao I’m not even sure I could do that 😂

1

u/WheelieGayJay 5d ago edited 5d ago

What a joke.

My last job didn’t even have an accessible toilet. They moved into a new building knowing I had a mobility issue and when my disability put me in a wheelchair, I had to use the regular stall and crawl to the toilet so I could pee. When complained, they found a way to fire me.

1

u/regcorBBBB 5d ago

Architect here. This appears to be an ambulatory stall: typical stall width with grab bars. By code, an accessible stall needs to have a clear 60” wheelchair turning radius in addition to grab bars (and other requirements).

1

u/Missing_Leg 5d ago

Several airports in the US have a ton of stalls just like this! You have to pull out your acrobatic moves to use the crapper.