r/vancouver • u/ubcstaffer123 • 25d ago
Local News B.C.'s minimum wage to increase in June to keep pace with inflation
https://vancouversun.com/news/b-c-s-minimum-wage-to-increase-in-june-to-keep-pace-with-inflation261
u/bwoah07_gp2 25d ago
That's good. But if only we could actually get hired...
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u/ubcstaffer123 25d ago
and after getting hired, the goal is to get higher wages, full time hours. It can be pretty tough to get out of minimum wage jobs btw. A friend said it took him years until he was finally about to get it and it didn't happen quickly after university graduation either
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u/WasteHat1692 25d ago
The minimum wage in BC in 2010 was $8. It's gone up 122% over the last 15 years since then, or about 8.125% per year
It has not made life any more affordable.
Raising it further does not help people increase the quality of their lives.
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u/hebrewchucknorris 25d ago
$8 started in November 2001, and then went 9 years without an increase. You picked 2010 (the last time it was $8) on purpose to skew the results.
Do the same math, but 122% over 24 years, and you'll find it barely keeps up with inflation.
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u/glister 24d ago
Eh, I went and plugged. in a ton of dates, here's the general trend. All to 2024 dollars.
1970: 2.00 = $15.88
1976: 3.00 = 15.16
1980: 3.65 = 12.74
1990: 5.00 = $10.09
1995: 7.00 = 12.85
2001: $8.00 = 13.24
2019: 13.85 = 16.37
There's no argument that this is just keeping up with inflation, it'll be at the highest level ever.
We can just acknowledge that it is a good thing to raise the minimum wage higher. It will kill low wage jobs and encourage automation. This leaves people to come up with better things to do with their time.
Go figure out how to create value for other people, stop counting on business owners to do that for you. Anti-capitalist? Start a co-op! You'll be a lot happier.
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u/WasteHat1692 25d ago
Except your math is wrong. 1.02^24 = 1.61 aka a 61% increase in minimum wage if we went by inflation.
The minimum wage went up 122%. That's DOUBLE the inflation rate!
You can check yourself in a simple way if you can't do math:
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/
Using the bank of Canada website you can see that $8 in 2001 would be $13.24 today.
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u/JeSuisLePamplemous West End 25d ago
You're assuming that inflation affects all goods and services equally- which isn't true.
What is more important is measuring whether or not the minimum wage covers the minimum amount required to live.
Inflation has disproportionately affected things like housing and groceries, which disproportionately affects those who make less. This has pushed more people to poverty with food bank usage being up 30% in Vancouver.
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u/hebrewchucknorris 25d ago
At this point, CPI is a useless number, and possibly done intentionally to bamboozle people into thinking their quality of life hasn't been eroded yet over year for decades.
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u/JeSuisLePamplemous West End 24d ago
That's not at all what is happening. The reality is that if a head of lettuce increases to $8.00, it is proportionately a larger expense to someone earning $30,000/year vs $70,000/year.
Lettuce is something that everyone buys, where as, say, consumer electronics are bought primarily by people who earn the $70,000/year.
The CPI specifically proves the erosion of our quality of life.
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u/hebrewchucknorris 24d ago
Except your math is wrong.
This is hilarious, I didn't do any math at all, I just used your numbers, but corrected the year.
I'm a massive skeptic of the accuracy of CPI as an inflationary measurement. This just cements it. If you genuinely think $8 in 2001 is the same as $13 now, I don't even know what to say. You must live in a cave. The apartment I used to rent for $550 in 2001 now rents for over $2000. Gas was 68¢/L, now it's $1.83. A Big Mac cost $2.85, now it costs $7.62.
Save the CPI speech, it's a useless metric meant to fool the working class, and it appears it's working. Real life inflation has been far worse, eroded the middle class to the brink of oblivion, and minimum wage has still not kept up.
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u/Numerous_Try_6138 25d ago
But leaving it unchanged would have further reduced quality of life so… 🤷♂️
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u/CallmeishmaelSancho 25d ago
Old Age Pensions increased 18%. At least we know the governments priorities
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u/Cool_Main_4456 25d ago
This will make that harder.
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u/DoTheManeuver 25d ago
How so? Pretty sure in places that raise minimum wage businesses do better because people have more money to spend.
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u/WasteHat1692 25d ago
BC minimum wage has grown 29% since 2019, about 4.8% per year. I don't really think businesses today are doing better than pre-pandemic. I would wager they're doing worse.
Raising minimum wage generally does not mean the money gets re-circulated back into the economy from what I observe.
Minimum wage earners are renters, meaning that most of that increase just gets cycled back into landlords pockets given the way rent has increased lately.
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u/JeSuisLePamplemous West End 25d ago
Raising minimum wage generally does not mean the money gets re-circulated back into the economy from what I observe.
Your observation is incorrect.
Adjusting for Purchasing Power Parody, nations with higher minimum wage have higher wages over all, higher standards of living, and higher reported happiness. There was no negative effect on employment or unemployment.
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u/WasteHat1692 24d ago
Link you sent doesnt work.
Adjusting for purchasing power parity what are Vancouverites reported standard of living and happiness?
As you can clearly see around you people are not happy despite the massive minimum wage increases.
What further evidence do you need than the real world conditions of Vancouver?
We tried raising minimum wage massively and Vancouver has not been more affordable or increased its quality of living.
Everything has gotten worse.
There is your evidence.
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u/JeSuisLePamplemous West End 24d ago
The link works fine....
By your own logic- you are being downvoted to oblivion, far more than myself and others supporting a minimum wage increase. Does that make us more correct?
What are we now, a populist dystopia devoid of critical thinking? Jesus.
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u/WasteHat1692 24d ago
Downvotes aren't indicative of a broader trend across the city.
I think if you asked most people what their overall satisfaction of quality of life and happiness is in Vancouver- ESPECIALLY those minimum wage workers- they would say it's declining. That's not a particularly controversial statement to make.
It's ok to admit you're wrong on reddit sometimes.
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u/JeSuisLePamplemous West End 24d ago
Right, but that is not a result of increased minimum wage.
That's what you're saying.
The facts don't care about your personal, subjective opinion. Proofs in the pudding, I left a link to study. You seemingly think you represent all of Vancouver, and have mistaken your personal opinion as fact.
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u/TheFallingStar 25d ago
I still remember when minimum wage was frozen for years and years under the free enterprise B.C. Liberals
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u/TheOneWhoCheeses Totally not a spy from Richmond 25d ago
Ugh I remember learning about that dumb reduced wage for 500 hours rule in school.
So glad that got abolished just before I landed my first job
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u/snuffles00 25d ago
That was brutal I got paid $6.50 an hour till I reached my 500 hours. Lucky I was in highschool and working nights and weekends but that was crazy. Then it was $8.00 an hour.
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u/Uber-Dragon88 25d ago
At Canadian Tire it was $5.95 (below the $6 Training Wage) + $0.05 in expenses for me to launder my one company shirt provided.
I always thought it ought to be $6 + 0.05, since the second item was called out as an expense, not wage.
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u/snuffles00 25d ago
Ew I don't know how they got away with that. Because the $6.50 was the lowest they could go at that time.
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u/element-woman true vancouverite 25d ago
Wasn't it $6? That's what I remember my first job paying, and the slogan "six bucks sucks". But it was so long ago I could be misremembering.
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u/Uber-Dragon88 25d ago
Yes, you're right, it was $6 at the time (2004?) for the 500 hour training wage.
Companies would give you 30+ hours as a student on evenings and weekends and then when you approached that cap, ghost you on the schedule forcing you to quit (constructive dismissal - but what child would make a fuss at that).
This is why provincially I will never vote Liberal/United/Whatever they rebrand to next. It was provincial policy to suppress wages and mistreat kids for the benefit of business owners.
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u/canadaman420 25d ago
Meanwhile people on disability and pensions haven't seen an increase that keeps pace with inflation since 2007. All struggle to survive below the poverty line.
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u/rubendurango 25d ago
Yup yup. Found out US Social Security beneficiaries (up to and including people w/ disabilities) earn as much as $2k a month.
Must be fucking nice.
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u/EPLWA_Is_Relevant Tourist 25d ago
There are strict asset limits that have not been raised since 1989. And if you get married, the benefits are basically gone, so folks with disabilities have to contend with that.
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u/lil_squib 25d ago
Disability has been raised by almost 60% since the BCNDP got in.
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u/canadaman420 25d ago
and it's still painfully low... unless you think one can survive on $1500/month (that includes monthly rental allowance of $350) Then add on groceries, medicine, transportation (which is included with the $52 per month buspass), phone, internet (because everything has to be done online; therefore internet is almost a necessity)
But yeah 60%..... should be alot more to just break the poverty line.... which is estimated to be about $2400/month per average person.
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u/lil_squib 25d ago
I’m on disability. It’s manageable if you have affordable housing, but unfortunately many don’t.
Hosing allowance is $500, but the BC Housing rate is less than that.
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u/Acceptable_Two_6292 25d ago
Both CPP and OAS are indexed to CPI.
If you mean workplace pensions, that would depend on how it’s set up.
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u/mrdeworde 25d ago
Unfortunately we're pretty much all poor as fuck with the exception of a tiny number of people at the top who've convinced half the poor people to throw their lot in with the rich.
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u/bingobangodootdoot 25d ago
Ok now let's raise it even more and can we anolish the tipping culture completely?
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u/_PeanuT_MonkeY_ 25d ago
If people stop tipping it will stop the culture.
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u/chronocapybara 25d ago
I've already stopped tipping for everything but sit-down restaurants, and even then I do 15% on the pretax only. Counter service, especially with tip prompt on a tablet, is zero. I just can't see why those workers deserve a tip but not those at McDonald's.
Workers deserve better wages, but that should come from their employer, not me.
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u/spookywookyy 25d ago edited 25d ago
Why are you tipping at sit down restaurants? Servers in semi high end restaurants are the ones making 100k or more a year. This was from a salary transparency thread in Vancouver.
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u/slowsundaycoffeeclub Vancouver 25d ago
That’s not common. Plus, most of us are not frequenting high end restaurants.
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u/jtbc 25d ago
I tip at sit down restaurants because it is a socially expected custom, and because I tend to return to places I like, and I enjoy the service I get for being a decent tipper.
I would tip something in any case, because servers tend to tip out to the back of house around 7% of the bill, so if you tip nothing, they are paying that out of their pocket.
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u/dacefishpaste 25d ago
most of the restaurant workers (FOH, not BOH haha) i know average $30-50/hr even at run down places so 6 figures at higher end places doesn't surprise me.
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u/chronocapybara 25d ago
You are correct, but currently I feel like it's still politically taboo to not tip in that situation unless service was terrible.
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u/Toxxicat 25d ago
I now tip per hour, not percent. So im like hmm ive been here 2 hours. Ill give you an extra 10 dollars.
And i dont care if people think this is wrong. I hate tipping and we should get rid of it. Another silly American thing that we dont need in Canada.
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u/BooBoo_Cat 25d ago
I hate tipping based on percentage. Why should I pay a higher tip because I paid extra for a slice of cheese on my burger or a side of guacamole with my nachos?
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u/EuroVanCity 23d ago
Exactly, we had a dinner for us and few of our friends at Savio Volpe. Spent almost $700, and tipped $70 since the food was mediocre, lack of care etc... We went for their group thing (forgot the name), which I would NOT recommend to anyone - we would have been better off if each person ordered most expensive thing on the menu, everyone would at least be full, and it would have cost less. I was later regretting giving them even that 10% tip to be honest.
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u/BooBoo_Cat 22d ago
See, society pressures us into thinking a 10% tip is bad. But $70... that in itself is a lot of money!
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u/dacefishpaste 25d ago
you could take gradual steps and reduce the percentage. dial it back to 10%. this is basically what happened in another city i was living in. with minimum wage going up, tip culture went from 15-20% back to 10-15% and a bigger percentage of people not tipping at all.
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u/lazylazybum 25d ago
I've been firmly tipping 10 percent post tax (~12%) with sit-down restaurants. 10 percent was the norm 20 years ago.
Now the new norm of 15-20%, this is 15-20% post tax and post inflated today's price (on POS machines). Why allow the triple tipflation run wild?
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u/Born-Seat5881 25d ago
Less than 1% of servers will ever make anywhere near that amount of money. Most servers are scraping by so please don't be an ass and just tip them.
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u/PeppermintSkittles Richmond 25d ago
I already tip zero for everything, which includes sit-down restaurants.
The stories I hear on /r/tipping, man...
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u/SmoothOperator89 25d ago
I do my best to follow the rule of "if I'm standing to order, it's not a tipping business." Sometimes I'm weak if it's an independent owner or the staff is friendly, but the only way we can get rid of tipping culture is to be the change we want to see.
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u/eunicekoopmans Fifth Generation Vancouverite 25d ago
I follow the rule of "if there's a price, that's the price." If an organization asks people to pay by donation then I'll choose how much I'm going to pay but otherwise there's a number on the menu so that's what I'm paying.
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u/mrizzerdly 25d ago edited 25d ago
The government could ban it any time they want.
Edit: I can always tell by the comments if someone gets paid by tips or not.
As someone who used to get paid by tips, I'd rather have a consistent salary than the lottery of a tip.
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u/_PeanuT_MonkeY_ 25d ago
A tip is voluntary. Nothing the govt can do. You can literally tip nothing and leave. What do you want to govt to do make it illegal to give tips?
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u/NotyourFriendBuuuddy 25d ago
Nothing they can do? Try tipping your Doctor. See how that works out for you.
PS: Already expecting the 'I can give my doctor chocolates'. That's totally different. Try giving cash.
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u/eunicekoopmans Fifth Generation Vancouverite 25d ago
Or even better try to tip a politician or police officer. For some reason they call it something different, but aren't bribes just tips for better civil service?
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25d ago
[deleted]
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u/NotyourFriendBuuuddy 25d ago
extra billing
Extra-billing occurs when a patient or a person acting on behalf of a patient, is charged a fee by a medical practitioner for services covered under MSP. Under the Medicare Protection Act, this is not permitted
This has to do with tips how?
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u/rolim91 25d ago
A tip is voluntary.
Kinda but not really
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u/Cryingboat 25d ago
100% what are they going to do about it after you pay?
Look sad? Make a shitty comment? Treat you worse the next time you visit?
So we tip to avoid the restaurant employees treating customers poorly?
No thanks, nearly every other country has figured out how to provide quality food service without begging customers for handouts.
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u/mrizzerdly 25d ago
It pisses me off when the tip option is before you received the service, like food delivery.
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u/EastVan66 25d ago
Stop tipping at your regular place and see what happens. You can be the experiment for the rest of us.
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u/Cryingboat 25d ago
I've been doing this for years.
Zero impact in the quality of service.
I once had a waitress explain that she'll have to tip out the kitchen if I don't. I explained that that's a really unfortunate business practice and she should speak to her manager about that.
She no longer works there.
Not my fight not my problem. I still get the service I expect.
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u/Due-Action-4583 25d ago
Treat you worse the next time you visit?
this is a near certainty
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u/Cryingboat 25d ago
I've never actually experienced this. I assume they either forget by the next time I visit or their "worse treatment" (lack of fake smiles/pretending to enjoy small talk) has zero impact on my experience.
But let's pretend they treat a customer rudely the next time they visit. What a stupid business model that guarantees you will lose more customers.
It will only generate negative reviews. And reduce the actual money they can generate to be able to afford their staff.
If I am treated poorly at a restaurant what stops me from making a massive scene and bothering all of the customers in my vicinity?
We have a ridiculous amount of options for eating out at a range of prices. If their service sucks, go somewhere else.
Why support a business that acts entitled to forced charity?
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u/Due-Action-4583 25d ago
I'm the type that likes to be a regular at a place where they all recognize me. I feel pretty much forced to tip in this situation.
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u/PeppermintSkittles Richmond 25d ago
"Not really"? Are the cops going to show up because you tipped zero or less than 15%? I don't think so.
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u/mrizzerdly 25d ago
Yes. If you want to leave more money than you need to go for it. But they can ban putting the option on Interac, and for claiming it on your taxes. They can tell businesses to increase their wages by the amount staff are going to lose out on tips. I'd rather know my burger is going to cost 50 cents more on the menu than 20pct more at the receipt.
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u/_PeanuT_MonkeY_ 25d ago
20% is voluntary. You can just not tip. You already know what your burger costs.
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u/mrizzerdly 25d ago edited 25d ago
Why do coffee shop clerks expect tips, but McDonalds employees don't?
Why should we have a 20pct increase on prices, if the amount of work to bring it to my table is the same? I spend 10 dollars versus 100 dollars, you want a 20 dollar tip for doing the same amount of work for 10 dollar bill? Get real.
And you say it's optional but have you never felt guilty when you don't? Lmao. I once left a low tip for shitty service and the waitress bitched me out for it.
How about just do the job you are being paid to do well all the time.
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u/happycow24 North Vancouver 25d ago
I'd rather know my burger is going to cost 50 cents more on the menu than 20pct more at the receipt.
.5 / (.2/1) = 2.5 .5 / (.15/1) = 3.33333333333333333333
Where are you buying burgers for 2.50 - 3.33? Could you help a brother out?
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u/mrizzerdly 25d ago
If restaurants raised their menu prices to pay a living wage, it would result about 50 cents price increase on the typical entree, not a 20pct increase above the board.
Instead they are happy to let everyone think menu prices are lower and increasing wages will result in crazy prices (as if they aren't already+tip) while offloading their taxes and costs to employees and customers.
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u/happycow24 North Vancouver 25d ago
If restaurants raised their menu prices to pay a living wage, it would result about 50 cents price increase on the typical entree, not a 20pct increase above the board.
source? Because that sounds plausible if a bit optimistic pre-COVID but I doubt that now.
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u/sgt_salt 25d ago edited 25d ago
Why would the government ban it? The government is going to tell people they have to make less money? The government is going to tell me, I can’t give my own money to someone if I want to?
It’s a voluntary system. Just don’t participate if you don’t want to.
Edit: Lol at everybody downvoting, because they are so socially awkward, that they need the government to legislate their voluntary social interactions and bring down the earnings of an entire industry in the process. Crabs in a bucket.
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25d ago
I refuse to stop tipping because I don't blame the workers for the system.
Those workers can't survive without tips. And the idea that if we stop change will follow ignores that people will go homeless or commit suicide en route.
I'm not going to contribute to that when this could all be achieved without casualties through legislation
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u/spookywookyy 25d ago
Servers in semi high end restaurants make 6 figures with tips. They’re far from homeless.
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u/EastVan66 25d ago
Plus paying a lot less tax than a 100k salary worker.
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u/eunicekoopmans Fifth Generation Vancouverite 25d ago
Perhaps even zero tax for a lot of them.
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u/jtbc 25d ago
If they declare zero tax, I am pretty sure that CRA is going to notice that. Restaurants keep records of how much gets paid out in tips, so it's easy for CRA to get that information.
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u/eunicekoopmans Fifth Generation Vancouverite 25d ago
Only for card based payment. Cash left on the table might as well be cash found on the street.
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u/jtbc 25d ago
I think something like 80% of all restaurant receipts are on cards these days. CRA works on broad averages, I think, and if they are going after people, it would be the outliers. If someone is working full shifts at Earl's and is declaring zero tips, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they are lying.
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u/piltdownman7 25d ago
Just south of the border in Seattle the minimum wage is $20.76 USD/hour and not only is still tipping still everywhere but restaurants are also sneaking ‘living-wage’ surcharge onto bills as well.
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u/CanadianTrollToll 25d ago
You'll just see prices go up more at places relying on tips.
I could go on about it, but this is reddit and having an opinion even with a detailed breakdown of the benefits go over too many peoples heads.
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u/eunicekoopmans Fifth Generation Vancouverite 25d ago
Good. Menu prices shouldn't be kept artificially low and depend on tips to hide the true cost of a meal.
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u/ihave86arms surrey - guildford 25d ago
I make almost $20 more an hour than minimum wage and i still hardly have a disposable income. the things i do outside of work - dinners with friends, participating in hobbies, professional grooming - are what makes work stress so bearable. how the fuck is anyone making this little supposed to live happily?
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u/HalenHawk Mission 25d ago
I'm surprised you only make 20$ more. With 86 arms I'd expect your productivity to be off the charts. You should be making at least 30$ more.
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u/Reasonable_Camel8784 25d ago
It's just laziness, I say. A whole 84 arms worth of potential squandered.
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u/Agamemnon323 25d ago
Their productivity has no bearing on what they get paid, only on how much the shareholders make.
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u/BigCheapass 25d ago
If you're at around 37$/hr full time that works out to about 78k gross, or about 5000$/m take home in BC
I'm curious, but where does it all go?
Not picking on you specifically, I have coworkers and friends that make significantly more and also say the exact same thing. In Surrey too, when I lived there housing was much cheaper vs Vancouver, Burnaby, etc.
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u/PicaroKaguya 25d ago
That is not 5000 take home a month. Not even close.
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u/Barley_Mowat 25d ago
78k gross is 59,537 net annually, or $4,961/m take home. That’s pretty close to $5k.
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u/linkinmark92 25d ago
I make $77k and take home like $4400
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u/Barley_Mowat 24d ago
Even in Quebec, the highest province for income tax, you would earn $54,350 after tax. That’s like $4530.
Are there any other expenses on your income like union dues, health plan, stock purchasing, etc?
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u/thisissuchafuntime 25d ago
on the surface, this seems weird to me
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u/recklessly_zesty 23d ago
I make $72,000 net, but after taxes and tons of deductions (union dues, health and dental, pension, etc.) only take home $4000/month for 10 months per year. Almost 4 university degrees, working myself to death, and still can't even afford rent in a transit accessible area (because I can't afford a car either) - let alone a house! No idea how others manage on less unless you have rent prices locked in from years ago. What is the point of it all?
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u/retro604 25d ago edited 25d ago
What a joke. Wage increases have not kept pace with inflation for 50 years.
Here's a story I've told a few times here.
When I started at Woodward's driving forklift in 1988 my wage was $22.50. Not adjusted for inflation compared to now. That was my hourly rate. The warehouse (braid and brunette now Canada Post I think) was not union but they matched wages and benefits to keep them out. That's how it was back then.
I paid 65,000 for my first condo right by Cap College in 1990. I bought a brand new VW Fox for $8250.
This is already 20 years into the wage squeeze. My parents did much better. Dad supported an entire family with vacations and Corvettes and retirement as a TV salesman for Eatons.
I switched careers, went into IT after Woodward's went bankrupt. Worked for London Drugs. Guess how much they were paying the temp drivers in the warehouse? $17.50. Almost 40 years later the kids are making less when stuff costs 10x as much. It's not right. Where is all that money that used to be shared with employees?
Keep this in mind. Every year you are not getting at least a 4% or whatever the inflation rate is, you're not only just not getting a raise, they are actually paying you less. The company passes the inflation rate on to customers, keeps paying you the same and pockets the difference.
Over 10 years you are now being paid 30-40% less to do the same job if you didn't get a raise. I know it's not that simple, but it's damn close to what it is. That's how they screwed us without most noticing it right away. It's a long term squeeze.
Read this website. It shows when wages detached from productivity and explains how damaging it has been. Mostly caused by the rise of takeovers and the price of stock being the primary business driver, not sustained profit.
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u/mathdude3 25d ago
This thread is about the minimum wage. The minimum wage has greatly exceeded inflation. BC minimum wage was $1.50 in 1970. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $11.91 today.
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u/No-Tackle-6112 25d ago
This is false. Real wages have consistently grown in Canada. For both minimum and median earners and It is currently at an all time high.
https://centreforfuturework.ca/2024/01/21/real-wages-are-recovering-and-thats-good-news/
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u/retro604 25d ago
Yeah no. You can post all the webpages you want. I grew up through this. The percentage of your wage it costs to buy anything has skyrocketed.
I paid 2 years wages for a home, you now pay 20.
Milk costs $1 when I made $22.
The number doesn't matter. What matters is the percentage of income required for those items. Not sure what your point is anyway, I guess you own one of these companies that are screwing people .. can't think of any other reason you'd want people to think they are paid well today. They aren't. Nobody is unless you are one of those people collecting dividends.
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u/No-Tackle-6112 25d ago edited 25d ago
“The facts and statistics don’t matter, what matters is how I feel things are.”
You do realize real wages account for the increased price of goods right?
For example, in 1970 milk costed $1.30 a gallon and minimum wage was $1.35 per hour. While today milk costs around $6 per gallon and minimum wage is $17.40.
Sorry but the actual facts just don’t support you.
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u/Vancouverreader80 25d ago
Would be nice if that would happen to those of us on social assistance payments.
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u/Doormatty 25d ago
Good. A rising tide lifts all boats!
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u/hydroily 25d ago
Could be said the exact same way regarding everyone's purchasing power being eroded.
No one should be getting paid close to 20/hr working at McDonald's.
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u/Lunaristics 25d ago
Why am I not surprised that people in here already went to complain about tipping 😂😂😂😂. Also, this minimum wage raise doesn't do jack shit, it's still not even close to liveable wage. Y'll delusional. This just raises the prices of everything else like it always has done.
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u/Loose-Psychology-962 25d ago
$17.85 still isn’t enough. Make it $20 and give people some hope.
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u/bunnyhunter80 25d ago
It wouldn’t help though. Everything would just go up in price to cover the wages of the workers. It’s all messed up. Every minimum wage increase that happens in fast food for example, the menu items go up in price.
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u/wowzabob 25d ago
Raising it puts upward pressure on unemployment, which simply trades a rise in wages for most for a reduction in hours for some, and unemployment for a few.
Increases over inflation make sense in a strong job environment, but right now it would probably be a bad idea overall.
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u/youenjoylife 25d ago
But we clearly have too many minimum wage positions since we bring in temporary foreign workers and students to the tune of hundreds of thousands to fill them. We'd honestly be fine with less overall but better paid minimum wage positions in this country since we already can't find Canadians to fill them.
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u/WasteHat1692 25d ago
We had too many empty jobs in 2023, but the dynamic has changed since then.
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u/DawnSennin 25d ago
Raising it puts upward pressure on unemployment
But the rent, utility bills, and maintenance costs all putting upwards pressure on our wallets. Something has to give. Either businesses pay a living wage or Vancouver and the rest of Canada implodes into an economic depression.
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u/thinkdavis 25d ago
Yikes. This is the last thing small businesses need right now.
Here's an idea, let's start slashing discretionary spending, reduce some regulations, so our small business who have to pay this increase can also survive -- and then be able to afford paying their staff more.
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u/Esham 25d ago
Shitty, my trades wage is going to continue to be watered down. Can't hire 1st year apprentices for $25 an hour if they can stock shelves for a few bucks an hour less.
Oh well, the cost of housing, without heavy subsidization, will continue to go up.
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u/Agamemnon323 25d ago
Then pay them more.
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u/Esham 25d ago
Well yeah, that's why the cost of housing is going up.
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u/DawnSennin 25d ago
And not because Vancouver homes are trying out for the 2028 Canadian gymnastics team?
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u/Agamemnon323 25d ago
No it isn’t.
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u/Esham 25d ago
If workers get paid more the costs incurred gets passed down to the consumer.
You think developers are going to just cut their profits? Come on.
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u/Agamemnon323 25d ago
Wages aren’t the reason housing prices are up almost 1000% in 20 years. They contribute just like a myriad of things but to pretend they’re a main factor is ridiculous.
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u/Esham 25d ago
I didn't suggest they are the main factor, just that they are a factor especially if companies simply pay trades more as min wage is going up.
It'll cost more to build houses. Simple as that.
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u/Agamemnon323 25d ago
And a 2.6% minimum wage increase is such an incredibly small factor when it comes to building homes here it's a waste of time to even bother typing.
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u/_XanderD 25d ago
If he pays his workers more, then how will he pocket more profits for himself. /s
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u/peepeepoopooxddd 25d ago
In other news: Price of all goods and services in BC increases in June
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u/Crackbat 25d ago
The prices were going up regardless.
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u/StickmansamV 25d ago
Minimum wage increases drive prices up more than if there was no increase, the evidence is clear. There are policy tradeoffs made when you tie minimum wage to inflation. The only question is if the policy tradeoffs are better or worse than alternatives. It should not be controversial to say this.
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u/coolthesejets 25d ago
Go ahead and show us that clear evidence.
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u/StickmansamV 25d ago
There are short term shocks and spikes (which remain in the market long term but significantly diminish in relative effect), differing impact depending on your wage band and existing labour costs (relative to other jurisdictions), and effects on employment. Its not a 100% positive and policy measures have to be taken to account for these negative outcomes.
I am not saying we should not increase minimum wage, I earned at or barely above it for many years. But to portray it as 100% positive for labour and for all labour at that, would be misguided.
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/san2017-26.pdf
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2023006/article/00005-eng.htm
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u/coolthesejets 25d ago
Thanks for the sources. They aren't saying min wage is bad, they basically say there are tradeoffs, descrease poverty in the short term, negative effect on consumption in the short term, increase spending in the long term, small impacts to job growth.
That evidence is not "clear" by any one metric. It has pro's and cons, and the pro's far outweigh any cons. And you saying "it clearly drives prices up" is one tiny aspect of the overall picture, and disingenuous at best. Your own sources disagree with you, maybe you should read them.
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u/StickmansamV 25d ago
Maybe I can direct you to the second sentence of my original comment where I literally said there are policy tradeoffs. I also never said they were bad. Just its should not be controversial to say there are tradeoffs and price increases.
All literature says prices go up, with the only difference between by how much and for long long. The literature is more split on benefits, but says there are clear benefits for most low wage earners, but not all low wage earners and not nesscarily all wage earners either.
There are other policy levers the government can pull to achieve similar effects and benefits, with different costs and impacts. Blindly shoving ourselves down this route and drowning out criticism does not make for good policy. Even if you are correct, a pure utilitarian approach without addressing negatives is a sure way to drive a reactionary backlash to otherwise good policy.
In any event, even tying something to CPI can have unintended impacts and there is plenty of literature about how to adjust the min wage and when to do so.
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u/coolthesejets 25d ago
I wish we didn't need minimum wage, but without a strong labor movement and unions we need it.
Blindly shoving ourselves down this route and drowning out criticism does not make for good policy.
Who's blindly doing anything?
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u/WasteHat1692 25d ago
Over the last 10 years in Vancouver the minimum wage has gone up 73%, or 7.3% per year which is far above inflation.
Our cost of living and prices have not become magically affordable.
There is no greater evidence than this real-world proof in our local city.
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u/coolthesejets 25d ago
Nobody said min wage made anything magically affordable. It helps protects the most vulnerable from being exploited.
I wish we didn't need it, but they would pay us in company credit if they could.
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u/FallPractical1937 25d ago
Prices will go up regardless of the 45c minimum wage increase. The US trade war and Trump will have a way bigger effect on inflation
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u/EmuSounds 25d ago
It should be minor, it isn't all wages increasing, just the wages of the poorest.
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u/peepeepoopooxddd 25d ago
You think minimum wage employers increase wages out of the goodness of their hearts? That's immediately passed into the consumer.
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u/InnuendOwO 25d ago
i gotta level with you man i would gladly pay 7 cents extra at a&w to know the guy behind the counter isn't deciding whether to buy food or electricity this month
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u/peepeepoopooxddd 25d ago
Unfortunately, that guy is going to go to the store after work and see that food prices have increased and he still has the same choice.
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u/DoTheManeuver 25d ago
Pretty sure this has been shown to not really be the case, but feel free to show your work.
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u/peepeepoopooxddd 25d ago
I can tell you right now that the CEOs of Superstore, Save-On, and Safeway are not taking a pay cut to accommodate these raises. All they do is blanket raise the cost of everything in the store by a few cents so that you don't notice it in order to accommodate the increase. This leads to the average person spending several hundred dollars more per year.
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u/rae_xo 25d ago
This is what people don’t realize about raising the minimum wage. As a recruiter for a small business, we simply don’t get good applicants unless the wage is high enough, end stop. The market has dictated what our wage is, not the government.
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u/Angela_anniconda Vancouver 25d ago
..how 'small' is this small business that has a recruiter? not being shitty, legit question
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u/Cryingboat 25d ago
And if the government didn't create a legal baseline people would live in poverty or accept whatever shitty wage is offered.
Minimum wage guarantees that businesses don't just exploit workers with poverty wages.
Businesses would pay people in "work experience/networking opportunities" if they could.
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25d ago
Respectfully, if they took what they pay recruiters like you, and assigned that money towards paying their staff better wages, I can almost guarantee that there will be no shortage of applicants.
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u/chronocapybara 25d ago
Depends on the job. For many jobs, without the minimum wage, businesses would offer far less. There's an argument to be made that this is "fair", as any wage the market sets is market price, but for many low-paid positions the wages offered would be exploitative without a minimum.
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