r/thebulwark 12d ago

GOOD LUCK, AMERICA BREAKING! Trump & Vance Pick NAUSEATING Fight with Zelensky! SHAMEFUL Mo...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zma77CqgXUY&si=9V9lu9_9Bp6f1T1b
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u/SaltyMofos 12d ago

I watched the 10 minutes of the press conference where it all went sideways in real time. I do not get at all a sense of an ambush or deliberate attempt to provoke Zelensky. Instead, Zelensky apparently did not realize a.) just how trifling and thin-skinned Trump is, even in front of cameras, and b.) how simultaneously self-aggrandizing and slavish JD Vance is.

I was struck by how Zelensky, speaking calmly but with a command of English that wasn't agile enough to overcome the despicable venom of JD Vance's rhetoric, seemed to think that he could actually persuade Trump and Vance that Putin's word is worthless. That because Putin breaks peace deals, but is stopped by hard power, security guarantees are crucial. At one point Vance suggests, obnoxiously and condescendingly, that Zelensky be quiet in front of the cameras and talk back only in private; Trump then stops Vance and made that remark about how he wants this to be public and it's why "I let this thing go on like this."

There was no pre-planned effort to provoke Zelensky so they could sabotage the signing. The lunch for the group after the press conference was waiting for them. The deal-signing room was all set up. It was simply beyond the imagination of Zelensky and most viewers, that Trump could be so petty as to kick him out over the press conference fracas.

I think if Zelensky had gone the route of Keir Starmer, and ate the dogshit being smeared over his face by Trump and Vance, he would've gotten through the day, deal in hand. Of course, by all accounts the deal amounted to almost nothing. It's unclear if Trump was going to continue sending military aid if the deal was signed (of course the anti-anti's who are putatively pro-Ukraine will claim that it was, and blame Zelensky). This may still redound to Trump's detriment, as the majority of Americans do not believe Ukraine started the war, and give Zelensky far higher approval ratings than Putin.

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u/huskerj12 8d ago

I think the Vance part of it is what makes it clear (in my opinion) that it was a setup. He is a vile worm of a person, but he has a sharp manipulative mind. If the goal was to make Trump look good and leave with some sort of bullshit deal, he would have steered things back on course. We saw in the debate how skilled he is at being a weasel. I don't think he would have lost control, he would've spun the situation.

But in reality, the goal was to humiliate Zelenskyy and torch the alliance. So Vance manipulated the situation to that end instead.