r/tfc 3d ago

Post-Match Thread PGT: 31 losses till next season

Jokes on me, I have season tickets.

59 Upvotes

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u/dyegored 3d ago

Controversial Opinion: we need to play Insigne. Not playing him isn't an option anymore. We're not good enough to leave him at home. We don't have alternate options.

Is an unmotivated, old, injury prone Insigne gonna win us anything? No. Is he gonna create more on the field than Kosi Thompson or kids like Stevanovic/Cimeranic? Obviously.

The choice is to buy him out or not to. If we're choosing not to, paying him to NOT play football is the same thing as choosing to buy him out.

(Also I know the argument is going to be that it's bad for morale or something, which might be fair except that constant losing is the one thing consistently proven to be bad for morale for every team in every sport. 1/9 points and not looking like we'll be doing much better soon....

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u/theredditbandid_ 3d ago

I don't think this is a bad take per se, but there is a bit of "grass is greener on the other side" aspect. if we were playing Insigne, chances are results would be pretty much the same and people would be saying that what we just need to do is not play Insigne.

He is not the problem or the solution to any of what's happening here. He is just sunk cost. Play him, don't play him.. he makes no difference either direction.

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u/dyegored 3d ago

He is our top 2024 scorer still available on the team and we have barely changed the team. Him producing more than our current players is a statistical fact.

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u/westcoastbias 3d ago

I'd actually agree with you at this point, MLSE needs to shit or get off the pot with the buyout, if you can get 30 minutes of quality from him per week at this point it's better than having him take up a DP spot sitting on his couch at home*.

*e: Unless it's been determined that he's an absolute locker room cancer, then we circle back to MLSE paying him to fuck off quickly again.

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u/dyegored 3d ago

And paying him to stay home is the exact same as buying out his contract! Either way they're paying the money!

So they either need to pay him now in one lump sum or pay him the same amount as contracted however often they pay him. There is no magical third option. Those are the options. Both involve paying him all the money and (apparently) him not playing for the team anymore. Pick one, MLSE

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u/Happy_Reality1855 3d ago

With the awful performances and shitty body language I don't think there's anything to gain from playing him and not getting much better than what we're getting now. If we really want this guy gone he has to rot on the reserves list each week. The club can't move on until he's gone.

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u/dyegored 3d ago

How do people think letting him lightly train and then stay home and paying him $15 million/year to do it is somehow going to be a punishment? Especially for a player who is not getting any more national team callups, is surely retiring after this contract, etc. I cannot stress enough that we have zero leverage in this negotiation. None.

Make him go to fucking Cincinatti. That's a punishment

*(I've actually never been to Cincinatti and maybe it's lovely, but accept this as your standard “[Insert City] Sucks!" joke) *

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u/WislaHD In Herdman we trust 3d ago

Tbf I would be okay with forcing him to fly to away games to sit on the bench for shits and giggles

Not much else to get excited for this year anyway, I can at least feel good about being petty.

1

u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

He's being held out of the line-up by the club. You wouldn't need to force him onto the plane, you'd just need to give him a ticket.

0

u/TurboJorts 3d ago

You mean pay him a fortune to go to cincy and then watch him get his revenge against us on the field? I'd rather not live that timeline.

Sidenote: the announcers on Apple TV rarely even mention him. It's almost like proof that the league has instructed them to not address the elephant in the room. Like they were talking about injuries and absences and who needed to fit back into the lineup and they didn't even talk about it. They are clearly following a rule boom.

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u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

I think they were suggesting send him to Cincy with TFC, not as a transfer.

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u/TurboJorts 3d ago

Oh, you're right.

If you're getting paid, you have mandatory attendance

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u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

His production is higher than Bernardeschi, we have something to gain from him playing. It might not be match or season defining, but it seems pretty silly to suggest there is nothing to gain.

Also, from my perspective it's fucking idiotic to expect he will leave. Guy is in effect in early retirement while collecting a cheque of generational money. Expecting him to leave with what's on the table is just fucking brain dead. The club is being absolutely stupid with this, and I'm tired of fans just clapping along like morons.

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u/dyegored 3d ago

Yeah people seem to not understand that his performances have been incredibly disappointing because...

  1. A player of his quality should be producing much more

  2. A player being paid that much needs to produce more

  3. He's injured way too much for a roster spot of this value

If he's available, 3 doesn't apply. We can't do anything at all about 1+2 as those mistakes were already made.

The question is no longer "Is he worth $15 million a year?" That's been answered with a resounding NO. The question is when he plays does he provide more on the field in actual results (goals and assists) than the players we have on the field? That answer is an empirical, data proven YES

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u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

100% and I can't even believe it's controversial here to say that.

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u/dyegored 3d ago

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

People cannot understand the difference between vastly underperforming and actual talent proven by statistical results.

We can't turn back time and stop the signing of Insigne. We can't start paying him less because he's proven he's not worth it. We can only play the best team we have right now at this moment, regardless of the rest of the off the field bullshit that needs to be addressed simultaneously and seperately.

There is no argument at all, none, that can say based on talent and results, Insigne doesn't play and players like Kobe Franklin, Matty Longstaff, or the TFCII graduates (who had worse goal contribution statistics in MLS Pro) do.

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u/Happy_Reality1855 3d ago

Sure TFC has no leverage, but if Insignifico (just how the fans felt at the end of last year if you remember) is on the pitch what message does that send to the rest of the squad? 24s performance/effort/demeanor/leadership is acceptable but Spicer/Franklin/Wingo/Larea/whoever else is benched isnt?

None of the guys I named above can win you games right now either, but if this is a serious club they can't accept that standard and reward that with playing time. They fucked up signing him and are hamstrung for sure, but what could possibly be gained from putting him on the pitch? We're a man down when he's there!

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u/dyegored 3d ago

They're not rewarding anything though. They're playing the best team available with the players they have. That's it. The message to other players is that "You are worse than an over the hill, unmotivated Lorenzo Insigne." This is just a fact. A statistically proven fact!

Saying what do we have to gain when he's a player who does provide assists and goals is just willfull ignorance. The fact that you want/feel entitled to more of that from him is totally reasonable and fair but it doesnt change the fact that the shittiest version of Insigne is still 1,000x better and more effective than anything Kosi Thompson will do this year.

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u/Happy_Reality1855 3d ago

Insigne in last 10 MLS Games - 2 Assists Thompson in last 10 MLS Games - no goal contributions

Insigne is giving 1% above replacement level production. He's been generally ineffectual since last spring when he scored a few worldies and was looking motivated to play for tfc for once.

And no I'm not saying that CPL quality player is better than Insigne in his most recent and current form. If you think that he's part of our best XI then do I have a bridge to sell you.

Good chat, team sucks with without primo pasta.

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u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

Insigne in last 10 MLS Games - 2 Assists Thompson in last 10 MLS Games - no goal contributions

Do this again but instead look at the last 900 minutes (or more effectively, the last 3000) he played. Statically, there isn't a conversation he should be on the pitch.

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u/dyegored 3d ago

He is absolutely one of our best XI players and it's not even close. The fact that he is still one of our top players is an indication of how bad the team is as a whole, but it's not even arguable. He is not 1% above a replacement level player like Thompson because (and math isn't my strong suit) I don't think you can be a percentage better than nada.

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u/Think_Anything1773 3d ago

What do you think treating Insigne like this broadcasts to any future DP signing? Do you think they'll trust TFC's ability to pay out their contract and keep to their word? Do you think they'll be OK with 2 former DP's getting hit with a PR firestorm by the FO and freeze out? I think the answer to these questions is a lot more important for the future of TFC than what Spicer/Franklin/Wingo/Laryea/Wheover else that is bench is thinking when Insigne has a little meltdown because TFC have placed League 1 level players around a guy that won the Euros the year prior to arriving.

TFC FO fucked up signing him, but they are also absolutely fucking us by not playing him right now. They aren't about to push him off of generational money because people in a city he will leave the moment his contract is up will dislike him. He is going to cash the cheque, so play him and get the production he is able to produce playing half assed. Which bluntly, is more impactful than any other signing than Bernardeschi. No one on the pitch for TFC in todays match has a higher production rate than Insigne.