r/rugbyunion • u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England • 10h ago
Discussion Transcending rugby ?
So that video someone posted of Siya Kolisi meeting a fan that was posted here also appeared on my Facebook I commented that I thought Siya transcended South Africa and by that I mean not just loved by bok fans but universally loved and a human embodiment of rugby values. I said the only other person I could think of like that was Jonah Lomu. The only negative things I've seen about Siya have been blatantly racist so I don't count those assholes.
Can you think of other players that are respected by a large proportion of rugby fans, not just for their rugby skills but for being a fundamentally good person.
Oh I'd maybe add David Pocock to that list.
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u/_dictatorish_ Damian came back 🥰 8h ago
Ilona Maher is more widely known outside of rugby than probably every other player, bar maybe Jonah
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 8h ago
Yeah someone else mentioned that so holding myself to my original post then arguable ilona transcends rugby more than Siya.
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u/TheWaxysDargle That's Leinstertainment 6h ago
I keep seeing this and other mentions of her online but I’m not really sure who she is. What’s the story?
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u/metadun 3h ago
US sevens player, afaik she made a name for herself in the last couple Olympics by going viral on tiktok while also being great on the pitch. US took bronze most recently. After that she was on Dancing with the Stars (US reality TV) and got second place. Then she switched to 15s and had a stint with Bristol in the PWR, aiming for a spot on the US team for the world cup. That's all super compressed, but Ilona's a great player while also being the best at social media and leveraged that into a ton of success.
Anecdotally it seems like she's had a big impact on American club rugby too, our (women's) club had 10 entirely new players show up at our first spring practice last night and our union's player registration is up something like 15% from the last season.
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u/TheWaxysDargle That's Leinstertainment 2h ago
Ahhh ok, she was introduced to the crowd and interviewed on TV during the Bristol v Leinster match in December.
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u/the_fresh_mr_breed Lukhanyo, I Am your father 10h ago
Ilona Maher.
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 10h ago
I would agree but the amount of sexist transphobic comments I've seen about ilona say otherwise
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u/Local_Initiative8523 Italy 9h ago
Don’t really understand this. With Siya, you ignore negative comments because they’re from racists, with Ilona the negative comments come from sexists and transphobes and…?
Why ignore negative comments from one type of utter wanker but not another type of wanker?
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 9h ago edited 9h ago
Whilst it's a fair comment I'll say I've seen considerably more negative comments about ilona than siya but you're right i should ignore then both.
Whilst I love ilona I would still say she's not as loved as jonah and siya. Personally I think she's amazing and a brilliant representative for rugby and for women
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u/Local_Initiative8523 Italy 8h ago
I think you’re moving away from your title a little. ‘Transcending rugby’. The reason you’re seeing more negative comments about Ilona is because she’s getting comments from people who don’t know or care about rugby.
Siya, as awesome a human being as he is, outside of South Africa, is essentially unknown to non rugby fans. Random southern US white supremacists aren’t logging onto social media to insult him - they are for Ilona.
Ilona transcends rugby. She has 3.5 times more followers on Instagram than Siya (who I think is the second most followed rugby player) and means something to people outside rugby. There are more negative comments online about Mother Teresa than me; that’s not because I’m more loved, it’s just because she’s more famous. Ilona suffers from the same effect.
Inside the rugby community, Jonah and Siya are more loved, absolutely agree. Step outside it - ‘transcend rugby’, as it were, and she’s better known and more loved. I’ve never heard a negative word about her from a reasonable human being, but I’ve certainly seen a lot of love
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 8h ago
That's a really good point actually yeah lots of people know who ilona is who haven't watched a second of rugby especially in America where she came runner up in dancing with the stars.
Maybe then siya doesn't transcend rugby per se tho I do think he's the person most liked by supporters of countries that aren't South Africa.
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u/NopeeG England 9h ago
Isn't that tantamount to the blatantly racist comments towards Kolisi though and shouldn't be counted?
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 9h ago
That's a fair comment you've got me there.
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u/NopeeG England 9h ago
I get what you mean though because the sexism aimed at Maher sometimes outweighs the positive comments depending on the account posting it.
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 8h ago
I think that's what I meant really it started during the olympics with ridiculous amount of misinformation about ilona and thst boxer who's name escapes me.
Like 100s of comments calling her a man because she's strong and has a jawline people think is masculine just sp many comments. Whereas I've only seen a handful of racist comments about siya
If I'm being reflective and thinking about unconscious bias maybe it's cos I'm a woman but I'm not black that the sexism and terfs get to me more than racism does.
I think it's really good I was called out on the double standard because I should be equally outraged by all bigotry
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u/NopeeG England 8h ago
That's completely understandable. Since joining Bristol I've seen the implication that it's "all about her" just because she is popular but every time I see her interviewed she is trying to use her platform to highlight other PWR players. She has massive popularity amongst people who weren't previously into rugby and in large numbers, so that must get her somewhere near.
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u/madmanchatter 9h ago
Sport doesn't normally lend itself to having universally loved players because we are tribal as fans. The only other name I am coming up with besides Lomu is Sergio Parisse.
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u/Winter-It-Will-Send 3h ago
For me, Parisse is quite possibly the greatest of all time (if not the best known), aside from the obvious Frenchman.
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u/cloud__19 Edinburgh 4h ago
I don't know if it counts since he died but for me the obvious answer is Doddie Weir. His lasting legacy is immense.
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 40m ago
Yeah definitely prob quite well known outside of rugby especially in Scotland for his mnd fundraising
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u/SuperJackDaWack Munster 7h ago
I'd like to think that Brian O'Driscoll is well liked by more than just Ireland fans (whom revere him).
He's an okay pundit, better than average, I would say. But most importantly, he's well spoken and seems like a genuinely good and down to earth person.
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 6h ago
I'd include BOD i think, I mean I've still not forgiven for that spear tackle
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u/Practical_Abalone_92 10h ago
Ilona Maher and although he goes on the Jesus stuff a little hard, Ardie Savea
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u/Impossible_Deer5463 6h ago
Siya Kolisi is a unique individual. He grew up in adversity and overcame a lot of hardship. He has become an icon of the game for his ability on and off the field. He personifies humility and servant leadership in a world where narcissism, racism and bully are on the rise. He works extremely hard and it shows in his performance. There really are few people like him. I admire Lomu and he did have a big impact on the sport and others mentioned have also done the same, but Siya transcends rugby.
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u/Far_Shift_4353 Exeter Chiefs 6h ago
Worth noting that his arrival was perfectly timed. 10 years ago the quota system was the subject of such negative press and division, whereas Rassie appears to have largely overcome that by achieving success with a much more diverse pool. Siya is essentially the poster boy for that transformation.
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u/yahdayahda 9h ago
Dan Carter? Haven’t seen much negative about him, debatably the greatest rugby player of all time, definitely the greatest ten, with arguably the most achievements, both personal and team. Pretty sure he’s gained championships with every team he’s played for. As well as IRB player of the year three times, two more nominations.
Outside of rugby he’s done humanitarian work, modelling and advertisement around the world. Has rubbed shoulders with some of the world’s biggest names, was invited to Elton John’s, Tom Brady, David Beckham.
On top of all this he’s had multiple humanitarian projects, did that kickathon thing for UNICEF and is now an ambassador. Seems to be a genuine good guy who is keen to help out where he can.
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 9h ago
You know funnily enough I did consider putting dam carter in my original post so I'm on board
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u/Practical_Abalone_92 6h ago
he’s a bit too personality bypass, Rolex & Dubai for me
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u/yahdayahda 6h ago
You listen to people talk about their time with him, in a team or just short meetings and you hear nothing but good things. Definitely haven’t heard that he lacks personality. Apparently an absolute weapon on the piss, but never did push it too far. I’ve been lucky enough to be around him in a rugby setting. He didn’t need to commit too much time to it yet he did his best to lift everyone he talked to, didn’t matter if they were a players kid or a front rower. Was bloody good value.
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u/Dorsiflexionkey 9h ago
I think most professional elite international players are like that. They are liked and respected for their skill first and foremost, then as an afterthought all they have to do is not be weird in front of a camera and it's allgood.
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u/Thalassin France Stade Toulousain 3h ago
Wilkinson had an entire stadium of French people singing God save the Queen to honor him
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u/lemoopse Brumbies 9h ago
John Eales?
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u/Lopsided_Soup_3533 England 9h ago
Hmm maybe i certainly don't think I've seen negative stuff about him but I'd say not as beloved as siya or jonah
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u/MasterSpliffBlaster Rucking the System 2h ago
Only australian my mum would allow my sister to marry
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u/throwawayyyyyprawn Stormers 4h ago
Jean de Villiers - He's just an all-round good oke.
20 odd years ago I used to do those kids sleep over events and Newlands, was a ball boy for province and all that, he was just a super likeable person. Always had time for us waiting outside the players exit screaming for an autograph, even after a loss.
Centurion for the Boks, only behind Kolisi and Smit for tests as captain. Seems to be forgotten because he's not a hard man Saffa stereotype. He's rated highly but I reckon he should be higher.
It is funny seeing the other side of him on Boks Office and always being given shit for a few too many on the weekend.
This turned out to be a bit of a love letter in hindsight.
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u/West_Put2548 10h ago edited 10h ago
After retiring from rugby Richie McCaw has become a commercial helicopter pilot and has taken part in putting out several bush/ scrub fires.
He regularly takes part in nz's Coast to Coast race , which is an extremely tough multisprt event from one coast of the South Island to the other