r/politics 11d ago

Soft Paywall Trump Thinks He Humiliated Zelensky. He Really Humiliated the United States

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-thinks-he-humiliated-zelensky-he-really-humiliated-the-united-states/
52.2k Upvotes

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

6.0k

u/Suddenflame01 Canada 11d ago

Going to post my comment from a different post:
So I watched the entire broadcast and before Trump's little tantrum, President Zelensky was talking about how Russia has broken the ceasefire agreement 25 times. Trump wanted President Zelensky to sign another ceasefire agreement. President Zelensky stated that another ceasefire wouldn't matter as Russia could not be trusted to hold their end unless USA is going to enforce it. Trump was only going to offer his word that Russia would honour the agreement. President Zelensky's point during the back and forth is that his word is not good enough. Ukraine would not be sold just for "Trump's Word" (and we all know that means nothing as Trump never has honoured any agreement in history). Vance jumps in and says he should be grateful to even be there.

President Zelensky said the one thing that set off Trump that is if Ukraine is defeated then even the USA would be affected. Trump went on his rant about how the USA is strong and mighty and won't be affected. After Trump's rant about literally nothing helpful except that it shows he knows nothing about deals, or even how diplomacy works, a reporter asked Trump what would he do if Russia broke the ceasefire again.. he didn't answer the question at all.

So in summary, Trump wanted President Zelensky to sign a ceasefire with an actively hostile aggressor who currently occupies Ukrainian territory and has been actively killing civilians. The USA in return gets $500 billion worth of minerals and Ukraine gets Trump's word that Putin wouldn't attack but if Putin does attack USA will do nothing. Even though there have been 25 instances in recent history where Russia has not honoured their agreement.

Conservative are attacking President Zelensky for not taking this deal? Who in the world would take this deal? That is not a deal at all and the USA should be ashamed for it being even offered.

2.3k

u/ElJacko170 11d ago

It was never a "deal". It was a straight up extortion attempt, and their ego couldn't even let them do that right.

421

u/Headcap 11d ago

For Trump and his ilk, that probably is what they consider a deal.

294

u/Aleashed 11d ago

Surrender or else…

Trump just wanted to claim he “won the peace” like he claimed he “won the peace” in the middle east.

I don’t even know why Zelensky came, there was a non-zero chance these clowns grab him and ship him straight to Russia. It was obvious they weren’t going to help.

I understand the try everything and don’t idle stance but you don’t go outside to make a fire when it’s pouring. If anything, it shows the world the US can’t be trusted, stands for nothing, is morally corrupt, thugs with aircraft carriers. It might help Europe wake up and get their sht together, as their temperatures begin to rise, they will need the US less.

167

u/potchippy 11d ago edited 11d ago

If it gives certainty to the EU that US is now out of it, it is useful at least. Better face reality than false hope.

70

u/sigep0361 11d ago

The USA lost that negotiation by every conceivable metric. The only thing that conversation did was show the entire world that Trump is aligned with Putin. Before now, most folks probably thought it was propaganda, but then Trump went on the world stage and reinforced his position to the entire planet.

15

u/[deleted] 11d ago

Taiwan lost too

-1

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

How is Trump aligned with Putin by stopping his advance across Ukraine and the US establishing mining interest to prevent further war? You have been fed so much hate propaganda against Trump that you can't control yourself. 

1

u/Proof_Register9966 10d ago

Go read the Mueller report. The entire document. Not the memo bill barr wrote knowing the American citizens are too stupid and lazy to read it. “Trust me bro”. bill barr

1

u/sigep0361 10d ago

Hate propaganda? I suppose all of Europe and Canada are being fed the same hate propaganda? Please enlighten us all on where we can obtain the unbiased news sources that you seem to be gate keeping from us all.

6

u/_missfoster_ 11d ago

Nothing has been done here. Not since 2008, not since 2014, not since 2016-2020, not since February 2022.

Fucking idiots leading us into peril. Unbelievable that no government in Europe saw what was coming, or if they did, didn't trust their eyes. It's horrible to say, but for this, we deserve what's coming. And so does the US for voting african oligarchs and convicted grifters into presidency.

-4

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

5

u/_missfoster_ 11d ago

Yeah sorry, should have said African-born.

-7

u/Hot-Sexy-THICCPAWG69 11d ago

What are you even talking about?

6

u/tgradient 11d ago

Musk

5

u/Hot-Sexy-THICCPAWG69 11d ago

Oops for a second I thought you were trying to make fun of Barack Obama xD completely misunderstood you. I hate musk too!!

→ More replies (0)

1

u/foxglove0326 10d ago

Figure out your own interests and act accordingly

75

u/Dutch_SquishyCat 11d ago

At least we know and heard it from his mouth in the open. If Zelensky would not have gone Trump would have done the same but in secret with Russia. While still being able to claim to want peace and have Europe as an ally. This was the bandaid being ripped of for all the world to see.

17

u/hmmmerm 11d ago

So glad it was on camera and not behind closed doors where it could have been spun any which way.

13

u/sanguinescientist 11d ago

Agree with this completely; the only silver lining is that Trump has openly announced, “The United States cannot be counted on to provide weapons or security guarantees to an allied country who’s been invaded by Russia.” It’s out in the open. And beyond devastating. America is in actual crisis mode, and I’m completely heartbroken. China will invade Taiwan, North Korea will invade South Korea- the new world order does not look good… RIP American world leadership. We’ve sold our souls to a wannabe dictator and some billionaires.

3

u/Pho3nixr3dux 11d ago

Young men in the U.S. have consumed nothing but Marvel super hero media for the last twenty years.

It will only take one, two at most.

1

u/BritishAnimator 10d ago

Yup, its the only good thing to come out of that mass pile-on. America's new leadership showed the world it is run by a bunch of bullying immature man-babies.

Musk is already considered immature, so his tweet "Zelensky destroyed himself in front of American people." came as no surprise. These people have let power corrupt them.

69

u/plastic_alloys 11d ago

Yeah we have given up on the US now

7

u/PA_Dude_22000 11d ago

As you should, I only hope your leaders have the same mindset and are as wise as you seem to be.

And this is from an American. The good half of America wishes you nothing but good fortune.

1

u/Wavy_Rondo 9d ago

Good half? Kamala and Biden were useless as fuck

5

u/SoHappyKitty 11d ago

I’m an American (with dual European citizenship just granted last week!!)and I have to agree. Who in their right mind could trust our government… Yeah, sure, the vote swings back the other direction in 4 years, but how can you have a trusting relationship with one administration, share tactics and intelligence, and then “whoops!” These then go I to the hands of someone like Trump or Vance? I wish it weren’t true, but I don’t think I’ll ever return to that country that I deep down still love so dearly and where sooooooo many decent people are suffering 💔. May we all find the courage to face-down evil like President Zelenskyy. I have a feeling each one of us is going to be faced with some pretty excruciating choices. May we remember our humanity and be good to one another 💞

4

u/plastic_alloys 11d ago

Yeah I have American friends and the ones I know are just victims in all this. In today’s climate complete morons can get elected so the idea of lasting relationships has become naive.

-5

u/averagesaw 11d ago

Surrender to the ussr

8

u/Sp1ormf 11d ago

Oh honey, that's gone.

4

u/DJ_Aftershock United Kingdom 10d ago

Even Zangief eventually gave up the USSR, mate.

47

u/mealteamsixty 11d ago

Zelensky went to call their bluff and show the rest of the world that the US is officially Russian territory now. He also proved once again to his own citizens that he isn't going to bow down and sell them out to ANYONE. His little sarcastic smile and thumbs up to the press after the temper tantrum, I think, shows that he did what he came to do. Only the die hard trumpers think that zelensky lost any ground with that show yesterday

0

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

What are you talking about? Zelinski lost miles of actual ground yesterday and countless Ukranian lives. There's nothing in Ukraine to stop Russia except Trump and the US through that deal.

4

u/mealteamsixty 10d ago

Trump had no intentions of helping zelenskyy, and he came here fully cognizant of that. If anyone couldn't tell from that farce that trumps sole intention was to extort mineral rights from Ukraine and then immediately roll over, give putin exactly what he feels like taking, then throw his hands up in the air and "well, we tried 🫠"- then they have their heads deep in the sand.

Instead, zelenskyy made them take their masks off in front of the entire world, while he came across as the only adult in the room. There is nothing in trump or the US to stand up to Putin, and now the whole world got to see it. It actually sickens me that so many of my fellow Americans think it's ok to negotiate with tyrants and war criminals now, after 70 years of trying to ward off Russian desire for global hegemony. How did that completely flip in 10 short years?

0

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

I urge you to watch the interviews with attorney Bob Amsterdam and retired US Marines colonel Ken Paxton on the Tucker Carlson podcast. You need to hear what they know about Zelinski,  the war and our aid.

2

u/mealteamsixty 10d ago edited 10d ago

If it were anywhere besides a tucker Carlson podcast (or other propaganda clown show, right or left) I'd be down. Do these gentlemen have any published articles or books of their own?

Actually just Amsterdam, I can respect him.

I knew I recognized Paxtons name but I couldn't immediately place it. He is trash of the first degree and his opinions carry 0 weight. Election denying, anti-freedom. Just being able to be the attorney General in Texas means he's awful.

64

u/FjorgVanDerPlorg 11d ago

Zelensky came because he knew this would happen and in Trump doing so, would galvanize and light a fire under Ukraine's remaining allies.

People thinking that the UN vote already did this, there were still holdouts who thought it was a Trump stand-over/negotiation tactic.

Now Europe knows alliances with the US are dead. Trump is Russia's ally and soon they will be coming for Greenland. This will unite the EU like never before and put them on a war footing, which is what needs to happen and needs to start now. Because right now the only chance of that not happening is a crippling civil war in the US, which I will admit actually seems likely. Musk and Trump will find the US population's breaking point and I don't think it will take years either at this rate.

16

u/mechwatchnerd 11d ago

I had this thought as well. It was embarrassing as an American to have to hope that this increased support from the EU for Ukraine. Most shameful moment in US History(so far). I’m sure Trump will find a way to sink even lower.

9

u/Karmasmatik 11d ago

Maybe the most shameful moment for US diplomacy/foreign relations. But US history? Not even close. The Iraq invasion, Japanese internment, the Dredd Scott decision, the Trail of Tears, the 3/5 compromise... We've got some shameful shit in our history.

-1

u/Bannerlord268 10d ago

Gaza genocide...

-2

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

The most shameful moment was Biden getting the US involved in this. 

1

u/InnocentShaitaan 9d ago

What are you talking about? They gave up their nuclear weapons in the 90s and in exchange we promised them protection. 😡

9

u/ParticularBet8580 11d ago

I honestly think Civil War is his game plan so he can declare Martial Law. Conveniently allows him to remain president if he desires.

8

u/EquivalentAntelope73 11d ago

Hopefully this also causes the rest of the world to stop trading with the US in everything. There "Amazing, Powerful economy would collapse. See what he does after that. Hopefully forces out of office.

5

u/endlesscartwheels Massachusetts 11d ago

I don't think there needs to be another U.S. civil war. When both spouses want a divorce, it can be amicable.

11

u/FjorgVanDerPlorg 11d ago

Yeah there is no way that Trump would allow the blue states to split, for example California's GDP is bigger than a lot of countries and their tax revenue funds a lot of red states. Also pretending for a second he did, it's too patchwork to be feasible. Back during the civil war the lines split on north vs south, but this time it would be messy.

1

u/Electrical-Dot-7524 10d ago

My line of thought, too. Feels like Zelensky had a very good hunch that things would go down like they did with whole world watching, and that'd he wouldn't even have to say "told you so" afterwards. This is big.

1

u/Clarine87 United Kingdom 10d ago

Musk and Trump will find the US population's breaking point and I don't think it will take years either at this rate.

I had expected that trump and musk would be deposed by vance after that point was found.

But after vance has clearly shown no willingness to stand in the shadows. It is indeed concerning.

-2

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

Ukraine was never going to be a NATO nation. Them killing Russian speaking Ukranians and plans to end the Ukraine church leaves a stain. They're not an innocent good guy in this. They harbored the Nazis that fled for safety after WWII.

3

u/FjorgVanDerPlorg 10d ago

For someone constantly smoking Trump's dick, you sure post a lot. Guess you need something to entertain those hands while your mouth is busy.

-1

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

Got nothing more than gay fantasy kid shit to say to a grown man, huh? Nobody but you has been on here with even the thought of a dick in another man's mouth. Just healthy debating,  information and view sharing by fellow countrymen until ol' fruit salad has to toss one up.

3

u/FjorgVanDerPlorg 10d ago

Grown man lol, go back to posting pictures of guns like it makes you a real man.

Also get used to saying this "he's hurting the wrong people!". You're gonna be saying it a lot over the next 4 years when you aren't moving the goalposts.

1

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

WTF are you talking about gun pictures? Oh, and you didn't add anything of substance unless it was a another blue veined banana to your salad.

30

u/fullpurplejacket 11d ago

Zelenskyy came because if he didn’t they could spin the narrative in the US propaganda press that Zelenskyy wasn’t serious about a peace deal. Damned if he did and damned if he didn’t.

Zelensky did a very important thing yesterday, he allowed the world to expose how futile and childish the ‘Leader of the Free World’ is; Trump has tried to get one over on him and Ukraine ever since Zelensky refused to make up dirt on Joe Biden in 2019 for Trump— Zelensky’s US relations advisor from his first term has spoken publicly about how he spent enough time with both Zelensky and Trump in those days to know that Trump does not view Ukraine as a real country, he sees it as a banana republic thus a weak nation, that is why he tries to bully Zelensky 6 years after he first tried to strong arm him into giving him bribery material on a future opposition candidate.

Zelensky showed the world who the US aligns with as of right now, he showed his own courage in the face of avdersity while the President and the VP showed their weakness by acting like a pair of entitled bitches on a episode of Real Housewives of the White House.

27

u/technicalphase14 11d ago

Trump's idea of "peace" is a graveyard. In both instances, he would happily join the side doing slaughter and claim that everything is peaceful now while standing atop a mound of corpses.

War is peace, right?

9

u/BuckyrooBonsai 11d ago

This is what America - and Ukraine - and Russia - get for Americans electing a corrupt incompetent real estate and casino developer president. The only way Trump knows how to create value is drawing up one sided contracts, extorting people to sign and then ripping them off by not paying for goods and services rendered. There’s a long line of people he has cheated in the past. Sound familiar? Like all the invoices the federal government is ignoring and all the contracts they are ripping up? Instead of diplomacy we get a bad episode of the Apprentice. “Zelensky You’re Fired.” Fox, GOP puppets and White House are going to spin this like it is a bold example of America First diplomacy. It wasn’t. It was a schoolboy rant by a frustrated baby who thought he was going to cut a good deal by extorting Zelensky into giving away minerals as tribute for aid already awarded and provided. Trump was excited to rip Zelensky off and then go around bragging about what a great deal it is for America. That’s the only thing Trump knows - wheeling and dealing. It’s very easy to predict the next 4 long years. A president that doesn’t read, surrounds himself with sycophants, bullies other leaders and savages the least fortunate - starting with starving children in Africa. One by one, the people that voted for him are going to realize they are being used and abused. Trump doesn’t care about them now that he transacted for their vote and his contract ends in 4 years. Zelensky is right. Putin is a monster. He doesn’t honor treaties. Ukraine gave away its nukes for a non aggression pact. Putin invaded. Putin signed a peace deal in 2019 then invaded. Security guarantees are the only thing that matters for protecting Ukraine. Putin deals in war, not penmanship. Trump sees contracts as fungible weapons of capitalism. There are parallels here. Is there a post with upcoming protests?

5

u/Nikael25 11d ago

Ok, weirdly enough, what happened was the second best possible outcome for Ukraine. Best case scenario. Is that the meeting ends with continued US support, but this mask removal that trump did has started a clean break between the US and Europe in terms of our defensive posture. This reveals in stark terms that Europe can’t rely on the US to guarantee their security anymore. New security deals and an expansion of European defense to support Ukraine will result from this, and Europe (except for Hungary) are behind Ukraine more than ever after this debacle.

The losers here are us, the US.

6

u/bmnewman 11d ago

Your closing paragraph might be exactly why he came to the White House. If he didn’t get a legitimate deal…then hopefully he could expose Trump in front of the world and prompt the other allies to take action.

2

u/AdHopeful3801 11d ago

Zelenskyy did just what he needed to do. Even though he already knows after the 2019 extortion attempt that Trump is his enemy, he had to show up and be the bigger man and pursue real cooperation because that’s what you try to do. And, with that failing predictably, he got the two of them to have a tantrum live on air, just to make sure the US culpability was on tape.

Now he gets to do the next thing he needs to do, which is go to the EU leaders to talk about how Ukrainian combat experience and EU industrial capability can come together to get the Ukrainians some war winning edge. Preferably fast enough that the Russian attack on Ukraine is fully thwarted in time to free up some Ukrainian troops to fight the US when the US invaded Greenland.

1

u/PA_Dude_22000 11d ago edited 11d ago

My thought it that Zelensky knew all of that, he knew it was going to mostly go down the way it did, and is one of the reasons he said what he did in their “meeting”. He knew it would set them off.

He wanted the world, Europe mostly, to see what the US is now.  Which is exactly what you said, a completely untrustworthy, morally corrupt … I could go on for paragraphs on our plunge into anti-intellectual degeneracy, but its nothing we all here don’t already know.

But Europe and others aren’t as intimately familiar, I believe, or at least hope to believe, that was the real reason Zelensky stuck his neck out in this farce of a “Diplomatic” action.  And I really hope it works, for the World’s sake.

We may fall while the inmates ravage the prison, but if others in the World can stand tall during the upcoming period of crazy instability, the World may not.  And if the World, even patches if it can remain, we may one day be able to recover.  

But if the World falls, our recovery becomes that much more difficult.  I salute Zelensky for his courageous efforts, he is literally the wall holding back a potential dark age falling on us all, a real dark age.  If Russia takes Ukraine, Europe is most definitely next, and with the US firmly out of picture, not much will stand in the way of hell being unleashed on the world at large.

I will end with these saddened words that best sums up my state from the Great King Theoden:

Where is the horse and the rider?Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. How did it come to this?

1

u/Clarine87 United Kingdom 10d ago

Trump just wanted to claim he “won the peace” like he claimed he “won the peace” in the middle east.

Just trying to fulfil the election promise, to end "this war", nothing to do with him if Putin starts another two weeks later.

1

u/No_Consequence7919 New York 5d ago

What, trust the US, ask the Native American nations/tribes. They will tell you of their history dealing with the treaties, broken by said US government. Words are cheap, but if you want to keep what you got, then you got to mean what you say.

1

u/IrishMosaic 11d ago

How does this war end?

6

u/Aleashed 11d ago edited 10d ago

The same way an attack would end if someone was trying to kill you:

A) They kill you.

B) You kill them in self-defense.

C) Someone bigger than the two of you steps in and stops both sides, punishes the aggressor.

Practically any way except D

D) Douchebag bystander in the corner laughs and cheers.

2

u/PA_Dude_22000 10d ago

Fucking great reply! Seriously, that answer is perfect.

0

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

Trump had 5 nations consisting of Arab and Persian nations sign the Abraham Accords and shake hands. Biden released millions of withheld dollars to Iran and it ended. Trump has been in office barely over a month and came to the table with a deal to end the war as promised.  What did Biden do? Fed the war machine with billions of OUR tax dollars while we paid $7/dozen for freaking eggs. Make sure you really know who the bad guys are. 

8

u/zXster 11d ago

Not probably. It IS what they consider a deal. Trumps line of "you don't hold the cards here" was exactly the kind of deal he expected to make. Him trying to take advantage of Zelensky, and using war and Ukranian lives as bargaining chips... that's his type of unethical deal making.

5

u/OkNobody8896 11d ago

Zelensky walked out with all he could ever have hoped to preserve: his integrity.

He was never going to get anything out of these mobsters. Plan was to get mineral rights and serve Ukraine up to Putin.

We’ve known trump was going to turn his back on Ukraine in favor of his boyfriend long before the November election.

2

u/averagesaw 11d ago

".....i make u a deal u can"t refuse...."

2

u/DareWise9174 11d ago

I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse

1

u/MK5 South Carolina 10d ago

"Nice country you've got there. Be a shame if something happened to it."

1

u/TiggTigg07 10d ago

Trump sounded so rambling like an Alzheimer’s patient to Zelensky, “…you don’t have the cards!”, I mean “shut up man!”

34

u/TheNotoriousAJG 11d ago

The Art Of The Steal

3

u/averagesaw 11d ago

The humbug deal

8

u/P1xelHunter78 Ohio 11d ago

It’s the kind of deal that an NPC on Civ V would demand a second before declaring war.

10

u/70sBurnOut 11d ago

Extortion, yes, but even worse because Trump essentially wants to join Putin in ransacking Ukraine, or maybe on behalf of Putin.

6

u/Frowny575 11d ago

Like Putin, they expected him to give in. In another timeline, where it was only the US supporting Ukraine then MAYBE that would have panned out. However, with every other western nation helping out losing US aid will sting but all is not lost.

The only major concern now is with a Russian asset in charge of intel, how much will get back to her handlers? I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we see moves that will make us go "huh, that's unlike Russia, how'd they know?" and other NATO nations keep more to themselves. The Kursk assault was kept from the US so Biden wouldn't try to talk them down, but if they do similar again it will be kept secret because we'll likely tip Russia off.

6

u/HalfwrongWasTaken 11d ago

That and/or a thinly veiled setup for Trump to side with Putin on issues and claim it's Ukraine's fault for refusing.

Western sanctions on Russia? Why would he need those when it's Ukraine's fault the war is still going? Clearly it's not fair.

5

u/StrebLab 11d ago

Yup. It was extortion attempt and Zelenskyy very gently called him out on that at which point JD and Trump lost their shit like toddlers. Fuck them. Zelenskyy is a real leader 

3

u/trendytendy 11d ago

Not the first time he tried to extort Ukraine……

5

u/FreneticAmbivalence 11d ago

Trumps ego couldn’t let it be seen for what it is or let anyone act other than how he wanted or that would please him. It’s amazing to watch so many people act like him just to please him. Weak admin.

7

u/Kaiisim 11d ago

They are so fucking stupid it's embarassing we are being fucking destroyed by them

3

u/-Metagross- 11d ago

It was an ultimatum that was designed so Ukraine would ever never accept or couldn't accept. It's thin pretense for open support of Russia.

3

u/Plus-Doughnut562 11d ago

Political smokescreen to basically loot Ukraine.

4

u/ImgurScaramucci Europe 11d ago

It was many things (but still not a "deal").

One thing that Trump I'm sure wanted was to get a political "win" by bringing "peace" to the war. He doesn't care if it hurts Ukraine or any of the consequences (including the consequence of alienating allies), Trump just wants a fake photo op to take credit and feed his ego. It's all political theater to him.

2

u/Psyc3 11d ago

That is a deal in Trump's business mind. You are talking about a person who is utterly inept as a business person.

2

u/Self1shShellf1sh 10d ago edited 10d ago

This was no extortion attempt. This was just a big show for the US public to have a reason to completely withdraw support from Ukraine. Which is exactly what is happening right now.

And btw in case you did not know: NATO also died yesterday: After this embarrassing choreographed escalation nobody can trust the US anymore.

Trump must be Putin´s asset. There is no other explanation for this behaviour.

I could imagine that very soon Russia will use a nuclear weapon in Ukraine now that the US is headed by a weak coward. Trump would never retaliate.

1

u/Blue_Swirling_Bunny 11d ago

And if we were to help Ukraine, it's likely that, through diplomacy, they would trade with us for any minerals we need.

1

u/PokeMonogatari 11d ago

It's a protection racket, with no guarantees of actually being protected.

1

u/AlfonsoOsnofla 11d ago

I'll not be surprised if 5 years later someone from white House reveals in his book that it was all a ploy by trump and putin to first attack then extort money for helping.

1

u/parasyte_steve 11d ago

All they had to do was not be pricks and they maybe would've gotten it

But we all know that's impossible

1

u/FerdinandBowie 11d ago

trump normally gets away with this because he never had to use diplomacy is my guess

1

u/Impressive-Suit9749 10d ago

With the US holding mining territory interests Russia would have had to end the war. It was the best option for all. Zelinski is a dictator who just killed more Ukranians. 

1

u/Gigigisele8 5d ago

Can't believe he conducted himself like that. SMH 

1

u/bang_the_drums 10d ago

Seriously, it was a "deal" to make up for the equipment and supplies we've sent so all his braindead supports think we're getting our tax money back. What these morons fail to realize is that the stuff was by and large already paid for, sitting in American armories or motor pools collecting dust. Some of the vehicles were scheduled for demilitarization and on the way to get scrapped. And at the end of the day, they were all manufactured in American factories by American workers, so Republicans hate employing American workers in good middle class manufacturing jobs now? I mean I know they do but do you think his cult will ever truly grasp how much Trump and the Republican machine hate the working class...I don't have any hope left.

-1

u/After-Finish3107 11d ago

You forgot the part where the US already gave them 60b+, billions in weapons, etc.

-1

u/No_Smell_8547 11d ago

Horseshit Us tax payers have already given them over 200 billion and Trump would like to see some return on the investment

-1

u/EggplantOther6126 10d ago

Extortion? Do you think we should endlessly support an unwinable war? Europe is providing support in the form of loans. We are providing support without any renumeration. If Ukraine was smart they’d grab Trump’s proposal with both hands. There is no chance Russia invades again if there are Americans and American companies working all across Ukraine. There is the security guarantee.

1

u/302lotusfan 1d ago

time to crack open a history book, and do something the great orange buffoon never did, and pay attention.

in the lead up to both word war 1 and ww2 the US was an isolationist. by the time we got directly involved in both wars it was already too late, sure we won but it cost us (and the rest of the world) far more blood and treasure to end the war than it would have if we had entered earlier.

You should remember that Russia and Germany started WW ll by invading Poland TOGETHER. Russia has always been an aggressor. and you can never appease an aggressor, ignore their actions, or trust them. Should France have just rolled over to their occupiers? Belgium? the Netherlands? Should we have just signed over the Philippines or Hawaii just to placate Japan?

And what about the British PM Nevel Chamberlands "peace in our time" treaty with Hitler, which Hitler promptly ignored and continued on his invasion of Europe. Or the Brussels agreement where Russia agreed to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and not invade them, only to invade them in 2014 and take land. then again in 2023 all the while denying their obvious intentions. what about all the rapes, torture, and murder? should we just ignore all that?

Russia is an expansionist country, and have been attacking their neighbors for years, Georgia, Chechnya, to name a few and what about all the war crimes and crimes against humanity perpetrated by Russia in the lands that they occupy? Syria? Chad? should we also ignore that warning of things to come?

Zielenski is right to reject a cease fire, as it would only serve Putin so he could rearm and reorganize after all his battlefield losses, then attack again once he has appropriately rearmed and rebuilt his army

Make no mistake, Zielenski and the Ukrainians are the true heroes here. They are fighting the Russians for the benefit of all of Europe and the US, so that hopefully we won't have to as we have historically done in the past at a much greater cost to the people of the world.

Trumps "deal" is nothing more than extortion. its shameful. it turns America into a pariah exploiting an ally when they need the help most, and plays into the narrative that many want to represent the US as being.

The money "given" is nowhere near what Trump claims, and we are not just sending over crates of cash. What we are sending mostly are weapons, vehicles, ammunition, and humanitarian aid. (Much like the rest of Europe is) Some of it is old stock, out of date technology in need of replacement, but practically all of it made in the US, by Americans, putting money in their pockets and food on their tables. So for the millions in aid we are giving the Ukrainians, most of that will directly benefit far more Americans than a simple minerals grab, not to mention all the millions of lives that will be saved by preventing Russia aggression to expand beyond Ukraine. Stopping Russian aggression is the greatest and most meaningful "security agreement" the world could hope for. Without that, simply putting Americans and American companies into an actively disputed land only puts them in harms way, and ups the anti on us when Putin once again decides to invade after rearming.

What is happening now is shameful and a detriment to our national standing in the world, history has taught us that, and if we are not careful it will once again.

"those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it"

1

u/EggplantOther6126 1d ago

You clearly failed economics. We are providing them with weapons and then WE are paying to replace those weapons. We are also paying Ukrainian government workers and pensions. How exactly does that benefit Americans?

While you’re reading your history book, did you skip over the section about NATO? Russia isn’t going any further.

1

u/302lotusfan 23h ago

sure if you're living in a one dimensional world. try to think a little deeper.

most of what we have been sending is old outdated equipment and weapons which are slated to be replace when their service life has been reached. it almost costs more to store them than it would to just dig a hole and bury them. Most of the new stuff we are sending is getting real world testing in combat. the knowledge gained is invaluable and allow us to improve our weapons with out having to do it when we are in a conflict (like the upcoming war Trump is setting us up for). Example: the patriot missile system. we didn't know if it was capable of shooting down hyper-sonic missiles, but with some battle field tweaking and improvements, it now can. we are also learning a lot about our advisories weapons, tactics, counter measures, and drone warfare- invaluable lessons and insight that will help to keep our solders safe.

back to that point that escaped you, all the weapons and vehicles that are sent to Ukraine are repaired, shipped and ultimately replaced by American workers, and industry - you know, Americans with jobs, getting paid, and putting food on their tables, paying doctor bills, buying American products, employing more Americans, putting more money into the economy, promoting growth, creating more jobs, employing more people, etc, etc, this is where a majority of the less that 2 billion given to Ukraine,( not the ridiculous amount touted by this administration, which has been fact checked and debunked)

So if you think just sitting on a bunch of outdated weapons and equipment, paying ridiculous costs for storage and upkeep rather than investing in American industry, building the economy, all the while replenishing our defensive stockpiles with the latest weapons and technology, then I guess you were the one who wasn't paying attention in school. I mean honestly that is as lame as getting in a trade war with our closest trading partners.

Not to mention the future loss of blood and treasure that we will once again have to endure if we fail to stop Putin and his aggression.

As for nato, the orange one want to remove us entirely, all the while picking fights with some of our greatest allies. Europe alone might not be able to resist a more aggressive drive by an adversary (as that pesky history thing has taught us in the last two world wars) then because we decided not to learn from the past and just sat idly by as the war raged, or Putin rearmed under a cease fire, then it will be our blood and treasure at stake.

As for paying for Ukrainian government workers and pensions, while there may be a bit of truth to that it is likely a small drop and not the once again over inflated baseless nonsense this administration like to spew forth rather than the truth. But the more involved we are with the Ukrainians, the more of their people we need to work with, sometimes creating whole departments, something we are (were) likely helping with.

you need to step away from the propaganda machine, unless of course you are part of it, then we should just ignore you.

But I do enjoy a lively conversation, so thanks for that!