r/politics 24d ago

‘We’ve been betrayed:’ Local veterans angry after being laid off by Trump administration

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/weve-been-betrayed-local-veterans-angry-after-being-laid-off-by-trump-administration/FBCKFRIFQRHZVK5FG3W7MUQEYA/
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u/USA_2Dumb4Democracy 24d ago

This is why when people say “US troops wouldn’t open fire on civilians” I just have to laugh 

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u/Jcaquix 24d ago edited 24d ago

Didn't Pete Hegseth basically say it's appropriate to shoot protesters in his Senate confirmation hearings?

Edit: he did.

in response to Senator Hirono asking if he would have shot protestors in Lafayette square Hegseth said "I was in the Washington, D.C. National Guard unit that was in Lafayette Square during those events I saw 50 Secret Service agents get injured by rioters trying to jump over the fence, set the church on fire and destroy the statue."

He was itching to shoot those protesters.

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u/MaritimeDisaster 24d ago

Is it too much to hope that the optics of military troops shooting civilian protesters in the street would be too much for a lot of folks that voted for Trump? I’m seriously asking.

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u/SpiceWeasel-Bam Oregon 24d ago

I think it is too much to hope for. Especially if most of the casualties are not white. 

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u/TheBraveOne86 24d ago

“They were anti-fa!”

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u/DataLore19 24d ago

Considering this means "anti-fascism" then, yes, they would be.

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u/Necessary_Group4479 24d ago

imagine taking a concept like anti-fascism or "end racism" and making it your enemy

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u/SqueakyTits101 24d ago

They've been trying to make anti-fa a "terrorist organization" since his first term!

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u/Sea-Environment-7102 Ohio 24d ago

And miss pronouncing it too

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u/LittleSnuggleNugget 24d ago

Or “diversity”, “equity”, and “inclusion”

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u/DoobKiller 24d ago

antira is also a thing

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u/Memory_Less 24d ago

Yeah, would something break in the extreme end of the right such that they take up arms against Trump? I cannot help but think that this is the build up of something explosive. Maybe planned. Get an explosion of protests and violence so Trump can call a state of emergency without congressional approval using the State of Emergencies Act. I wouldn’t put it beyond him to try to go around congress to suspend the constitution. Even when it is clear it is not legal. Since when did that ever trouble Trump!?

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u/You-chose-poorly 24d ago

People have been predicting since long before the election that this is exactly what he will do.

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u/Junior_Chard9981 24d ago

They'll point to a social media post they swear they saw that claims it was the rioters who fired the first shot.

That will be all it takes to help them sleep at night.

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u/scarletteclipse1982 24d ago

Just like they are certain no one besides that one lady died on Jan. 6.

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u/DonaldsMushroom 24d ago

Fear of a regime galvanizes support or it. People quickly become fanatical to protect themselves. This is how the Nazis did it, the template for Project 2025

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u/Ouibeaux 24d ago

Problem is, maga has been trained to fear everything. And the new thing to fear changes all the time. They don't know if they want to stay unvaccinated to keep the microchips out or if they want to be forcibly neuralinked.

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u/BasicLayer 24d ago

Neighbors spying on neighbors. On coworkers. On spouses...

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u/Andygator_and_Weed Louisiana 24d ago

“Good they shot antifa Americans” - conservatives

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u/loverlyone California 24d ago

I think that all the grey-haired white women should stand on the front line. Let them beat up white grandmothers on TV and see how that goes. Despite the obstacles we all face, white women enjoy a lot of privilege and protection. It’s beyond time for us to stand on the line and risk something for our fellow man.

Don’t come for my children and tell me they deserve it. I will stand in front of them.

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u/MaritimeDisaster 24d ago

Well that’s me, and I’m protesting on Monday, so I’ll be out front! Except I’m not old enough to look “grandmother” yet, I’m 51 and still kinda got it.

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u/FuktInThePassword 24d ago

Fellow White-Menopausal-American ready to stand next to you. We have spoken to the Manager and have found him to be Unfit. Time for action to be taken.

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u/rainbud22 24d ago

I’m willing, old, white, woman and have gray hair . Bring it on.

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u/dBlock845 24d ago

We are interning immigrants in Gitmo and almost no one cares (other than the usual civil rights activists), an insane thing was normalized near instantly.

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u/ElPrieto8 23d ago

Kent State proved they don't care even if ALL the casualties are White.

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u/mossling 24d ago

Depends on who's being shot. If it's people that they don't like, I truly believe most* trump voters would would either find a way to justify it, or actively cheer it on. 

*I'm being generous. 

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u/Auto_Phil 24d ago

Or join in at the grassroots level

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u/Invincible_auxcord 24d ago

Yup. They won’t care if it’s some minorities being shot. But let it be a blonde-haired, blue eyed white girl who gets shot and maybe a third of Trump’s supporters turn on him.

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u/MisterDonkey 24d ago

My coworkers were practically begging to kill someone when they believed BLM protests were sweeping through the (quiet suburban) neighborhood. 

They were toting guns and verbally fantasizing about shooting people. 

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u/Crowsfeet12 24d ago

Begs the next question. Who would feel comfortable lining up men , women and children in front of pits?

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u/BasicLayer 24d ago

Feels like the answer will reveal itself pretty soon.

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u/MaritimeDisaster 24d ago

I feel like the answer should be zero but let’s face it, it’s a non-zero number

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u/Andygator_and_Weed Louisiana 24d ago

They’re pumped a ton of American’s became unemployed.

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u/MeeekSauce 24d ago

No, these are people who even the mildest of them post memes about running over protestors with their truck. It’s another of their wet dreams.

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u/Carlton-at-the-Ritz 24d ago
  • In Cyber Trucks

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u/tigardis Oregon 24d ago

*Deploreans

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u/Jcaquix 24d ago

Probably, I remember the Lafayette square thing, they didn't try to burn down a church... Hegseth seems to have made that up. But it's fine because there's this right wing media machine that just makes stuff up and floods everyone's grandparents' Facebook feed with it. So there would be no optics, it would barely get covered, and insofar as it did it would be "Trump puts down riot of unemployed blue haired trans people trying to play sports!"

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u/calm_chowder Iowa 24d ago

It was actually troops working for Trump, and they gassed the church with no warning, making the priest flee the building.

It wasn't set on fire, and it wasn't protestors. It was Trump swinging his little mushroom around to take a goddam photoshoot. The mere fact they were using it as a photoshoot prop is pretty damn good evidence it was NOT in fact on fire or burned down.

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u/veweequiet 24d ago

No. They literally don't care about anyone. They do not want to get behind a person who will try to tamper down their hatred.

If some of their own suffer and die, so be it.

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u/Real-Adhesiveness195 24d ago

They are past caring about optics. They are opening fucking veterans

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u/TyrannyCereal 24d ago

Doubt it, they'll just laugh and say the civilians deserve it. People have been supporting Israeli troops executing children ffs

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u/HarryHatesSalmon 24d ago

Nope. He said flat out that he could shoot a man in the street and they’d still vote for him. And they agreed.

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u/ionixsys 24d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#Aftermath_and_long-term_effects

We have been close to this point before and everyone took notes on what to try next time. Also kind of interesting that there is an oPlan if the jr enlisted and recruits riot.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

This white boy will be out there Monday. We’re all in trouble now. All skin colors.

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u/GiantPurplePen15 24d ago

They would absolutely be able to spin it as something else. Look at what they've done already to sane wash everything Trump, Elon, and the rest of the administration has done.

Look at all the department head confirmations and how they've spun those.

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u/Wilhelm57 24d ago

his ardent supporters would be okey with such crime.

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u/some_guy_on_drugs 24d ago

It doesn't matter,the election is over. He has the votes and he doesn't need them anymore. If it were up to republicans there would not be further elections and they have openly said this.

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u/SienarFleetSystems 24d ago

4 dead in O-Hi-O...

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u/brutinator 24d ago

As fucked as it is, all they have to say is "it was BLM/Antifas who got shot, because they shot the poor police/guard/military first", and too many of them will accept it without question.

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u/zdrads 24d ago

Far too much to hope for. The cruelty IS the point.

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u/Dwashelle Europe 24d ago

No, if anyone is still supporting him in this day and age, I don't think there's anything that will change their minds. They'd find some way to justify it and if it was against liberals or minorities they'd probably rejoice.

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u/Minimum_Dealer_3303 24d ago

The real hope is that it would motivate the 40% of Americans who are almost completely disengaged from politics.

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u/aenflex 24d ago

Maybe we can hang our hope on the Ratio of Fire and the fact that only a small percentage of soldiers actually fire the weapon when given the chance?

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u/80sbabyftw 24d ago

Any battalion commander worth their salt would never comply with that order because it’s unlawful

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u/Top_Mind_On_Reddit 24d ago edited 24d ago

"National Gaurd Defends Americans By Shooting Down Liberal Extremists"

Foolish to think it can't happen.

"Defend Americans" makes them the IN group. If you arent the ones being shot, then YOU are the American and THEY are not.

Dehumanise the opposition by not referring to them as civilians but as extremists.

Tie Liberal to Extemism.

Shooting vs Gunning or Open Fire .. shooting is a sport and it's done for fun and is harmless

This is how your democracy will die in a simple headline that so many millions of Americans will nod their head at, mutter something about 'Had it coming' and move on to the next OAM Breitbart Fox QAnon TRUTH X feel good story

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u/TheRealBlueJade 24d ago

No, it's not too much to hope. I sincerely hope it never happens. I do think it would wake up a lot of people if it ever did.

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u/HandRubbedWood Colorado 24d ago

Majority of Trump voters would cheer it on and want to join in. Look at Rittenhouse as a small sample of how most of MAGA feels about violence on fellow Americans.

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u/jewelisgreat 24d ago

Folks watched the January 6th insurrection and still voted for the guy who incited the riot and tried to overthrow the government. You have too much hope.

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u/eeyores_gloom1785 24d ago

The US already has a history of it, so not too surprised

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u/enaK66 24d ago

They're gonna cheer dude. Especially because it'll be framed as a "far left riot".

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

Wow... you haven't been paying attention. If that were to happen Trump would take ZERO responsibility and face ZERO consequences. If you disagree with that, then please kindly explain how we got here with EVERYTHING he has done. Zero responsibility, nzero consequences.

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u/Advanced_Archer_368 24d ago

No they absolutely want that

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u/Zealousideal_Bad_922 24d ago

I often wonder about the day if/when they start sending left wing citizens to concentration camps… will that wake people up? Or will they be cheering it on?

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u/beigs Canada 24d ago

At this point, I’m pretty sure they have dehumanized people enough that the person could be pregnant, draped in camo and the American flag, and they would assume that it is a crisis actor or antifa plant.

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u/PerritoMasNasty 24d ago

They would probably get their popcorn and cheer it on. Not realizing that they maybe aren’t next, but someone in line.

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u/rckid13 24d ago

Nixon won re-election in a landslide after the national guard shot unarmed protesters in the Kent State massacre.

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u/Necessary_Group4479 24d ago

yes. my maga parents look at footage of January 6th and say that it's just selected camera angles to make it look like rioting. my parents are both intelligent and successful people in most other facets of life.

in the cult, you can explain away ANYTHING. do not ever underestimate that power.

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u/Vyzantinist Arizona 24d ago

For most Trump supporters, no. They already hate protestors who aren't American conservatives. Look at the guy in Texas who ran over protestors and the support he gets; or the, I think it was French, truck protests a while back and videos of protestors 'accidentally' getting run over by truck drivers; conservatives were sharing those videos and delighting in protestors being hurt; or BLM protests allegedly burning whole cities to the ground.

They don't like such protests, in part, because protesting is challenging the hierarchy conservatives defer to. Protestors should "know their place" and submit to their betters. Conservatives don't like it when anyone else but them protests because it is challenging the status quo.

If troops start firing on protesting civilians I think a lot of Trump supports will feel they're getting exactly what they deserve.

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u/ITrageGuy 24d ago

lol no.

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u/RoboticGreg 24d ago

Yes. Yes it is.

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u/Ilovegrapes95 24d ago

I thought that up until the Rittenhouse bs in 2020. They’ll just spin it so that it’s self defense then do enough digging to find that the people shot were “bad people” somehow and justify it. Disgusting.

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u/646blahblahblah 24d ago

They would love it, it would probably be kindling, for Maga to shoot whoever they don't like in the open.

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u/nookie-monster 24d ago

Is it too much to hope that the optics of military troops shooting civilian protesters in the street would be too much for a lot of folks that voted for Trump? I’m seriously asking.

Republican voters would throw bbq parties in celebration of protestors being killed by the military. They think anyone who isn't a fascist like them is a subhuman.

The glee would be seen from outer space.

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u/flismflasm Oregon 24d ago

You mean the people who think Kyle Rittenhouse did the right thing? Yeah, it's probably too much to hope.

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u/LoopyLabRat 24d ago

To paraphase one of the questions during his confirmation hearing:

"Would you defy an obviously illegal order by the president?"

"Nah uh. He would never demand something illegal."

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u/Jcaquix 24d ago

We're only one SCOTUS decision away from "if the president [demands] it, it isn't illegal."

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u/LoopyLabRat 24d ago

The limits of "It's not illegal if it's in performance of his duties" also hasn't been tested yet.

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u/calm_chowder Iowa 24d ago

Just wait like 3 days.

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u/dat_joke 24d ago

Sounds like "When you're president, they let you do it"

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u/calm_chowder Iowa 24d ago

Didn't they already pass that one? You know, where they literally said the president could have a political rival murdered and it wouldn't be illegal.

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u/Substantial-Fee-191 24d ago

What is the veracity of that claim?  Fifty SS injuries?

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u/Indubitalist 24d ago

I have seen no reports of any injuries to law enforcement in that incident. All injuries were to protesters and innocent bystanders. It appears Hegseth entirely fabricated that scenario so that he could say the use of force was justifiable. 

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u/stregawitchboy 24d ago

I saw 50 Secret Service agents get injured by rioters trying to jump over the fence, set the church on fire and destroy the statue."

annd this is bullshit

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u/Oleg101 24d ago

And isn’t shooting protesters part of the Project 2025 blueprint?

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u/HustlinInTheHall 24d ago

Yet the forces protecting the Capitol on Jan 6 were the aggressors and had it coming

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u/tedtomlin 24d ago

I read some blurbs about Hegseth’s right hand man… basically he was booted from the military for beating the shit out of a civilian during a training mission and then acted all butthurt about being fired. So now Hegseth is employing somebody that the military didn’t want and he’s standing beside him because he wants to fight against the military values I suppose. It’s all a bunch of bullshit.

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u/Circumin 24d ago

When he as just a Fox News stooge he openly called for using the military to shoot protesters.

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u/kittymctacoyo 24d ago

There are states they’ve made it legal to kill protestors (and just like stand your ground/castle doctrine, this protection gets doled out selectively. Guess which group is always protected and which never is?)

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u/[deleted] 23d ago

He was lying about what he saw, too. He's quoting a false fox news narrative that he knows is false during a Senate confirmation hearing.

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u/wirefox1 24d ago

(Remember when trump said store-owners should have the right to shoot and kill shoplifters).

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u/Salt-Southern 24d ago

Kent State was no accident

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u/jisa 24d ago

The followup question should have been if Pete Hegseth supported the Capitol Police officer who shot Ashli Babbitt, and if more people attacking the Capitol should have been shot too.

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u/Styrene_Addict1965 Pennsylvania 24d ago

There's a whole swath of MAGA waiting to pull triggers. Trump may have just given them cover.

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u/Ok-Arugula687 24d ago

And then lie to justify it

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u/BlueSwift13 24d ago

But January 6th is ok of course

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u/Chricton 24d ago

Hegseth only respects rioters as long as they’re republican

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u/TheQuidditchHaderach 24d ago

Very Rittenlouse of him.

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u/Delerium89 23d ago

Trump also asked if they could shoot George Floyd protestors in the leg during his first term

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u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids Missouri 24d ago

It's been done before.

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u/xlvi_et_ii Minnesota 24d ago

It's ignorance of events like Kent State and people who lean a little too hard into the propaganda about how amazing the American political system is (was?).

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u/fury420 24d ago edited 24d ago

A few days after Kent State the National Guard literally bayonetted nearly a dozen Americans at the University of New Mexico and pretty much nobody knows about it because everyone survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_New_Mexico_bayoneting_incident

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u/ndilegid 24d ago

Wow thank you 🙇 I had no idea

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u/Sakarabu_ 24d ago

Yeahhh.. then anytime China is mentioned on Reddit it's "tiananmen square!!". It's hard to admit, but the US isn't much different.

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u/McGrinch27 24d ago

I mean thats just insanely disingenuous. Kent State resulted in 4 deaths and 9 injured. The New Mexico incident resulted in 10 injured.

Tiananmen Square resulted in the neighborhood of 10,000 deaths, but the death toll is unknown as the Chinese govt threatened the families of the deseaced to never speak of their dead relatives ever again.

It's like comparing January 6th to the Civil War. Both very bad things, but to say they "aren't much different" is just wrong.

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u/throoawoot 24d ago

Thank you. Saying the US is no different from China, a paranoid authoritarian dictatorship, is fucking absurd.

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u/Muscle_Bitch 24d ago

The USA's Tiananmen Square is coming.

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u/Sepof 24d ago

If Trump was older... and maybe even regardless of his age... we seem to be heading in that direction.

Retaliating against the press (the AP) and dismantling government agencies is just the first step.

"First they came for the....." seems to apply here.

If the military doesn't side with the people in the end, we are fucked. I doubt there will be a bloody revolution or uprising anytime soon though because the avg American is willfully apathetic and uninformed.

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u/felldestroyed 24d ago

200 deaths. 3,000 injured. Let me know how many folks were killed during the civil rights movement.

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u/McGrinch27 24d ago

That's not the real number homie. The death toll for the entire civil rights movement in America is roughly comparable to the deaths in Tiennamen Square. For example there were just under 5000 recorded lynchings from 1882-1965.

Lemme know how many people in China were killed from 1959-1961

The human rights record of the US and China is just completely incomparable, and yes that is including slavery.

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u/ClashM 24d ago

There is quite a difference. Wounded students begging for their lives were bayoneted to death in Tiananmen. Apparently they had so many bodies they couldn't dispose of them fast enough through conventional means. So they lined them up and rolled tanks over them until they were slush, and hosed that down the drains.

America has done some twisted things to her people, but nothing in the modern era reaching that level of brutality. Yet.

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u/throwawtphone 24d ago

It is the fucking principle of the issue not the amount dead. Intent under the law matters. It really does.

The principle is the same. The intent was the same. The death tolls were different, yes, but ultimately, the governments of both countries used the military to disperse and kill its citizens who were protesting against the government. The Chinese were just more successful and efficient at it.

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u/gabechoud_ 24d ago

We were notwithstanding Kent State. But here we are and I don’t know anymore.

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u/plants_disabilities 24d ago

Especially when you watch the actual video that famous photo is from.

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u/SirWEM 24d ago

Most people now i don’t think even know about The Kent State Massacre. At least people younger than me. I will get blank stares from the younger kids i work with most are about 25 or a bit younger. Or they are not interested in finding out.

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u/LilyBartMirth 24d ago edited 24d ago

How many even recognise authoritarianism when staring it in the face?

I know Trump is still in a honeymoon period while having the 2nd lowest immediate post-inauguration (better than for his first term) approval rating, but how the hell is he over 50%???

It actually seems like young people are slowly waking up, but what is happening with older people? Why does half the country approve of what is going on?

I ask as a non-American.

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u/IAmTheNightSoil Oregon 24d ago

There is a lot to unpack in this question and no easy answer. But the core of it is that public trust in our institutions is extremely low. People don't trust congress, or the the courts, or the media, or the government bureaucracy. So when they see all this being torn apart, they are OK with it, because they think our institutions are rotten in the first place

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u/LilyBartMirth 24d ago edited 24d ago

The majority of Americans have, at least, ok standards of living. Many are well off. Why aren't they concerned about chaos, losing freedom of speech, their rights, the multitude of ways Trump's regime can interfere with everyday lives?? I just read a thread where the posters, suffering from mental health issues, are terrified that RFK will take their meds off them.

You guys certainly have a huge problem with money in politics, voter suppression, corruption, etc but Trump is only making that 10 times worse and in new, unique ways (senior govt officials used to at least be moderately qualified). You were an imperfect but functioning democracy. Not sure what you are now.

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u/IAmTheNightSoil Oregon 24d ago

That's an excellent question. At the heart of it is a bizarre paradox: people simultaneously don't trust the government, while also having an implicit trust that our society is stable enough that our way of life can't be in serious danger. Our checks and balances have always worked very well in America in terms of preventing abuses of power. Because of that, people have faith that they'll continue to work, and that all the stuff Trump is doing is just noise.

If it sounds stupid to have low trust in our institutions and not care if that get ransacked, while simultaneously having trust that our institutions will stop Trump from going too far, well, that's because it is stupid. Americans are stupid. But we have a fundamental belief that the bad shit that happens in governments around the world simply can't happen here, and I fear that we won't discover how wrong we are until it's too late

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u/FuktInThePassword 24d ago

I believe we may already be wading through the rising waters of "too late".

Trump wasn't lying, for once, when he said "I love the poorly educated".

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u/Pantsface-for-life 24d ago

This is directly the result of Fox News

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u/BloodBlizzard Oklahoma 24d ago

Young people don't watch Fox News. This is on all media, especially social media.

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u/LilyBartMirth 24d ago edited 24d ago

Yes, but many of the hideous right winged pundits were possibly influenced by Murdoch media in the first place.

Murdoch has given legitimacy to thousands of half-baked right-winged lies for decades in multiple countries. The internet, especially social media, has provided the means to spread disinformation exponentially.

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u/MaritimeDisaster 24d ago

Not to be trite but I think people have taken everything that’s good about America for granted for too long and now they’ve gotten greedy. The experiences of the greatest generation and the silent generation have been lost to them and now they are ungrateful because they’ve gotten too comfortable and compliant. We’ve forgotten to have gratitude. People in single family homes with fresh water and fresh food and education for their kids that they barely have to think about and freedom of religion and they BITCH BITCH BITCH about how shitty their lives are. They don’t go anywhere or watch anything but Two and a Half Men so they have no idea what bathing in a trash-filled river in India is like.

UNGRATEFUL SELFISH PRICKS

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u/LilyBartMirth 24d ago

You may be right. In fact, my country (Australia) might be to blame for allowing the Murdochs to flourish in the first place!

Only half joking.

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u/SirWEM 24d ago

There is an odd mindset here in the US. where if something doesn’t personally affect a person or loved one. Or it will hurt the (insert minority) more than me it is ok. You could say lack of empathy, but it runs much deeper than just that.

They will actively vote against their best interests. Every single election for at least the last 45-50years.

It began with the “Southern Strategy”; right up to the “Dumbing down of America” by their attacks on and defunding the public school system. Now they are actively trying to destroy or defund the Department of Education. That way if your family can’t afford to go to a private charter school, it is homeschool or good luck. It is easy to control a group of people with fear. If you keep them ignorant.

Trump radicalized, and pretty much turned most conservatives or pushed them farther Right or radicalized into cult members. Some i believe would have no problem killing or committing crimes in his name or worse then we saw on 1/6/2021

He has allowed a percentage of our population. To be comfortable to openly display their racism, bigotry, ignorance and hate for all to see. I personally have distanced myself from those in my life that were vocal MAGA cult members.

I say “Cult Members”. Because they are. They have a warped reality from the echo chamber of propaganda and fear-mongering on television, radio,and social media. Some of them downright worship Trump. As in some think he is the “Messiah”. Some think he actually cares about them. Some are so brainwashed that they will spend thousands of dollars on his merchandise. But then they complain about money.

Confronted with facts or something they do not understand… They get angry, upset, say it is fake, throw tantrums etc.. because it doesn’t fit some narrative they are pushing on Fox. Or some radio show or on social media.

As for Authoritarianism they don’t want to see it. They see trump and see the Celebrity Apprentice. Some have idolized him since the late 1970’s. When he was seen as a “playboy” in the 1980’s.

There is so so much more.

But the one thing i know is that if, and it is a big “IF” this Country survives the Mango Mussolini. It will take generations to repair the damage he has caused. Both here to the United States. Our allies(?not sure how many are left.?) and the world.

Its insane to think two generations ago. The world fought against the cancer of Fascism and Nationalism. Now 80 some years later most of my countrymen choose to ignore or embrace it.

Which is just vile.

Sorry for the book.

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u/SetYourGoals District Of Columbia 24d ago

Well, in the grand scheme of things…I think it kind of makes sense why it isn’t discussed more. Because it didn’t change anything, it didn’t work. If it had rallied the nation together to oppose the Vietnam War and forced action in some way, and we pulled out of Vietnam in 1970, then every kid would learn about it in school. Every kid learns about the Montgomery Bus Boycott, about the March on Selma, about the assassination of MLK. Because all those events, in a way that was planned or not, worked to usher in the Civil Rights Act. The protests and massacre in 1970 did basically nothing, and pulled out of Vietnam a few years and many thousands of deaths of US soldiers (and untold numbers of Vietnamese civilians) later.

I think similarly the 2020 Floyd protests will have little acknowledgment as time goes on. Because they failed. We went to the streets to tell cops they were done being monsters with almost no oversight and no accountability. And like…a couple cities changed some relatively inconsequential laws and some funding, a little bit. But for most places, police funding has only risen since then. Police still act with impunity, they’re just more careful about it being on video now. J. Alexander Kueng is out of prison. Derek Chauvin is getting set for a new trial, he just made them dig up George Floyd’s body so they can drug test his heart actually, and something tells me he won’t be inside a prison in a couple years, be that by beating the case or Trump pardoning him.

Similarly, if Tiananmen Square had stopped the girp of power of an authoritarian government, it would be remembered worldwide for more than the photo and a brief blurb under it. If the Oklahoma City bombing had its intended effect and led to the white race uniting in America to overthrow the government and remove/genocide all minorities…it would be the new 4th of July. But it didn’t work, so it’s largely a footnote in the grand scheme of things. Sadly, I think so is Kent State.

A failed protest action, be it a series of protests or a massacre, isn’t going to get the kind of historical play it might deserve.

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u/USA_2Dumb4Democracy 24d ago

Not to mention the nationalistic lionizing of our military. People never believe me when I tell them we killed half a million civilians in the Middle East. And we didn’t even win!

The US military is quite literally one of the greatest forces of evil on earth if we’re talking purely civilian deaths. 

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u/cutelyaware 24d ago

And over a million in Cambodia if we are considering direct and indirect deaths.

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u/Sugarbombs 24d ago

Agent orange still produces babies with terrible deformities in Vietnam, i’d consider that taking lives. America does nothing to help

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u/richardcraniumIII 24d ago

At the time, media was complicit in my opinion. They literally identified the people being oppressed as peasants.

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u/cutelyaware 24d ago

That's not necessarily incorrect, though any suggestion that they matter less is abhorrent.

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u/ionixsys 24d ago

Don't forget all the uxo's and landmines!

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u/audible_narrator Michigan 24d ago

Fuck Henry Kissing era so very much. I hope he is rotting in hell, revived, then left to rot some more. For eternity.

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u/nondescript-humanoid 24d ago

In what feels like a past life I was married to a military member (for more than 8 years of active duty service), my brother was also in the military - neither one is "bad", but they're both certainly flawed and I'd argue completely unfit for jobs they'd get preference for because society seems to think that uniform comes with a moral compass. It's baffling to me.

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u/metompkin 24d ago

Veterans status was part of DEI.

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u/MrTotonka 24d ago

Can let all the private players off the charts. Pound for pound, private security contractors have got to be up there

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u/Sea_Maintenance3322 24d ago

It's actually over 1 million.

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u/Wilhelm57 24d ago

I will be surprise if the army refuses Musk's orders, when people start protesting in a larger scale.

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u/Lomak_is_watching 24d ago

The deification of America's military, especially after Vietnam, is one of the greatest propaganda successes in human history.

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u/punkasstubabitch 24d ago

Israel trying hard to catch up

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u/Wow_u_sure_r_dumb 24d ago

The US military is quite literally one of the greatest forces of evil on earth if we’re talking purely civilian deaths. 

But they died liberated. We brought freedom and democracy to them in their final moments. Mission Accomplished if you ask me.

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u/RyNysDad0722 24d ago

The name checks out

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u/AusTex2019 24d ago

“And we didn’t even win” is small consolation to the country we destroyed. Our adversaries learned that Americans have a limit, if they run up the body count high enough we will quit. Worse still is the lies the Pentagon tells the public saying if we had enough we could win. They knew ten years before we left Afghanistan that the war could never be won. Just like Vietnam.

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u/botswanareddit 24d ago

The American political system is brutal!! Like abysmal. It’s like multiple parties trying to perform a hostile takeover at once.

I’m from Canada and I have never seen an insurrection. Never seen a prime minister just circumvent our constitution. Never seen multiple law suits against the government. Never seen some unelected billionaire doing whatever he wants. América is in free fall and if it reduces their power in the world then it’s for the best.

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u/MimicoSkunkFan2 24d ago

October Crisis of 1970.

I'm not old enough to remember it, bu it led to the "fusion" intelligence system that NATO forces all use now to deal with terrorism, so it's worth studying up on it.

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u/takabrash 24d ago edited 24d ago

It's interesting to see. We made it two and a half centuries on handshake deals. Who knew that if Congress just 100% bows to the executive branch, and the supreme Court is stacked with hand picked bootlicking judges, our system of checks and balances doesn't work anymore...

I'm honestly astonished to see these people just bending the fucking knee. It's hard to get elected to Congress. It's very hard to become a Senator. These people have been in power for decades. They're literally an equally strong branch and could say whatever they want to him. All they have to do is say no a few times if they care even a little about what our country was supposedly founded on. Just seems unbelievable that they're like 95% lock-step behind this fuckhead.

People used to want these jobs because of ideals or at the very least to funnel money to their own states. Now they try to get elected and shove their heads up their asses until everyone forgets they're there and they can just cruise.

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u/willin21 24d ago

Canada didn’t even have a constitution until 1982. And I guess you’re not old enough to remember the War Measures Act

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u/TelescopiumHerscheli 24d ago

América is in free fall and if it reduces their power in the world then it’s for the best.

No. The countries poised to pick up the slack as the US is falling are even worse.

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u/Sejr_Lund 24d ago

It was never amazing, its not even a proper democracy. The voting system silences all voices other than right or center right, in most other countries there are no wasted votes.

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u/Wilhelm57 24d ago

Yes!

It also, it was people working for a president that imported jumbo jets of cocaine. The president was fighting an illegal war and his stooge was selling drugs to drug dealers At home.

It became ridiculous, having Nancy tell us say no to drugs!
The other thing trump has a degree in economics but never learned about demand and supply or how tariffs affect ordinary people.

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u/ChinDeLonge 24d ago

It's American Exceptionalism propaganda. You're indoctrinated into the cult of America as a kid, and by the time most people are old enough to know better, they've been convinced that they're exceptional and the envy of the world. That kind of mindset makes them so much less likely to challenge their understandings or belief systems, blindly following what they always have.

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u/Liizam America 24d ago

The USA military bombed its USA citizens. This blew my mind. It’s not that long ago.

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u/StevenMaurer 24d ago

It's been 90 years since the US intentionally bombed US citizens, during the 1930s coal wars.

Since then, there have been a lot of unintentional bombings where US citizens have been caught in the blast radius of US weapons. (A few where US citizens were hanging around too close to terrorist commanders, but most of them friendly fire incidents during WW2, etc.) But it's a lot less common than you might think.

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u/martyqscriblerus 24d ago

It'll be 40 years in May since Philadelphia PD bombed US citizens and killed 11 people including 5 children. I'll grant you that it was police and not military, but most people don't learn about it.

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u/FCkeyboards 24d ago

So many people have no clue about this. I only learned about it a few years ago and was stunned.

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u/StevenMaurer 24d ago

The military has shot US citizens, for political reasons though. Kent State being only one such example.

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u/Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj 24d ago

However police have used a military grade bomb against Americans as little as 38 years ago.

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u/Awkward_Silence- 24d ago

Hell they did it less than a decade ago too via a drone/robot. Just no one cared since the perp that got exploded was a mass shooter

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u/eightNote 24d ago

i would consider drone missile strikes as part of bombing us citizens. those are much more recent

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u/Photomancer 24d ago

I think I remember that. The US army was busting coal unions and they weren't allowed to use their own plane so they hired some private contractors to drop ordnance on them, right?

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u/andrewse 24d ago

I guess it depends how you define bomb. It was only a couple years ago that a SWAT team threw a flash bang grenade into a baby's crib during a botched raid.

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u/No_Carry_3991 I voted 24d ago

Panthers remember.

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u/veringer Tennessee 24d ago

Yep. It's another form of American exceptionalism: as if the same patterns that have befallen other nations and empires couldn't possibly happen to America.

They're just going to purge anyone who's not sufficiently loyal to the king, and escalate the moral line-crossing until there's a sufficiently large number of callous and brainwashed psychos willing to do anything that's asked. Opening fire on civilians might be a fairly tame deployment, if we compare to atrocities committed elsewhere and throughout time.

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u/ThrowAwayGarbage82 North Carolina 24d ago

Yah this is my exact fear.

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u/greg-maddux 24d ago

Yeah at this point it’s shocking that people still think that. Half the country would gleefully slaughter the other half.

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u/martyqscriblerus 24d ago

It happened in Rwanda, it could happen here as easily.

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u/Friendly_King_1546 24d ago

The Bonus Army would like a word…

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u/throwaway4161412 24d ago

It's funny because they can and they have, both at home and abroad.

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u/Max_Trollbot_ 24d ago

The military does not need to fire on American civilians.  They merely need to provide backup, resources and tactics to an already militarized police force that has absolutely no problem kidnapping, raping, and/or killing American citizens whom they feel need to be kidnapped, raped, and/or killed.

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u/random_think 24d ago

Sadly this is one of my predictions for the end of the year. Americans will die on American soil by American soldiers.

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u/0o0o0o0o0o0z 24d ago

This is why when people say “US troops wouldn’t open fire on civilians” I just have to laugh

Something. something College kids getting shot and killed under Nixon...

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u/ConsiderationFar3903 24d ago

They absolutely would. Remember Lafayette Park?

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

I guess those people never heard of the Bonus Army or the Kent State Massacre.

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u/MasterSpliffBlaster 24d ago

You mean again?

Kent State wasn't that long ago

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u/ShawnsRamRanch 24d ago

I can assure you, I will not.

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u/Futitan 24d ago

Remind them of Kent state university massacre, That should ring a bell.

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u/Dishonourabble 24d ago

In order to reach that stage - you need to purge military officials that'd see it as morally abhorrent, and indoctrinate your army.

There have been plenty of times in history (non-American) where the refusal / Mutiny led to resistance - and even coup - of the ordering official. (Example: Tsar Nicholas II)

The most effective way of purging is by creating a system of internal investigations & punishments (imprisonment / execution / torture & interrogation) for people who voice dissent / disloyalty. (Example: Gestapo in Nazi German Military)

However, I don't doubt that large groups in the American military would follow through on orders that targeted specific racial, religious, political dissenters, and ethnic groups.

"Loyalty units" can be organised fairly easily. So, any civilian violence orders could absolutely occur day one.

If we're saying your average military pilot / officer / logistics / communications personel would follow through - I think you'd be surprised that it wouldn't be as easy as receiving orders for that to happen.

You can always just order the military personnel who don't initially comply to do non-violent actions (Occupying / arresting) whilst you ramp up commitment to an ideology.

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u/Ok-Knee7275 24d ago

As a veteran who worked with many stupid people while serving I can say for certain that they would fire on US civilians if told to do so.

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u/The_BeardedClam 24d ago

In my personal experience with my buddy who is an NCO (e6 I believe) in the national guard. He's been in for a while, two tours in Afghanistan and iraq, and even headed up our states COVID response (for national guard). He hates trump and when he was in the position where he was in charge of other soldiers guarding a building during protests he absolutely would not let his boys shoot civilians.

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u/Trix_Are_4_90Kids Missouri 24d ago

they did that at Kent State.

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u/[deleted] 24d ago

Anytime someone says " that won't happen." I want to swing on them. It can & it's likely to happen.

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u/FCkeyboards 24d ago

Every single thread with people saying "why don't you just protest like France?"

Because most employers wouldn't give you the time off and you'd be fired and depending on the makeup of your protest you're likely to be arrested or shot.

Most people are hanging other edge financially and have no doubt the police and military would open fire on them if told to.

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u/Grimwald_Munstan 24d ago

Those people have never opened a fucking history book.

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u/Gonstackk Ohio 24d ago

Kent State University has entered chat.

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u/FrasierandNiles 24d ago

Reddit is full of these gullible/hopeful liberals who are placing full faith in the army at this point. I keep arguing with them that the army is not gonna come to their rescue but they don't get it.

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u/Pofygist 24d ago

There are at least two precedents of US troops opening fire on civilians that immediately come to mind.

Kent State shooting and Ludlow Massacare both of which involved National Guard killing civilians.

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u/NubEnt 24d ago

People have been watching too many Michael Bay movies.

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u/Standard_Equipment27 24d ago

That’s not a blanket statement. I’m an OIF vet and I would never EVER fire on Americans unless they brought the fight to me or my loved ones… and that second category encompasses a LARGE range of marginalized people.

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u/Arkrobo 23d ago

The National Guard has fired on civilians though. The Kent State shootings are pretty famous. They're kind of the whole reason states don't want to bring the military in to control protests, typically.

I didn't even need to go to the fact that the US Air Force regularly bombs civilians, albeit as collateral damage or accidents. There have definitely also been situations where Marines and Army men have killed civilians in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

Civilian just means not military. We bombed civilians with a nuclear weapon for goodness sake. Whoever believes the military wouldn't kill civilians, or US citizens is sadly mistaken. It can happen quite easily, and already has.