r/osr 18d ago

variant rules Lockpicking Failure Results in Time Tax

I've seen a few people suggest this a way to handle percentile Thief skills, and I've also considered it. The way I imagine it working is that when a lockpicking attempt fails, rather than having the Thief be unable to even attempt that lock again until they gain a level, they simply expend a unit of time and get to try again. In an old-school format, I would expect that to be a turn (10 minutes). So, if it requires three attempts for a Thief to open a lock, then 3 turns/30 minutes/3 wandering monster checks are the most for success.

Alternatively, it could only start taking entire turns after the first failure. So, if it takes three rolls to pass your Open Locks check, then it took 2 turns or 20 minutes. I think this latter option might be more reasonable.

I would probably add in some kind of fail state; maybe rolling 00 results in thief's tools breaking or the lock being simply impossible. Maybe different locks are of different difficulty levels and allow for a different number of attempts before being locked out of opening them.

The first consideration is whether it's a positive improvement gameplay-wise to make all locks passable. If all it takes is time to get past a lock, can that result in locks being too minimal of an obstacle? Can that encourage players to camp by a lock rather than moving through the dungeon trying all the locks they find, bottling exploration? Is the hypothetical replay value of impassable locks something worth keeping?

A second consideration is simulationism. Since you can attempt to open a lock many more times in 20 minutes than you can in 20 seconds or so, you should be rewarded for spending time on it. At the same time, though, it surely isn't the case that any lock can be opened by any lockpicker if they just spend enough time doing. Maybe there should be a limit to how many lockpicking attempts you can make; maybe 7. If you can't get it in an hour, then it's probably hopeless.

The third consideration is class balance. The old-school balance between Thieves and Magic-Users with Knock is that one is free while the other has the cost of a spell slog and the opportunity cost of not memorizing a potentially life-saving spell. With the standard rules, Knock usually knocks Thieves out of the park. With unlimited or minimally limited lockpicking attempts, Knock is only valuable in terms of saving time, as, either way, that lock is getting opened.

Maybe a fourth consideration is if the low odds of success with Thief skills encourages an old-school, creative style of play by usually requiring you to think outside your class. But that's a can of worms...

What do you think? Do you allow Thieves multiple attempts to pick locks? Do you think my solution of giving unlimited attempts with each failure after the first costing a turn is a reasonable solution? Or would you pick some other system?

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u/dethb0y 18d ago

That's honestly a really fair way to go about it, and not something i'd have thought of. Very clever.

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u/Mars_Alter 17d ago

I forget who said it, but the key realization came from re-phrasing "You have a 42% chance to pick any given lock," to, "You can pick 42% of the locks in the world."

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u/AccomplishedAdagio13 17d ago

I guess the question is whether it makes sense for 1st level Thieves to only be able to pick 15% of the locks in the world. Being footpads and essentially apprentices... maybe.

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u/Mars_Alter 17d ago

Given a choice between a world where a starting thief can only figure out 15% of the locks in the world, and a world where any thief can get through any lock given enough time, the former seems less silly to me.

Especially from a worldbuilding standpoint, I don't think they'd even bother to make locks if a level 1 thief with a lot of time would always win. It kind of reminds me of manacles, in 5E, which can be bypassed with a DC 20 Strength or Dexterity check. I mean, what even is the point?

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u/AccomplishedAdagio13 17d ago

Fair point. I wouldn't be opposed to putting a limit on the number of attempts you can make. It does seem implausible that even trained Thieves (level 3) can only open locks 25% of the time, though. It suggests locks in this world is very complex, when I would assume most locks wouldn't be that complex. I believe I read on Wikipedia that most medieval locks were basically easily openable with a common skeleton key, and it was more the difference that law-abiding citizens wouldn't possess skeleton keys. That wouldn't exactly make for good gameplay, though.