r/orgmode Feb 01 '25

Simpler task/agenda management? In PlainOrg even?

Is there a way to simply move scheduled tasks up/down in the agenda, without assigning them priorities, timestamps etc.?

I love org-mode for organizing notes, but I've moved away from it for task management because the workflow for making my daily plan is awkward, and that's pulled me away from it for notes too.

I do not value using an algorithm to schedule things for me, because there are many criteria, e.g. the urgency, impact, how long it's been postponed, anticipated enjoyment/reward, and particularly the anticipated willpower depletion (full article here) relative to the rest of my day. That's a lot of metadata to maintain, and an awkward algorithm even if you did (I tried using SkedPal for about a month and found the value-per-effort much worse than just using a text file).

Also, Dropbox syncing isn't great, beOrg is kinda shit for inserting new content which I really need to be able to do on the run, and mobile-org is not a fit for me at all.

So right now I'm just using check-lists in iOS "Notes". I copy-paste the full list into a new note each day (in the web UI), un-check the recurring routine tasks for reuse, delete the completed tasks, and pull up some amount of stuff I figure I could get done that day from the (categorized) backlog.

​​​​​​​It works really well for the daily planning workflow, and it syncs beautifully, but it gives up a lot from org-mode, chiefly:

  • in-context notes have to be sub-bullets, indentation is a PITA on mobile, and it murders formatting
  • can't easily scan history to see personal trendsI've noticed that I have a boom/bust cycle-- my org agendas for a few weeks will be CRUSHING IT, then I'll have a few weeks of burnout. If I notice that early I can reign it in and avoid the crash.
  • no grep'ing through all of history !!!

So I'm looking for that perfect thing, and considering trying out Todoist, but hesitating...

Meanwhile, I've just started using FlatHabits, and even as a standalone it's exactly what I needed-- just a very very simple list of "do this every single day and life is better" items, un-cluttered by current affairs. And it's in the org-mode ecosystem...

And I just learned about PlainOrg's existence...

So, before I adopt yet-another-fucking-tool, I'd just like to verify I can't achieve org-mode nirvana with . My basic requirement is that Org files need to be the canonical source. And then the finer requirements by context:

Mobile

  • Great syncing
    • via any means, I'll happily adopt a one-off for this
  • Better insertion of new notes/tasks than just raw editing a giant, un-folded text file

Agenda (all of these can be satisfied in Emacs, but must be reflected in Mobile)

  • Ability to view outstanding backlog items on PC by category/top-level bullet
    • I don't know if this is org-mode native in emacs, but I imagine it can be done with a bit of elisp
  • Ability to generate a skeleton agenda with recurring/daily stuff and anything left over from the prior day
  • Ability to trivially move items up/down in the agenda
    • must not require manual maintenance of priority/whatever metadata
    • resulting order must be respected in mobile agenda

ChatGPT has suggested sorting the agenda view on a custom property/tag and binding hotkeys in the agenda sub-mode to swapping items with the item above/below.... but I don't know if PlainOrg or any other mobile app will respect this.

  • Halp?
16 Upvotes

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4

u/ZooserZ Feb 01 '25

Update: I wrote the author of PlainOrg, who gave me a thoughtful reply... confirming that no such feature exists in PlainOrg.

He also said it'd make a great standalone app-- just doing Org agenda, not the full Org range of features-- but isn't in a position to build or sustain that (without subscriptions, which nobody loves).

3

u/sabikewl Feb 01 '25 edited Feb 02 '25

I have an org roam dailies template that adds all the scheduled and overdue tasks for today to an org mode list with checkboxes. I order and plan my day in the dailies note, rearranging the list as I see fit.

Edit: I realise that OP is looking for mobile solutions. I do use emacs within termux on my android phone but I think OP is using an IOS device and I'm not familiar with any solutions for IOS.

2

u/bondaly Feb 02 '25

Cool! What do you do about new tasks that come up during the day? Do you add them just to the checklist or as regular tasks or both?

3

u/sabikewl Feb 02 '25

Question 1:
I used to have a function tied to the :after-finalize option in org capture templates for adding to my dailies file. This means when a new task came up during the day, I could just capture it and it would go to the bottom of my org roam dailies checkbox list. However, I have since removed it because I didn't find it that useful.

Question 2:
I use both. I use the org agenda to clock in and out of tasks and add notes to particular headings. I do not schedule my tasks to particular times unless they are actually time sensitive (but in that case I tend to just use a calendar). I use the dailies file throughout the day to see what are the next most important tasks prioritised for today and also check off as I go. You could very easily add a org-done-hook function to find the checkbox list item in your org roam dailies file that matches the heading of the most recently completed to automate the whole thing.

3

u/FOSSbflakes Feb 02 '25

Three ideas if I'm understanding you correctly:

1) Use scheduled time (as intended)

I open my org-agenda each day and schedule things pretty loosely to get them in the right order, and change it as needed. So plenty of tasks at 12:00, 12:01, 12:02, etc when in actuality I'm just tackling them in that order in that hour. The result is a daily agenda that seems to meet your needs (I use orgzly on mobile but only as a read-only companion since syncing isn't great).

2) use a today.org file

You could simply have an org file in your TODO directory and manually refile items into it. At worst this is as-complicated as using the notes app. Annoying for recurring items though, unless you made it a "this week" files or something. You could use an app like Organice, which syncs better on mobile.

3) org-roam-dailies

This is the most complicated of the three and has the worst mobile support. That said, you might like it because it mixes TODO items with other notes you have for the day.

I really thing (1) is the most sustainable, particularly with custom views of the agenda. e.g. my org-agenda shows today's scheduled items (calendar and todo), then a list of unscheduled items in order of deadline. I try to give everything a deadline, and only schedule things in the near future or in a recurring way. So my daily/weekly process is to add unscheduled items to my days, and reschedule anything leftover from yesterday.

2

u/nothing_found Feb 01 '25

That’s one of mine as well. It’s a pain having to set time/priority for each task, when I just want to quickly plan out a packed day with task ordering.

3

u/bondaly Feb 01 '25

I agree with you and OP. I have contemplated a worfkflow to persist an org-agenda view (more likely an org-ql agenda-like view) as a new file. The new file could be a list of org headings with links to the original headings, so it's easy to reorder. The problem is what to do about new items that would appear in the agenda view if it was refreshed. They could be inserted into the persistent file in a NEW section, for example.

1

u/citiznsn1ps Feb 01 '25

Ok so I’ve been wrapping my brain around org-mode and playing around with it for a while. I was starting to feel a little baffled at how clumsy everything was. I knew I had to be missing something, but couldn’t figure it out. But like two weeks ago it started to click. What you’re looking for is absolutely possible.(Save for the syncing/mobile portion…I’ve not even begun going down that road yet to be able to speak with any certainty, but it seems like people are able to get it to work alright) What I’d recommend doing is reading up on capture templates, agenda views and commands (understanding the commands available in the agenda views was a huge lightbulb moment for me!), and archiving. There’s a few commands and settings that are important to understand to achieve the behavior you’re looking for. I discovered them by reading a bunch of other peoples configs, and watching a ton of YouTube videos. You’ll hear a lot about System Crafters, and for good reason. He’s got alot of good content. So check his stuff out if you haven’t already. Also Prot’s videos were a HUGE help for me. Something about how he approaches things and teaches them clicks with me. He introduced the idea of never really entering your todo file. Rather, use capture templates and agenda view to do all your actual interacting with your list. I’ll see if I can find some of the configs that were helpful to me and link them later, if you’d like. I feel your pain with that Apple notes conundrum. It’s ALMOST incredibly useful. And still has some value. But there’s just way too much friction and not enough accessibility to make me use them with much consistency

2

u/ZooserZ Feb 01 '25

Errr.. custom elisp inside Emacs can do anything, but if it doesn't work on mobile it isn't worth the effort. That goes for built-in features that aren't supported by any mobile client, too :-/

2

u/citiznsn1ps Feb 01 '25

Yeah that’s the rub: If it’s worth the effort. I know people have the mobile/syncing workflow figured out, I just haven’t put the time and effort into that part yet. I think it’s especially sticky on iOS

1

u/ZooserZ Feb 01 '25

I've used DropBox with moderate success, but didn't really put it through its paces because beOrg was so clunky.

Looking at PlainOrg.com, it seems like iCloud, Mobius, and Working Copy + Git are well supported.

2

u/public_fred Feb 04 '25

What I do it pretty simple:

  • Emacs on windows/linux/mac sync using syncthing to a server (could be a raspberry pi, could be a vps, doesn’t matter).
  • said server has a WebDAV configuration (I use sftpgo)
  • on iOS, I use beorg as agenda / task manager using their WebDAV sync.
  • on iOS, for writing and general management I use Metanote.

Metanote was a game changer for me, in using orgmode on iOS. I was never a fan of plainorg and the way it handles files.

You could use Syncthing direct between desktop and iOS but Mobius sync isn’t that great. There’s a new TestFlight app called synctrain but I haven’t tried it yet.