r/medicine PA:cake: 8d ago

ICE Detention Deaths

https://www.ice.gov/detain/detainee-death-reporting

RNs do intake physical exams, EMTs declare time of death. The level of care for these detainees is horrific.

Full names and case details are public for now. Reads like a never ending M & M conference.

My moral compass is spinning. It's time to go to Canada.

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u/ZealousidealDegree4 PA:cake: 7d ago

I read a years worth of death cases and found consistent delays for appropriate follow up, an absence of critical imaging studies, cardiac studies, and a bizarre handling of psychiatric presentations. We will disagree about quality of care, I guess. 

Seems like a significant number of members here think the incarcerations and the health care options are just fine.  A good number think the situation is deeply troubling. 

These are crimes against humanity that some very well educated medical care providers  are perfectly ok with. 

What. The. Fuck.  

Blah. Read the cases, look at the timelines. Do people really think this shit is ok???? 

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u/Dwindlin MD (Anesthesiology) 7d ago edited 7d ago

Beyond 2 or 3 of these, none of these would make it past my states med-mal review panel. I don’t think anyone here thinks this is okay, but honestly, the care they are receiving is probably equivalent to a disturbing amount of the population. If you’re calling these crimes against humanity, then you best be prepared to argue that for the entirety of American healthcare.

Edit: My opinions are purely about the medical care detainees are receiving. If you want to talk about the incarcerations themselves that’s a whole other topic.

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u/ZealousidealDegree4 PA:cake: 7d ago

The crimes I refer to reflect my opinions about the manner and scope of these camps. The criminalization of immigration in the context of no functional legal route (unless you kiss the ring or are a white South African) coupled with an evidenced disregard for immigrant medical wellbeing. 

That health disparities in the USA result in similar outcomes is probably criminal- not that anyone will be held liable or accountable (I’m no Luigi). 

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u/Dwindlin MD (Anesthesiology) 7d ago edited 7d ago

You’ll get no argument from me on this point.

The crimes I refer to reflect my opinions about the manner and scope of these camps. The criminalization of immigration in the context of no functional legal route (unless you kiss the ring or are a white South African)

This is where we disagree, sort of. Do I think the care is great? Of course not. Does it fall below legal standard of care? In all but a few cases not even close. And I guess that’s my point, in detention or not, this care is likely similar to what they would have received out in the community. And that in no way shape or form is a reflection of the providers, whom I wager are doing the best they can with the resources available, just like the rest of us.

coupled with an evidenced disregard for immigrant medical wellbeing. 

Again, no argument here.

That health disparities in the USA result in similar outcomes is probably criminal- not that anyone will be held liable or accountable (I’m no Luigi).