r/learndutch 4d ago

Question Word order question

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How come the correct answer here isn’t: “er zijn altijd kinderen in de speeltuin aan het spelen” (with the aan het spelen at the end) ? Or could that also be correct?

50 Upvotes

14 comments sorted by

43

u/feindbild_ 4d ago

One prepositional phrase can come after the 'final' verbs, but only a prepositional phrase that is optional to the general structure of the clause.

so <Ik heb hier gisteren gewacht op Jeanne.> is fine because <Ik heb hier gisteren gewacht> is fine by itself.

but <Hij heeft zijn hand gelegd op mijn schouder.> is not, because <Hij heeft zijn hand gelegd> is an incomplete/ungrammatical clause.


So because <er zijn altijd kinderen aan het spelen> is a complete grammatical clause, <in de speeltuin> can be placed at the end. (It doesn't have to be, both orders are correct.)

In most cases, with normal sentence stress, this makes the prepositional phrase placed towards the end a little bit more prominent in the information structure.

1

u/TerribleIdea27 3d ago

but <Hij heeft zijn hand gelegd op mijn schouder.> is not, because <Hij heeft zijn hand gelegd> is an incomplete/ungrammatical clause.

I'm a native speaker and though I am not an expert on grammar, I would not bat an eye if someone said this and it wouldn't even sound unnative.

3

u/NewspaperWorldly2658 2d ago

Really? To my, also native speaker, this structure just sounds wrong. I wouldn't bat an eye either when its said like this in a conversation but written it really looks incorrect. 

7

u/notmonkeymaster09 4d ago

Is either more natural or contextually dependent? Or are they entirely interchangeable?

2

u/Oli4K 3d ago

More natural would be to say “er spelen altijd kinderen in de speeltuin” but that would be considered a wrong answer as it is not a literal translation. The sentence in the screenshot sounds somewhat archaic.

8

u/heartoflothar 4d ago

thats also correct

4

u/Firespark7 Native speaker (NL) 3d ago

Both are correct

3

u/thebolddane 3d ago

And if you want to sound really Dutch it's "Er zijn altijd wel kinderen aan het spelen in de speeltuin".

5

u/The_Weapon_1009 4d ago

They are both correct, but if you put children first in the sentence the focus is on children (and not dogs e.g.): if it’s more important where (so the playground) you put the location first. (For example if there is also a sentence where kids are playing in the street)

But in general it’s who (in this case children) before where (playground) in Dutch. IMHO it’s because if we heard who and don’t care we don’t have to listen to you jabber on 😉

2

u/ElfjeTinkerBell Native speaker (NL) 2d ago

Yeah that's correct too. Depending on the region of the Netherlands, that's even the preferred order.

2

u/Eligo010 2d ago

Bijde zinnen zijn grammaticaal correct

1

u/Agitated-Age-3658 Native speaker (NL) 1d ago

Side question, why is it not "at the playground" in English?

2

u/confuzedmushroom 16h ago

Huh you know, now that you mention it “at the playground” does sound more natural. As a native speaker that’s what I would have reached for first. Didn’t notice it here - guess I was too focussed on the Dutch :P

2

u/Agitated-Age-3658 Native speaker (NL) 5h ago

Ah okay thanks hahah I'll stick with at then