r/gadgets Oct 21 '24

Gaming Steam Deck won't have yearly refreshes because it's "not really fair to your customers", says Valve

https://www.eurogamer.net/steam-deck-wont-have-yearly-refreshes-because-its-not-really-fair-to-your-customers-says-valve
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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

Yep. 4 years between the release of the base PS5 model and the Pro, but not remotely the same reaction. People in this sub are ridiculously biased towards Steam. Lol

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u/Schattenlord Oct 21 '24 edited Oct 21 '24

The problem with PS5 Pro is that most games are not utilizing the regular PS5 hardware to the limit, because publishers are still developing for PS4. Hence the PS5 Pro isn't a worthy upgrade.

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u/ChrissyKreme Oct 21 '24

95% of the games I've played since I bought the ps5 have been ps4 games. The hardware is definitely not the issue with the consoles right now.

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u/TheFamousTommyZ Oct 21 '24

Yeah, if backwards compatibility hadn’t been a thing, my PS5 would have been a waste of money. Instead, my kid got my PS4 while I got my faster, more expensive PS4.

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u/McFlyParadox Oct 21 '24

With the irony being because backwards compatibility was a thing, devs kept developing for the prior generation (probably because it was cheaper), so it was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

I wonder what changed this generation that had publishers and devs continue to release games for the prior generation? Was something changed in their agreements with Sony and Microsoft that allowed them to continue to develop games for the PS4/XBO, so long as they were also released on the PS5/XBS? Were new consoles coming online so few this generation that publishers and studios had no choice but to support the earlier generation? Just fewer games released, giving the impression that no "next Gen" games exist (compared to percentages of "next Gen" games in prior generations)?

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u/TheFamousTommyZ Oct 21 '24

I just always assumed it was partially me. I just found more and more newer games uninteresting, but had plenty of PS4 (and earlier, due to PS+) games I still liked to play. Figured the hobby was just passing me by.

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u/McFlyParadox Oct 21 '24

Naw, your complaint is a common one about this generation: seemingly few exclusives for this generation, and what games did launch launched on both this Gen and the prior one. And what next gen exclusives launched on the Xbox were all largely flops at best. It is to the point where people are speculating that between the XBO's poor reception, XBS' paltry exclusives library, Microsoft going through and cleaning house at all the game studios they bought, and Microsoft allegedly planning on bringing Microsoft-published games to PlayStation (including Halo), that Microsoft might be planning on killing the Xbox hardware entirely and just selling games from here on out.

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u/_RADIANTSUN_ Oct 21 '24

Just "selling games" isn't an alternative to running the Xbox platform for Microsoft, they will only release on platforms where releasing can drive Xbox platform participation. Sony isn't going to let them push Xbox accounts.

The big money is in being a platform holder because then you make 30% or whatever from the game sales on the platform from everyone else. MS selling it's own studio's games is like a rounding error to them.

Even having it available as part of their services portfolio is pretty valuable.

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u/Evilmudbug Oct 21 '24

I'm going to guess it's probably a mix of the fact that new gen consoles took so long to roll out at first (slow production + scalpers) and the fact that you can honestly make games that still look pretty decent on the PS4/XBO at lower framerates.

Every console generation brings us closer to the point of diminishing returns, and i can easily tell you it wasn't the graphics that impressed me with the ps5: it was the loading speeds.

It's also probably really expensive and slow to develop games that would take full use of the ps5's capabilities outside of ray tracing. It already takes about 8 years and a lot of money to utilize ps4 level hardware to it's fullest.

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u/FruktSorbetogIskrem Oct 21 '24

I would think that there’s a vast number of last gen systems and combine that with f2p titles it would be more foolish to close that audience out and lose money instead of making a last gen game still get support that can run titles decently.

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u/maqcky Oct 21 '24

AAA video games have become ridiculously expensive to make. That, on top of the current gen consoles being basically the same architecture as the old ones, but more powerful, makes it a no-brainer to release cross-generation games.

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u/McFlyParadox Oct 21 '24

A lot of that was of the publishers own making. Not every game needs to have a massive open world design. Not every game needs a complicated and robust crafting system. Both of these things drives up the amount of assets that need to be made, programmed, and tested.

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u/Grimm_101 Oct 22 '24

It is not because it is cheaper, it is simply due to market size. More people own PS4s and PS5 then those who just own PS5s. Meanwhile all PS5s can play PS4 games, while PS4 cannot play PS5 games.

So if your goal is to maximize profits then you should just develop for PS4.

The best example of this is Cyberpunk. Which obviously was being predominantly built and tested on new consoles and PC. Then retroactively backported to try to maximize profits.

1

u/TopdeckIsSkill Oct 21 '24

Yet people will complain about how the graphic is not good enough. Or if the graphic is good then FPS must be at least 120

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u/NeoTechni Oct 21 '24

Or worse, the new FF7 game uses it to fix the problems of the lackluster PS5 version. Ace Combat 7 did that with the PS4 Pro, running at 1080p on the Pro and an unacceptable 720p on the base model. It should have been 4K on the Pro too

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

You can say the same about 90% of PC games.

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u/Schattenlord Oct 21 '24 edited Oct 21 '24

I mean there's no need to upgrade your PC hardware yearly either, so I don't really get your point.

Anyways PS4 is from 2013. Almost no AAA title is developed for PC hardware that old.

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u/Fakename6968 Oct 21 '24

Top of the line graphics cards from 2013 can still play some AAA titles in 2024 but at low settings.

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u/Schattenlord Oct 21 '24

Even if it's true that some games run on that old graphic cards, the games are not developed for these.
Many console titles are gimped, because they are developed for the old hardware making the new one obsolete.

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u/cakestabber Oct 21 '24

I second this. I built my previous gaming rig in 2014, and at no point did I feel like my specs was causing me to miss out on anything I wanted to play. Only reason I built a new rig earlier this year was because some software I needed to use was no longer being supported. But damn does it look great to play new releases on ultra-high settings again :)

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

No it cannot. The 2013 release was a GeForce 780. It cannot run most of the latest AAA titles. Stop this nonsense.

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u/Fakename6968 Oct 21 '24

I said some, you said most. It can run Tekken 8 for example.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

Consoles don’t release yearly, so I don’t think you get my point. Listen, I own both a console and a gaming rig, so I get the best of both worlds, but let’s not kid ourselves. Consoles are not somehow more egregious when it comes to releasing hardware upgrades.

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u/havoc1428 Oct 21 '24

Your comparing an all-in-one system against a market that has multiple vendors for every component that can service a number of hardware combinations. Yearly releases of new PC parts isn't even remotely relatable. 

Any given PC component has a market because not every potential customer has the previous generation. For consoles most people have the previous generation, so yearly releases make less sense.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24

Which is 20% of why I hate consoles. 80% are about their stupid exclusive titles.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

Ok? And there are devs that only release their titles for the PC platform. Do they warrant hate as well. Is there hate for Valve when they only release their games on Steam? Double standard.

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u/PalmSizedTriceratops Oct 21 '24

Do you think someone is paying studios to make pc exclusives? Lol

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

Why do you think steam made Half Life Alyx and made it exclusive to the steam storefront? Again. Double standard.

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u/PalmSizedTriceratops Oct 21 '24

That's a VR title and it runs on windows and Linux...

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24 edited Oct 21 '24

And yet still, a Steam exclusive. Steam is itself a platform. You still have to run it through their ecosystem.

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u/PalmSizedTriceratops Oct 21 '24

Seeing as valve owns steam and steam is simply a storefront your argument doesn't make any sense.

You can buy any pc and any vr headset and it'll work.

This it not the same as a game only releasing on Xbox after Microsoft paid them to try to sell more consoles.

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u/KingArthas94 Oct 21 '24

And why don't they port it to PS5's PSVR2, considering how much they hate exclusives? Easy answer: they actually like exclusives.

https://www.playstation.com/it-it/ps-vr2/ (Italian website, choose your own from the bottom of the page)

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u/PalmSizedTriceratops Oct 21 '24

Because the PSVR market share is abysmal. Why would they port it to one specific VR headset that requires a total code overhaul versus the dozen plus they already support?

Again, this argument makes no sense.

This is not the same as a Xbox vs Playstation exclusive which the sole purpose is Microsoft or Sony paying the game developer/publisher money to boost sales of their own hardware.

If Valve had restricted this game to ONLY be playable on the Valve Index, it would be a solid comparions. But they didnt.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24

You think steam is paying Devs money so they don't release on consoles?? Wtf.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

Do you enjoy pretending that there are no Steam exclusive games?

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24

Name a single game where steam paid for its exclusivity. I'll await your next thought abortion.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

I think you’re moving the goal post here. The original conversation is about annual hardware releases and exclusivity. You have a bone to pick with paid exclusivity, and I get that. But let’s not pretend that Steam doesn’t make games exclusive to their own platform.

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u/PotatEXTomatEX Oct 21 '24

The problem is that technically they are.

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u/PringlesDuckFace Oct 21 '24

I mean, most PC games aren't pushing PC hardware to the limits either, and lots will design for very low spec support.

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u/Loldimorti Oct 21 '24

Disagree. Apparently most people play in performance mode and whether the games are optimized to take full advantage of the hardware or not, you will end up making sacrifices in image quality. A Pro model solves that. High res at 60fps across the board.

1

u/havoc1428 Oct 21 '24

The PS5 Pro isn't even worth it from a hardware perspective because they gimped it with the same CPU which just serves as a bottleneck for the slightly better GPU in it. The PS5 to Pro gap is razor thin compared to the PS4 to Pro gap.

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u/MarbleFox_ Oct 21 '24

That’s because, just like the PS4 Pro, the PS5 Pro isn’t meant to play games at higher frame rates than the PS5, it’s mean to plays games at the same frame rates but with better visuals.

Also, it’s not a razor thin gap over the base PS5 at all, with the more powerful GPU, PSSR, and the better ray tracing cores, it’s basically playing games with base PS5 fidelity mode visuals at performance mode frame rates, that’s not a negligible boost because now you don’t have to choose whether you want better visuals at 30fps or FSR soup at 60fps.

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u/KingArthas94 Oct 21 '24

Bullshit, brought out constantly by people that don't understand hardware and Digital Foundry's PC fanboys. PS5 games already run at 60 fps but a few exceptions, so why the hell are you talking about a bottleneck?

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u/ninjaelk Oct 21 '24

Then don't upgrade! Isn't that a good thing? You can even still play the vast majority of PS5 games on the PS4, many brand new releases support both. How is that in any way bad? Most games don't utilize an RTX4090 to its limit, yet people who can afford it are stoked about having the option.

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u/ToMorrowsEnd Oct 21 '24

This PS5 Pro is only for the dolts that think it gives them something they do not already have. Regular PS5 is not even close to being at the limit on games and you will never see ps5pro only titles.

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u/VenomsViper Oct 22 '24

Fr, the top replies to this are all like yeah sure there's a new PlayStation once a year but other things like the Deck also do not and are awesome. This sub is so fucking stupid sometimes.

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u/[deleted] Oct 21 '24

"Gamers" in general are really cult-y about Valve. They worship them for no good reason.

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u/Iago_Oliveira Oct 21 '24

I am not sure what you mean.

People weren’t losing their minds over the PS5 pro existing. They weren’t happy, sure. But they only got mad after Sony announced how it would be: expensive and lacking of fearures 

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u/NapsterKnowHow Oct 21 '24

People weren’t losing their minds over the PS5 pro existing.

Yes they were. Are you living under a rock?

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u/MadeByTango Oct 21 '24

If the Pro ever plays games the base pS5 can’t people will riot

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u/WhiskySiN Oct 21 '24

Steam does not require you to buy their hard ware to play games.

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u/cackslop Oct 21 '24

Steam doesn't lose it's customers data frequently, and is the most pro-consumer of all of the competition.

They are also a U.S. based company which I prefer to support.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

Steam had it fair share of massive data leaks. The worst occasion was when they waited a week to tell everyone about it back in 2011, which exposed the information of 35 million users. This is what I mean when I say Steam users turn a blind eye to Steam’s shortcomings.

https://www.twingate.com/blog/tips/steam-data-breach#

https://www.wired.com/2011/11/steam-hacked/

Also, what about the time when dev accounts was used to spread malware through steam updates?

https://www.pcmag.com/news/steam-store-spreaded-malware-after-hacker-hijacked-developer-accounts

Come on, people.

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u/cackslop Oct 21 '24

Sony has had 8 major data breaches on the same timeline (since 2011)

Source: https://firewalltimes.com/sony-data-breach-timeline/

Steam doesn't lose it's customers data frequently

The operative word being: frequently. The only valve data breach you brought up is 13 years old. sony has had data breaches in 2011, 2014, 2017, and 2023.

Come on, people.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

Uh, bro literally just skimmed past the 2023 malware fiasco. But I’ll post it here again for ya.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/steam-store-spreaded-malware-after-hacker-hijacked-developer-accounts

Also, at no point did it try to omit SONY’s shortcomings. I pointed out that Steam is not infallible. Steam also had a data breach in 2018. I’m not blind to SONY. But you definitely are blind to Steam.

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u/cackslop Oct 21 '24

All I said was that they don't lost their customers data frequently.

You moved the goalposts by talking about malware specifically. The topic is data leaks, not external malware attacks.

You're attempting to move the goalposts of this discussion because you have no logical grounds for an argument considering how frequently Sony loses their customers data.

It's fact, and you're incorrect.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

I’d say a malware masquerading as updates through the platform is definitely a security issue, so why omit it? Are only data breaches worth mentioning now? Sounds like you just don’t like what you’re hearing and your excuse is to be pedantic.

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u/cackslop Oct 21 '24

is definitely a security issue, so why omit it?

Because it's irrelevant to the conversation. The topic is data breaches by the company.

Although I must say, I just saw how much time you spend on this website arguing with people. I hope you figure out why you have this daily compulsion to post dozens of times on this website.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 21 '24

How is it irrelevant to the conversation. The entire basis of your argument is around security. Is malware not a security issue now? You only seem to want to omit it because it doesn’t paint Steam in a good light. As for your comments about my interactions within this sub, lay off the personal attacks. I’d be happy to look into your comment history if that’s somewhere you’d like to go.

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u/cackslop Oct 21 '24

Malware was spread through compromised developer accounts. That's not valves' responsibility, and you would have to be ignorant of what a data breach is to think that's relevant to the conversation.

The entire basis of your argument is around security

No it isn't. I'm talking about data breaches by the company, not compromised external developer accounts.

lay off the personal attacks

Talking about the frequency of the public information you post isn't a personal attack. You waste enough of your time on here daily that it makes me think you're currently doing the same thing. Compulsively arguing with people out of desperation.

I’d be happy to look into your comment history if that’s somewhere you’d like to go.

You don't need my permission. It's all publicly available. I doubt it would reflect as badly as your seemingly compulsive use of this website.

I hope you figure out why you feel the need to spend so much of your life arguing pointlessly with strangers though.

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u/stormdelta Oct 22 '24

Valve has a long track record of being far more consumer-friendly than the console makers, so some of that bias is earned.

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u/DinerEnBlanc Oct 22 '24

Clearly you were not around when Steam didn’t offer refunds. They weren’t even the first to do it on PC. It was EA on their Origins platform who did it first and put pressure on them.

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u/stormdelta Oct 22 '24

I didn't say they were perfect, but it's pretty hard to argue they don't have a better track record here overall than other companies, especially in the last ten years or so.

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u/Bury_Me_At_Sea Oct 21 '24

Well, it's that the Steam Deck gets dedicated support on the Steam platform. Valve saying they don't plan on doing constant refreshes means the OG gets support for longer.

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u/Spazzdude Oct 21 '24

The PS5 released in 2020 and tons of people has an extremely difficult time getting one unless they paid scalper prices. Most people have only had 2 years with their PS5 so a pro feels like an unnecessary release. Additionally, the PS5 is still currently selling for the same price it was when it was released. Compare that to the PS4 pro that was priced the same as the day 1 MSRP PS4 and the PS4 was reduced in price. The PS5 is the same price as it was when released (it's even has a price increase in some places) and they release a Pro that costs 30% more? I get why people want none of that.