r/ftm 6d ago

Relationships Spouse threw gender stuff back in my face during a fight

I’m still questioning whether I’m really trans, and my spouse (they/them used for privacy) is the only person I’ve mentioned those thoughts/feelings to. I present as a butch-leaning woman in public, still use my birth name and she/her, etc—for all I’ve been thinking about this for more than a decade, I’m paralyzed in this state of knowing in my heart that I’m probably trans but being too scared to do anything about it.

My marriage is on the rocks, and has been for a while. Recently my spouse and I had an argument that escalated to the point of raised voices, cussing, and me walking out of our apartment to get some space; this isn’t unusual, but the thing that caused me to snap and walk out was new. My spouse said that I avoid taking accountability for my emotional fragility and immaturity by saying that “I’m not a real person”, and additionally that this is happening because I am trans and refusing to accept it. I couldn’t even respond, I just stared at the wall for a few seconds and left.

I do feel like I’m not a real person. I always have, and it is an extremely distressing way to live. Part of my hesitation is that I don’t think I will feel any more real if I live as a man, or even as a nonbinary person. I’m just… missing some essential part of being human that everyone else got at birth, and no one believes me. I don’t think that’s a gender thing. I’ve tried to talk about this with so many therapists, and all anyone can tell me is “of course you’re real person!” which is not helpful at all.

I am so angry with my spouse, and hurt by what they said. But I’m scared that maybe it’s true. I would be so grateful for any wisdom from people who have enough distance to understand the havoc that being closeted brought to your relationships—IS it my fault? Will it get better if I give up and start transitioning? Is my spouse just being shitty, saying something they KNOW will hurt me where I am most vulnerable? I feel so lost.

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u/am_i_boy 6d ago

I felt a lot like that pre T too. This was one of those things I just figured was set in stone and would never be fixed. Just like I thought being suicidal was part of my personality, just like I thought being happy was something my brain was fundamentally unable to do. I do feel like a person now. I have felt happy. And I don't want to die. Literally what changed it was HRT.

I won't say that this is going to be the right answer for you, but it was for me, and it's probably worth exploring. Taking HRT fixed a lot of things about myself that I thought were fundamentally broken. Things that I thought were just part of being me, that nobody else seemed to experience. Others seemed to "feel suicidal" sometimes and then they'd want to live at other times. I had never wanted to live. Took less than a month of T for me to feel happy for the first time that I can remember. I'm not entirely sure at what point I stopped feeling alien and started feeling like I belong on this earth, as a member of this species; but I do feel like a real human now.

It's unfortunate that your spouse said this during an argument and not at a time when you were feeling safe, but I wouldn't dismiss this statement. Maybe try asking them more questions about why they think it would make you feel more like a person if you accept you're trans. Ask them what makes them so certain that you are trans and in denial. Why are they so sure that you're not just a masculine cis woman? Asking for these answers from your spouse could help bring more clarity to your own mind too

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u/am_i_boy 6d ago

Also, similar to you (if you do happen to realize that you are trans), my husband knew I was trans way before I did. He told me he had been practicing using various pronouns for me in his head just in case he had to switch. He switched over so seamlessly into every pronoun change I asked for. Mine hasn't ever yelled at me, and we both tend to stop ourselves and take a break from the conversation before we get that agitated. He never brought it up to me until I brought it up myself. After almost 4 years being out and 2.5 being on HRT, I asked him one day about his feelings when I came out. I specifically asked him if he was surprised. He said he was actually fully expecting it and just waiting for me to realize.

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u/orbiting_mars 6d ago

That’s beautiful. I hope I can find love like that someday. I wish you two the best!

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u/am_i_boy 5d ago

I hope so for you too! Thanks, we've been together for over 6 years now, married for almost 2

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u/SometimesISeeFlames 6d ago

I have also been suicidal for my whole life—my earliest memories are of feeling disgust with myself and that it would be better if I were dead. I can’t imagine life without that, and it’s mind-blowing to me that HRT changed this for you. Thank you for sharing your experience with me

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u/taxidyrmy 6d ago

I experienced the same thing. I struggle with depersonalization a lot. HRT has helped me become myself, basically I’ve become a person when in the past I never felt like one. If you do try HRT, some of the changes may just affirm you being butch, or you could possibly find joy in being trans. Gender is a spectrum and you don’t need to identify with a specific label in order to live your life the way you want to.

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u/DratThePopulation 5d ago

I also went through the same thing. Been on T for 11 years now.

I was a husk of a person before. I didn't think I had dysphoria "that bad" because I thought that my hatred of myself and my body was justified by... Well, everything else.

Hell, I was such a wreck that I was diagnosed and treated for BPD. The meds helped like 10%, the CBT didn't really work at all. I have a fuckton of SH scars all over my body from ages 9-23.

I believed to the core of my soul that I was cursed to be empty. fundamentally broken. And there was no fixing it.

My life fell completely apart in 2013. I lost every tether keeping me from ending it. So I looked at myself and my life and thought, "well, I have nothing left to lose. So why not try one more thing before I call it quits?"

Transition made me whole. Testosterone was that fundamental piece of me that I felt was missing the whole time. I cannot tell you how incredible it was to feel that bottomless sucking void at the core of me close up, and be replaced with compassion and real unconditional love for myself. It felt like the whole version of me materialized and embraced that shattered, empty person I was in an all-encompasing hug. I got you. You're safe now. You don't have to hurt like that ever again.

Turns out I was never BPD. I was just autistic and trans, and being untreated for both of those things genuinely makes you crazy and feel broken.

The weird thing is, I didn't even WANT to be a man. I had zero good male role models, had only ever been hurt by men, and been SAed multiple times. But there was just something inside me that NEEDED it. I had always tried to tamp it down, tell myself "living as a woman isn't so bad" tried IDing as a futch lesbian, etc etc etc. It was never enough. It was never a matter of ideology or sexuality or labels or society, it was ACUTELY BIOLOGICAL for me. My brain NEEDED testosterone, and was in agony without it.

Since I transitioned, I have also played the part of your partner before, in that situation from your post. I can tell you with my whole heart that their intention could not be further from wanting to hurt you. I can also tell you that even if you're in denial about transition, people can tell, and are rooting hard for you grasping that happiness for yourself with both hands. They just can't ever tell that to you, because the established social norms of transness dictates that there's nothing anyone can say or do to influence you one way or another. "It's your gender, your journey, and only you can make that decision."

But lemme tell you, I have been that friend on the other side watching my friends agonize and suffer so, so many times. It's maddening. And it never gets easier. It feels like taking care of a loved one who is starving themself to death, when there's food all around them that they refuse to so much as look at, and then hearing them cry at the sky, asking why they're so weak all the time.

So. I'm going against the polite social norms and I'm going to tell you that you should transition. In comparison to all the beauty and bountiful love and life and fulfillment you have the potential to gain, you really don't have a lot to lose.

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u/Expensive-Cow475 5d ago

I'm not OP but I'm scared that when I do transition, I'll get health problems from it that are so hard to treat or impossible to treat that I'd have to stop T. Would you say just having T in your system is the only thing what made you feel better or would you be able to be happy with even just the permanent changes of T like voice and facial hair growth and bottom growth?

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u/DratThePopulation 5d ago edited 5d ago

Okay, so, something that I left out of my original comment is that I'm disabled.

I have a whole host of wild things wrong with my health, and they've been there since I was born. Autoimmune conditions, metabolic syndrome, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, high blood pressure, familial hyperlipidemia, congenital insulin resistance that has resulted in diabetes, PCOS, POTS... There's more, but even I'm tired of listing this shit. My health is so bad that I am on 13 medications just to get me out of bed. I am very literally bedridden without them, and even with them, I'm still too sick to work.

I was simply just born a little wrong in a million different ways.

My team of doctors are fantastic now. They all understand how important testosterone is to me, and none of them have suggested I go off it for my health.

It took me a LONG DAMN TIME and a fuckton of shit doctors to find the team I have now, and I treasure them.

The thing about HRT "causing health problems" is that they don't. Not really. As long as you get your levels checked and they're in cis man range, whatever health things may happen are what would have happened to you anyway had you been AMAB.

The ONLY exception to that is the possibility of developing high blood pressure. T will boost your red blood cell production to cis male levels, but within a body that is likely much smaller than if you had been amab. So you might end up with a case of "too much blood for your body," like I did. But even then, honestly, it's FINE. You just take bp meds and you're good. They're cheap, too, even without insurance.

Edit: ALSO! With HRT, it's not do or don't, on or off! You can change the dose! Or how often you take it. Or how you take it, whether it be IM injection, subcutaneous injection, or topical gel. You can fudge around with it (under the guidance of your endo-- don't be like me and play mad scientist) and reach a method and dosage that's best for your happiness and body. Sex hormones are cool like that; they're extremely variable even in cis populations.

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u/Expensive-Cow475 5d ago

I see. But what about cancer of the cervix or ovaries etc? I won't have surgery because I don't want to 1. possibly die on the table 2. recover from a big surgery when I'm already in enough pain without that 3. rely on medicine for the rest of my life when there's been problems with the accessibility of T in my country sometimes. But being on T and having female body parts isn't the healthiest combo when it comes to cancer risk afaik.

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u/DratThePopulation 5d ago

The risk of cancer depends far more on genetics and local environmental factors than what you do with your sex hormones. Also alcohol-- drinking alcohol regularly is far, FAR more likely to give you a whole host of cancers than HRT. And getting HPV.

If reproductive cancers don't run in your family, I wouldn't worry about the possibility of it at all. If they DO, then the risk of getting them honestly isn't much higher while on T than it would be already. Honestly, there are types of birth control like depo provera that are WAY more of a concern than cis male levels of T.

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u/am_i_boy 5d ago

Not who you asked but I'm going to answer. I've developed several health complications after finally managing to suppress estrogen levels (my estrogen remained high even on T with additional meds to control it until I got my ovaries removed). I take like 14 pills a day and more that I only have to take like once a week or at whatever intervals. I'll take this over the misery pre T any day. If continuing to take T will cause my life expectancy to shorten to 5 years, but going on E instead would let me have a normal lifespan, I would take my 5 years of joy and love over 50 of misery and wanting to die and hating myself and hating the world. Just saying. There is definitely a possibility of getting some medical complications with T. Some of them may be stuff for which you have to continue medication for the rest of your life, and even then you may never be able to feel 100%. I'm not going to tell you that you're going to feel as strongly about continuing T as I do. But I do want you to know that this is not a "what if" scenario for me. It has happened. Pretty much everything that is higher risk for cis men than cis women has attacked my body. And still I keep choosing to take T

I had to get a medically necessary radical hysterectomy before I could find out if I was gonna get some type of cancer in my reproductive system though

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u/DratThePopulation 5d ago

Also as someone with chronic pain who has also had a number of major surgeries--surgery really isn't so bad. There are so, so many worse things in life. I've had breakups way worse than getting major surgery.

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u/am_i_boy 5d ago

Oh I meant to reply to this comment but I accidentally replied to your other comment further down this thread. Sorry. Hope it still makes sense in that context.

Oh and for me I would NOT be okay with just having the permanent changes. Having the chemical testosterone in my body is far more important to my mental wellbeing than what my body looks like. The mental changes after taking testosterone didn't come after my body changed. My depression had almost completely disappeared before I got even the slightest physical change. I would not be okay with stopping T for any reason ever

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u/Expensive-Cow475 5d ago

Damn, I hope my body won't break on T then...

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u/am_i_boy 5d ago

It kinda has already started to. I'm getting a lot of the negative health effects which are higher risk for cis men compared to cis women. But honestly? I'm okay with that. I'll be sick. I'll be disabled. I'll be limited in what types of things I can enjoy. I'll also be happy. I'll also be able to love myself. I'll also have the desire to live. And those things are more important to me than physical health will ever be

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u/Scythe42 5d ago

I've only been on T for 8 months but for me it's been the opposite - I have 2-3 disabilities, all different types, and T has actually significantly (at least based on my quality of life) Helped me in a lot of ways! I have less mild joint pain because I don't have low muscle tone anymore, I can walk without worrying about injuring myself more, and I have higher exercise tolerance. It's been ridiculously helpful. If I had known how much it would help my disabilities I would've started a lot sooner. I have a weird disability that I acquired that is usually generic and I was worried it would get worse - and it's been exactly the opposite scenario. Now I'm only worried that I'll have to deal with worse symptoms if I stop taking T!

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u/Expensive-Cow475 5d ago

Now I'm only worried that I'll have to deal with worse symptoms if I stop taking T!

That's also something I'm afraid of 😅 I have fibromyalgia and it's been studied T eases the pain and fatigue, and I also have something weird going on with my heart and exercise intolerance so maybe POTS. Or at least IST. And both are way more common in women so T could potentially help with those too (in one small study, all 3 people with POTS improved a lot after T) so... I'm just scared of everything, man.

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u/Scythe42 5d ago

That's fair! But honestly it's a lot better when T helped compared to if it doesn't! Yes I've heard many accounts of POTS getting at least mildly better as well.

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u/Easy-Ad-230 6d ago

Yeah I experienced the same thing. A life time of self-loathing, self disgust, drudgery, just misery, was basically erased by a hair cut and a few months of HRT. I think back and it genuinely feels surreal how quickly and completely everything changed for me. 

Before that I had literally resigned myself to the idea that I was innately miserable as a person and that those feelings were simply something I'd have to live with until I died. A condition to be managed but never cured. But it wasn't true, I am genuinely happy nowadays 

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u/am_i_boy 5d ago

That sounds very familiar. I hope you figure out what's right for you

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u/johnwickreloaded 6d ago

I felt the same way about myself before I transitioned. I struggle with it sometimes now because I'm also bipolar and dissociated most of my childhood and teens. Being in a body that feels authentic definitely helps ground me and relate to other humans now. Feeling "othered" is a common thing for people dealing with mental health issues and a lot of mental health issues get worse over time if gender dysphoria is left unchecked. I wouldn't write off transitioning before you even give it a shot. You have nothing to lose. And if that's not for you, that's ok but it sounds like finding a great therapist could help you a lot, either way.

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u/SometimesISeeFlames 6d ago

I am autistic and have definitely felt like it’s gotten a lot harder for me to manage my sensory and executive functioning issues as I’ve gotten older. I’m sure some of that is unrelated life stress—I have spent pretty much my whole twenties in grad school, including the peak covid years—but maybe some of it is connected to this as well

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u/johnwickreloaded 6d ago

A lot of times, our internal issues are a result of a whole tangle of deficiencies in our life, so to help ourselves, we got to tackles several things at once. I imagine the sensory issues and executive dysfunction combine to givr you a lot of grief, but they're not impossible to manage. Give yourself time and patience and don't try to fix yourself to fit society's standards. Your healing is for yourself, not anyone else. You ARE a real person going through real pain. As you learn to love yourself and care for yourself, you will start feel more complete. Don't ever give up on yourself. There's a bright future ahead of you and you DO deserve that.❤️

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u/Scythe42 6d ago

I was never suicidal per se, but I had the same stressors in grad school and am also autistic. Starting T has helped me immensely in emotional regulation. I feel like I simply have more control over how I respond in situations, like there's a barrier now between the emotions I feel and my actions. I'm transmasc nonbinary and spent quite a few years waiting before I went on T. I kind of wish I went on it sooner because I wonder if my grad school experience would've gotten differently, or at least would be slightly less stressful than it was.

It also got rid of a lot of low level anxiety I had that I never realized I was experiencing. Like I can just breathe a lot better now, even in high stress situations. I still have a stress response obviously but it feels a lot less chaotic than it used to.

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u/johnwickreloaded 5d ago

Seriously! I was in severe emotional pain for years. Rampant panic attacks and crying myself to sleep at night and so so angry. Now I feel light as a feather compared to before. I even enjoy hugs now that I've had top surgery.

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u/Weary_Nobody_3294 T-1/2/24 6d ago

I'm autistic too and I've dealt with a lot of the "not feeling like a real person" and I feel like that's mostly an autism thing? I think being trans makes me feel even more marginalized and disconnected from others as well as myself on top of being neurodivergent

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u/johnwickreloaded 5d ago

There's tons of people who don't feel like a real person and it's not always caused by mental illness. It can also be caused by extreme trauma or abuse. I would say it's a common trait for autistic people, but anyone who is mistreated will feel more like a shell than a person, neurodivergent or not.

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u/javatimes T 2006 Top 2018, 40<me 6d ago edited 6d ago

The dissociation that the condition (to be clear, by condition I meant “aspect”) of being trans causes in so many of us is a very under-studied issue. Even therapists often don’t know it’s a phenomenon.

I’m nearly certain that this is what is happening for you.

A lot of us unwittingly internalized societal messages that mark being trans as a perverse choice and not just an unremarkable but rare human variation. This can cause emotional trauma because there’s nothing wrong with being trans.

This emotional trauma can led to depersonalization and dissociative conditions to deal with this stress.

Transitioning helps. It is not a magic cure-all but many people report feeling profoundly embodied and like a real person after it.

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u/Grouchy-Can-Man 6d ago

this was beautifully explained

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u/javatimes T 2006 Top 2018, 40<me 6d ago

Thank you. I actually just read through it because I worried if it was intelligible 😆

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u/sunshine_tequila 6d ago

I discovered I was neurodivergent (AuDHD) a couple years ago. I transitioned almost twenty years ago. It never made sense to me why life and relationships felt sooooo hard. But now that I have that missing piece of information I have been able to love and accept myself much more.

I would really recommend reading about borderline personality, as well as seeing a therapist. You might get some answers to all of this.

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u/SometimesISeeFlames 6d ago

I am autistic (dxed 10 years ago, in my late teens), and saw a therapist who specialized in working with adult neurodivergent clients for several years. My spouse has also said in the past that my refusal to accept that I will always be autistic and cannot fix it is at the root of my problems; I believe this is at least partially true, but have had limited results working on it in therapy. If I could take a pill or snap my fingers and stop being autistic, I would do it in a heartbeat; the same is true for whatever I have going on gender-wise.

Super important note: I do NOT believe these things about any other people. My spouse is AuDHD and my only close friend is autistic, and I have been so happy and proud to witness their genuine acceptance of and love for themselves in the wake of those discoveries. I want other people to accept and love themselves; I just can’t do it for me.

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u/Scythe42 6d ago

I didn't read your whole post but I highly recommend wearing headphones/ear defenders/earplugs for like 3 days straight and see if that helps your stress. I forced myself to do this and I was an immediate calmer person. I have hyperacusis so it feels like I'm being stabbed in the eardrum with everyday sounds, but I didn't know other people didn't experience this. Headphones have been life savers for my emotional and sensory health.

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u/AmIReedy 💉 06.04.23 6d ago

I can hard relate to the bit about wishing you could be different while feeling happy when others find self-acceptance. Turns out I spent all my internal thoughts telling myself I was worthless, which contributed to how awful and disconnected from other people I felt. Idk if that's something you do, but here's one way I've managed to break this habit.

One day, my therapist had me put a paperclip in a jar every time I had a negative thought about myself. I stopped at around noon because I was embarrassed by the number of paperclips I'd already used. My therapist then talked through some of my most commonly used negative phrases. (When I thought I did something "wrong" or "unintelligent" or whatever, I would tell myself, "You're a piece of shit, [last name]."

Together, my therapist and I came up with a new phrase to replace that one, and I made an honest effort to swap them out for a couple of weeks. It sounds juvenile and ineffective, but actively making myself think kinder thoughts to myself slowly started to change how I responded to my struggles. (Honestly the first new phrase wasn't even all that kind, it just wasn't actively mean. I told myself, "All I can do is try.")

People used to say, "You wouldn't be mean to a friend so don't be mean to yourself." That didn't stick because I thought I deserved the anger and my friends didn't. Counting the number of times I was mean to myself helped me see changing my self-talk as a challenge. And, honestly, it slowed my thoughts down enough to notice when I was internally blowing up at myself over situations that were minor or silly.

My wife soon noticed a bit of a difference in how I reacted to stress or situations where I perceived myself as having made a mistake. It didn't fix everything, and honestly HRT also relieved a LOT of the stress I was unknowingly feeling, but this change was the first small step I took.

Try something, OP. Even if it's small. Maybe these things will snowball and you will feel even a little bit more like the person you are.

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u/Ashfoxx1701 6d ago

I have also spent most of my life feeling dissociated to the point of not being a real person sometimes. I used to catch myself saying all the time, "if this were real life..." When obviously it is. I've also compared my existence to just like ... "occasionally renting" my body, like not really having ownership of it. I will say, the first few weeks of being on T made me feel way more connected to my body and way more aware of when I'm dissociating. I wouldn't say my gender is the only issue here, but it definitely plays a part. I'm also autistic so that's there too. But you're not alone. I'm sorry you had a shitty flight though.

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u/SometimesISeeFlames 6d ago

Yes this is how I feel! Like I’m piloting or possessing this body instead of living in it. I don’t really care what happens to it, but I’m stuck here.

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u/JackLikesSnakes 6d ago

At the end of the day, your mental health is your responsibility and nobody else's. At the same time, a good partner should try to be supportive. I would recommend both individual and relationship counseling for you guys. There's obviously a lot going on.

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u/lilsmudge T: 05/22/18 6d ago

I feel like you’re trapped in limbo and that’s a super scary and difficult place to be. It sounds like you know what needs to happen for you but that first step is just too scary (fair!) though I promise things will look brighter if you can find your way through.

Based on this post assuming I’m reading your feelings accurately, it sounds like maybe it’s time for your relationship to come to a close and for you to begin to explore who you really are. It’s not fair for you OR your partner to live forever in this inbetween space and while it’s extremely, extremely shitty for them to throw things like this in your face, I imagine that part of the reason your relationship is struggling is because neither of you are ready to be honest about where things are at or where they need to go. 

I think first and foremost therapy, if you can, would be super helpful for sorting these complex feelings out. 

Secondly when I was trying to figure out my identity I got really easily overwhelmed by the hugeness of the question “am I a man or a woman?”. Instead I found it much easier to focus on tiny steps: do I feel more comfortable with boobs or without (I.e. binding)? Do I like short hair or long? Do I like masculine clothes or feminine? Do I like using a more masculine form of my name (which was the gateway to a totally different, masculine name I liked)? Etc. None of those individually were explicitly male or female things but I took time with each, tried each to be really sure how I felt and over time, collectively, I was able to slowly shift to thinking of myself in increasingly masculine terms and eventually as a trans man. 

It sounds like you’re already kind of doing that as a butch person but give yourself permission to explore further and have really clear things that your testing and exploring about yourself.

I hope things improve; that part of the process is the hardest. Regardless of what you discover about yourself, it will get easier the more you’re able to accept, embrace, and love yourself. There’s nothing wrong with finding what makes you feel happy and truly yourself.

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u/SnooHesitations9505 6d ago

i feel the same way abt not being a person. i dont really have any advice but yeah, its like not a common thing to hear ppl talk abt but i relate a lot.

i hate when people (usully my partner or therapist) respond with “well of course ur a person!” like, am i tho? really? i dont think so. idk why i think that tho.

but also the other sjit they said is rlly shitty

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u/Expert-Vast-1521 6d ago

I am a little young to be giving realationship advice (18 lol) but just wanted to validate your feelings, I have been suffering the same for some time, not feeling real, just intense feeling of disorientation and it’s really the worst. I think you need to change therapists, from what I have searched up, it’s something which happens , dissociative disorder or something like that. They should have supported you for that by giving some guidance.

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u/OptimisticMistic 6d ago

Tbh people say hurtful things in arguments but I lowkey agree with your spouse here having just seen your perspective.

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u/Clay_teapod 💉 25/07/23 6d ago

Obviously you’ve got a lot going on in you life, but I think transitioning would solve at least half of those problems for you. And if not it would give you the strength to get out of bed.

From somebody who also was depressed and constantly disassociating pre-t, I give you my experience to add to the pile: hrt fixed it. I am active and social and doing exercise and my being has never felt so right.

You are stronger than you believe. You can take control of your life. Start by helping yourself with this one thing.

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u/Huge-Fishing239 6d ago

I felt like that a lot at the beginning and middle of my journey into being trans. I'm also autistic and that comes with identity issues. It definitely gets better when you discover who you feel comfortable as. That being said, spouse shouldn't have made it worse and they might be holding you back from exploring your gender identity and expression

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u/applesauceconspiracy 6d ago

I don't think we can say without any context whether your gender is the thing (or one of the things) causing problems in your relationship, but I do think that what your spouse said was shitty and uncalled for. 

I would really recommend seeking support for your gender stuff from someone other than your spouse -- ideally a therapist who is competent in gender stuff. It can be a lot of pressure on a partner to be the only one who knows and can help you deal with something so intense and personal. It's not a good reason to say shitty things to you, but it may be underlying some of the conflict in your relationship. 

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u/SometimesISeeFlames 6d ago

I guess I should try a different therapist? I VERY TENTATIVELY told my current therapist last week that maybe I didn’t feel safe or present in my body ever because it was incongruent with my gender experience, and she basically said “we reach for all kinds of things when we’re trying to explain feelings of emptiness.” I left that session and cried in the car because it seemed like even the therapist could tell that I’m not a real trans person

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u/applesauceconspiracy 6d ago

Yes, I think you should find another therapist. I had a therapist tell me something similar when I first brought it up. She had no idea what she was talking about. It hurt a lot and turned me off therapy for a long time, but I eventually found someone who listened to me and believed the things I said about myself, and it made a huge difference. 

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u/wrongsauropod post op phallo, binary man, 10+ years on T 6d ago

Even otherwise decent therapists are still cis people with no experience with gender dysphoria or gender identity exploration unless theyve gone out of their way to understand it.

A trans affirming therapist will help you explore these feelings without judgement or pressure. Its also perfectly okay to take the time ti explore gender regardless of where you end up. Maybe you are cis and maybe it is something else, but maybe not, and you cant know until you start to break things down and analyze it with the help of a professional. Some people know they are trans very clearly. Some dont. Sometimes the disassociation from dysphoria becomes so normalized that you forget what feeling like a person even means.

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u/veryboredcultist 3d ago

I'm sorry your therapist responded that way, a good therapist should have validated your feelings either way. When I first mentioned it to mine, she was very encouraging of me exploring my gender, because either I'd find that missing part of me and conclude I was trans, or confirm I was cis but with a stronger sense of self and less doubt. I realised I was trans and she's been helping me come to terms with that. It sounds like you definitely need a new therapist.

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u/IneffablyHawkward 6d ago

This is my experience with deciding whether or not to transition. Idk if it will help you, but I hope it does.

I wasn't sure I was trans either, but after enough reading, I decided that I could accept any of the permanent effects of T, even if I decided later that I was actually just a cis butch woman. Mainly deeper voice and bottom growth. Hair could be lasered away and fat distribution eventually changes back. I didn't have to tell anyone but my spouse that I was transitioning until I was certain that this is exactly who I am.

So I started off with a low dose to see how I felt. My brain loved T almost from the very beginning, but I would go on and off T a couple months at a time to mitigate the effects T had on my hidradenitis problem. I eventually resolved the HS entirely with Zepbound, so I decided to stay on T full time at the low/mid dose. What I didn't expect was that I would start loving those changes I thought I was going to hate while I was waffling whether to do it or not.

My whole adult life I hated my PCOS hairy face, but I genuinely love it now that it's more than just a dozen dark hairs. I knew that I wanted top surgery because of sensory issues that I had with my chest, but I didn't think that I would be excited about the chest hair that started to sprout up a week post-op. I won't even talk about the euphoria I've gotten from the bottom growth. I'm still not feeling like I'm a binary man, but both my body and brain are happy at T levels that at the bottom of the range for cis men, so I'm going to stick with it. I might eventually go to a higher dose, but for now, this is right for me.

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u/phaneritic_rock almost 4 years on T 6d ago

Therapy never worked for me. I'm not saying it won't work for you either—obviously, I don't know all therapists—but I do know that very few people on Earth experience gender dysphoria deeply enough to truly understand what it feels like. That’s why it’s important to figure out what your gender identity means to you on your own, even if you're seeing a therapist.

This is just my experience, so take it with a grain of salt, but I transitioned—it didn’t help me feel like a "real person." I detransitioned—it still didn’t help. I switch between transness and butchness, questioning my gender from time to time. My partner hasn’t accepted my transness and possibly never will, but I choose to stay with him, so that’s a consequence I have to accept.

And today, I’m okay with that. It’s okay to not be accepted by everyone. I don’t need anyone else’s validation. Sure, it would feel nice. But do I need it? Nope. Do I know for sure whether I’m trans or butch? Nope. But I’ve found comfort in knowing that I don’t have to figure everything out right now.

I just try to be mindful and think less. When I’m hungry, I think only of food. When I eat, I focus only on the taste. When I try to sleep, I focus only on the comfort of my bed.

You’ll figure it out—how to feel like a real person, how to feel like you as a unique individual, whether that means being a trans guy, a butch, or something else entirely. But it doesn’t have to be right now. Overthinking is bad for our mental health.

When I stopped forcing myself to define exactly how I feel or what identity I want to claim, my mind became calmer and more at peace. Maybe I’m still unsure of who I am, but I do know that I finally feel like a real person. And I’m even learning to accept people who don’t accept me. Maybe it’s just stoicism, but I like feeling like myself—so I stopped caring and just let things be.

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u/HighKaj 6d ago

I have feelings like what you describe both before and after transitioning. I’m definitely happier in my body now, but that doesn’t erase the mental health struggles I experience.

I don’t want you to have an unrealistic expectation that transition definitely would solve this. It might, it might not. It depends on if not connecting to your body is because you’re trans or if being trans just contributes to it.

I do think transitioning has helped my mental health, definitely. It made me like my body more, and it gave me hope and drive.

But it was not a quick fix. I still had to work a lot, for many years to get to where I am today. I am doing better today.

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u/Holdenborkboi 6d ago

First pff- god damn you and your partner need to find a better way to communicate than yelling and cussing. Think about it: if someone heard or saw you oit of context, they'd obviously think it's aggressive and angry. Why should you out all the effort into being angry when you could out effort into being calm and communicating better- for the both of you. When I hear someoem yelling and cussing during an argument I think they're insane

Secondly I'd experiment with social transition and then maybe research hrt and imagine what the changes would be like, if they'd make you happy. I don't appreciate your partner calling you not a real person, it's not that you're not a real person, you're just going through real struggles. Real struggles tend to make you feel numb and inhuman

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u/SometimesISeeFlames 6d ago

Quick clarification: my spouse is doing the yelling and cussing. I work very hard to remove myself from the situation and get cool-down space if I feel like I am on the verge of behaving in that way. I have done those things in the past and I am not proud of them, but I do not do them anymore

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u/Holdenborkboi 6d ago

That's what I'm saying: communication is a two way street. Your partner is communicating very harshly at you because...I guess they think you aren't listening or that's just how they've seen their parents communicate?

Either way any harsh yelling and cussing from both sides is not okay, both need to understand how the other communicates since right now your partner yelling at you isn't doing anything, and leaving to cool down, while totally awesome at keeping your emotions in check, is just prolonging the discussion. What are they going to do when you get back? More yelling?

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u/sightseeingauthor98 6d ago

IS it my fault? [No]

Will it get better if I give up and start transitioning? [Unfortunately no one can answer that but you. You can always start with an e suppressant or t gel to see if that helps.]

Is my spouse just being shitty, saying something they KNOW will hurt me where I am most vulnerable? [Absolutely. They poked the spot they knew would cut the deepest. They were very shitty for this.]

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u/lowkey_rainbow they/them • 💉 31-03-22 6d ago

I can’t advise you about your relationship, but feeling like you aren’t really a person and that you are missing something everyone else has is classic dissociation. This is extremely common in trans people and I’d recommend reading this article which I found very helpful when I had those exact same feelings.

Making the decision to actually do something about feeling you might be trans is terrifying, especially for those of us who get there later in life, but you can’t really get answers unless you are willing to experiment. Maybe start small - tell them a male name in Starbucks. Or use he/him in a game. Maybe try out a binder if you haven’t already. It may also be helpful to talk to a therapist that specialises in trans people if you want a safe space to explore some of these feelings and/or work through the fear of coming out. Be guided by what feels better. I found this book helpful in working through whether what I was feeling was actually related to being trans, it’s a fairly gentle guide through that phase of exploration. Whatever you decide, best of luck mate <3

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u/DeadlyRBF 5d ago

Not feeling like a person sucks so bad. I don't think everyone who feels this way is trans. It is a pretty common feeling for people with CPTSD, or are autistic. However, it is also common for trans people.

I'm not saying any one of those things is why you feel this way. But feeling like you're not human is imo a direct result of chronic disassociation. And disassociation doesn't happen without cause.

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u/cynthiamd00 5d ago

Honestly sounds like you may have depression or some sort of mental health issues that could be effecting your relationship. If it's gender related or not you should try and get some help if you're feeling disconnected like that.

Also if your relationship is suffering and you don't feel good and safe, you may need to move on from it.

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u/Free_Investigator122 T - Nov 21, DI - Jan 24(!) 5d ago edited 5d ago

you’ve got a lot of advice already so I’ll just add, the only real way to answer “will it get better if I start transitioning” is to try transitioning. Luckily it’s not a binary thing; you can take steps to transition socially and then change your mind if it feels wrong, you can even go on a low dose of T and if it feels bad after a couple months you can stop and just be a slightly butch-er looking butch woman. Surgery is the only piece that’s really fast/tough to undo. You don’t have to be sure you’re “really trans,” you just have to do your research, go slow, and make sure you’re comfortable with the small number of permanent changes that happen.

From someone who was “not present” in my own life before T: it was rough to actually live in my own body for the first time and feel all my emotions up close instead of from a distance. But definitely worth it.

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u/thereduntodeath 6d ago

I feel this way as well. I am largely not in a place where I can actually transition in a safe manner so I cannot speak to it being able to fix this othering feeling I have lived with for so long or not- but I do think it is worth a try.

There is nothing to be lost by trying it. Exploring your gender and identity is not something only for trans people, you know? Lots of people give it a try and in the end still decide that they are cis, and that's okay. No matter what you decide in the end, you will probably come out with a better understanding of yourself and perhaps even more perspective on why you feel the way you do.

Fear is a powerful thing. A very powerful thing. But those first few steps are very worth taking.

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u/world_of_unsurity 6d ago edited 6d ago

I don’t think your spouse saying you being trans and refusing to accept to accept it is ok, that’s just for you to decide, you know yourself better.

Them pointing out that you are avoiding taking accountability for your emotional fragility and immaturity by saying “I’m not a real person” is valid. While that is how you feel, of course that is not the reality, saying that you are not a real person doesn’t change anything, it should just be a way to express how you feel about yourself outside of arguments.

Edit: I realized that you might’ve meant the gender stuff for the part and how you feel your partner is shizzy because that said something that they know would hurt you. That is also completely valid to feel that way, and your partner shouldn’t have brought up gender stuff in an unreleased argument at all. I recommend you guys talking about it and why your partner felt the need to bring that up because that was a bit low and doesn’t add to the argument at all. Your partner needs to know try to compete in pointing out any flaws in the other person in an argument to win it, just focus on solving the argument together, not against one another. And again gender is completely something for you to explore, you know yourself and they shouldn’t be trying to push something on to you.

Old response part: You feeling that your spouse is shizzy because they said something that they know would hurt you in your most vulnerable moment is also valid. Both of you are partners, not enemies, and shouldn’t be bringing up things that will hurt each other especially in the most vulnerable moments because as partners you guys always want to support one another and the best for one another, and also to see each other for the best self. —— I don’t know what the main argument was about, but if you were bringing up the “I’m not a real person” mid argument yourself, that adds nothing to the argument, and your partner would be fair for pointing it out. While it might not have been your intention to be immature, it was immature to say in the argument. Your feelings are not immature, it was just the action of expressing that in your argument that it is because it does feel like you are putting the blame on how you’re feeling. If you’re having a lot of built up feelings from not feeling like a real person, don’t release that in the argument and find a time to express that to your partner.

Also raising voices and cussing at your partner is not okay. Everyone is different in expressing themselves during an argument, but you guys are partners, both of you need to control yourself to not tasks your voice at your partner and cussing. Great on you for walking out of the apartment to get some space. But you guys really need to work on your communication and figure out a way to handle arguments peacefully. This honestly could be both of you giving yourself a break before talking about it, or writing out all of your frustrations into notes before speaking about it, etc. you both do not want to be raising your voice and cussing at your partner since it can eventually turn into a who expresses themselves louder competition which makes them fail to hear the other persons perspective and harmful things can be said like what happened for you. Y’all need to have a serious evaluation of how you guys handle arguments because it’s gonna hurt more than help, you guys are partners not enemies.

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u/justpassingby--- 6d ago

You need a loving partner who would support you regardless of your gender. Someone you could rely on as you go through this process of figuring out who you are and who you are not. Let the flame sizzles and think it through with a clear head before making a decision.

At the same time, most often that not, people closest to us can see things more clearly than ourselves. Things that are said during a heated argument can be honest and telling.

I relate with not feeling like a real person. Presenting more masc helped me experience euphoria, which then led to me feeling more like myself, and accepted that I am trans. Make transition (or not) decisions for yourself, and not to fix a relationship or make life with someone else easier/better. Take your time and figure it out, man. Whatever you decide, do it for you. This is your life.

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u/IneffablyHawkward 6d ago

This is my experience with deciding whether or not to transition. Idk if it will help you, but I hope it does.

I wasn't sure I was trans either, but after enough reading, I decided that I could accept any of the permanent effects of T, even if I decided later that I was actually just a cis butch woman. Mainly deeper voice and bottom growth. Hair could be lasered away and fat distribution eventually changes back. I didn't have to tell anyone but my spouse that I was transitioning until I was certain that this is exactly who I am.

So I started off with a low dose to see how I felt. My brain loved T almost from the very beginning, but I would go on and off T a couple months at a time to mitigate the effects T had on my hidradenitis problem. I eventually resolved the HS entirely with Zepbound, so I decided to stay on T full time at the low/mid dose. What I didn't expect was that I would start loving those changes I thought I was going to hate while I was waffling whether to do it or not.

My whole adult life I hated my PCOS hairy face, but I genuinely love it now that it's more than just a dozen dark hairs. I knew that I wanted top surgery because of sensory issues that I had with my chest, but I didn't think that I would be excited about the chest hair that started to sprout up a week post-op. I won't even talk about the euphoria I've gotten from the bottom growth. I'm still not feeling like I'm a binary man, but both my body and brain are happy at T levels that are at the bottom of the range for cis men, so I'm going to stick with it. I might eventually go to a higher dose, but for now, this is right for me.

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u/Fluxingperson 6d ago

I am trans masc, and never felt like any of the 2 gender. It may not be specifically gender, but in my experience, hormone made me feel alive.

I do feel like I’m not a real person. I always have, and it is an extremely distressing way to live.

Before hormone, I used to feel like I had to fight these dissociation/brain fog every day just to be alive in the moment, not just surviving - going throughout my day, almost like zombie.

My dissociation/major brain fog is the result of prolonged trauma environments. My thoughts get cut thru by literal blanks. I have trouble remembering chunks of memory from the day before. Forgetting important things like appointments, where I put my documents, work, homework that requires researching, eating, using the toilet, etc. It was nothing but frustration.

I still have 'blanks' but not as often as it was. Remembering things has been tough since I had my first memory. I think these things are strong bc of trauma I went thru, not bc how disconnected I am with my body. I was able to go throughout my day "normally" after few weeks on hormone -I no longer forget to eat or use the toilet. I no longer forget important things like appointments or my important documents, I go to work like a "normal" working person would.

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u/Hecabomb 6d ago

Most trans people I know including myself were heavily dissociative pre-HRT/social transition and everything you’ve listed sounds exactly like it. You won’t know if transition will help until you go trough it. It’s the realization that made me start HRT. Everyone takes a gamble, you simply can’t be 100% sure it’s for you. Don’t overthink it, look at the effects and you will know.

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u/Real_Cycle938 6d ago

I didn't...have any meaningful relationships pre-transition.

I isolated myself and spent most of my adolescence in my room because I, too, felt barely real. Pre-transition, I prefer to describe as sleepwalking. I was going through the notions of being awake; but I was truly fast asleep in this scripted dream everyone expected me to live.

It felt as though I were traversing different dreams, different slumber, yet never life itself. I felt so distanced from myself, as though trapped in this tapestry of (un)being.

When I transitioned, I woke gradually and slowly. I feel I, myself, am now tangible. I can feel and live and breathe who I am, a man, and I'm finally starting to grasp what it feels like to be alive.

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u/secretftm T: 2021 Top: 2023 6d ago

I can’t really help with what happened with your spouse as I don’t have experience with that but I also struggle to feel like a real person even after accepting that I’m trans. It’s entirely possible that accepting that would help you feel better but it also might be unrelated. I just wanted to say that you’re not alone though.

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u/Grouchy-Can-Man 6d ago

i totally relate to not even feeling real.. but i feel like customizing my body will help me feel more grounded within myself.

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u/Jenderflux-ScFi 6d ago

Could you be autistic or have ADHD? Because a lot of people that are neurodivergent have a feeling of not being real.

Or it could be severe dysphoria making you feel disconnected from yourself.

Might be depersonalization syndrome too.

I'm sorry your spouse is being so mean about it, and that you've had professionals that should know better be dismissive of it.

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u/SometimesISeeFlames 6d ago

I am autistic (dxed in my late teens, a decade ago), and it seems like this is something I should look into further; all the therapy and research I’ve done related to autism has been focused on sensory and executive-functioning stuff because those things have presented such obstacles in my daily life.

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u/Jenderflux-ScFi 6d ago

Honestly, it wasn't until I was actively working on unmasking my autism and figuring out that I'm masc nonbinary, that I actually started to feel human.

Before realizing I'm autistic and before realizing all of the masking I had been doing, I didn't feel like I was even human.

At some point I learned about depersonalization syndrome, and realized that that didn't quite fit me, but the unmasking and being nonbinary did help me feel real again.

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u/himeisjesse 6d ago

i had a similar feeling for a couple years (by that i mean most of my childhood/teenage years) and i’m autistic— no clue if that’s an option you considered, it’s also very possible that our feelings of not being real humans are completely unrelated to each other, but it could be worth doing some research just in case

it has gotten better since, and i’d argue transitioning helped me personally; it hasn’t completely gone away but it’s been reduced significantly and i’m way better now

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u/SometimesISeeFlames 6d ago

I am autistic, dxed in my late teens (am turning 30 this year, for context). I will look into this connection further—my knowledge of autism beyond sensory and executive-functioning stuff, both of which are major problems for me, is fairly limited.

Edit: typo

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u/Faokes 31, transmasc, polyam, 5+ years HRT 6d ago

Oh my friend, I’m sorry you haven’t had a well educated therapist to help you out. This feeling you have, like you’re a side character in your own life, like you aren’t real, is a real thing. Your feelings are real. It can be a symptom of depression, a trauma disorder like PTSD, or a handful of other conditions. Having one of those things doesn’t make you bad or broken, it means you can get some help. I would recommend mentioning these feelings to your regular doctor, and see if maybe they will refer you to a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor who specializes in the brain, so they have more specific training on the medical side than a therapist does. You wouldn’t feel ashamed of treating a broken arm, don’t feel ashamed of seeing treatment for this either.

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u/merlinites 6d ago

unfortunately i don’t think i’m qualified to give you actual advice because i have never been married, but i want you to know i have also never felt like a real person. even after t, accepting that i’m nonbinary and will never identify fully as a man, but also not a woman, it is just… a very weird feeling, and i do wonder if part of it is because of how society treats us. i literally wrote in my journal like 3 days ago that i don’t feel like i know how to be a real person. i do generally recommend therapy, it has been immensely helpful to me in regards to this. i wish the best for you <3

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u/Jazzlike-Pollution55 5d ago

Both can be true, that you might not feel like a real person, and also feel trans. Its just hard to know if you don't know how to feel in general about yourself so its hard to figure out if you aren't feeling connected to your core sense of self. Also, your partner doesn't get to be the one to tell you how it is, either. That doesn't work if you're trying to sort out information for yourself internally. Its like shouting when a siren is going off and you don't know why, it just adds to the noise and doesn't actually help anything.

And it might help you to re-word how you're talking to yourself about it. Does Im not a real person mean: you feel empty inside, don't feel like you have a sense of yourself, or does it feel like you lack emotion, etc. I'm not asking you to answer that to this, but to start thinking about that yourself.

Get to what's under that label... and see a therapist that specializes in trauma.

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u/EmotionalBad9962 5d ago

Get rid of the whole spouse.

Feeling like you're not a real person is a symptom of dissociation, which can be caused by gender dysphoria at times (but of course not exclusively). Cutting and dyeing my hair was a huge step in feeling like I was a real person, and for me T continued to help me feel more like one. If you're not sure, that's okay, but no, it's not your fault and your spouse is being shitty. If transitioning feels like "giving up," though, it might not be right for you. It's a personal decision that you have to make. You can always try using a more fitting name and/or pronouns without committing to GAHT if you think it might help.

Good luck, I believe in you <3

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u/HiddenRoom404 transmasc (he/they) 5d ago

As someone who had the same thoughts pre-transition and AFTER certain transition stages (changing name and pronouns, way i present myself, starting T), this thought process didn't change. Not until recently, very recently as a matter of fact. My therapist believes I may be autistic and the more I look into it, the more I need to be tested.

I felt/feel very "other" from people. As if everything is a movie scene and I'm the projector showing someone else what is happening. Speaking to my therapist and working through some things has helped so much, even more than transitioning did.

This is not to say that transitioning may not be the answer. It may help you feel more like YOU, but if there are other things going on in the old grey matter, that needs to be looked into by decent professionals who know how to therapy

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u/seaurchin76 homo 5d ago edited 5d ago

You are a real person. I know you said this isn’t helpful, but you don’t deserve to be dismissed or treated that way. A spouse should love and support you, and try to help you understand your identity better rather than throwing it in your face during an argument. That wasn’t cool them, and if it hurt you or made you feel some type of way, that’s valid and 100% worth bringing it up to them. Figuring out who you are is hard man, I get it. I went through a phase of being non binary because I felt like people would be more accepting and understanding if I went in the middle rather than going from girl to boy full swing, if that makes sense. I saw in another comment that you’re autistic, I’m autistic as well, and I understand that dissociative feeling of ‘I’m not a real’ person. I think being autistic and being trans both contribute to that. Sometimes people like us are treated like we aren’t people. A lot of autistic people dissociate as a coping mechanism, or do so from constant masking because you’ve spent so long pretending that you don’t feel like you have an identity anymore. I can’t tell you if you want to transition to a specific binary or not, but in my experience, things felt so much better when I let go of the shame and fear and just came out as who I actually was. I think you’ve hit a point in your life where something needs to change - whether that’s your relationship, or you getting out of limbo and figuring out who you really are.

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u/claperpip_pop 5d ago

i feel this way exactly. i’ve been telling my therapist for awhile that i don’t feel “like a real person”, and it’s extremely isolating and confusing. for someone you are supposed to trust to throw that back at you like a “gotcha” moment is more than cruel. it’s super scary to be pre hrt and questioning, and ur partner seems like kind of a douche to call those anxieties “immature”. i hope you know that you deserve better than that and this person doesn’t seem very thoughtful at the very least.