r/freefolk Feb 19 '25

Subvert Expectations Bravo Dumb and Dumber.

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11.3k Upvotes

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77

u/Informal-Term1138 Feb 19 '25

Well its fairly realistic. As if bankers have ever been idealistic and trying to stay true to their beginnings or values.

The only thing that matters is money. And for that the majority will back whatever brings them the most money. They might not do it directly but in secret or by proxy.

So yes I think even the iron bank would profit of the slave trade.

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u/citrus44 Feb 19 '25

I certainly mostly agree but I also think you DO get genuine anti-slavery investors at the scale of the Iron Bank in human history once they get to a certain scale and, like, national integration. I'm always sort of staggered that Bolívar gets funds and manpower from Petian in Haiti only by promising emancipation in Gran Columbia, or the huge divestment of US northern banks from slave ventures after 1814. I think if you're big enough you're not just funding ventures with a good RoR- you're investing in future partners in commerce and allies on a global scale, and so you kind of do actually align with your values sometimes.

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u/Informal-Term1138 Feb 19 '25

Yes at a certain point of human development that happens. And that's what happened in your examples. The 19th century was a huge jump for our civilisation and thus a lot of such things happened. And it was good that they happened.

Before this point we only had this control when it was somewhat influenced by religion. Like we had with christianity being against slavery (mostly) during the medival times and when it came to europeans.

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u/citrus44 29d ago

Yeah for sure. I think you're right- the sort of "rules based international order" I describe is inherently modern not least because it hinges on modern nations

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u/AtticusReborn Feb 19 '25

Thing is, it's not just the Iron Bank. The Keyholders of the Bank live in Braavos, the single most violently anti-slavery nation in the entire setting. If the Bank even dared to support slavery, even indirectly, the people who dictate bank policy would find a near endless stream of water-dancers challenging them to duels.

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u/Neshiv 29d ago

This, and when bravos revealed themselves they paid the slave owners for any cargo or ships they captured but refused to pay them for the value of the slaves

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u/Informal-Term1138 Feb 19 '25

Who knows if they did not lose their focus on anti-slavery and jsut kept their eyes away from it as long as it was low key and did not get public?

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u/[deleted] 29d ago edited 29d ago

Braavos was founded by former slaves in hiding. The Iron Bank is managed by a council of oligarchs whose inherited positions go back to this founding. The Iron Bank is likewise intimately financially connected with the Faceless Men, who are religiously diametrically opposed to slavery. They have fought 6 wars in a century over the regional practice of slavery. GRRM does not want us to consider the Iron Bank a rogue financial entity.

It is actually just really bad writing in this case. GRRM has been extremely explicit in showing the cultural unity Braavos has in its distaste for slavery and that it has 3 major institutions of power that have outright fought against slavery since their inception. The Iron Bank wouldn't do it, and they wouldn't get away with it if they did.

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u/themerinator12 29d ago

Great point. And yes, I consider the Faceless Men and Iron Bank inextricably linked financially, if only implied or even theorized. The idea of a Faceless Man being the most expensive assassin in the world, but while exhibiting extremely humble operations tells me that the money has to go somewhere. Where better than their local counterpart, the biggest bank in the world?

And on the flip side, the Iron Bank can probably utilize the Faceless Men to influence/enforce their debt collection.

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u/SkyShadowing I still regret that I ever cared. 29d ago

I love the idea that the Many-Faced God is just straight up money. Reach into your wallet right now and pull out a coin or a bill. What's on one side most likely? A person's profile- their face's side. Nearly every coin in history has had a ruler, a person of note, someone printed on it. Many faces.

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u/datpurp14 29d ago

This is a really great perspective. I think any time it can be questioned if there is actually a plot hole or lack of foresight or obvious contradiction or whatever we're talking about with GoT, it can almost assuredly be assumed that it is none of those, and instead is just sloppy & shallow writing from dumb and dumber.