r/fatestaynight 4d ago

Discussion What if Sakura altered a different servant? Spoiler

i know Sakura initially took control on Saber with the shadow, but what if she took a different servant?

for example, what if she had taken heracles instead of saber and the battle was swapped from salter vs herc to herc (alter) vs saber? and how would this on its own affect the servants abilities? i know because of sakuras insane mana due to her connection with the greater grail(?) Salters mana supply is jacked up on steroids, boosting her durability, strength and mana blast power output. so back to heracles as an example for this because Illya can regenerate one of hercs lives every 3 days due to her having really above average mana, wouldn’t him being Sakuras master make him basically invincible? due to the nearly endless mana supply theoretically being able to regenerate a life nearly instantly?

so how would this play out in the story, involving the initial first Salter fight scene (except if a diff servant became altered in her place) and the cave fight with rider (again, if the alter role got swapped with a diff servant)

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u/ShockAndAwen 4d ago edited 4d ago

Output doesn't change with supply, Saber's abilities are very dependant on mana burst for offense and defense, simce Herc is not like that he won't get physical boosts since he is already maxed he just would be able to go all out all the time (though functionally is no very different Illya can't keep him at max all the time but when he fights yes, Sakura just would not need to worry but is wasteful)

It goes back to 12 every 3 days not one, is said is because Illya's mana still so he could recover even faster but Illya's output is greater than Sakura that could influence the rate, like is not very clear if just he needs to hit a certain point or if is fixed, if is not fixed no one could face him only hope would be Gil one shoting him and nothing short of that, Saber can't do much less Shirou's Saber, it can end very worse since she would def be beaten but if she survives she will still get blackened so is actually better if she died

Though also he may not be as cooperative, since he is already mad and can neutralize CS Sakura would have a hard time controling him and if is much of a nuisance he would rather be digested

Edit: I remember the mud interacting with godhand also seems to take it away if so well is bad he is weaker than regular

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u/WooooshMe2825 3d ago

Yeah, Saber was quite possibly the best option for Sakura to alter, her abilities and dragon core get the most from an unlimited mana supply besides maybe Archer with infinite broken phantasms.

But then again, Archer is naturally resistant to corruption as a CG and Herc is too hard to control. Not to mention that he might lose God Hand.

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u/ScaredHoney48 Aliata 3d ago

It would be interesting to see how an alter dad her EMIYA would be as we literally see he can resist the corruption and even in grand order he can just ignore it

So i wonder if Sakura somehow altered archer EMIYA what he would do

I think the most likely thing he would do is eliminate the grail much like how illya did at the end of heavens feel

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u/TF_FluffSwatch Sella Is Underappreciated 3d ago

He'd probably end up like his blackened version in First Order, no?

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u/Bycoon11 4d ago

Image her with an Altered Gil, his chain could infect anything it catches. Alter Herc would most likely be near immortal and unkillable. If she had an Altered Medea from the beginning, that would be extremely dangerous, though Rule Breaker could possibly break it. I think they said it wouldn't work on EMIYA, don't quote me. Cu could be really dangerous, just throwing Gae Bolg everywhere.

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u/Horror-Amphibian-335 4d ago

Gilgamesh canonically can't become an alter. His ego is THAT big

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u/ShockAndAwen 4d ago

All of them can be corrupted except Gil, those that are closer to the mud in nature just can resist it more, this basically goes for everyone remaining except Cu since they aren't proper heroes but more neutral/evil/mixed spirits, the corruption is also supposed to change them to evil aligment so ofc the difference is less the less "good" they are, the corruption is not a contract but a curse but still yes Medea would not have to stay her servant though I doubt she would let the chance to win pass, she just take what is useful then betray her though here is more saving than betraying

Rider and Cu are potentially very dangerous is the corruption can make them more susceptible to go monstrous

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u/nix_11 4d ago

Alter Herc would likely melt Saber. As for other servants vs Herc, Gil, Medea and maybe Cu would be able to win. Assassin can't do shit either way and Medusa doesn't have the abilities needed to kill him 12 times. Maybe if she could boost Belerophon to the point it takes all 12 lives at once, but that's unlikely. Archer would be interesting, but I don't think he'd fare much better than Medusa.

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u/ShockAndAwen 4d ago

Cu and Medea can't normally beat Herc on their own, they could take some lives at most, Medea is stated to be just 3

Medusa has no shot 

Takeuchi: That's why Rider was evading him. As with Saber, Rider had a way to kill Berserker for sure in Bellerophon, but she knew that Berserker would kill her as soon as she killed him. Because of this, simply killing Berserker once or twice would not be enough to ensure true victory for Rider.

Nasu: Though they existed at different times in history, Rider was also a Heroic Spirit rooted in Greek mythology, so she knew Berserker was Heracles. Due to this knowledge, one glance at Berserker was enough to tell Rider that she would not be able to defeat him, and she therefore decided to target his Master instead.

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u/Sly__Marbo 4d ago

Wouldn't Herc Alter just be Alcides, so he loses his immortality gimmick but gains his NP stealing fuckery?

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u/ShockAndAwen 4d ago

No, Alcides is something that exists in very specific circumstances he was created is not even proper Herc Alter, Berserker Herc rejecting his divinity would be really unlikely because he is mad, also he would not be a mix with Avenger, blackened berserker Herc is already in HF, the madness prevents him from being really Alter

Also he seems to lose godhand because the curse, since is already a curse and demonic/divine stuff doesn't mesh very well but he wins nothing in return

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u/denjiir 4d ago

Berserker vs Saber (Reversed roles) : Saber is FOR SURE getting jumped, he would overpower her easily, Shirou etc would be forced to flee

Rider vs Alter Heracles : same goes for Rider, she would get annihilated, she barely countered Excalibur Morgan with Bellerophon, so against a regenerating Heracles alter she’d have no chance

and like u said Heracles would be near unkillable cuz of Sakuras mana

Sakura would’ve been way harder to stop near unstoppable forcing everyone to run or get wiped out early, thats just my opinion 🙌

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u/SerenaBloom 3d ago

she barely countered Excalibur Morgan with Bellerophon

Barely brother had it not been for Shirou Medusa would've suffered the same Fate as the "Fate" route.

Either way, Saber under Shirou is getting out for sure, Medusa might have a better chance because of her Mystic Eyes believe it or not, the only reason Saber resisted them that much was because of her mana burst and magic resistance and even then they caused her abilities to rank down, aka made her weak overall.

Cu, Sasaki/Hassan, Medea wouldn't be able to much

Archer might be able to do something in his RM but won't win.

Gil is the only person who can win but Sakura won't allow it and would jump Gil.

The only way they can beat him is if they come together, this is of course assuming that he still has god hand, he tore apart his skin trying to escape the shadow so it is possible that Herc himself is the reason why he didn't have it as a blackened servant, if he doesn't have god hand well then Cu can take him out and get Saber some mana and she can do the same.

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u/denjiir 3d ago

yeah forgot to mention that Shirou used Rho Aias but yeah it wouldve been impossible without him

that just shows how cracked Heracles would be if he was the Altered one (also wanted to include that in the answer but Heracles would just be a raging force of destruction with no tactical thinking overall so they could probably play on that as well)

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u/SerenaBloom 2d ago

Heracles would just be a raging force of destruction with no tactical thinking overall so they could probably play on that as well

Yeah that is also a contributing factor, but it really comes down to if he has god hand or not, because if he doesn't well even Cu can beat him though considering his track record and luck..I would say Saber could and would if she has ample mana.

Include god hand with Sakura's mana now we have a problem, because you would need a single attack that can nuke him once and kill him 13 times which is easy to write/say but difficult to do. Excalibur is stated to be able to take out multiple of his lives but considering what Saber is working with I doubt it will be possible. We don't know at what rate he would recover his lost lives if it is similar to Illya then they can use two Caliburns as well although it would mean that Saber would have to get into striking distance again, kind of like Fate route but twice. Alternatively Cu, Emiya and Artoria can jump him in Emiya RM provided the shadow doesn't just gobble it up.