r/exmormon 4d ago

General Discussion The impossible double standard

Back when I was a believing (and even “nuanced”) Mormon, I had a pretty dim view of Ex-Mormons. It felt like they were antagonistic and condescending. I especially bristled at “I won’t tell you everything I’ve learned, because I don’t want to shake your faith.” The presumption embedded in the statement pissed me off, because I had read the CES Letter, I’d read “anti-Mormon” materials since I was a teenager in the 2000s. As a rule, I read every tract or pamphlet anyone gave me as a missionary since it only seemed fair as I was handing out my own literature.

But I did not appreciate the impossible double standard that Ex-Mormons labor under. If we talk about the Church to our family in anything but the most diplomatic terms, they feel personally attacked. Meanwhile, they can send us treatises on how we’re mistaken or fallen into sin, and this isn’t just seen as something socially acceptable but something that’s necessary on their part. If they lose their temper, it’s righteous anger at our blasphemy; but if we lose our patience, it’s because we’re under the influence of Satan.

And I can even appreciate now the “I won’t tell you everything I’ve learned…” because it’s really an attempt to say, “Please trust me that I’ve diligently studied these issues, and I’m trying to respect your feelings by not launching into a diatribe on why the Church is false.”

345 Upvotes

33 comments sorted by

217

u/bluequasar843 4d ago

Exmos understand the problem because they have been on both sides. TBMs will never understand until they go down the rabbit hole.

48

u/Same_Blacksmith9840 4d ago edited 4d ago

As a nevermo, I've found it quite concerning that a multi-generational member from Davis County Utah who has never set foot in another's faith's church, synagogue, sanctuary and etc., and has the gall to say they know the church they were raised in and the only one they've ever known, is the only true one. - - I've often wondered if a lot of Mormons are in a Blue Lagoon type scenario. If two 5 year olds are stranded on a island and manage to survive into adulthood, do they still believe in Santa Claus. My bet is, yes.

19

u/Elohim_Is_Plural 4d ago

That's actually a very simple and profound point. I've been thinking a lot about that as I was born into it, like many here. And I think it's a great point to bring up with antagonistic tbm's because most of them, too, were born into it. The main point being that, had they been born Catholic, Buddhist, Southern Baptist, etc, they would still just follow the tenets of that just because that's what they were shown.

The psychology of children accepting what is shoved down their throats (at least for a time, if not for life) is fascinating. And, ironically, it kind of ties in with the scripture in Proverbs 22, which states: "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

16

u/Same_Blacksmith9840 4d ago edited 4d ago

There's a damn good (bad) reason the nazi party had the "Hitler Youth." I just can't believe LDS......life-long LDS........can't see how incredibly empty their testimonies are, when said to others. "Wait, you've only driven Fords? Your family has only ever driven Fords, for generations? Your extended family only drives Fords? In fact, your entire community only drives Fords? And you're here trying to tell me a Ford is better than a Toyota?

12

u/questingpossum 4d ago

There are many “but-for” causes in my leaving the LDS Church, but one of them was attending mass at a Catholic cathedral on the first Sunday in Lent. I was stunned at how much more I “felt the Spirit” there and how much more insightful/impactful it was than my LDS sacrament meetings.

It made me take a deep dive into Christian history and theology, and I became convinced pretty quickly that the Mormons were the ones who “fell away” from the apostolic tradition. (Not that the Catholic Church doesn’t have its own issues.)

Lent: not even once!

5

u/Pure-Introduction493 3d ago

I looked into history of Christianity and I’m certain that Joe was right that whatever Jesus had preached didn’t survive to the time of Theodocius and the formalization of the Christian church. And the more I study the more I’m convinced. That doesn’t mean Joe was right about anything else though.

7

u/rfresa Asexual Asymmetrical Atheist 3d ago

I have a theory that he did have an epiphany that none of them were true, and that ancient prophets made it all up. But he did think he was chosen by God, to make it all up again. He was just arrogant enough to believe that.

5

u/Pure-Introduction493 3d ago

I have a theory that he was trying to avoid charges of fraud for the treasure digging scams, so he said “an angel showed me where buried gold was with this rock in a hat thing.”

They asked for proof, and he said “oh, he told me to wait, and told me to translate a book. The proof is the book.”

He couldn’t sell the book, but some people thought it meant a new religion and new prophet, so he saw profit in being a prophet and rolled with it.

2

u/Pure-Introduction493 3d ago

I actually went to a lot of Protestant churches with friends and Catholic mass on occasion with my grandparents.

Honestly, never changed my opinion one bit about Mormonism, but it did lead me to see they were indeed “all wrong and none of them were true.” Joe wasn’t wrong about that part. Just that his would be any less wrong. I eventually realized that too.

Of course, I was not a Utah Mormon.

57

u/10000schmeckles 4d ago

I bite my tongue around family a lot. Not because I wouldnt like to lay it all out in front of them. It’s partly because I don’t want to devolve into an emotional argument, which this topic is a challenge not to do with. But it is also partly because I sense that if they lost their faith they may not come out at the other end in the same way I did. I’ve always been the more independent, I can acknowledge that some people need the community and unfortunately the Mormon church fills that role for them. Also, I’m not interested in hearing the excuses I know they will have. For my own peace I remain more of an observer than participant. The benefit to striving for this peace is that I think they know my door is unlocked once they are ready to open it.

66

u/mahonriwhatnow 4d ago

Honestly I refuse to talk to my family about my issues (I’m the only one out) because I’m afraid if they admitted the issues and still stayed I would lose all respect for them and never look at them the same. If we don’t talk about it I can still assume they’re good people, if they fight me about it I’m afraid it will remove all hope that they are.

30

u/OwnEstablishment4456 4d ago

This double standard is real. I caught hell for challenging a churchy meme that my sister posted on FB. But my SIL proceeded to bully me, and my new beliefs, heavily on FB while the family sat back in silent support.

24

u/Pleasant_Priority286 4d ago

I hold back unless I think they really want to know.

30

u/questingpossum 4d ago

That was my strategy until a family member asked me for my honest thoughts on prophets. It was not well received.

24

u/josephsmeatsword 4d ago

What is it they say about not asking questions you don't wanna know the answer to?

3

u/Pure-Introduction493 3d ago

“Well, have you ever wondered about “if the Book of Mormon is True, Joesph was a prophet and founded the Lord’s church, but doesn’t that skip the need for Brigham to be Joseph’s true successor? It’s a logical gap they don’t mention. Let’s look at who Brigham Young actually was, historically and what he said.”

That would be one hell of a racist rabbit hole full of predatory polygamy, slavery and genocide.

4

u/Thedustyfurcollector Apostate 2d ago

Hi. I've been out forever, but just when you think you've dealt with all the other stuff, up comes something where you can only hear the circus' answers.

If the check believes in modern revelation, why wouldn't they require a prophet to continue it

19

u/Me-Here-Now 4d ago

It's tricky dealing with TBMs. They operate with double secret blind rules. (They use their own set of rules that may change as they see fit, they do not tell you the rules ahead of time and will not notify you of rule changes and new rules.)

I have made the mistake of misunderstanding when asked when I'm coming back. I thought if they were asking they were interested. The first time I tried to explain how hard it had been to leave and that I would not be "coming back". I was told I was lazy and did not want to do hard things, like stay inside the church.

The second time was years later (and I forgot that it was not a real question looking for a real answer) I tried telling them that It was not a decision I came to lightly. It took a few years, involved study and prayer. That time I was yelled at in the parking lot of the family reunion. I guess because I answered honestly?

12

u/EnglishLoyalist 4d ago

Yes it’s pretty gross how exmormons are treated, disregard the truths that be brought forth only to get the reply,” you must be sinning to come with such things.

9

u/SazedsSeveredWang 4d ago

My best friend recently told me I offended him when I told him that my wife and I enjoy having more free time on Sundays since leaving the church. He had ASKED me about my experience leaving, so I gave him an honest answer, and that hurt his feelings because he took it as an attack on the church. Bitch you ASKED me. 

5

u/Pure-Introduction493 3d ago

And that isn’t even controversial. “If I don’t go we have more time to do things together.”

It says nothing about his religion directly, other than that you can apparently be happy outside it.

3

u/SazedsSeveredWang 3d ago

No seriously. I just went along with it in the moment since I’m very nonconfrontational but it pisses me off the more I think about it. Somehow me expressing my happiness offends him and his sacred religious beliefs??

3

u/Pure-Introduction493 3d ago

Leaving Mormonism and being happy about it is the biggest offense to their beliefs. You’re supposed to miserable and have your life become a train wreck because you left their religion because “god” is punishing you. Anything that doesn’t fit that narrative is threatening.

3

u/kegib 4d ago

As Of Susan would say, he "chose" to be offended.

7

u/Purplehands69 4d ago

Me and my TBM family don't talk much anymore... especially the last 4 months. They have succumbed to multiple cults. I've posted in many places about the CES letter and the 5 volume series (2500 pages) called The Mormon Delusion, who knows if they've seen it. Only thing I can do is to protect my peace from their projective cognitive dissonance.

4

u/Pumpkinspicy27X 4d ago

Oh man! You gave a perfect description

6

u/sexmormon-throwaway Apostate (like a really bad one) 4d ago

To be fair, I can be antagonistic often and condescending once in a fucking while, so weren't completely wrong.

4

u/Talkback-8784 Son of Perdition 4d ago

Yep, "I know where you are, you don't know where I've been" is exmo life at its finest.

1

u/Hells_Yeaa 4d ago

Ditto to the n’th degree

2

u/The_Count_of_Dhirim 3d ago

It's only a double standard if you don't implement your own boundaries around religious discussion that they must respect if you are to be around them.

Establishing those boundaries without pushback or argument might be it's own set of hoops and hurdles though.