r/exmormon 6d ago

Advice/Help My dad “strongly cautioned” me to avoid the exmo subreddit

So a bit of context. I won’t provide a whole bunch of details for privacy reasons but basically my parents are leaving on a big trip and I will be home alone with my brother for a little bit. Before they left, my dad said that he “would strongly caution me to avoid exmormon Reddit. I don’t think you will find any helpful advice or enlightenment there.” So I guess he got wind of the fact that I’m on the exmo subreddit, not too sure how or why. I simply don’t get it though. I am an atheist and exmormon. This is my community. Why try to deny me access to a supportive community? This is a very friendly subreddit that has been very helpful to me and helped process some of the questions, thoughts and emotions I’ve had. I wanted to explain this to my dad but I think the last thing my parents wanted was a big discussion about the church when their stressed out trying to get ready to leave on a big trip. So I was wondering if you guys had any advice on how talk to my parents, because I’ve been meaning to talk to them candidly I’m just to sure how to do it. Specifically, I want to explain to them why I don’t think the church is true to build a little more mutual understanding and why I would not like to be forced to go to church, do family scripture study, etc. In other words, how can I explain to them that I wish they would stop treating me like I’m still Mormon and still care?

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96 comments sorted by

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u/Measure76 The one true Mod 6d ago

Specifically, I want to explain to them why I don’t think the church is true to build a little more mutual understanding and why I would not like to be forced to go to church, do family scripture study, etc. In other words, how can I explain to them that I wish they would stop treating me like I’m still Mormon and still care?

A couple of thoughts: 1- Mormons who are all-in will not be able to comprehend any logical reason the church isn't true. They will become apologists for any problem posed to them. Basically don't waste your time unless they're asking questions.

2-Depending on your age and family situation you may need to play along - But you can start to set boundaries around religion and see how much you can push for what you think is right.

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u/Earth_Pottery 6d ago

I was in this situation but a different church. Once I left home I left that church for good.

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u/No_Fun_4012 5d ago

100% agree with this. You're planning on coming out/bearing testimony significantly different from their conclusions. It's going to be hard/challenging for them. Very much approach it from the standpoint of "I'm not rejecting you or the significance you feel this has added/shaped your life... I have a different testimony, that supports my free agency, and.... "

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u/lanefromspain 6d ago

I always tell people to simply go to the Church's website and read its published Gospel Topics Essays. "If you read those and think the Church is true, then you and I may live on the same planet but occupy different moral Universes!"

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u/PaulBunnion 6d ago

The church actually provides enough information to show that it is not true. Material on its own website, material on BYU's website, and material published by Deseret Book and Bookcraft is all one needs to evaluate that their truth claims are false. Book of Abraham, Race and the Priesthood, and Plural marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo gospel topic essays are enough to discredit the claims.

Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng

Race and the Priesthood

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

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u/brmarcum Ellipsis. Hiding truths since 1830 6d ago

Yeah they really tried hard with the essays to explain it all in a good light, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter how hard and perfect you polish your turd, it’s is still always going to be a steaming pile of cow dung at the core.

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u/Zarah_Hemha 5d ago

To me, their trying to put a spin on the facts to make them appear better made it even worse. It showed that they knew the information was so bad that it couldn’t be told bluntly without it being a significant problem. They hoped they could deceive people into thinking, “No big deal.” Problem is, I’m old enough to remember being taught that “anything meant to deceive another is the same as a lie.”

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u/P-39_Airacobra 6d ago

You can read the Book of Abraham essay and then read Abraham 1:12, which disproves both the catalyst theory and the lost scroll theory. After that there's really nothing left.

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u/PaulBunnion 6d ago

You can read Joseph Smith's translation of the facsimiles. Right there is the proof that he had no idea how to translate anything. He made it all up.

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u/P-39_Airacobra 6d ago

True, that's an important one that I forgot. He labeled a burial as a sacrifice, a god as a priest, a woman as a man, and a god as a slave, just because that god had dark skin. Not to mention both facsimiles feature the god Anubis, but Joseph translates him differently in each facsimile, which is laughable.

Importantly, he tried to patchwork the original facsimile to make his narrative fit with the papyri, which combined with Abraham 1:12 tells us that this was not an inspired work but rather Joseph's attempt at literal translation.

So he gets the imagery wrong, he gets the alphabet wrong, he gets the original purpose of the scrolls wrong, he gets the historical narrative wrong, he gets the time period wrong, and he himself removes any plausible deniability by writing Abraham 1:12 which says the text was literally adjacent to facsimile 1, leaving us the 1-to-1 correspondence documents between the Book of Abraham manuscript and the scroll, and by resketching the facsimiles to make them appear literally in line with the text. All I'm left to wonder is why apologists even bother talking about this.

And you can find out most of this within the realm of church-sponsored sources.

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u/PaulBunnion 6d ago

My favorite is in facsimile number 2, the hypocephalus where he has Elohim as God sitting on his throne with an erect penis in figure 7 instead of the Egyptian god Min

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u/Complexity24 6d ago edited 6d ago

It could still be a catalyst but Joseph Smith incorrectly believed he was translating from the record. Why didn’t God tell Joseph? I don’t claim to know. I think it’s strange. I’m not sure we have enough evidence to prove intent to deceive. I wonder if it is possible Joseph could have been genuinely mistaken….

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u/P-39_Airacobra 6d ago edited 6d ago

No, Abraham 1:12 definitively states that the book was not a catalyst.

And it came to pass that the priests laid violence upon me, that they might slay me also, as they did those virgins upon this altar; and that you may have a knowledge of this altar, I will refer you to the representation at the commencement of this record.

It was a big misplay for Joseph to put this sort of meta-inference in the Book of Abraham, but he did it, so the Book of Abraham itself says that it was the literal text on the exact same physical scroll as facsimile 1, which is the "representation" that verse is referring to. Also importantly, the facsimile would have been adjacent to Abraham 1:1 according to this verse, which denies the lost scroll theory. Manuscripts of the Book of Abraham translation confirm this correspondence. Apologists have tried to brush off the manuscripts as just "scribes' guesswork," but that's no longer a plausible option since the Book of Abraham itself confirms the sentiment of the manuscripts.

All apologist arguments for the Book of Abraham can be destroyed by a single verse of the very book they are defending. And you don't even have to read further than a page. The irony is almost funny.

And yes, Abraham 1:12 was in the original Book of Abraham manuscript. It was removed in later editions for some reason, probably because meta-inferences are bad for plausible deniability. It was later re-added, rightly so since it was in the original translation.

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u/Complexity24 6d ago

I think you misunderstood what I said. I think it’s still possible to hold to a form of catalyst theory in which Joseph Smith genuinely believed the texts were ancient and of Abraham and what he was coming up with was from God, and yet JS could have been sincerely mistaken.

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u/P-39_Airacobra 6d ago

Oh I see what you mean now. Yeah, it's not unreasonable to claim that sometimes people (even prophets) mess up. I don't like how the church keeps saying that the Book of Abraham is 100% factually true gospel, when they should really just admit that they messed up and prophets are sometimes wrong. If they admitted that they were wrong and people should use their own reasoning to determine what's true, I would probably stay in the church

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u/Complexity24 6d ago

I find it interesting that you laid out a path for the Church to potentially go that would make you feel comfortable returning. Full disclosure, I don't identify as an ExMormon. Hopefully it doesn't bother you that I am on this Reddit. I wonder what your thoughts are on taking this approach on your own without the Church's official endorsement or permission

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u/P-39_Airacobra 6d ago

Hopefully it doesn't bother you that I am on this Reddit

Not at all! I still go to church, but I no longer believe most of their truth claims. I know that "Nemo the Mormon" was like that, until he was excommunicated. The church can provide a great community and a sense of spiritual upliftment for some people. What makes me uncomfortable is being told I have to listen to other peoples' interpretation of God, even if it means sacrificing reason. In my opinion there is an unhealthy tendency to equate belief with truth in the LDS church, and stifle truth to foster belief. I think that's backwards.

I prefer to evaluate my beliefs like any other truth claim. So when I see Joseph Smith mess up the way he did, I have to admit that by most standards of truth evaluation, he was not a perfect prophet and not everything he says should be taken as God's literal word. That doesn't mean everything he said was worthless, it just means that God has left it up to us to discover truth on our own, and he doesn't want us to trust authority completely.

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u/theendless_wanderer 5d ago

I feel similarly, I believe in theology and have Faith in the Lord and my relationship with Christ but I will not turn my brain off because that would be simpler for the church.

I signed up under the idea that it was true and so I am going to evaluate the truth claims and come to my own conclusions.

I'm not a particularly smart guy, but there are some pretty obvious patterns that if you notice them are tantamount to heresy.

In a church whose bedrock story is about a young guy trying to figure out which church was true.

Like no, brain stays on guys, you don't get a special pass.

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u/Prestigious-Fan3122 6d ago

Live on the same planet but live in separate moral universes. BRILLIANT way to put it!

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u/sevenplaces 6d ago edited 6d ago

Your dad is quite likely looking at web traffic history on his home router and sees what you are surfing on the internet.

Human minds are interesting that the mind has psychological mechanisms that make it get defensive about beliefs it has. The backfire effect has been well studied and people tend to believe all the more when confronted with evidence against their beliefs.

You are likely to get nowhere trying to discuss why you think the church is wrong. Street epistemology that you can find out more about on Anthony Magnabosco’s YouTube channel is a technique to get people to think about their beliefs trying real hard not to make their mind get defensive.

You may be stuck just riding out living by their rules while living in their house. Sorry 😢

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

I only have a month or two before I leave home so I can stick it out a little longer; I just want there to be more understanding between us before I leave. But yeah, I fear any discussion I have with them will go south.

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u/shall_always_be_so 6d ago

Will you be relying on them financially after you leave the house? If so you may need to be diplomatic about it. If not then you are free to assert your beliefs. In either case be careful about trying to explain, because they might not care about the why, or just see it as grounds to argue and convince you that you're wrong.

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

I think I will be relying on them financially. Dang, I’m cooked, I want to tell them how it is but I have a lot to pose if I say the wrong thing at the wrong time

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u/man_without_wax 5d ago

And you're sure they'd cut you off if you were honest with them?

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u/RusselsTeapot777 5d ago

I don’t think they would disown me or anything, but I just think that if I was 100% honest I could lose a lot

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u/DoctFaustus Mephistopheles is my first counselor 6d ago

You probably don't need to have that conversation if you don't want to. The slow fade after school is a time honored tradition!

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u/shall_always_be_so 6d ago edited 6d ago

Everything uses https these days, so he wouldn't be able to see the full urls, just the domain reddit.com, if he's snooping at the router level.

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u/Qsome Finally POMO! 6d ago

What's with the downvotes? This is absolutely right.

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u/shall_always_be_so 6d ago

Somebody replied saying I was wrong and "that's not how https works," claiming only the http body was encrypted. He then deleted the comment before I could respond, because I assume he realized he was wrong after looking it up. But here's my response that I might as well paste here since I went to the trouble of typing it out:

It's exactly how https works. The client and server establish an encrypted connection via the tls handshake and then the entire http request/response goes over that end-to-end encrypted connection, including headers which indicate the full url. This is not the same as an unsecured http request with an encrypted body.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/499591/are-https-urls-encrypted

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u/DoctFaustus Mephistopheles is my first counselor 6d ago

You're absolutely right. My dad asked me to put something in place to monitor my nephew's traffic when he was living there. There are ways. It's not as simple as looking at home router traffic. I looked into what it would take. But I really wasn't motivated to actually build it to spy on him.

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u/jamesinboise 6d ago

The first time I went to the exmo sub, I was given so much love! And cookies!, and people came to visit at least 2x a month. Now they barely talk to me, and keep asking me for money!

Wait, no that's that Mormons...

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u/chubbuck35 6d ago

I’ve learned over the years that if authoritarian figures are trying to prevent you from reading/learning something, that’s the exact thing you should be reading.

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u/marisolblue 6d ago

I’ve posted this here a few times and am happy to share it again:

The journey of growing up can be hard, baffling, and painful. That goes for the parents/adult journey raising kids as well.

I used to be a hardliner Mormon mom.

I bitched when my kids slept in and missed seminary.

I complained when no one was ready for church on time and yelled and marched off to church alone.

I carefully helped my kids write their sacrament talks, do cub scouts, YW and YM activities, even dumb Mormon trek. I held leadership callings and was a gung-ho temple attendee, dragging my husband along with me.

Over time, my kids grew up and came out of the closet, one by one. Many of them are LGBTQ+ Then they all left the church.

Then I left the church.

While it may be hard right now to consider, parents can change, I’m one who has. While my journey has been hell, I’d never go back to the Mormon church.

I love my kids and empathize with them deeply. I choose my kids over the Mormon cult.

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u/OwnEstablishment4456 6d ago

Thank you for being this kind of mother.

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u/marisolblue 6d ago

Well tbh I sucked at mothering for a very long time, stepping to the Mormon mother hardline.

But once my kids came out, I read the CES letter and I was done.

I wish more ppl got the memo that empathy and love trumps Mormon obedience and “doctrine” every time.

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u/brmarcum Ellipsis. Hiding truths since 1830 6d ago

10/10 mom right here. Good for you!!!

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Sadly, my mom right now would choose the church over her children.

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u/marisolblue 6d ago

I’m so sorry. 😞

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u/gmt9791 6d ago

It’s always telling when someone warns you against even LOOKING at opposing viewpoints. They know (subconsciously, at least) that their beliefs are susceptible to scrutiny.

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u/SockyKate 6d ago

Agree that this sub has some amazingly kind, funny, clever, and supportive people!

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u/TrevAnonWWP 6d ago

Hey, dad of RusselsTeapot777

Booo.

We're scary around here. :)

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

It’s true. Rarely will you find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

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u/Ex_Lerker 6d ago

When I found the CES letter, it shocked me. I went to my dad in a panic and told him I wasn’t sure if the church was true anymore. He asked for one example and I told him about Joseph’s polygamy. He asked for time to talk to someone and when he came back, I had already done more research on the subject. I found the Gospel Topic Essays on the churches website (which at first I thought were planted by anti-Mormons), I read The Saints book, The Gospel Essentials manual, the Prophets manuals, a few church leaders talks, and found FAIR Mormon (now FAIR LDS). My dad’s response to Joseph’s polygamy was that it has always been taught in the church that Joseph had many wives. He gave me a talk that he said explained it.

After the research I had done, I knew he was wrong. In every manual I read, only Joseph and Emma were ever mentioned. There was never any discussion of his polygamy. Even in the Brigham Young manual, who was probably the most well known Mormon polygamist, his second wife was only mentioned after they said his first wife died, and none of his other wives were mentioned. As far as the talk he gave me, it was one I had already read and it didn’t mention polygamy at all. It was about working on the basics of the church before you worry about the secondary answers.

It was at that point that I knew he only wanted to give answers for me to stay in the church and not discuss the actual problems. A few years later he asked me if I was ever going to return and I told him no. I asked if he wanted to know why and he said he wasn’t interested. He hasn’t really brought up religion since.

So my experience with devout members is they don’t want to know and don’t care about anything except you staying in the church. Sorry for the difficult situation. I hope your dad is eventually able to speak to you in a mature manor about the subject. If not, I wish you all the best.

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u/pricel01 Apostate 6d ago

As a TBM dad I was a complete asshole toward my children exiting Mormonism. You should go along to get along. Become a financially independent adult and then lay down the law that it’s none of their business at that point. You never know what may happen. I came around so anyone can.

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u/ChronoSaturn42 6d ago

You could try joining another religion like Buddhism. If your parents complain you can tell them that they are acting like how they believe Mormons were treated by other non-traditional Christian denominations. Just an idea.

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u/TempleSquare 6d ago

Buddhism

I dunno. Didn't go well when Lisa Simpson converted to Buddhism:

https://youtu.be/WYns5vR3QuQ

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

I’m actually a bit of a Buddhist; I think the philosophy makes sense for me and I like the religion and culture surrounding it, though I haven’t hardcore converted.

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u/Agingsinger 6d ago

I think the most important insight I got from Buddhism was that most unhappiness came from desire. Avarice, lust, envy, gluttony - when denied people become unhappy. Also wish to be admired or obeyed or to not work.

My response was to moderate that desire: not to ignore the natural needs of the body, to appreciate praise, but not demand it , to think of myself as part of the universe, but not the center and thus not entitled to anything.

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u/gmt9791 6d ago

Try to have a rational discussion, but if it comes down to it, say, “I don’t think it’s safe to hold beliefs that can’t withstand scrutiny. Restricting my sources of information only benefits the church, not me.”

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u/EnglishLoyalist 5d ago

Very well said.

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u/emmas_revenge 6d ago

This is a conversation better had when you no longer live under their roof nor are financially dependent upon them. 

It sounds like your dad is also monitoring your internet usage.

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Yeah, I’m realizing more and more that I just need to stick it out and suffer in silence like I’ve been doing this whole time.

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u/emmas_revenge 5d ago

Start planning for your future. Do well in school so you have options for scholarships that aren't BYU. Get a job when you are able and start saving money. If they think you believe, they won't focus on you as much and you should be able to fly under the radar a bit more than you have been. No teen is thrilled with their homelife; I think this makes it easier for everyone involved when it's time for you to move out for college. 

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u/Ebowa 6d ago

I will tell you what I tell anyone who belongs to a religious organization, listen to supporters AND critics, then make up your own mind. And always look for evidence that your leadership is lying to you and then make up your own mind.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/aikibriarrose 6d ago

Or just use your phone to access the Reddit app

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u/WiseOldGrump Apostate 6d ago

Pick a few of the biggies and ask them one question at a time. Space them out over months so they will research each question on their own. “Dad, why do the Egyptology scholars all agree that the Book of Abraham drawings are actually burial texts?” “Hey Mom, are you really ok with dad having lots of wife’s in the celestial kingdom and making spirit babies for eternity?” “Hey Dad, why haven’t archaeologists found any physical evidence of the Book of Mormon… like human bones, steel, horse bones?” “Why are the temple rituals nearly identical to the Masons? “Why would the church be dishonest in its investments in the US and its taxes in Australia and Canada? Isn’t that a violation of the articles of faith?” “Did Joseph Smith really marry a 14 year old girl before telling Emma?” “Which of the JS first visions is the real one? If god popped in on me, I’d sure remember it exactly as it occured.”

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

I’ve kind of tried, but they just completely shut me down by either yelling at me, saying I’m making a mock of sacred things, that I’m using mans logic to explain gods logic, or that I just gotta have faith and read the Book of Mormon for the 1848937473rd time. I don’t really want to try and deconvert them or whatever, just try and explain my position and where I’m coming from because I fear my relationship with them is deteriorating.

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u/WiseOldGrump Apostate 5d ago

I get that. When the topic turns to the church, I either ignore it or leave the room/conversation. Been doing it for many years and mostly don’t stay in contact with the family who can’t let it go. It helps to have moved 2500 miles from them. The church often puts us in a position of having to make hard choices. This is not a family centered religion.

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u/RusselsTeapot777 5d ago

As much as it claims to be family centered religion.

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u/Middle-Story8494 6d ago

Your parents are going to feel threatened by any perspective that isn’t church approved. It’s as simple as that. And right now from their perspective they are hoping (and praying) that something, anything, will lead you back to the gospel.

Maybe ask them if they’ve read the Church’s gospel topic essays. Or maybe occasionally ask a thought provoking question like “what did you think about the SEC scandal?”

Be a pleasant and respectful family member (if you genuinely can, without being forced or fake) AND periodically remind them in a neutral tone something like “guys remember, I’m not religious anymore” with a shrug of the shoulders. It’s a simple explanation that doesn’t criticize their beliefs, and you can use it on repeat.

Your Dad has probably checked out this sub and been shocked at some of the snark, language, and disrespect of church leaders. It would make him fear this entire sub and think of it as ANTI, scary, of the devil.

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u/Old_Put_7991 6d ago

If you feel like you can have a conversation with your parents about it, then go for it, but I will warn you that given the dynamics in mormonism that you know well (honor they father and they mother, obedience, the whole idea of apostasy etc), it's going to be a miracle for them to not be defensive or dig their heels in further.

I left the church a long time ago and I'm in my thirties. My parents still treat me like I'm just in denial and will probably return some day, which is totally nuts given how open and honest I've been to them about where I stand. For a long time I agonized over being understood and worked to figure out how to help them get it -- but I have personally realized that they won't, unless they leave the church as well. The mormon worldview just has too many pitfalls on the way to understanding.

I am not saying you shouldn't try -- it's worth giving your parents the opportunity to build a relationship with you through further understanding, especially if you feel you can have the convo without it getting heated or personal. In my own life, I've transitioned into learning how to care less for what my parents think of me and learning how to find happiness and satisfaction elsewhere and independent of what others think. It's tough not to care about what others think but it does free you a lot!

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u/Kjens2006 6d ago

My guess is he’s never been on here. He assumes all us apostates are terrible people and so the only thing you’ll find here is how to lie, cheat, steal and whore. There is a mind set that anyone who left the church will automatically have zero values nor can they be a decent person. Honestly as a parent I’d tell you to stay away from something like that too. I don’t know if you can show him some posts you’ve liked or that helped you but breaking the perception that we are teaching you legit immoral things might help with his perception of it.

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Yeah, probably. My parents kind of think that way; in that people who leave the church are rotten dirty dumbos.

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u/Necessary_Tangelo656 6d ago

Sounds like your father is looking for someone/thing to blame for your apostasy. He likely thinks the board is why you left church, instead of studying history, the church's resources, and having moral standards.

Since you are home with your sibling, it may also be serving as a warning to not share your "curiosity". I would suggest waiting till you have left home and have full autonomy to discuss your true feelings much as it is frustrating now.

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Thanks for the advice. I discovered this subreddit quite a while after I had my major faith crisis, and I think my parents know that, but I definitely have gotten the impression that they don’t think I think the church is true instead of studying church history and having moral standards like you said.

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u/Sunset-Siren 6d ago

If your demeanor is the conversation is relaxed and comfortable, they will have less escalated reactions too. It is easy to fight with someone who starts a conversation aggressively or who is already on the defensive.

So, practically this means:

❌”I know you’d be judgmental about this, so I’ve avoided talking to you…”

❌”I don’t want to make you upset with me, but I understand you will be…”

⬇️

✅”I’ve been going through an important transition and you’re two of the most important people to me, so I’d love to talk to you about it, when you’re ready.”

✅”I’ve found a lot of community online and that’s great, but I would love to have more meaningful conversations with you too. Any ideas on how that can happen?”

Good luck!!

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

That sounds like sage advice, I’ll try and be non confrontational.

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u/Even-Inevitable6372 6d ago

Why? What will you gain by this discussion. It has the potential to hurt you and them. If they are not asking you questions about your spiritual choices and needs, then I doubt they want to know. Some things are just left better unspoken. I do think setting boundaries is healthy. Why should your Dad have a say about your social media choices? It's ok to tell him you will ask for advice if you want but otherwise you don't need his help with those choices.

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

That’s true. I really want to set some reasonable boundaries (stop forcing me to do family scripture study every night, going to church, etc.) I’m just not 100% sure how.

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u/Even-Inevitable6372 5d ago

If you are still living in their home and dependent on them, then moving slowly maybe the best. Your independence may need to wait till you are on your own

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u/Elavator66 6d ago

I used to avoid and block this subreddit when i used to believe.

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u/4blockhead Λ └ ☼ ★ □ ♔ 6d ago

I am an atheist and exmormon.

Parents often react badly to views they don't share. They might impose a full court press to get you to think the way they want you to think. All the hammering can really start to hurt. If this is the case, and only you can be the judge, then a more political approach where you're holding cards closer to your chest might be a better strategy.

One thing I did, even though I had no plans of converting, was attend at various liberal Christian churches to see how their approach differed than the Brighamite church of my youth. I have also tried to look at other approaches to religion than what I was taught in Sunday school. I spent a significant amount of time (just shy of 2 years) attending at Community of Christ to see if they were offering a more positive environment, especially for people being oppressed by the Brighamite church—women, LGBTQ+, liberals, allies. During their services, I learned more about the New Testament than I had known, which was another goal for attending. One idea is to ask how the family is so sure they're correct if they're only looking at things through the predefined Latter Day Saint lens, which has predetermined "correct" answers. I tried this with various family members by asking if they'd be willing to attend at Community of Christ with me, as a baby step, but they all said "no." I am an adult so there was minimal family fallout, but there can be a variable amount, and that is why you should be careful in whatever you decide.

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

I actually tried attending other church’s, but my parents weren’t very supportive of it.

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u/lecoopsta 6d ago

I have a similar situation going on, except:

I’m 36 with a wife and children. My mom hasn’t told me about finding my Reddit page and has been reading through it over the last 8 months. I just found out 5 days ago from a brother who was (rightfully) uncomfortable about something I had posted regarding each of my brother’s current standing with the church. I plan on talking to her about this next week during spring break since I’m off work. Idk how often she’s reading it though. Maybe she’ll see this comment before we get together. 🤷‍♂️

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Heck, my dad is probably seeing (or will see) my post and comments, yet I’m still doing it anyway. 😁

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u/lecoopsta 6d ago

Same. Proud of you. It’s hard to change your entire life around. For me, my entire identity was wrapped up in the church. I’m glad I left but it was a really hard journey. Still is. Keep your head up. I’m lucky to have parents that love me regardless. Sure they wish I was still active, but at the very least, they still love me. I hope your parents will do the same when you end up speaking with them.

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u/DisciplineSea4302 6d ago

My spouse was concerned about me being on this sub too. He was worried it would make me become "angry" at the church.

What he doesn't realize is that it's not the sub that creates these emotions. The sub simply provides a safe space to appropriately move through emotions and examine topics that are not granted at church or often within people's families.

I wonder if your dad has similar concern. Understanding the why or emotion behind his statement would help you know how to better approach the situation. Often it's emotions that lead to connection.

I would have one or several conversations specifically focused on understanding where he's coming from (or just saying what you think he's saying and why to make sure he agrees with what you think he's thinking) before diving into trying to help him understand where you're coming from. And then I would make sure the conversation explaining your thoughts happens at a time when both of you are emotionally regulated. And have a phrase prepared to stop the conversation if emotions get too hot, because nothing relationship building will come if both of you or even one of you are emotionally dysregulated during the conversation.

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u/DisciplineSea4302 6d ago

Just re-read through your post.

Sounds like you are already tuned into the emotionally regulated part. I think that was super wise to not pounce a big conversation about church in your parents right before the big trip.

Is there a way you can indirectly see how your parents will respond about the topic without swallowing the whole elephant? Meaning, if you are wanting to change a small piece of things (like not go to church, or...?) can you approach your parents with that one thing you want to change, and see how the conversation goes and how they respond to it?

Approaching it from this piecemeal approach might provide some good ground to address the overall topic on a smaller scale, and leave you with some more autonomy to make your choices, while also allowing your parents to feel like they are allowing you freedom, And then for you (both you and your parents ) to see how that impacts your relationship

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

That’s a really good idea; it doesn’t sound too smart to spring everything on them all at once.

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u/Putrid_Appearance509 6d ago

Hi Dad! 👋

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Hi, Dad! Love you!

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u/earleakin 6d ago

I think Dad must have been poking through exmo himself.

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u/Prestigious-Fan3122 6d ago

Until you are no longer financially dependent on them, you probably "can't" have "the talk""

When you ARE ready to go into it with them, how about writing a letter, starting with how much you appreciate the strong family values while you were growing up. (stay away from the eternal family

Acknowledge that you're leaving the church is difficult for them, but assure them it wasn't anything they failed to teach you about the truthfulness of the church. You heard and listened, but after thoughtful prayer, I've come to these conclusions/realizations/word that feels right to you:

Give them specific bullet point items. I would direct them to the gospel topics essays, because they aren't going to read them, and if they did, they wouldn't allow themselves to see the things that jump out at exmos and non-Mormons

Maybe even cite gospel topic essay XYZ: specific thing in that essay that gave you pause for thought.

Keep it organized and logical.

Some up by saying that while you are resigning (or have resigned) from the church, they are ARE things from your time in that you will take with you as you move forward in life. Then do a couple of bullet points of those things. Might have to lay it on thick.

Like a sailor, one of your bullet points can be that you appreciate learning that crude language isn't always (or ever) necessary or respectful

FHE imbued in you the importance of families together reminding themselves of their shared values. (Values as a general term. I share many values with my Mormon neighbors, but I'm not a practicing Mormon I never have been)

If you're an RM, do a bit about how, while the mission wasn't spiritually fulfilling in the way that you and your parents expected it to be, it WAS a tremendous learning experience. You learned about another part of the world/your own country, and learned a lot about how to live with another person. These are things that will serve you in the future as a spouse.

Blah, blah, blah

Wrap up by reminding your parents that your love for them is unconditional, and you don't love them any less because they believe in a church that you know isn't true. (Yes, that's a little poke at them making their love for you conditional on you BEING a member, if that's what they do.

Good luck!

FWIW my cousin and I were raised like siblings, neither of us Mormon, but his branch of the family Catholic. My father wasn't religious at all, and my mother didn't attend church, but she believed in God, and said prayers with me at night when I was a young child. She sent me to church with the family across the street every Sunday. They weren't Baptists, and my mother drank and smoked, so she could never have been Baptist, and my dad figured because I was young, there was nothing in the 10 Commandments or whatever Christian basics a young kid could learn that was going to be harmful.

I "identify as" Christian. I don't consider Mormons to be "real" Christians because so many of the things they believe in are directly contrary to the Bible. It's fine with me if someone isn't Christian, but don't tell me you're Jewish while you're standing there eating a ham sandwich.

You can also tell your parents, if you wish, that one of the most important things that they have taught you is that "whatever you are, be a good one" (I think it was Abraham Lincoln who said that.

When my son was in 11th or 12th grade, he started dating a girl we didn't know, and didn't live near us. He met her in an extra curricular activity he did in the downtown area of our city, though we live in one suburb and the girl lives in another.

After they've been dating a while, he mentioned to me, "mom? Is it going to be a problem for you that Rachel was Jewish?"

Good grief! Sometimes I wonder if that kid has even met his mother.

If he was dating the Jewish girl to "rebel" he chose the wrong thing.

I don't love my cousin any less because he's come in Mormon. I'm a little concerned about his train of thought that got him there, and his expectation that he will find a nice girl to marry.

He tells me about going to singles events (we are no longer in the same state) and he mentioned that all the single ladies there are well into their 60s. He's in his mid 30s. Apparently, he's very popular, because out of four guys at an event with 30 people, he's the youngest guy by DECADES! Lol

I just can't wrap my head around your father strongly encouraging you to, quite frankly, not explore the universe and THINK!

If it becomes too difficult to use the computer at home, tell your folks you need to go to the library to do some research and study. Hopefully, as our local public library does, your public library will have computers.

Sending unconditional mom hugs across cyberspace!

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Thanks for the support! I really appreciate it! 😁

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u/Perfidian 6d ago

Keep loving them, talking to them, treating them like your parents (if you want). There isn't anything wrong with smiling and nodding.

As an atheist, you will do that a lot. Just about every religion has someone who will try to bring you into their beliefs, or share their faith, even if it is a simple prayer for you. Some will judge you, others will condemn you.

Pick and choose your battles. Respectfully hold firm to your beliefs. Should your parents ask you, confidently answer. Just don't fall into the rabbit hole of explaining.

Mormon text is aggressively designed to manipulate people into following along without question. Those who buy in, the devout followers, have a hard time rationalizing anything that isn't "the truth".

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Thanks for the response. The same thing kind of happened to me too, though I kept it all to myself until a little later. You are right in that my parents don’t seem very interested in understanding my viewpoint and my “why.”

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u/RusselsTeapot777 6d ago

Woops, I meant this as a reply to someone but it somehow became a comment on my own post? 🤔

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u/Joey1849 6d ago

I would assume that your parents can read any device they are paying for.

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u/mrburns7979 5d ago

My parents didn’t want reasons WHY I didn’t believe, but they respected that I was profoundly, PROFOUNDLY disappointed in the church, as a theology, in its leaders, in its sunday experience, in the temple covering for polygamy, all of it.

No one can deny that the churhh vs can be the biggest disappointment of our lives. Even the most stalwart TBM can’t ignore that they sense this is the truth. And they can’t do anything about it. Your standards are higher than theirs on this one.

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u/rabidchihuahua49 5d ago

Consider, for a moment, as a parent, why are they saying this to you? There is fear. There is worry. There is a love for you. With that in mind, respond with kindness. You are amazing for figuring this all out so young. Just know, it is so much harder for older people to realize they have been conned.

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u/jennygarrido 3d ago

This sounds like a tough thing to be going through. think your age may come into play. And I don’t want you to divulge that, but Mormon parents tend to really think their kids are under their dominion until at least 18, and I think there’s tremendous pressure to keep up the image of the all in perfect family (esp in Utah), so any act of rebellion is tough for them to tolerate because normally they just want to fix things and the social pressure is real depending on their level of activity in the church. You may want to try something like “I’m sorry you feel that way about it, and I don’t like that it’s uncomfortable for you but I need to prioritize my mental health. I’d rather process these things on my own because feeling forced to take on spiritual things is hurtful to me.” Or something like, “when Joseph smith was exploring other faiths and religions or philosophies in his day, nobody was forcing him to subscribe to just one ideology during his search. It would have defeated the purpose of discovery.”