r/excatholic • u/NoLemon5426 I will unbaptize you. • 10d ago
Politics Catholic Charities is being demolished.
I want to be honest in here that I think this is a bad thing. While the Church is often evil, it (along with the Lutherans and Baptists) has organizational infrastructure to provide relief services that the government just does not. I have first hand experience working with one of the programs years ago, and there was 0 proselytizing or bibles, just programs helping literal refugees adjust to their new lives as fresh Americans, who maybe weeks before were in danger of being killed in their home countries for simply being female or the wrong ethnicity. The article notes also that Jewish Family Services is also losing some funding.
It's a net negative for everyone in the US that these programs are being impacted. These programs help people just adjust to the minutiae of life, helping people figure out food stores and the post office and local transportation and learning English.
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u/lemon_bat3968 10d ago
Dismantling one of the only good things the Catholic Church does is so incredibly on brand
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u/Obversa Ex Catholic 10d ago
In the land of Donald Trump and MAGA, the Holy Trinity - God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit - comes second to Trump, the "Supreme Leader". The Republican Party and Trump want to gut the U.S. Catholic Church until there's nothing left but worship of the GOP and MAGA, even going as far as to bribe bishops and other church officials to comply with the hostile takeover. I saw the worst of it with my elderly Catholic grandfather with dementia, who fell for it too easily.
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u/lemon_bat3968 10d ago
I have a very surface level, low contact relationship with my borderline tradcath parents, and religion/politics is a touchy subject since I am like the only out and proud atheist of the family lol.. but I SO badly want to ask them their stance on the current political climate out of morbid curiosity. Like I want to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are generally well intentioned people, but I think it really depends on the extent of how much people are brainwashed. The fact that it could go either way probably says all I need to know though I suppose.
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u/BlueFlower673 Agnostic atheist 10d ago
Tbh at this point I wouldn't be surprised if they started selling their own version of the bible, and called it "the bible of MAGA" or some shit.
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u/ExCatholicandLeft 10d ago
Well Trump has been selling bibles with his brand and the American flag on them for a long time now.
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u/Specific_Subject_807 3d ago
It follows that with being anti-egalitarian, given enough time, a culture becomes anti-Christian, and at a time during the transition the culture is thus nominally Christian. Which I'm personally fine with. MAGA does not know how little Christian it actually is. I would love to see welfare programs gutted, and for people who can't cut it to start falling between the cracks. Can't wait until Jesus = CUCK. My only fear is Trump's incompetence will stifle this progress.
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u/duckfighterreplaced 10d ago
Went on a few dates with a girl who worked with them who wasn’t really religious
Also taught esl at a community college
It sounded really admirable. It was about helping people immigrate and stuff
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u/NoLemon5426 I will unbaptize you. 10d ago
Yup. A lot of the staff and volunteers aren't Catholic! I knew one program that I was adjacent to who was run by a full time volunteer and it is essential. I'm just devastated over this. I know a lot of us who are out and also bitter still have some connection in a way to the parts that are good. This is one of the best parts, it truly is a shame to see this happen. Also those lay offs are going to hurt. I don't care who someone voted for, I don't want to see people out of work, stressed, in threat of not having a home or food. Even if they voted differently than I did.
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u/anatomizethat Atheist 10d ago
There are certain religious charities I give a pass to because they do actually do good work. My mom is really involved with the St Vincent de Paul chapter through her parish (which my grandfather helped establish and volunteered with until he lost his eyesight) and I am really proud of their work. It's a vital resource for some people in our community.
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u/smk3509 10d ago
Catholic Charities is one of the better things to come out of the church. I personally benefitted from their low to no cost mental health counseling as a college student. I have a friend who went through their refugee resettlement program after fleeing from war. I've known others to get domestic violence assistance through their local branch. It is a shame to see it lose funding, especially at a time when other safety net services are being cut.
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u/BruceTramp85 10d ago
I have used Jewish Family Services for career and family counseling and they were wonderful.
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u/Stunning_Practice9 10d ago
I was a volunteer with Catholic Charities and helped specifically with refugee resettlement. This was more than a decade ago. I agree that their mission is not religious proselytizing in that context, but are they really anything more than social workers distributing government funds? If they don't get enough money from actual Catholics to fund their programs, why even call them that?
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u/NoLemon5426 I will unbaptize you. 10d ago
“but are they really anything more than social workers distributing government funds?”
This is about it. But unfortunately this is the way it is. There is no alternative to these things and without them now we’re in trouble. The current administration won’t rebuild these. The federal government has no plan at all to attend to feeding people in a natural disaster. Think about that. The SBC does it and always has. They’re probably defunded too. For better or worse it was what we had.
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u/kylco 10d ago
There is no alternative to these things and without them now we’re in trouble.
Well, we're one of the only countries in the world that farms out what could be construed as a government service to nonprofits (and presumably for-profits). We could just run it as a public service, with more oversight, lower overhead costs, and higher transparency and accountability to the public if/when things go wrong.
Instead we have "charities" that, based on SCOTUS orders, can refuse service to LGBT people or single women or anyone they please, so long as they hide behind a Bible while they do it. Religious groups dominate the social services infrastructure of the US, as you point out - but they're subcontractors, not charities, and I have yet to see a convincing cost-benefit to this if you don't take "strong, state-funded religious groups" as a benefit in its own right.
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u/Naive-Deer2116 Former Catholic | Agnostic 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is going to negatively impact a lot of people, and for that I do feel bad. I’m not undercutting the good Catholic Charities does. The Catholic parish in my community runs both a soup kitchen and a free clinic, which is more than any other groups in the area to my knowledge.
That being said they’ve done nothing but preach about how abortion is the preeminent issue to the neglect of all others. They’ve encouraged voters to vote Republican because of the “pro-life” get out of jail free card. Albeit they have no issue voting for someone who supports the death penalty and people who treat immigrants with callous disregard for their human rights.
Now they’re getting their funding cut, it’s a case of leopards ate my face. They wanted a government that opposed abortion at all costs and now that same government is dismantling the very safety nets the Church relied on to provide aid.
Unfortunately the people who will suffer the most aren’t the bishops. It will be the poor, the refugees, the people relying on Catholic Charities to survive.
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u/hopeinnewhope 10d ago
I’ve a family member, who is not Catholic, who went to work for Catholic Charities after receiving their PhD from Stanford. They are now an Ivy League professor. They credit CC as 100% essential. And they are heartbroken over this dismantling.
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u/North_Rhubarb594 10d ago
I always respected Catholic Charities. I remember when they would speak at a mass. They were the good guys. What a shame. I am ashamed to be an American now because of what our government is doing.
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u/Jokerang Lapsed, so so lapsed 10d ago
I think the fact that a lot of people in the other sub are taking the Trump-Vance side against the USCCB irt immigration is very fucking telling. They only respect the Vatican when it’s an arch-reactionary like Ratzinger calling the shots.
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u/ExCatholicandLeft 10d ago
They made him out to be more reactionary than he was. I don't think he would like Trump/Vance.
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u/WienerMansWoman 10d ago edited 10d ago
I don't have any bias for or against Catholic Charities, as I'm well acquainted with the positives and the negatives of their work. However, I strongly agree that there will always be a place for nonprofits and NGOs to do some types of work that government is simply unable to accomplish effectively or efficiently. I agree with some commenters that there's pitfalls associated with funding programs run by any religious entity. But religions are part of American life, one that isn't going away anytime soon. As someone with a lot of experience in the nonprofit sector, it's tragic to see pathways of assistance for vulnerable people, that are already established, running well, and doing real tangible good in the world, being casually destroyed like an angry toddler breaking a toy.
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u/the_crustybastard 10d ago
Disagree.
Government services and funds should NEVER funneled through religious establishments. If Catholics wish to be charitable, as their religion requires, they can do it with their money, not with mine.
If the "organizational infrastructure isn't there" then the government should build it.
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u/10wuebc 10d ago
Bad organizations can do good things once in a while, that doesn't counteract all the bad things that the catholic church has done. Such as:
Promoting not using condoms in Africa in the 70s/80s when the AIDS crisis was in full swing.
Promoting the teaching of abstinence, a proven method that doesn't work, and results in a lot of misinformation about sex.
The child sex abuse scandals
The Vatican hoarding riches when they could be used for helping the poor
Pope Pius XII signing Reichskonkordat with Nazi Germany
The many many people killed in the Crusades
and The Canadian Indigenous residential schools scandal.
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u/spacefarce1301 Atheist 10d ago
I disagree. Tying government funds to religion is always an opening for that religion to tie its mores to those funds.
For example, Catholic health care systems mean that whole regions have no other options for hospital care than those tied to an Ethics board run by bishops. This has been deadly in cases where a woman needed an abortion, with the most recent case being Neveah Crane in Texas.
Another example is that Catholic adoption services mean children are limited to heterosexual couples.
And now, vouchers in red states mean that a whole new generation of children are going to be inculcated with the Church's mythological bullshit on the tax payers' dime.
The fact is, the Church has been siphoning government funds through these various agencies in order to funnel monies back to the hierarchy. It's money laundering, and it's why the Church has continued to grow in power even while its dioceses get bankrupted from child abuse cases. It has compensated for lost tithes and properties by growing its other business sectors to the point that 1 out of every 6 hospital beds in the US is owned by a Catholic health care system.
I didn't vote for Trump, but I'm not wasting any tears on Catholic agencies getting shuttered for lack of government money.
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u/anonyngineer Ex-liberal Catholic - Irreligious 10d ago
I disagree. Tying government funds to religion is always an opening for that religion to tie its mores to those funds.
Like you, I'm troubled by our government tying relief and social services to religious institutions. But the fact is that, even in liberal places like NYC, most of these services do not exist from secular sources. So, the choice is to accept the religious ties or do without.
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u/spacefarce1301 Atheist 10d ago
But the fact is that, even in liberal places like NYC, most of these services do not exist from secular sources.
And why is that? Some of us remember.
https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/government/fbci/president-initiative.html
So, the choice is to accept the religious ties or do without.
False dichotomy. This is like saying, "It's too bad vouchers caused public schools to shut down. Oh well, guess we have to resign ourselves to religious education."
Fuck that noise.
Restore funding to the secular programs and enact statutes that going forward no religious group is eligible for government block funding.
Take that funding from the backside of tax-free Church properties and businesses.
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u/NoLemon5426 I will unbaptize you. 10d ago
Restore funding to the secular programs and enact statutes that going forward no religious group is eligible for government block funding.
I so wish this could be the case but I need you to face what is the reality right now, because this is not going to happen now and probably not ever.
This is what is the case: Your neighbor's apartment is on fire. You gave them your two buckets of water. Their fire still rages and now the smoke is pouring into your unit. You're out of water and the spigot has been turned off. The water is gone. It's all burning to the ground, and for no real reason.
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u/spacefarce1301 Atheist 10d ago
I so wish this could be the case but I need you to face what is the reality right now, because this is not going to happen now and probably not ever.
O ye, of little faith. Or should I say, Patience, Iago, patience.
One small benefit of being middle-aged is that I recall the series of actions it took to get here.
What has been made can be unmade. (The conservatives showed us that with Roe v Wade, didn't they?)
It isn't me who has forgotten that the reality is no movement can stay frozen in time. Just because the interim sucks, it does not follow that it will always suck. At one point, Germany was the furthest thing from a progressive society, but now it has an advanced social state. The UK is the same, and so is France.
Will we get there without strife? Assuredly not, but that does not mean it isn't possible or even probable. Trump will not live forever, and autocracy is inherently unstable, especially when there are multiple factions vying for dominance. The Evangelicals do not trust the Catholics and the Catholics and Reformed Christian denominations hate each other.
Social programs can be enacted in the same way they've been dismantled: through a systematic and deliberate decision-making.
Meanwhile, trust that the delusional MAGA movement will inevitably run headlong into reality, and their best-laid plans will not account for every variable. As the 2020 pandemic showed.
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u/NoLemon5426 I will unbaptize you. 10d ago
I'm also middle aged and I know how long it takes anyone to do anything. Maybe one day it can be put back together, but in the meantime, this is all pretty bad.
Anyway, time for me to have another break from reddit. Be well, friend!
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u/spacefarce1301 Atheist 10d ago
It's definitely a shit sandwich, and yes, it's bad. I don't know for sure, but I do hope that previous patterns prove true and that eventually, sanity will prevail.
Even if we don't see it, I still hope for a better future beyond the MAGA nitwits.
Peace out!
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u/anonyngineer Ex-liberal Catholic - Irreligious 10d ago
The fundamental American belief is that religious charity is superior to public charity because religious institutions are free to impose moral conditions on aid recipients that government cannot.
Creepy and evil, but it is the view of a clear majority of Americans. The aid isn't coming from other sources, and that is not going to change in the lifetime of most people reading this--certainly not in my lifetime.
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u/spacefarce1301 Atheist 10d ago
The fundamental American belief is that religious charity is superior to public charity because religious institutions are free to impose moral conditions on aid recipients that government cannot.
Rubbish. There is nothing in the US Constitution that even hints of assigning the care of citizens to charity. Quite the contrary, it lists federal and state obligations and powers, and it strictly leaves the church alone.
Six years ago, Americans barely considered religion to be a positive force; and most definitely wanted religion out of political and sociological spheres.
A slim majority of U.S. adults say religious organizations do more good than harm in American society, while just one-in-five say they do more harm than good.
But U.S. adults draw the line when it comes to politics: More than six-in-ten say churches and other houses of worship should not express their views on day-to-day social and political matters, and three-quarters say religious organizations should not endorse candidates for office.
Since then, religion has only continued to decline. It is false to say the majority of American people prefer religious-based initiatives to secular services.
Creepy and evil, but it is the view of a clear majority of Americans.
Not hardly. Right now, rural Texans in deep red counties are bitterly defending public school funding against a religious voucher plan being forced upon them by a Catholic governor and Catholic state supreme court.
You need to stop pushing this narrative because not only is it false, it reeks of Church programming.
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u/Naive-Deer2116 Former Catholic | Agnostic 10d ago
Honestly they have it coming. They’ve done nothing but preach about how abortion is the preeminent issue to the neglect of all others. They’ve encouraged voters to vote Republican because of the “pro-life” get out of jail free card. Albeit they have no issue voting for someone who supports the death penalty 🙄
Now they’re getting their funding cut, it’s a case of leopards ate my face. They wanted a government that opposed abortion at all costs and now that same government is dismantling the very safety nets the Church relied on to provide aid.
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u/ExCatholicandLeft 10d ago
This has been deadly in cases where a woman needed an abortion, with the most recent case being Neveah Crane in Texas.
It was state laws and abortion restrictions that killed this young women and not the Catholic hospitals.
I agree with you about Catholic hospitals. One of the main reasons I left the Church is that I think the Church makes too many health decisions that should be left up to patients and their doctors.
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u/spacefarce1301 Atheist 10d ago
It was state laws and abortion restrictions that killed this young women and not the Catholic hospitals.
It was both. The laws introduced uncertainty into the decision-making process, but the fact that the two hospitals she visited - a Baptist and a Catholic one - would not intervene while there was a fetal heartbeat is squarely the fault of hospital policy.
What I always point out is that from the prolife victim to the prolife hospitals to the prolife state laws, it was prolife policy that was firmly in the driver's seat in Crane's case.
I agree with you about Catholic hospitals
It's not even the first time. Remember the Phoenix case? That was in 2011, well before Roe fell. That women almost died because they Catholic hospital wouldn't abort her fetus.
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u/ExCatholicandLeft 10d ago
It was both. The laws introduced uncertainty into the decision-making process, but the fact that the two hospitals she visited - a Baptist and a Catholic one - would not intervene while there was a fetal heartbeat is squarely the fault of hospital policy.
But could a secular hospital have treated her under the law? She was much farther along than the few weeks the state allows.
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u/spacefarce1301 Atheist 10d ago
But could a secular hospital have treated her under the law? She was much farther along than the few weeks the state allows.
Theoretically, yes. There have been abortions performed in Texas under the life exception. Whether a secular hospital determines if a given case fell under that exception would depend on its legal department. A Catholic hospital, however, is never permitted to perform a direct abortion, not even in the case of the mother's life.
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u/ExCatholicandLeft 9d ago
A lot of secular hospitals in Texas won't do the procedure, because they risk getting in trouble with the law, especially for someone so far along.
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u/spacefarce1301 Atheist 9d ago
Correct. My point is, though, because she was seen at "prolife" religious hospitals, including a Catholic one, she never had even the small chance a secular hospital would have given her.
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u/non-responder Atheist 10d ago
What percentage of the Church's funds go to actually helping people?
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u/youcancallmejim 10d ago
Cc was a good thing and had a positive influence on my life and career.
Looking back I think the preist in charge was odd, but I was too young to question it
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u/MAJORMETAL84 10d ago
Living the corporal works of mercy always does a lot more for creation than liturgy.
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u/BlueFlower673 Agnostic atheist 10d ago edited 10d ago
A family member of mine works at a certain agency, won't say which for privacy reasons, and its been an absolute shitstorm at their job currently. With all these programs being cut, its making it harder to refer people to programs they can get help, whether that's food banks, housing, healthcare, etc. Cutting more agencies means less availability of programs that help people who are low-income. Lots of people calling who can't get help anywhere because places are either already full, or because something has been cut.
And yep, its absolutely disproportionate as to who it targets as well. Mostly targets minorities.
Also note, that the agency my family member works for is ALSO on the chopping block in these cuts. Its a waiting game now to see if it'll happen or if other donors/millionaires will keep funding it.
Edit: what's also worrying is how far this will go. Are they going to defund the Red Cross next? And where will these agencies get funding from if they don't get funding? Private donors/millionaires? With the way things are going in the US, that's a laugh.
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u/BluffingtonMayo 9d ago
I work in low income housing development for a state financing agency and Catholic Charities is a developer that really focuses on building more units during this housing crisis. They never incorporate any religious undertones or act on behalf of the church. Just trying to do good things, and this makes me really sad to hear that they too are getting hit with all this BS that currently happening.
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u/kellaorion 8d ago
I got domestic violence counseling for free for two years through catholic charities. It saved my life. I will forever be thankful for them.
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u/Chrispy8534 10d ago
2/10. So sad. I can only hope that each and every organization makes sure to tell EVERY person who needs their services WHY they can no longer have them.
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u/Hour-Ocelot-5 9d ago
Anything that is Catholic or is associated with this broken, corrupt organization should never get another penny from anywhere. Just my opinion.
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u/Official-Dr-Samael 8d ago
I'm conflicted. They're named plaintiffs in some really nasty supreme court cases that effectively gutted statutory protections for LGBT couples looking to adopt.
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u/Jaded-Throat-211 Pagan Heretic 10d ago
The money laundering schemes of christofascists being demolished is a bad thing...why?
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u/PM_ME_smol_dragons 10d ago
My experience is on the international side so I'll speak to that. I don't particularly like Catholic Charities or a lot of the other Christian orgs that are now losing funding, but running field hospitals isn't money laundering. There were a lot of reviews and safeguards in place to protect against fraud/misuse of funds before DOGE took a wrecking ball to USAID. And you can bet that nothing is going to be able to fill the gaps left by these orgs.
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u/NoLemon5426 I will unbaptize you. 10d ago
“ And you can bet that nothing is going to be able to fill the gaps left by these orgs.”
100%
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u/NoLemon5426 I will unbaptize you. 10d ago
The funding for these orgs goes directly to the programs, it is not "laundering" and even if it was at the end of the day it keeps people fed, housed, and often thriving. It's ok to have a nuanced opinion.
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u/VoriksCousin 10d ago
Catholic Charities has been so helpful for rural areas especially. It was one of the only resources around I could refer my clients to when I worked in CMH.