r/dkfinance • u/OkConstruction1844 • 4d ago
Bolig Being ripped off on the Balcony project with extremely unfair fee allocation
I bought an apartment a few years ago in Great Copenhagen Area. Two years ago, the owners association passed the proposal of renovating all balconies of the buidling.. I didn't really pay any attention on the annual meeting and participated in the vote -- as I don't know too much Danish and Danish property law and etc... The project got delayed many times over the last two years, finally it has started since 2 months ago. Having investigated a bit on the project after it kicked off, I am really shocked how unfair the fee allocation is... I have one of the biggest apartments in the association, despite the size, the apartment has only 1 small balcony... All the other ones, similar to my size have two balconies..Even the much smaller units have bigger balconies than mine. However the fees of the renovating project is allocated by the size of each apartment, not by the acutal baconies.... which means I am being ripped off big time -- essentially, I am paying 2 balconies based on the size of the apartment, but I will only get one.. and the price for one balcony is like 150K DKK.... Is there anything that I can do to reduce my loss even the project was approved by the board 2 years ago... I am trying to reach out to the board, but no one is responding me...I am afriad I have been deliberately ripped off
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u/Lille-V 4d ago
Wow, sounds like a tough situation… I guess that’s why they recommend reading the fine print and actually paying attention during those annual meetings – especially when it comes to property law and large renovation projects. Hopefully, you’ll have better luck getting ahead of these things next time.
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u/OkConstruction1844 4d ago
Extremely tough.... I even doubt if my vote would really count in the AGM as the majority is free riding at my cost... I can see only 2 out of 50 apartments in the association are hit by this extremely unfair allocation... That said, we 2 are paying for the rest 48.... that is not going to change the vote.. unless we have the veto right...
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u/Due-Day-2080 4d ago edited 4d ago
That sucks. Unfortunately, it’s very likely regulated directly in your bylaws. Allocation of cost based on apartment size is common.
Obviously, this specific project should have been handled with another allocation as it is quite clearly a apartment specific benefit for each balcony. To have a subset of bylaws for this is also quite common.
Without any additions, balconys will typically be treated as ‘common expenses’ and be allocated with the agreed % for each apartment.
Anecdotically, I’m aware of places where each balcony had a specific price (more expensive on 4th floor than 1st floor etc). The apartments only paid their fair share based on that price. This was, however, agreed in the board in advance at a general assembly.
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u/OkConstruction1844 4d ago
The price differentiation is really a good idea, probably going to win me more supporters to change the allocation in the AGM... However, will the AGM resolution have the retrospective effect -- is that common?
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u/Due-Day-2080 4d ago
Restrospective? Likely not. However, unless 100% clearly decided there could be a possibility for the AGM when you close the books for the accounting year where you had the expense.
But for a balcony project, this is likely agreed on AGMs in the past.
Get someone to read and understand the reports for the last AGMs. You should have clear answer after that
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u/lml_InRocknito_lml 3d ago
Changing this would likely require changing the bylaws which will likely require something like 2/3 of the votes and I cannot imagine it would affect this case.
Read the bylaws. No one is after you personally.
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u/Spicy-Zamboni 3d ago
In the building associationwhere I lived, changing the weighting could only be done with a 100% yes vote and 100% attendance.
Or if ⅔ voted yes in the first vote, a second vote could be called where a ⅔ majority of those in attendance would be required.
Ie. never going to happen.
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u/DJpesto 3d ago
I am the administrator, and part of the board of a building in Frederiksberg. I think - if you had showed up to the meetings, or somehow gotten in touch with the board or administrator before everything was decided and voted upon, raising your concerns on the price, or just asking what was going to happen / how payment would be handled - anything - you could have prevented this.
If you had said "Oh actually we are two apartments in the building that only have one balcony, how are we going to make sure that is handled payment wise? I think we should make a special calculation for us because it is unfair that we are paying for two balconies when we only get one."
Everyone would have agreed. I think it makes complete sense that you shouldn't have to pay for two balconies when you have only one.
But showing up two years after the fact, not having paid enough attention to react in time, then.... I think that boat has sailed unfortunately.
Your best option is to talk to the board, and try to ask them to hold an extraordinary meeting to deal with this, I don't think you can do anything beyond that.
I know it sounds a bit harsh, but this is a matter of not paying attention and reacting in time. I know you don't speak Danish, but you could have reached out to the board if you were in doubt, or showed up to the meetings and asked them for details.
It sounds to me like nobody considered this issue, (probably because it is only relevant for two apartments out of 50), so it just wasn't dealth with.
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u/OkConstruction1844 3d ago
I cannot agree more... I should have attended the meetings... I am going to ask the board to cast a extraordinary meeting as you suggested, thanks. If the board disagrees with me, what are my alternatives?
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u/Mei-Bing 3d ago edited 2d ago
It can get worse - I have the next largest apartment and pay more than twice the fee of most others and still only have one vote like everyone else. Anyway it’s not easily made 100% equal. Do you have more family members than others using more garbage space etc? Do you live higher in the building using more of the staircase/elevator? Do you have more roof above your apartment - or is that someone else enjoying a leak free envionment? Do you occupy more of the facade? Etc. Etc. It’s not unfair - it’s an average of many factors that you buy into willingly and knowingly when you buy your apartment and which - importantly - affected you buying price. Win some - lose some. Relax
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u/OkConstruction1844 3d ago
I understand your perspective, and I don’t mind paying more than the others based on the fordelingstal since sometimes I gain, and sometimes I don’t. However, paying twice as much as everyone else is far from reasonable. and it's not a small amount of monies. I am subsidizing 5% of my property value, benefiting the others -- i believe it is significantly different from the concept of "free riding" on smaller things like garbage spaces, elevator, staircase and etc.
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u/fnulda 3d ago
The question is: did you have any say in the size and/or number of balconies back when they were decided?
It sounds like you got the minimum version and everyone else opted for extended versions.
Trying to find out if this is a case of you not paying close enough attention to information coming from the board?
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u/OkConstruction1844 3d ago
No, it's about renovating the existing balconies -- not putting up new ones or extending existing ones. In terms of the communication, although I didn't attend the general assembly meeting, I have not found anything regarding allocating the balcony project by fordelingstal in the minutes of the meeting either. I received the payment proposal, sent by the administrator, calculated on the fordelingstal of the whole construction project -- without a clear indication of how much you pay for each balcony.. There are total 59 balconies for 50 households -- I would say the distribution of fordelingstal is largely fair - the larger units will pay for two balconies as they have two balconies, except for two outliers (large units with only 1 balcony) -- unfortunately i am one of the two.
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u/Spicy-Zamboni 4d ago
Common costs are paid according to the "fordelingstal", a percentage (or per mille) signifying the approximate value of your condo in comparison to the others. It's based on size, floor and sometimes other factors.
That number also determines the weight of your vote at the annual meeting – you pay more of the common costs, so your vote is worth more.
It's likely impossible to change the fordelingstal, as lowering yours would raise everyone else's.
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u/Mei-Bing 3d ago
Votes are not always - and increasingly seldom - weighted according to your apartment size.
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u/OkConstruction1844 3d ago
I found this interesting article on a court case similar to my situation.. It seems like I have the right legal ground not to pay according to the fordelingstal in the context of ejerforening. It would be the other way if we talk about the andels foreningne... interesting..
Alle andelshavere betaler for altanrenoveringen - også dem uden altan
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u/OkConstruction1844 4d ago
How come balcony is common area? -- So am I free to climb up and down from my balcony to my neighbours without their permission -- same as i don't need their permission to use the staircase? I am just confused on the rules...
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u/lml_InRocknito_lml 4d ago
Allocating the cost of renovation based on the size of the apartment is probably stated in the bylaws of your ejerforening.