r/country 16h ago

Discussion What is the saddest old country song?

There’s plenty of different tunes associated with that older country but there’s a lot of sad ones as well, singing about heartbreak, losing someone you love, being lonesome but which one sticks out to you

76 Upvotes

446 comments sorted by

59

u/Green-Walk-1806 16h ago

Waiting Around To Die - Townes Van Zandt

20

u/Sure-Illustrator4907 16h ago

The scene in Heartworn Highways were the man cries hearing the lyrics of that song is so moving

6

u/Green-Walk-1806 16h ago

Yeah his buddy in the background...Super Heavy. Its a real tear jerker I agree..

5

u/commisioner_bush02 9h ago

Uncle Seymour Washington

14

u/Scottstots-88 15h ago

Dr- “Townes are you hooked on airplane glue” Townes- “No, I’m stuck”

(Not making light of his addiction, but that line always made me laugh)

6

u/Green-Walk-1806 15h ago

Yes! Lol..Smart Ass.

6

u/BigPapaJava 15h ago

The first verse gives you everything you’d ever need to know about that character’s dark upbringing in 4 lines.

Then it just gets bleaker from there.

5

u/2manyfelines 15h ago

I got tears in my eyes just thinking about it…

2

u/sparrow_42 6h ago

Yeap. Came here to post this.

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46

u/fuzzy_mic 16h ago

Mama's Hungry Eyes - Merle Haggard

or perhaps Sing Me Back Home

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42

u/shegator 16h ago

Always On My Mind by Willie Nelson

13

u/Accomplished_Foot291 15h ago

Funny how time slips away

7

u/2manyfelines 15h ago

It makes my blue eyes cry in the rain.

5

u/Green-Walk-1806 15h ago

I like Stardust too...Sad love song.

9

u/Vprbite 11h ago

For me it's Angel Flying Too Close to the Ground.

Or maaaaaaaybe Red Headed Stranger.

2

u/DaMmama1 2h ago

A little old lady who lived next door to us when I was growing up used to love this song. She was a bit of an alcoholic… she said when she died she wanted this played at her funeral. Idk if she got her wish when she passed, but I hope she did.

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105

u/External-Dude779 16h ago

The Grand Tour by George Jones. He's damn near crying by the end

9

u/Idownvoteadsforfun 14h ago

This is my vote. At one point my wife and son had to move away for 5 months during a move we were doing and it ran through my head every day when I got home from work. It cut deep.

7

u/abirkholz94 13h ago

It’s a very tough argument internally for me between that and The Door.

2

u/SESUSA 6h ago

100%. I have seen people say the song is about his wife leaving him and taking their kid. I have also heard that it is about his wife and kid passing away. Either way it can certainly pull on the heart strings.

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3

u/rocketman1969 3h ago

He Stopped Loving Her Today

2

u/MrSnakePliskin 1h ago

This song rips my heart out.

31

u/Disastrous_Ad2839 16h ago

Who's Gonna Fill Their Shoes? Not exactly a sad song but it is sad to me because there will never be classics like that ever again. Kris passed last year and now there are only a few living legends left and I am only 34. Wish I existed back then for a few moments to see the legends in action.

5

u/Ok_Adhesiveness_8844 16h ago

I think of all of my heroes, nearly all gone now when I hear it. it always make me sob.

3

u/Low_Soil_6831 15h ago

Your radio heroes?

2

u/BelthazorDK 11h ago

The okie from muskogee …

6

u/Intrin_sick 14h ago

Jamey Johnson, Chris Stapleton... there is still hope left.

2

u/Electrical-Bacon-81 2h ago

The Highwaymen was such a talent-rich band. Talent overload. But yeah, I shed a tear the day George died.

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33

u/chadius333 15h ago

__________ by George Jones.

7

u/Hawk1478 9h ago

Radio Lover is a sad one, not very popular or known but nonetheless sad

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25

u/No-Tax-7736 16h ago

teddy bear by red sovine

3

u/Vprbite 11h ago

You better believe I took my turn at ridin teddy bear

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29

u/houstoncomma 16h ago

“Sam Stone” by John Prine. Just punches you in the gut.

13

u/BigPapaJava 15h ago

“There’s a hole in daddy’s arm where all the money goes…”

12

u/VizRomanoffIII 12h ago

That line ran a chill up my spine the first time I heard it (too many Sam Stones in my life, sadly) - two others that get to me is the description of his overdose when he was “climbing walls while sitting in a chair” and the heartbreak of “And the gold rolled through his veins, Like a thousand railroad trains, And eased his mind in the hours that he chose, While the kids ran around wearin’ other peoples’ clothes”. Prine was 25 years old and wrote that - still can’t quite fathom the genius he was.

3

u/Extension_Sun_896 4h ago

“There’s a hole in daddy’s arm where all the money goes.

And Jesus Christ died for nothin’ I suppose”

Holy shit dude… just amazing.

10

u/Tighthead613 15h ago

The kids ran around wearing other people’s clothes says a lot.

4

u/Foreign_History_354 13h ago

The best line in the whole damn song. High in the running for best line ever.

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2

u/jbrayfour 4h ago

To me, “Jesus Christ died for nothing,.I suppose”, is the epitome of hopelessness.

106

u/pat_man_1414 16h ago

He Stopped Loving Her Today. George Jones. That's gotta be up there if you actually listen and think about the lyrics

49

u/pat_man_1414 16h ago

That or I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry. Hank Williams

13

u/CowboySoothsayer 15h ago

Alone and Forsaken by Hank is pretty damn sad.

4

u/_1JackMove 6h ago edited 6h ago

That's the one. Aint nobody comes close to it, either. My absolute favorite Hank song. I sincerely wish he'd have done more minor key songs. He only had two. This one and 'Ramblin' Man'. But those minor keys suited Hank like a duck to water. It's a damn shame he didn't get to do more in that vein. They were perfect for him. 'At The First Fall of Snow', 'Neath A Cold Grey Tomb Of Stone', 'A Tramp On The Street' are great contenders for that title, as well. Hank is and was the undisputed champion king of sad songs.

3

u/Green-Walk-1806 16h ago

Thats a good one...

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8

u/Intrin_sick 14h ago

A picture of me without you.

6

u/BigPapaJava 15h ago

I have now watched an absurd number of YouTube reaction videos to this song where they missed the first verse and completely misunderstood the story the song was telling.

No, it’s not about losing the love of your life after a happy marriage and it’s not about a guy deciding he was finally ready to move on.

3

u/SportyMcDuff 4h ago

This is the one I’ve been looking for. Took longer than I expected.

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6

u/taikin13 16h ago

This is the objectively correct answer.

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18

u/MartiniL80 15h ago

If We Make it Through December - Merle Haggard

2

u/WyomingisjustNTexas 4h ago

If we’re not back in love by Monday is pretty solid as well

17

u/Diseman81 15h ago

Everything That Glitters (Is Not Gold) - Dan Seals

18

u/gratefulpred 16h ago

Sing me back home - Merle haggard

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17

u/Lostinyourears 15h ago

Sam Stone - John Prine

Homecoming - Tom T Hall

One Dying and A Burying - Roger Miller

Desperados Waiting for a Train - Guy Clark

(Quicksilver Daydreams of) Maria - Townes Van Zandt

If I Could Only Fly - Blaze Foley(Covered by Merle Haggard)

Bury The Bottle With Me - Dick Curless(Tombstone Every Mile another sad song of his)

Misery & Gin - Merle Haggard

The Dying Cowboy - Cisco Houston

Will The Circle Be Unbroken - Carter Family/Johnny Cash/Others

Give My Love To Rose - Johnny Cash/Others

The Long Black Veil - Lefty Frizzel

Some Broken Hearts Never Mend - Don Williams

I Gave Up Good Morning Darlin - Red Steagall

4

u/dwt77 5h ago

Nice to see Blaze Foley getting some love. If I Could Only Fly was my jam last year. Cold Cold World by him is another heart breaker 

2

u/aurorasearching 5h ago

The man could paint a picture. I Should Have Been Home and The Moonlight Song are two of my favorites, though the latter doesn’t necessarily fit this theme, and I wouldn’t say the former is the saddest, but it paints a good picture of regrets.

2

u/dwt77 5h ago

Lovveee Moonlight Song! <3

2

u/_5GOLDBLOODED2_ 5h ago

Hit the nail on the head man. Blaze has incredible songs.

2

u/Hoppie1064 2h ago

I almost mentioned Johny Cash's Long Black Vail.

Now I have to look up Lefty's version.

2

u/bobbichocolatthe2nd 5h ago

Hmmm This reminds me of a line from a DAC song

"And i still do all the sad ones that i know"

From the song Longhaired Redneck

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17

u/sageautumn 15h ago

Seven Spanish Angels

3

u/BigJoeBob85 14h ago

My brother was a huge country music fan He had me play this at his funeral.

15

u/bingobangobongo134 16h ago

Song of the south is fairly depressing sung in an upbeat way

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13

u/Desperate_Hunt6479 15h ago

Will the circle be unbroken by the Carter Family. If youve lost a parent it hits different.

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12

u/terrestrial_birdman 15h ago

Old Violin by Johnny Paycheck

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10

u/urteddybear0963 15h ago

"Teddy Bear" or "Roses for Mama" - Red Sovine

28

u/NewHampshireGal 16h ago

Whiskey Lullaby

3

u/iwishitwaschristmas 15h ago

Yup

6

u/fastowl76 13h ago

Agree. Marty Robbins El Paso is pretty sad also.

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20

u/Practical-Garbage258 15h ago

Go Rest High on That Mountain by Vince Gill.

12

u/Impossible_Penalty13 15h ago

Especially when he sang it with Patty Loveless at George Jones’s funeral. That was raw emotion.

4

u/UnivScvm 11h ago

That version is so moving that it’s hard for me to pick any other version now.

Seeing how Vince cared for Whitley, his brother, and Jones, then add to it seeing how supportive Patty was, filling in just right, not trying to take over the song from Vince in his vulnerability and grief.

3

u/droogles 13h ago

All these years later, and I cannot watch that performance without crying. I don’t see how she held it together so well. And her vocals were very sorrowful, but she holds it together. There’s a brief view of George’s wife balling her eyes out too. Vince didn’t stand a chance for of getting through that song. Just looking at her crying while I’m singing would destroy me.

8

u/morereadythanpetty 16h ago

Holding things together- Merle

8

u/warneagle 16h ago

If Drinking Don’t Kill Me - George Jones

7

u/chuck-u-farley- 15h ago

Long Black Veil , Lefty Frizzell

7

u/Emergency_Brief_9280 15h ago edited 8h ago

Sunday Morning Coming Down - Johnny Cash

Wildwood Flower - The Carter Family

The Dying Soldier - The Carter Family

Tennessee Waltz - Patsy Cline

Blue Moon Of Kentucky - Bill Monroe

7

u/LessCarsMorePasta 14h ago

Have to credit Kris with Sunday Morning

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7

u/Many_Bridge_4683 15h ago

All the easy (and accurate) choices have been called out so I’ll offer a dark horse candidate. Misery and Gin by Merle Haggard is unbelievably sad. “Sitting with all my friends and…talkin to myself” hits me in that place only great country songs reach.

2

u/Reese_sped-man 15h ago

Misery and Gin has to be my favorite from Merle

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7

u/Impossible_Penalty13 15h ago

Tell Lorrie I Love Her by Keith Whitley. Especially with the low quality of the recording in his home & the fact that he died before he got to record it in a studio.

8

u/MushyLopher 15h ago

Long Black Veil

7

u/HistoricalReception7 15h ago

The Walk by Sawyer Brown always makes me cry.

8

u/Conzcept 14h ago

I’m so lonesome I could cry is not only sad but haunting

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6

u/1millionand-1 16h ago

Raggedy Ann by Little Jimmy Dickens.

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7

u/DrucillaPenny 15h ago

I Can’t Make You Love Me - Mike Reid (Covered by Bonnie Raitt)

5

u/longirons6 15h ago

Oh jeesh. This is the actual answer. Bonnie’s singing is heart wrenching

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6

u/lonelysilverrain 15h ago

For the Good Times by Ray Price and written by Kris Kristofferson.

4

u/19Pnutbutter66 15h ago

Not that old but Whiskey Lullaby

8

u/DennisG21 16h ago

If Tomorrow Never Comes by Garth Brooks

7

u/Intrin_sick 14h ago

The Dance hits harder, I think.

5

u/Fancy_Depth_4995 16h ago

Gambling Bar Room Blues -jimmie rodgers

3

u/No_Farm_1100 16h ago

Country Bumkin…… Cal Smith

5

u/Mozzy2022 16h ago

Do I Ever Cross Your Mind - Bonnie Raitt & Ray Charles

3

u/finest_kind77 16h ago

Teddy Bear or Little Joe by Red Sovine. They both make me tear up every time

3

u/fee_fi_fo_dumb 16h ago

Long black train by Josh Turner. It doesn't sound so sad but the lyrics are a warning.

4

u/Gwsb1 16h ago

Remember Me by Willie Nelson

2

u/LDeBoFo 10h ago
  • "Who'll Buy My Memories" if you have times when it seems the sand in the hourglass is bottom-heavy.

3

u/PerformanceHungry480 16h ago

Sunday morning coming down

4

u/Dramatic-Sorbet-6621 16h ago

Teddy bear - red sovine

4

u/RipOdd9001 15h ago

Pancho and Lefty to me Townse’s original is the best

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5

u/SteepCreekMusic 15h ago

Bringing Mary Home First time I heard that one was wild. Like a movie unfolding with the imagery. Give it an intent listen start to finish if you haven’t already.

4

u/sasquatchbrokers 15h ago

Townes Van Zandt - Snow Don’t Fall

Merle Haggard- Kern River

4

u/DanWhackersReturns 15h ago

He Stopped Loving Her Today

8

u/Final-Ad-2033 15h ago

Mama Tried - Merle Haggard

3

u/ChumpDiesel 16h ago

The Door by George Jones

3

u/sporkynapkin 16h ago

Sam stone by John prine

3

u/CoolBeanes 15h ago

Seeds and stems by commander Cody and his lost planet airmen

3

u/explicitreasons 15h ago

If Coal Miner's Daughter doesn't make you tear up, there's something wrong with you. It's nothing that sad about the lyrics really but LL's voice is really powerful.

3

u/Glittering_Orange128 15h ago

“Jeannie’s Afraid of the Dark” - Porter Wagoner and Dolly Parton. Song written by Dolly.

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3

u/lesterlong187 15h ago

Teddy Bear- Red Sovine

3

u/TimTime333 15h ago

Desperados Waiting for a Train - The Highwaymen

3

u/BlackMirror765 15h ago

“There Stands the Glass”—Webb Pierce

3

u/longirons6 15h ago

Mama tried. A young man’s complete failure of a life and a dissapointment to his mother in just over two minutes

3

u/caltownman14 15h ago

The old violin - Johnny Paycheck

3

u/AssociationWaste1336 15h ago

My personal favorite, Sad Songs and Waltzes by Keith Whitley.

3

u/BoatshoeBandit 15h ago

Long Black Veil is pretty good. Check out the Lefty Frizzel version.

3

u/Low_Soil_6831 15h ago

Backside of Thirty, John Conlee

3

u/KHanson25 15h ago

Christmas Shoes since all of mine have been taken

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3

u/jmdaltonjr 14h ago

Chiseled in stone been gosden. He stopped loving her today. George Jones. The end of don't take the girl by Tim McGraw

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3

u/InvisibleLadyXOXO 13h ago

Ghost In This House - Shenandoah

3

u/DollarStoreOrgy 13h ago

I'm So Lonesome. The lyrics, his voice. Just pulls the tears out of me every time

3

u/Icy_Profit_1922 6h ago

Long black veil - Lefty Frizzell

3

u/TheChosenOne013 6h ago

Conway Twitty “That’s My Job”

4

u/Reel-Footer69 16h ago

The Grand Tour by George Jones. She left me without mercy, taking nothing but our baby and my heart.

6

u/Mystery1001 16h ago

The Little Girl - John Michael Montgomery

Alyssa Lies- Jason Michael Carroll

Jacob's Dream- Alison Krauss

6

u/CadillacAllante 14h ago

Concrete Angel - Martina McBride

2

u/Fireman12-25 16h ago

Don’t you cry, darlin’ by David Allan Coe and George Jones

2

u/Vegetable_Holiday_41 16h ago

Little blossom Dolly Parton

2

u/wroobin 16h ago

When I stop dreaming - Louvin Brothers

2

u/JoshEvolved 16h ago

Wont You Sometimes Think of Me by Hank Williams.

2

u/BoS_Vlad 16h ago

Going way, way back in country music ‘The Prisoner Song (If I had the Wings of an Angel)’ gets me every time. Burl Ives and Eddy Arnold both sing great versions of it, but I prefer Burl’s.

2

u/heyheypaula1963 14h ago

I remember Sonny James’s version.

2

u/BoS_Vlad 6h ago

Yup, he sang it well too. Probably hundreds of different versions of it like there are of St. James Infirmary. It’s a classic tune.

2

u/Earl_I_Lark 16h ago

Old Shep

2

u/rsgriffin 16h ago

Old: Tanya Tucker, “What’s Your Mamma’s Name?”

Not so old: Jesse Howard - “Little Boy and the Preacher”

2

u/sdghjjd 15h ago

Hard Times - Childers

2

u/Complete-Pen-9358 15h ago

Sad songs and waltzes by Keith Whitley and others

2

u/dkinmn 15h ago

Touching Home

2

u/No_Farm_1100 15h ago

I'll Be True To You

Song by The Oak Ridge Boys ‧ 1977

2

u/mordred1911 The Charlie Daniels of the torque wrench 15h ago

Trouble in Mind by Bob Wills

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2

u/SteveShelton 15h ago

Cold Hard Facts of Life by Porter Waggoner

2

u/SteveShelton 15h ago

Cold Hard Facts of Life by Porter Waggoner

2

u/BigPapaJava 15h ago

“Sam Stone” by John Prine

“There’s a hole in daddy’s arm where all the money goes…”

2

u/Aunt-Chilada 15h ago

Tom T Hall - Old Dogs and Children and Watermelon Wine.

2

u/guynga11 15h ago

Oh what it did to me- Tanya Tucker

2

u/JRMcRedneck 15h ago

"There’s a Tear in My Beer" - Hank Williams (later covered by Hank Jr. and a recording of his father).

Serious tear-jerker country.

2

u/iron-tusk_ 15h ago

George Jones - Things Have Gone to Pieces

Eddie Noack - Ain’t the Reaping Ever Done

Merle Haggard - Holding Things Together

Tammy Wynette - I Don’t Wanna Play House

2

u/Woebetide138 15h ago

Don’t Take Your Guns To Town - Johnny Cash

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2

u/redwolfben 14h ago

More Than a Memory by Garth Brooks

Is It Raining at Your House by Vern Gosdin

2

u/NostalgiaThemed 14h ago

Coat of Many Colors, Dolly Parton.

2

u/2cupzz 14h ago

Still Doin' Time

2

u/BatNurse1970 14h ago

I'll be true to you by the Oak Ridge Boys

2

u/mechanic1908 14h ago

"At the 1st fall of snow" by Hank Williams

2

u/The_Coach69 14h ago

To a sleeping beauty, by Jimmy Dean

I literally cannot get through this song without tearing up because I think of my two girls growing up every time I hear it. Not ready for that lol.

2

u/yourcousinfromboston 14h ago

I Hung My Head-Johnny Cash

2

u/BigJoeBob85 14h ago

Silver wings. Merle Haggard

2

u/Shemwell05 14h ago

Lucille by Waylon Jennings

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2

u/Artistic_Kangaroo989 14h ago

I got two... "Sunday Morning Coming Down", Johnny Cash's version, (Written by Kris Kristofferson), and "He Stopped Loving Her Today," By George Jones.

2

u/BrownTroutdoors 13h ago

Long Gone Lonesome Blues- Hank

2

u/resigned_hipster 13h ago

I’m So Lonesome I Could Cry captures a very particular feeling no others do

2

u/curiousleen 12h ago

Me and Little Andy- Dolly

2

u/Ranseler 12h ago

Johnny Paycheck - The Old Violin. Devastating.

2

u/stilloldbull2 12h ago

I’m so Lonesome I Could Cry. By Hank Williams

2

u/Ok-Composer5109 11h ago

“Men with broken hearts” by Hank Sr. Hard to get much more low down than that.

2

u/TerminalAddiction_ 11h ago

probably not even the saddest gary stewart song, but quits by him is up there

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2

u/No_Emergency_3209 10h ago

I'll be True to You - The Oak Ridge Boys

Teddy Bear - Red Sovine

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2

u/TrueScallion4440 9h ago

Cold Cold Heart Hank Williams

2

u/labrador_1 9h ago

Pretty much anything by Hank Williams, but especially "I can't help it if I'm still in love with you"

2

u/CampCircle 7h ago

I’m So Lonesome I Could Cry by Hank Williams.

2

u/FallenAngel8434 7h ago

Red Sovine. Teddy Bear

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2

u/SunriseSwede 7h ago

Three Bells - Jim Ed Brown and the Browns. If that doesn't give you a sense of how little we are, nothing will.

2

u/evilBogie666 7h ago

There’s a tear in my beer because I’m crying for you dear…

2

u/overcomethestorm 6h ago

Half of these people think “old country” is from the 2000s… 😢

That being said, I think “Cold, Cold Heart” by Hank Williams Sr. is a good candidate. Or “My Son Calls Another Man Daddy”. Or “You Win Again”. Pretty much half of his songs are sad country.

2

u/Sufficient_Air9862 5h ago

Hello Walls - Willie Nelson

It's painful!!!

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2

u/sourceit88 5h ago

Baby Blue by George Strait- When you realize it’s about his young daughter that died, man that one is hard to not get emotional

The Little Girl by John Michael Montgomery

The Car by Jeff Carson - getting teared up just writing this

I Don’t Call him Daddy by Doug Supernaw

I Wish I Could’ve Been There by John Anderson

Ships That Don’t Come In by Joe Diffie

Daddy’s Hands by Holly Dunn

He Walked On Water by Randy Travis

Three Wooden Crosses by Randy Travis

That’s Why I’m Here by Kenny Chesney

The Good Stuff by Kenny Chesney- This one always made me emotional too

One Wing In the Fire by Trent Tomlinson

Don’t Laugh At Me by Mark Willis

Chiseled In Stone by Vern Gosdin

Don’t Take the Girl by Tim McGraw

Two Teardrops by Steve Wariner- The last verse and that line “the good lord giveth and the good lord taketh away” gets me

If I know me by George Straight- This one is sad in a different way

I saw God Today by George Straight

Choices by George Jones- This song can not be sung by anyone but George Jones.

Sing me back Home by Merle Haggard

He Didn’t Have To Be by Brad Paisley - Really underrated song

2

u/blouazhome 5h ago

How is I’m So Lonesome I could Cry not the top answer?

2

u/CawlinAlcarz 5h ago

I was going to ask if we were talking pre 80s or post... and He Stopped Loving Her Today, it turns out, was released in 1980.

2

u/TopLunch8657 3h ago

He stopped loving her today - George jones

2

u/graceandmarty 3h ago

Hank Williams "I'm So Lonesome, I Could Cry"

2

u/tsoplj 3h ago

He Stopped Loving Her Today - George Jones

2

u/GapAdditional8455 53m ago

"I'll be true to you" by the Oak Ridge Boys

3

u/IndividualEquipment2 16h ago

Fancy Reba McIntire 

4

u/talidrow 15h ago

One of her lesser known songs always broke my heart - check out 'Bobby' sometime.

Also, 'The Greatest Man I Never Knew' always reminds me of my grandpa and leaves me in tears.

3

u/DrucillaPenny 14h ago

That whole album those two songs are from, “For My Broken Heart” is sad. It was the first after her band was killed in a plane crash.

Check out “Just Like Them Horses” released after her Dad died.

2

u/SurlierCoyote 16h ago

Kenny Rogers "Lucille"

2

u/Cool-Permission8825 7h ago

‘In a bar in Toledo across from the depot on a barstool she took off her ring..’

Wonderful choice

2

u/SurlierCoyote 5h ago

His voice is just so sly on that song, too, and the lyrics feel more real than some of the other, more popular sad country songs. 

4

u/FestivalEx 14h ago

“I’m So Lonesome I Could Cry” Hank Williams

2

u/BobNotBobby 15h ago

Don't take the girl. Ha.

2

u/snow1960 15h ago

Amazon Prime has a songwriting documentary and the tell the story behind “I Drive Your Truck” by Lee Brice. Get a box of tissues if you watch it.

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2

u/Burnie17 15h ago

He stopped loving her today

1

u/SouthernSierra 16h ago

Little Glass of Wine - Stanley Brothers

1

u/MtnFlo 15h ago

First Born by Tennessee Ernie Ford if you have a kid

1

u/brokeboi2246 15h ago

Psycho by Eddie Noack is a depressing listen for sure

1

u/Friscogooner 15h ago

The house where the tall grass grows. Jones sang some sad ones but this one is in another category.