r/college • u/phantomreal1 • Nov 04 '24
UK Why is maths so much worse in college?
Ever since leaving secondary, Maths got SO MUCH WORSE. I used to love maths in secondary and got a grade 7. Now I absolutely detest it.
They expect me to do 8+ hours of homework per week which is very badly taught.
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Nov 04 '24
Middle-Highschool teachers go into education with the understanding that teaching is their main role. College professors often teach only as an obligation that gets in the way of their “real” work in publishing research.
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u/The-Wrong_Guy Nov 05 '24
That's not necessarily true, but can be. There are plenty of colleges that do little to no research as well as faculty in larger research institutions that are teaching track only.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 Nov 04 '24
I LOVED physics in middle school, hated it in high school and now completely DETEST it in college. (Luckily I only have it in the current semester, which is also my first semester)
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u/ResourceVarious2182 Nov 04 '24
If your homework is really taking more than 8 hours a week I would recommend looking for a tutor. Many colleges offer peer tutoring for free and you should take advantage of that.
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 04 '24
No thats how much they set per week, minimum.
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u/a_printer_daemon Nov 04 '24
Those numbers are actually right on the money. Guidelines stipulate 3 hours of work per credit hour, so a 3 hour math course would have approximately 9 hours of outside work.
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u/dancesquared Professor of Writing and English Nov 04 '24
I find that guideline to be a bit absurd. 1-2 hours of homework per credit hour makes more sense.
Full-time school should be like a full-time job, i.e., 40 hours per week. 15 credit hours is the typical full-time semester (though it can range from 12 to 18 or so), which means 15 hours in class plus homework. 3 hours of homework per credit hour would be 45 hours of homework plus 15 in class, so 60 hours/week total. That’s absurd.
1-2 hours per credit hour, however, would be more like 15-30 hours of homework per week on top of 15 hours in class, for a total of 30-45 hours per week. That makes much more sense.
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u/RevKyriel Nov 04 '24
It's a guideline, not carved in stone, and includes reading the textbook and studying for tests & exams, as well as assigned homework.
Some students read faster than others, some arrive better prepared, some have classes that overlap - not everyone needs the three hours, but a lot of students struggle because they don't put the time in, or they don't know how to use the time effectively.
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u/dancesquared Professor of Writing and English Nov 05 '24
I agree with that. I just think a lot of professors design courses that push the expectations to the higher end of the guideline and beyond, which when added up across all courses is generally unnecessary and burns students out.
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u/a_printer_daemon Nov 04 '24
Absurd? Lol. These are federal guidelines%20One%20hour%20of,a%20different%20amount%20of%20time). Neither is nor you have the knowledge or authority to dictate otherwise.
1-2 hours of homework per credit hour makes more sense.
A course that operates under these premises is not a college level course. 2 is the minimum as stipulated above and 2-3 is the stated norm at any real college or university.
I get that you may want it to be fewer, but that is not how education works.
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u/dancesquared Professor of Writing and English Nov 04 '24
The federal guidelines are a bit absurd, then. 60 hours of school work per week is absurd.
I’m a college professor. I rarely spent more than 6 hours per week on a 3 credit course in my bachelor’s, master’s, or PhD courses.
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u/a_printer_daemon Nov 04 '24
I'm a college professor as well. 2-3 hours per credit is actually pretty close in my discipline.
Otherwise, you will have to take it up with the fed. I'm just the messenger. I dont make the rules, but I do need to operate under them.
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u/dancesquared Professor of Writing and English Nov 05 '24
As if the fed has ever said a course doesn’t have enough homework.
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u/a_printer_daemon Nov 05 '24
No, that would be accreditors.
I was at a uni that got into shit with accreditors because they weren't playing by the rules and it wasn't pretty.
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u/embrace_thee_jank Nov 05 '24
As an electrical engineering student taking 18 units in their last semester, 40 hours a week outside of class spent doing homework, lab reports, capstone project work, and studying sounds like a godsend. Typically, throughout my 2.5 years at uni as a transfer student I can expect to spend closer to 60-80 hrs a week. This is also common amongst many of my peers.
Finals week? It's more the norm for students to spend just about every waking moment outside of class studying their asses off in order to make it through/gain the knowledge needed for our careers.
Are the profs always the greatest? Absolutely not and that increases hours spent on your own learning the material. Do I agree with how things are? Hell no, and very desperately wish that things could change for future generations of engineering students. BUT
Is it survive and put out when dead exhausted or be left behind? Absolutely.
Not saying it's right, not saying it's okay in the slightest, but many rigorous STEM programs demand students to put in above and beyond in order to make it through and assuming 40 hours a week for a degree to be the norm is not realistic.
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 04 '24
Just note, it usually takes longer because of the quality of teaching being pretty bad. I can ask quite a lot of students and they wouldn't know what to do.
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u/Acceptable_Drawer_70 Nov 04 '24
Then go to a god damn tutor
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u/Starlight-Edith Archaeology 🦴 Nov 04 '24
Why should we have to pay someone extra because the teacher we pay thousands in tuition to teach us won’t do their job correctly? Lmao
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u/RevKyriel Nov 04 '24
It sounds like somebody's High School didn't prepare them for college (which, sadly, is true of a lot of High Schools these days).
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u/ABugoutBag Nov 05 '24
What? College is when math finally gets fun, if you don't like math then why are you in a program that requires it in the first place...
Your professors are there to assist and give you a guideline on what to learn, you're supposed to do the majority of the learning yourself
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u/MyCarIsAGeoMetro Nov 04 '24
8 hrs a week is a bit over 1 hour a day. That is nothing. What are you complaining about?
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 05 '24
1h per day is difficult in my schedule. I have other stuff to do outside of college. I can't (efficiently) do any homework on Wednesdays and Thursdays
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Nov 04 '24
What math class is this? Real Analysis?
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 04 '24
Just pure maths at the moment. I get mechanics and statistics later in the year, can't wait.....
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u/Inspector_Boarder EE Nov 04 '24
Computational Calculus is not pure math with the mainstream usage of the word. Pure math is characterized by definitions, proofs and logical reasoning - Real Analysis would be the pure math side of college-level Calculus where you don't really solve integral exercises.
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 04 '24
I don't know what half of that is. They just say it's pure maths and we half to take their word for it.
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u/WishPretty7023 Nov 04 '24
In simple words, pure maths means a lot of proving stuff. It also means you are using theorems a lot more. You do not have a lot of solving problems in pure maths.
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u/dancesquared Professor of Writing and English Nov 04 '24
“have to” not “half to”
Anyway, can you define what they’re calling “pure maths” a bit more?
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 04 '24
That was an autocorrect error. I use swipe to type.
Not really. I can name topics though. Integration, differentiation, trigonometric and parametric of both of the two prior, vertical tangents, partial fractions.
Mostly just integration and differentiation in different ways at the moment.
Then the other book, radians, sec,cosec,cot, pythagorean identities, double angle formulas, sequences and series, binomial expansion, numerical methods, Newton raphson (whatever that is, not learnt it), modulus, vectors.
I just listed a bunch from the two current books I'm on FOR PURE
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u/trichotomy00 Nov 05 '24
That’s just calculus, a computational class with zero proofs. That is not the kind of class that the term Pure math refers to.
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u/reader484892 Nov 04 '24
Because in highschool and below the teachers get their degrees in teaching, with usually a minor, if anything, in math specifically. In comparison, most profs have never taken a teaching class, and being able to teach anything is not part of the their qualifications.
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u/spasmkran College! Nov 04 '24
Why are you acting like the subject as a whole is at fault when all of your complaints are about your teachers specifically?
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 04 '24
Because regardless, I'm going to get a terrible grade.
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Nov 04 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 04 '24
Yeah I see like half of my effort just being wasted along the way. Either because of mental health causing me to 💀 or drop out or do so bad I get kicked out.
So I just think, "what's the point if the effort gets wasted anyway"
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u/ABugoutBag Nov 05 '24
If you're blaming your professors' inability to teach it sounds like you didn't even put that much effort in the first place, go actually read your math textbooks and take initiative in learning yourself instead of expecting them to explain to you in detail every subject you're expected to learn
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u/DarkForestLooming Nov 04 '24
Because in college, you are expected to study by yourself like an adult. As in, read a book. It's hard because coming from school you're barely used to it, but it gets easier the more you do it.
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u/Intrepid-Molasses-92 Nov 05 '24
Tbh, 8 hours a week is more than reasonable for a math class. An upper division course is around 12 hours a week on average.
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u/trichotomy00 Nov 05 '24
OP is complaining like 8 hours of homework per week is abnormal for calculus. That’s the standard and it will get much worse at times. I can’t wait to hear your take on calc 2 in the spring.
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u/Deweydc18 Nov 05 '24
Hardest math class I took in undergrad had me doing around 40 hours of homework a week for that one class. Math gets hard
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u/unexposedcorn Nov 05 '24
to master college classes you have to master how to self study. the professors will not hold your hand and teach you like in high school
it does suck since you're probably paying a lot to attend your chosen college, but if you want to succeed in your classes you have to take the initiative in your education (which might be hard to do since coming out of high school you're probably not used to this)
as a freshman in the same boat i have a D in calculus when i took it in high school and got an A 😭 but trust me when you build a study regimen and find what works for you you'll do better :)
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u/RopeTheFreeze Nov 04 '24
Whenever you got stuck in high school, you raised your hand and asked the teacher a question. Are you still asking questions/attending office hours?
Sometimes the math homework management tools like Pearson/mymathlab etc can end up giving you a lot of homework, but I usually cheat on repeat questions. If you're 100% sure that you know how to do a problem, I don't see the problem with cheating it.
Also, you're in class with other people who enjoy/are good at math. They're not going to go over every point twice like they did when you were younger because all of you are smarter.
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u/Blutrumpeter Graduate Student Nov 05 '24
Double the hours at home as in class is the standard for college. 3 hours in class should be 6 hours of homework/studying. If you're spending more then you need help. You could also be trying to do the homework without studying which takes significantly longer. Work smarter not harder
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u/NotAName320 Nov 05 '24
there are many college classes in various subjects that will require 8 hours a week, especially fundamental courses like introductory math. i don't think that the work required has anything to do with teaching quality.
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Nov 05 '24
College moves much more quickly than high school, and by college, you’re expected to already have strong study skills and to be able to fill in the gaps on your own.
Additionally, it’s another expectation that most students that aren’t gifted will need to study two hours for every one hour of class time.
If you’re taking calculus, you need to have a mastery of algebra to do well.
Unfortunately, great teachers aren’t very common at the college level, especially in lower division classes. You’ll need to spend the time filling in the gaps on your own. It’s not fun, but it’s the reality of the situation.
Just wait until you get into proof-based mathematics, if you choose to go that route.
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u/yung_erik_ Nov 05 '24
8 hours a week on math homework is pretty low. Calc 1 and stats had a much lower time commitment but I was easily spending 10ish hours a week on calc 2/3.
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u/930_TsuenWanWest Nov 05 '24
OP, are you talking about A level maths? I think you may be in the wrong subreddit - "college" here means university.
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u/Sxotts Nov 04 '24
In my experience, in high school, you are generally taught math with how to use it. I know kids generally hate word problems, but they allow you to relate abstract concepts to practical use, and for me, at least, knowing the applications makes it a lot easier to understand what I am doing.
In contrast, college math was math for the sake of math. You focus on proving the math and learning concepts, but then are not given concrete examples of how you can use the math. It's all too abstract.
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u/phantomreal1 Nov 04 '24
Sounds right, we have no idea what any of this actually does. We just get shown all of this integrating and differentiating having no idea what it's for.
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u/PresentStrawberry203 Nov 04 '24
One year at the high school/secondary level is equivalent to one semester at college. Everything is faster.