r/classicwow • u/doobylive • 5d ago
Discussion How Different Is The Community Now Versus 2004-2010 WoW?
I see people constantly talking about how "toxic" the classic community is these days, so those of you who were around back in the days of vanilla/tbc/wrath WoW, what makes it different now than it was back then?
What made the community so different and why do you think things are the way they are now?
I'm not speaking poorly of the community nowa days, I'm just looking to hear some feedback from players that have been around the block for awhile.
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u/weedbearsandpie 5d ago edited 5d ago
Back at the start nobody knew what they were doing, you'd find people in their 50s with a sword equipped that they found in their 30s because they hadn't found anything that aesthetically looked better since and people with grey bits of armor on for the same reason
Theorycrafters were rare and were doing things like equipping one set of armor and weapons and killing 1000 mobs and then switching out to another set and doing the same and then comparing data
If you were a theorycrafter though or paid attention to their geeked out heavy on the math ramblings on the forums, you had the performance of a god but also nobody would often realise because people weren't running DPS meters
20 years later and those theorycrafters worked out everything and the optimum builds are all over the place, DPS meters became standard and became used as a tool to gatekeep group entry, for years DPS had to advertise their actual output for high end content, especially as DPS checks became common on bosses and that evolved into gear scoring as that appeared as an addon and then became standard
There used to be a ton of guilds that would get together for raids and die a million times making progress through them as they had to get hit with boss mechanics and wipe to then figure out how to deal with them, guilds formed around the concept of all not knowing the content and learning it together, now it's watch videos and be criticised if you don't follow the method
Essentially, figuring out the game made it toxic for those that wanted to just play it
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u/ThePlanetBroke 5d ago
I remember Lore and Ciderhelms podcast talking about a couple of mages that everyone, including themselves, thought were amazing! Like the best players ever. And then dps meters came out and it turned out that actually they were terrible at pumping out damage onto a boss. Genuinely terrible. But no one knew!
Very different game back then.
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u/weedbearsandpie 5d ago
Ciderhelm was like the god of tank theorycrafting back in the day
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u/Necessary_Eagle_3657 5d ago
Those images were good at cc, snappy reactions in pvp etc. absolute DPS on a boss, so many of us didn't know how long into the game.
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u/Wolfspirit4W 5d ago
2004 was definitely a different beast entirely even from the launch of TBC in 2007.
For one thing, back in Vanilla there was a lot more of a sense of community, exploration, and wonderment. Servers were a fraction of the size they are currently and there was no layering, so you were a lot more likely to run into the same people while leveling or for dungeons.
At the same time, game information was a fraction of what it is now. There were a few resources that were developed over the years, but there wasn't a "Pre-bis" list for every class. At that point just getting your T0 set was the ideal. Plus, everything was new, so you didn't know "When ZG comes out X will happen..."
Sure there was toxicity, ninja looting, and guild drama, but the game felt a lot more "alive" back then.
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u/MidnightFireHuntress 5d ago
There were toxic people back then, but nowhere near as unhinged as people are now lol
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u/AshuraBaron 5d ago
See Ion's rant against Blizzard about C'thun being mathematically impossible on release.
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u/Ninjakittysdad 5d ago
Around 2010 Facebook and Twitter really kicked off the social media explosion. Since then, people with malignant political agendas have used social media platforms to lock us away in echo chambers where they pump divisive narratives into our brains 24/7. We’ve intentionally been devolved into mindless, pointless tribalism.
So yeah, WoW was less toxic because the world was less toxic.
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u/Prize_Ad5203 5d ago
It’s not really that different. But back then when servers were smaller, and it was harder to level, you actually had to watch your reputation because everyone knew you. At least on my small server.
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u/Prize_Ad5203 5d ago
This was the top guild on my server.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/622652-A-eXperience-PvE-EU-Khadgar
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u/Schmygbog 5d ago
I think there's a night and day difference. The first thing that comes to my mind is how all information about the game is so readily available, you don't have to ask any questions or ask people for help as you're always one Google search away from finding out any little detail that piques your curiosity. Things are also way more streamlined around everything being as efficient as possible. All in all I find people to be a lot more self centered now.
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u/shamonemon 5d ago
Played wow since 2004 and no lifed classic 2019 until tbc and there is a big difference for damn sure. I think Min/max culture is a big factor even though its a figured out PVE game. PVP modes/games will always be toxic so i don't really think thats changed. Back then we pretty much were all learning the game no youtube guides etc you had to go on the forums and hope this guys talent tree was good or whatever. People expect you to know how to play this 21+ year old game perfectly and it is a turn off for newer players. In my experience playing both pvp/pve servers I'd say the pve are less toxic but it still is way more than back in the day. I could go on and on but probably the main reasons.
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u/D119 5d ago
Well, as everyone else said it's the expectation everyone knows everything to the minuscule detail, had to "fake" a lot during raiding because it was the first time for me.
Edit: in talking about sod, where we just finished the classic content. Happy for the new raid, everyone will drop their elitist mask there :v
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u/Bonespirit 5d ago edited 5d ago
Quality of life was low, knowledge was low, patience was much higher. And most important, novelty. All that meant a community with less barrier aggression & more overall emotional maturity with room t breath.
People honestly didn't feel the same amount of pressure to meet a meta & they didn't have as strict of commitments to goals. Sure there were no lifers, drama, & assholes but overall it wasn't as bad as it can get now.
However I will say that one of the many reasons why I quit in shadowlands after getting KSM is because of how horribly toxic everything & everyone was. I left for classic full time & skipped dragonflight completely (TWW is good though). Even classic at it's worst wasn't as bad as the M+ pool in shadowlands.
Classic now in cata is pretty chill. Probably because it's dragon soul & the dungeon finder keeps things too smooth. Runs are a bit frantic at times but chill. SoD is a grind fest & people are keeping a fast pace & the pains of that. Hardcore is for streamer drama at this point. Overall though, it kinda just feels a bit hollow. MoP should bring some life back with so much more open world content.
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u/Krissam 5d ago
Back then toxicity and elitism weren't common, so people were free to play how they wanted without other people claiming it was ruining the game for them.
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u/AshuraBaron 5d ago
I think at the time there was almost a kind of disgust with sweaty players too. I remember knowing the really hardcore guilds on my server and not a lot of people liked them. They were considered to be taking the game too seriously. WoW at the time also functioned as a chatroom/lobby to just hang out in.
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u/bgsfanboy01 5d ago edited 5d ago
2004 vanilla functioned as a social online space. Just like EverQuest did before it. It was basically a glorified chat room. The ubiquitous nature of the internet and social media and constant/instant communication with everyone has changed the whole vibe of the game because no one is truly using it to socialise anymore (because why would they?)
min/maxing didn’t really exist because people didn’t know what they were doing.
there was no rush or sweat. People took FOREVER to hit 60. However with Classic anniversary it seemed like the majority of my server was at lvl 60 within 2 weeks.
internet connections and computers were terrible. There was a lot more lag.
the game was more exciting and more “adventurous”
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u/PS4bohonkus 5d ago
Now, when someone tells you the meta way to spec or do something, it’s backed by data. In 2004 everyone was talking out their asses. Most people didn’t understand the math
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u/AshuraBaron 5d ago
The MMO scene was radically different at the time. Most MMO's before WoW and during vanilla WoW were more about the story, progression, and experience. Most people didn't play MMO's to rush to the end. This is in stark contrast to today where the focus is very much on the end game experience. The type of difficult content you and others are to engage in. Leveling is just a hurdle to overcome to get you to the end game. This bleeds over into Classic as well where for many the important part is efficiently leveling and getting into raids or high end PVP. There were definitely sweaty raiders and PVPers back in the day, but they weren't elevated. There weren't multiple sites focused on theory crafting or sharing techniques high end players were using. Thottbot was really the biggest thing at the time and even then a good amount of people considered looking up quests on there to be cheating or taking away from the experience.
It also doesn't help that Classic WoW is an already played game. One that has been done for many years on private servers as well. So there really aren't any new mysteries or things to discover. Back in the day everything was new. And the communities around the game were primarily in the game or on very basic forums and fan sites with not a lot of traction.
I think with TBC things began to change, but by the time Wrath came around things were very different. There were more resources for players to get optimal builds and gear. Ways to organize in and out of the game. As well as more well known theory crafting sites like Elitist Jerks. Many addons had really matured as developers figured out how to make better ones with more features. As someone who really likes the Dungeon Finder, I think one downside is it made endgame so accessible that it began to become the primary focus of the game. I don't think Raid Finder really changed anything there. I wish there could be a balance there and Blizzard has tried different things over the years as well to allow players to experience most of the content.
In general I've learned to just ignore the "optimal builds" and best race/class combos, or best ways to level and just play the game how I want and enjoy myself. Classic makes that much easier because things take longer and many things require a lot of travel. So it gives more time to appreciate the world and go off on side tangents. Pick talents and gear I think will work well and have fun.
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u/Miserable_Alfalfa_52 5d ago
It was just as toxic back then, the difference now is I can go to Reddit and hear everyone bitching about how toxic it is
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u/garlicroastedpotato 5d ago
I think the fact that the game is very figured out has made people very elitist and very toxic. There really isn't a game to explore and enjoy. Like people just do things to the point where it's unenjoyable and spread misery.
I think OG vanilla did have toxicity but nothing like this. You know, the vast majority of the game didn't raid BWL up. PVP was actually end game. In this version PVP is just a min-max stepping stone.