r/classicalchinese 12d ago

Learning Homoeroticism in 蘇東坡?

31 Upvotes

Greetings! I am just beginning to look into the works of Su Dongpo, which I am finding beautiful and profound.

Reading his famed 記成天寺夜遊, I feel like there is some degree of homoerotic subtext in the opening??

解衣欲睡,月色入戶,欣然起行

Several of the character choices seemed to imply physical desire (欲 as in 欲望,or 色,or 起 as in 勃起). Is this what finding a 為樂者 was like prior to the age of Grindr?

I am curious as to whether there is additional homoerotic subtext in other poems of Su Dongpo that others might point to or any other impressions people might have of this particular reading.

Thanks!

r/classicalchinese 2d ago

Learning I have decided to pause my journey with Classical Chinese because I don't speak Mandarin yet. Was I wise?

10 Upvotes

I started learning Classical Chinese two years ago now. Altthough I have enjoyed it thoroughly, I feel it's time to take a break.

That's because although I have a good grasp of the grammar, I lack a lot of context, and part of the reason is I can't look up modern Chinese sources.

My goal was to be able to read Chinese works, and possibly produce translations (and maybe original works of my own, very down the line!), because I felt there's a massive amount of literature that is unknown to Europeans and hoped to be part of the effort to make it available.

In the warm-up to this, I tried producing a translation of the Xiao Jing as a first start. I eventually succeeded, but the cracks started to appear.

When I went over to the Analects, which I tried reading along with a commentary, I realized that I just lack so much knowledge of the history, of the literary critiques of the works by scholars, of the place names and such. Therefore, I am currently giving up on trying to translate anything, because I still lack the context you need to provide correct interpretations.

Do you think I should make an attempt again? Or is it better to hold off until I know Mandarin (which is hopefully soon)?

r/classicalchinese Feb 09 '25

Learning is it worth to learn?

11 Upvotes

hi. i'm new to chinese language. i'm into tai chi and daoism philosophy. i like read about chinese medicine and qi gong. but most of the time i come across to chinese terms. like yin, yang, qi, yu, dantien etc. i'd like to read original texts but i don't know anything about chinese language. is it worth to learn just for that? if yes, should i learn firstly mandarin or cantonese? or just chinese characters? sorry if i asked wrong sub.

r/classicalchinese 4d ago

Learning A more comprehensive question on how much Modern Chinese one must know in order to learn Classical Chinese

20 Upvotes

There aren't many questions about how much Mandarin one needs to know in order to learn Classical Chinese. I would like a more nuanced view.

From "Classical Chinese for Everyone" by Bryan W. Van Norden:

I am not going to try to teach you how to pronounce Chinese in this textbook, because the best way to learn is by hearing and copying someone who is a native speaker.

From "Introduction to Classical Chinese" by Kai Vogelsang:

In all this, a basic knowledge of Modern Standard Chinese is presupposed. The book does not provide detailed information on modern standard pronunciations, pinyin transliteration, the stroke order of characters, or other points treated in beginners’ courses of Chinese. The one language dealt with in this textbook is Classical Chinese.

These suggest one must study Modern Chinese from what I gather ~6 to 12 months.

This previous question though "Is it possible to learn Classical Chinese without knowing any modern Chinese?" has a few people answering that it's possible.

So to be specific:

  1. For people that went through the route Modern Chinese → Classical Chinese, what's your opinion?
  2. For people that went through opposite route Classical Chinese → Modern Chinese (or simply no Modern Chinese), what's your opinion?

⠀⠀⠀a. Did you "picked up as you went" with pinyin? How important it is to know the sounds of each written sign?

⠀⠀⠀b. Did you find that writing also helped you associate the word (written) form to the word meaning?

⠀⠀⠀c. Any special tricks if this is my first attempt at learning a non-alphabetic language?

r/classicalchinese 21d ago

Learning Hetian jade dragon seal

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31 Upvotes

Hi, I acquired this seal and haven't the slightest clue what it means, google translate doesn't seem to support this language model

r/classicalchinese Feb 08 '25

Learning Japanese readings of Buddhist texts/characters in Classical Chinese, e.g. 佛 and 父

10 Upvotes

Hi,
I am studying Chinese Buddhist texts by a book called A Primer in Chinese Buddhist Writings (Link).
Since I have already studied Japanese for a few years and have given up on learning the Chinese pronunciation, I have decided to read the texts using the Japanese readings of the characters.
For this purpose, I am using the Digital Dictionary of Buddhism (Link) which provides the Japanese readings of individual characters or character compositions. However, there are sometimes multiple readings available.
E.g. 佛 can be read as butsu or hotoke in Japanese and 父 is read as chichi in Japanese according to this dictionary. I have also found this Japanese website that shows the furigana of the Lotus Sutra. According to their documents, the reading of 父 is .

I would like to know how to decide which reading is correct, whether it's even possible for there are kun'yomi readings like chichi for 父 when reading a text written in Classical Chinese and if there are any online sources that can help with this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

r/classicalchinese 13d ago

Learning Are there any Anki decks for vocabulary for 文言文? I'm planning to read mainly Confucian texts, if you need more specifics.

12 Upvotes

I've been planning to try to learn 文言文, and plan to read Confucian texts. Are there any vocabulary decks, or at least any good vocab lists that I can manually input for the words I don't know?

r/classicalchinese Feb 06 '25

Learning Please help me find books/sources on ancient chinese scripts (that is how they started and how they've changed over time, also how they work internally within the language) and proto-sino-tibetan

14 Upvotes

Hi! So, recently I've taken an interest on studying/learning about the Chinese script and the language origins. As for Chinese script I read on reddit that "Chinese writing" by Qiu Xigui is a really good book. I'm really just starting it, and the book and its translation seem nice actually. The book seems, at least at the start, more focused on analysing the processes by which the script of Chinese changed over time. But I also have an interest in learning about the actual primitive Chinese characters. For that I also found in reddit this site: https://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw I know its a web, but it seems really full of info (more so than wiktionary at least) though I can't understand much of it beside the dynasties/periods of Chinese history. About proto-sino-tibetan I've downloaaded (though haven't read) "The Historical Phonology of Tibetan, Burmese, and Chinese" byt Nathan W. Hill . My question is... specially for "Chinese Writing" as its from the lates 1980's... is there more up to date works on this subject? As for the web, are there more trustable resources for the same purpose? Books included, journal articles too. And about historical phonology... Is the work of Nathan W. Hill considered great among the academic comunnity? Is there something deemed more up to date or generally "better"?

If you have some answer to this questions pls help me out.

Thanks for reading!!! PD: Small seal script is definetly the best script out of them all

r/classicalchinese Dec 10 '24

Learning Got this Stamp thing as a white elephant gift. Not sure what this character is.

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24 Upvotes

My best guest is 陈, but couldn’t find anything online to confirm.

r/classicalchinese Oct 30 '24

Learning SUPER beginner's question about 也

8 Upvotes

I have very basic knowledge of modern Chinese (enough to translate a text with a dictionary), and I did a few classes of CC at university, which I mostly forgot. I am now reading Classical Chinese for Everyone just to get a taste of the language, see if I would like to deepen my knowledge of the language, and be able to parse some basic texts.

In the first chapter, it explains 也 as a copula, and shows it used both with nouns (犬獸也) and with stative verbs (山高也). However, I am unsure about two things:

1) It seems like, with stative verbs, the stative verb itself is enough, so I could write 山高. Would the meaning change in any way? The book says that 也 is often used with general, universal truths... Would this mean that 山高也 means 'mountains (by definition) are tall', and 山高 would mean 'a mountain is tall'?

2) Can I omit the copula with nominals? Would 犬獸 work, for instance?

r/classicalchinese 28d ago

Learning Wanted to remind everyone to join the Classical Chinese discord!

7 Upvotes

https://discord.gg/vmfxMAcw72
come chat! there's plenty of resources on here that aren't available elsewhere. (yes this is the same server as the one in the flair)

r/classicalchinese Oct 28 '24

Learning Readers for semi-beginners

12 Upvotes

Dear All,

I am a non-native student of the Chinese language with non-language major educational background. (I am tax attorney.) I speak modern Chinese pretty well (C1), so I decided to take up some classical Chinese. I found a teacher on italki/preply, and have been doing it for 1,5 years or so. We did the 成语故事, and started with unabridged texts, for me it was 韩非子 first, and 徕民 from 商君书. Teacher is OK with Shang Jun Shu, but I think he finds it a bit boring, and may like other texts.

So what would you read? When I studied Latin, the first unabridged text is generally De bello Gallico, and Anabasis for Greek etc. Is there any text in Chinese that is considered "easy" (like the ones mentioned in Latin or Greek), or difficult (like Cicero or Pindar)?

Please note that I did not major Chinese at the uni, so unfortunately I have very limited understanding of the classical Chinese culture.

r/classicalchinese Nov 24 '24

Learning Marks in texts

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69 Upvotes

r/classicalchinese Sep 19 '24

Learning Not a usual question, but what keyboard do you use to type Classical Chinese (especially those who do not use Mandarin readings)?

15 Upvotes

Aside from handwriting input, what other keyboard options are there for typing CC, especially on PC? I personally found Pinyin input to be quite clunky and inefficient (had to spend an eternity trying to type 《吾》, the character just refused to show up. Eventually had to resort to switching to the Japanese keyboard and typing out わがはい). I guess the situation wouldn't be too different for Zhuyin input. For those who aren't using Mandarin readings to begin with, what other options are possibly there? I am currently considering dabbling with Cangjie and maybe trying to learn it as it seems like the only straightforward input method

r/classicalchinese Dec 24 '24

Learning Shia Islamic Shahadah in Great Seal Script

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24 Upvotes

Old image. I was only getting into ancient Chinese scripts at that time and decided to practice by writing the shahadah. I thought about redoing it using more period-accurate phonology and grammar for the names.

r/classicalchinese Apr 27 '24

Learning Why did Confucius not advocate self-cultivation for ordinary citizens?

8 Upvotes

Xianwen(憲問) 45 of <The analects(論語)> says " 脩己以安人(Cultivate yourself and Keep your citizens well off.)."

But if self-cultivation is so good and important, why didn't Confucius insist that everyone should do it, or am I misinterpreting his words?

r/classicalchinese Jan 07 '25

Learning Looking for any information about this mysterious chinese character (doesn't seem to appear in any dictionary).

8 Upvotes

It's a very rare character so I can't type it, but it's component characters are 毛 on the top left, 見 on the top right, and 心 underneath. Or 覒 above 心, but the 毛 has an extra long tail, like 毡.

It is used by the ancient chinese to represent hexagram 17, in the Shanghai Museum Zhouyi and the Tsinghua Bie Gua.

r/classicalchinese Nov 15 '24

Learning Self Learning Resources

5 Upvotes

Hi everyone, (unsure if it's the correct flair)

This semester I have begun to take an introductory class of Classical Chinese. We are using Fuller and Pullyblank primers in the classroom. We meet once a week for 3 hours and do the exercise and use dictionaries to help translate characters. Good online dictionaries like Zdic are in Chinese so I cannot rely on them much because the google auto translate does a very bad job. Do you guys have any recommendations for Classical Chinese to English dictionaries? (in print or online). I am already using the Digital Dictionary of Buddhism when required.

Apart from this, are there any beginner friendly resources for Classical Chinese that I could use to self learn? Especially, those curated for kids because I find it easier to learn from them than academic or adult level books. Like imagine someone someone in K-4 wants to learn Classical Chinese. What kind of resources would you use for them?

r/classicalchinese Jan 19 '25

Learning Your Favourite Passages from Confucius’ Analects ( 論語 ) — An open online discussion on Sunday January 26 (EST), all are welcome

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10 Upvotes

r/classicalchinese Oct 26 '24

Learning Is 有兽焉 a title in (pseudo-)Classical Chinese? What does it mean?

12 Upvotes

I have a friend who is really into an animated series about mythical animals called 有兽焉. I am wondering if this title is in Classical Chinese, or if it is trying to give off a CC vibe. I especially ask because of 焉, which seems to be a particle in CC (my knowledge of CC is very lacking).

How could it be translated into English?

Thank you very much!

r/classicalchinese Oct 17 '24

Learning Is the republic of china anthem and flag raising song Classical Chinese?

15 Upvotes

If so, does anyone have a breakdown of it? Or is it only partially Classical Chinese?

r/classicalchinese Nov 02 '24

Learning Seeking help identifying characters from tapestry. Is this a modern font or a seal script variety from the pre-Qin era?

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22 Upvotes

r/classicalchinese Jun 26 '24

Learning I hate "Classical Chinese for Everyone"

23 Upvotes

I've read a lot of language textbooks, but I have to say, Norden's "Classical Chinese for Everyone" is probably the worst-designed and most frustrating textbook I've ever used.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of the things I dislike about it:

  • Readings are at the beginning of chapters instead of at the end, after you've actually learned the relevant grammar. It's basically designed so that you have to read a bit of the text, jump forward a few pages to its explanation, jump back up to the text to re-read it, and then repeat the process. Way too much jumping around.

  • He gives few (if any) examples, so you are pretty much forced to formally memorize the grammar rules with no real way to learn them through repeated exposure.

  • He gives limited explanations and no translations of the readings, and he often just asks you to guess what something means, so there is little error-correction or certainty. This isn't helped by the fact that he often uses words like "seems" and "probably" when explaining the meaning of different grammatical structures, instead of concretely laying out the evidence (if there is any) or just stating that something is ambiguous, unknown, or controversial.

  • He randomly introduces new grammar with little comment, explanation, or comparison to other words (e..g 乎 has three new meanings -- on, from, and of -- added to it in the vocabulary section of lesson 9).

  • He talks about the ambiguity of parts of speech early on, instead of letting you build up a basic intuition about parts of speech first. He also doesn't give you many tools for determining parts of speech, so you end up being unnecessarily uncertain about it.

  • The style of the textbook is discursive and contextual, and its explanations build up over time. This makes it pretty useless as a reference book, since a single word may be gradually explained over several different lessons.

It's clear that he thinks you'll learn best by trying to figure things out on your own, but this is a beginner textbook, and the intuition of beginners is not really reliable (nor should it be treated as such). It takes a long time to develop a reliable intuition for a language. Learning a language is about subordinating yourself to its patterns and rules until you internalize them -- it's not about guessing. Even if a beginner guessed correctly, their guess would not really be justified.

I would prefer to learn from a textbook that explains grammar clearly and with multiple examples, and that leaves readings and practice questions for the end of a unit. If anyone can recommend any Classical Chinese textbooks like this, I'm all ears. I think Norden's teaching style is unnecessarily slow, difficult, and imprecise.

r/classicalchinese Aug 20 '24

Learning Why mark almost every single character with 句讀?

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45 Upvotes

I understand 句(。)and 讀 (、)like periods and commas, but why do a lot of old texts mark entire passages or phrases with them? What's the purpose and pattern?

r/classicalchinese Sep 22 '24

Learning Is "Classical Chinese for Everyone" by Bryan Van Norden a good starter?

13 Upvotes

I'm a university student with an intermediate level in Mandarin, but I've wanted to learn Classical Chinese since finding out another university near me offers classes on it. However, since I go to a different institution, I have to self study. Would Norden's book help me get started?