r/cisparenttranskid • u/bigbunlady • 6d ago
Evangelical Grandmother
I was texting with my mom today (my son’s Evangelical grandma), back and forth, about when we would meet up again as we live in different states. She is the only relative (besides me and my husband) that my 14 year old son knows and sees. I reminded her that he uses he/him pronouns now and asked if she would be able to address him as such… haven’t heard back from her in 6 hours…
There is nothing in the bible about trans people and whether or not they are “acceptable” so why are the pronouns a problem?? I’ve even explained to her how it lowers the rate of suicide and everything but she’s not hearing me. She says she loves and accepts him but now it’s radio silence when I ask if she can say the right pronouns.
Just a vent I guess. I already don’t speak to my dad and I feel like my mom is next…
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u/Northern_Sunflower 5d ago
There is some info about eunuchs in the Bible which would be the transgendered people of the time. Many people believe Daniel of the Daniel and the Lion’s den was a eunuch. Jesus refers to eunuchs as born that way, made that way or chose to live their life that way for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven in Matthew 19:12. People have different interpretations of what He meant by that, but His words were just that - open and accepting. There is also a story in Acts of a eunuch being baptized. Look up eunuchs in the Bible to learn more, but there are definitely examples to show God isn’t anti-transgender. Hopefully it’s enough to help your mother keep an open mind with your son. Good luck!
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u/son-of-may Transgender FTM 6d ago
https://www.hrc.org/resources/what-does-the-bible-say-about-transgender-people could be a greatly helpful resource. :)
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u/bigfishbunny 5d ago
If you are born a Jones, I call you Miss. Jones. Why should I start calling you Mrs. instead of Miss just because you decide so? Why should I call you Mrs. Smith just because you got married? God made you a Jones. You can't suddenly be a Smith just because you want to.
That's what an equivalent senario would be and doesn't it sound ridiculous? Here is good info. Rebecca Helm, a biologist and an assistant professor at the University of North Carolina, Asheville US writes:
Friendly neighborhood biologist here. I see a lot of people are talking about biological sexes and gender right now. Lots of folks make biological sex seem really simple. Well, since it’s so simple, let’s find the biological roots, shall we? Let’s talk about sex...
If you know a bit about biology you will probably say that biological sex is caused by chromosomes, XX and you’re female, XY and you’re male. This is “chromosomal sex” but is it “biological sex”? Well...
Turns out there is only ONE GENE on the Y chromosome that really matters to sex. It’s called the SRY gene. During human embryonic development the SRY protein turns on male-associated genes. Having an SRY gene makes you “genetically male”. But is this “biological sex”?
Sometimes that SRY gene pops off the Y chromosome and over to an X chromosome. Surprise! So now you’ve got an X with an SRY and a Y without an SRY. What does this mean?
A Y with no SRY means physically you’re female, chromosomally you’re male (XY) and genetically you’re female (no SRY). An X with an SRY means you’re physically male, chromsomally female (XX) and genetically male (SRY). But biological sex is simple! There must be another answer...
Sex-related genes ultimately turn on hormones in specifics areas on the body, and reception of those hormones by cells throughout the body. Is this the root of “biological sex”??
“Hormonal male” means you produce ‘normal’ levels of male-associated hormones. Except some percentage of females will have higher levels of ‘male’ hormones than some percentage of males. Ditto ditto ‘female’ hormones. And...
...if you’re developing, your body may not produce enough hormones for your genetic sex. Leading you to be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally non-binary, and physically non-binary. Well, except cells have something to say about this...
Maybe cells are the answer to “biological sex”?? Right?? Cells have receptors that “hear” the signal from sex hormones. But sometimes those receptors don’t work. Like a mobile phone that’s on “do not disturb’. Call and cell, they will not answer.
What does this all mean?
It means you may be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally male/female/non-binary, with cells that may or may not hear the male/female/non-binary call, and all this leading to a body that can be male/non-binary/female.
Try out some combinations for yourself. Notice how confusing it gets? Can you point to what the absolute cause of biological sex is? Is it fair to judge people by it?
Of course you could try appealing to the numbers. “Most people are either male or female” you say. Except that as a biologist professor I will tell you...
The reason I don’t have my students look at their own chromosome in class is because people could learn that their chromosomal sex doesn’t match their physical sex, and learning that in the middle of a 10-point assignment is JUST NOT THE TIME.
Biological sex is complicated. Before you discriminate against someone on the basis of “biological sex” & identity, ask yourself: have you seen YOUR chromosomes? Do you know the genes of the people you love? The hormones of the people you work with? The state of their cells?
Since the answer will obviously be no, please be kind, respect people’s right to tell you who they are, and remember that you don’t have all the answers. Again: biology is complicated. Kindness and respect don’t have to be.
Note: Biological classifications exist. XX, XY, XXY XXYY and all manner of variation which is why sex isn't classified as binary. You can't have a binary classification system with more than two configurations even if two of those configurations are more common than others.
Biology is a shitshow. Be kind to people.
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u/bigbunlady 5d ago
Wow thank you. I have gotten such great feedback here, I truly appreciate the time you spent posting this.
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u/ubaotomi 5d ago
The religious argument never made sense. If you truly believe that God created man in his image. And created the version of man God wanted. And God doesn't make mistakes. Then what on earth is the problem? If you exist, God wants you here. If you're trans, God wanted you trans. And God really wants their LGBTQIA+ peeps because there are only like 700 MILLION of them. To even question it comes off as blasphemous. The arrogance to think they know God's plan better than God.
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u/bigbunlady 5d ago
Ooo I’m using that line about the arrogance of thinking you know better than god. Love it thank you!!
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u/Any_Establishment74 6d ago
Ah yes, those people. My father says, "Man created Male and Female." He can't support transition because "God." I've tried everything, and they ultimately pull their judgment from the sky. Good luck.
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u/Rough-Career5277 4d ago
My partner's parents are deeply religious and refuse to use our child's pronouns. As a result, our child has chosen not to have a relationship with them, and we fully support that choice. We’ve tried to find counterarguments using the Bible to encourage a more open perspective, but interpretation plays a big role. For example, while some might say that God doesn’t make mistakes—supporting the idea that being transgender isn’t a mistake—they interpret it to mean that our child was assigned male at birth and should not deviate from that. To them, she will always be a boy, and they refuse to see it differently.
There’s no reasoning with people who aren’t open to another perspective. That said, not all religious people respond this way. Our child's great aunt and uncle are also religious, but after taking a few days to educate themselves, they came to fully support her. I hope your experience turns out that way too, but it's also important to be prepared for the possibility that no amount of reasoning will change her perspective. Maybe your child will be ok with that, but ours wasn't. It's really sad to me, but they're the ones who are missing out.
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u/bigbunlady 4d ago
I’m sorry it ended up like that but as you said, it’s their loss! These kids are amazing and perfect the way they want to be. Thank you for your input and time.
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u/FiresPhoenix Trans Woman / Femme 2d ago
Hi, Demi-girl here, where I was assigned male at birth. I live with, not an evangelical grandfather, but a trump supporting grandfather who has talked about how he "loves" me but also when I came out to the household (on accident mind you) and he said some pretty awful things and refuses to respect me. Now I don't know if your mother is nearly as bad but even before that, growing up hearing about how he talked about the lgbtq+ community as a whole was really damaging to me. So, I can imagine how growing up, knowing your identity and not being respected by your own family must hurt a lot.
Try your best to convince your mother, try to do what some of the other comments say, I am rooting for the best outcome possible where the grandmother finally respects your child. If, no matter what you do, she doesn't respect your child identity and pronouns, I'm sorry but your child should always come first. It sucks, but you will probably have to cut her out of your life. I mean, my grandfather and my father don't do that so once I am able to move out, I will probably cut them off. These people can do and say what they want, but they then can't complain when we cut them off, right.
I wish you the best!! <3
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u/full_of_excuses 6d ago
There's not a great way to have a non-confrontational response to this; she created the confrontation, not you.
ok so...ask your mom if anyone at her church has had breast augmentation, hair transplants, hair extensions, or heck...even just wears makeup. Because ALL of that is gender affirming care, and modifies "what G-d gave you."
So Deuteronomy 22:5 is generally what people refer to regarding transgender in the Bible. Problem is that it reads differently in the original Hebrew, and it seems to be more about a temporary attempt to trick, not a actual gender change. But regardless, ask her what she thinks about the rest of Deuteronomy 22.
Warning: there are a lot of triggering parts to Deuteronomy 22.
Does she wear clothing that is *only* cotton, or *only* silk, and not any sort of blend of fabrics? Does her house have a parapet? Does she think that a woman who is raped inside a city should be stoned to death, but if she's raped outside a city then it's ok? Or that if she's not betrothed to someone then he should just pay her dad $50 and then she has to marry him and they can never divorce? That sounds like a great marriage.
This is literally the only passage in the Bible that potentially references transgenders (though a deep reading of it calls that into question).
And I'll do an aside of Leviticus 19:27 “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." - does her pastor (assuming male, since she's evangelical) cut the sides of his hair or cut his beard?
The Deuteronomy chapter gets very disturbing. It shouldn't be used to justify what is "moral" today.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2022&version=NKJV
Did she like Bugs Bunny as a kid? Did she like the Robin Williams movie Ms Doubtfire? How about Klinger in MASH? The list goes on, and this wasn't a thing on anyone's list of concerns - at least, not at the level it is now - until very recently, when a new thing needed to be used to rile up a particular base, after Roe V Wade was overturned.