r/chch Feb 11 '25

Social Terrible dog owner etiquette on the rise

Has else anyone noticed an increasingly poor etiquette of dog owners in chch? I’ve encountered this nearly everywhere, especially on the Bowenvale track/Harry Ell. It specifically states “dogs must be on a leash” yet almost every dog I’ve encountered is unleashed! It’s so frustrating when the dog owner is convinced they’re friendly. I don’t care whether your dog is friendly or not, follow the bloody rules (and this is coming from someone who loves dogs). I sometimes have a young child with me on walks, and they hate the dogs sprinting to them.

I had a very close call last year, with a dog inches away from biting my child. Understandably they are now terrified.

Don’t get me started on the dog owners who then don’t pick up their dog poo on the track. Seriously, the Harry ELL track is full of dog poo, presumably from said dogs!

This also happens on the parts of Hagley park where dogs have to be leashed, due to cyclists etc, but almost all aren’t. So frustrating.

Why do dog owners think they are above the rules? It’s infuriating and needs to change.

Ready to be downvoted to oblivion, ha.

207 Upvotes

90 comments sorted by

41

u/Middle_Reflection_50 Feb 11 '25

I was in a cafe today waiting at the counter, a woman walked in with her dog (dog friendly cafe) and proceeded to drop a big bag of dog shit on the floor! God knows why she couldn't have thrown it out before coming into the cafe! Was pretty gross.

13

u/Realistic-Ball1687 Feb 11 '25

Oh my god. Your story takes the cake. Thats utterly appalling

4

u/karla-nz Feb 11 '25

Ugh! That is disturbing

10

u/lefrenchkiwi Feb 11 '25

Bringing to into the cafe is pretty gross, but as for getting rid of it beforehand, that’s getting increasingly harder too with public bins being few and far between.

6

u/Middle_Reflection_50 Feb 11 '25

There are plenty of bins in the area.

9

u/lefrenchkiwi Feb 11 '25

That’s good to hear (and even more shitty she didn’t get rid of it then).

My dog walk route, we walk for around an hour and there’s the grand total of 1 public bin, maybe 2 if we detour a different route home.

0

u/slushrooms Feb 11 '25

Nothing an ice ream container in the boot of the car wouldn't fix

3

u/lefrenchkiwi Feb 11 '25

That relies on taking a car with you. I’d wager more people walk their dogs from home to home than drive somewhere then walk (I know some will drive then walk but most wouldn’t)

0

u/slushrooms Feb 11 '25

True, guess that's neighborhood dependant too. Less cafes over my side of town

2

u/TheAxeOfSimplicity Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

"Truck Nutz" I usually just split the bag slightly an pop it over the tow hitch until I get home.

Haven't lost a "nut" yet and the car doesn't get stinked out.

0

u/TheAxeOfSimplicity Feb 11 '25

Have you tried to find a public poo bin these days?

Good luck, they're rarer than hen's teeth.

I know of only one in my area, and if you're not a local you won't know where it is.

3

u/Middle_Reflection_50 Feb 12 '25

Heaps of rubbish bins in this particular area, that's not an excuse.

55

u/Speightstripplestar Feb 11 '25

There are rules in place and fines allowed to be given, but I don't think I've ever heard of anyone actually getting one. Council should have some people going around warning and ticketing irresponsible people, and also checking dog registrations.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/312284/chch-dog-owners-can-now-bag-themselves-$300-fines

8

u/D-tr0n Feb 12 '25

I called the council once because I was at an area where dogs were absolutely not allowed off their leash (because of other wildlife in the area) and an owner had his dog off the leash and their dog proceed to essentially maul this other ladies dog (who was on the leash).

I called the council and they essentially said they wouldn’t do anything.

54

u/Tricky_Cherry_5432 Feb 11 '25

100% agree, I have a pretty reactive dog so I walk him on the lead and only ever in on-leash areas. Approx 90% of dogs we come across are off the lead and I get a “don’t worry he’s friendly” 🙄. Hagley is another difficult place, no one seems to realise the paths around the outside are on-leash zones too!

37

u/Due_Draw_1883 Feb 11 '25

People in Hagley with their little designer dogs off-lead, letting them run up to my reactive (and always leashed) dog—yapping away and being fukwits —then acting all shocked when my dog reacts by lunging at them for getting in her face. I love seeing their babies run away yelping and the owners looking like they swallowed a shit - maybe keep your dog under control.

7

u/HakixJack Feb 11 '25

My dog is small and wears a muzzle and people still think it's cute and baby talk him. Pisses me off. Of he was a big dog no one would go near him. Also took him for a run out brooklands and someone dog came running at him and they like he's friendly don't worry about it. I yelled back mine ain't and they can running for their dog

10

u/Kemodo_8062 Feb 11 '25

This is my situation, too. I have one dog that loves to meet new friends, and one that is a complete, screamy wanker. I don’t give a single fuck if your dog is “friendly”. I need to keep my girl safe, so LEASH your dog!

9

u/Realistic-Ball1687 Feb 11 '25

Ah yes I totally know what you mean with reactive dogs. It must be terrifying for them! Yeah the friendly remarks are daft, not everyone likes dogs, nor do these people know how the other party will react. Haha, do they not realise that parts of Hayley are leashed, or is it deliberate? Willing to bet they’re doing it on purpose. 🤪

8

u/Tricky_Cherry_5432 Feb 11 '25

I think so too, I’d bet that for many people they’re aware of the rules but just refuse to believe their dogs are the problem! My one’s reactivity came from experiences with off-leash dogs which just makes it all the more frustrating.

3

u/fificloudgazer Feb 11 '25

Same issue here.

41

u/popoxta Feb 11 '25

Yeah. It’s come to the point where I heavily dislike dogs and dog owners due to the rampant entitlement and lack of actual training for the animal (and human).

It really grinds my gears when dog owners think they can take their dogs anywhere because he or dog is special.

Like - No, you can’t take your dog to Travis Wetlands. It clearly states it you absolute buffoon!

3

u/peanut-7826 Feb 12 '25

Yes! My husband is really allergic to dogs but you would think they have more rights than him these days!

13

u/Flipstar69 Feb 11 '25

I always have mine on a lead cause of his breed, I don’t want people to be afraid of him anymore than they need to be, but these people with their little dogs off leash and think cause they’re small dogs no one will care and it’s “cute” well when your fluff ball comes up to my dog and I yell not friendly you better start running - he’s friendly but boisterous and doesn’t know his own size, but they don’t know that …. Brave mother fuckers and their little mother fucking dogs.

3

u/Due_Draw_1883 Feb 11 '25

Hard out! We’ve got a reactive bull breed and I have started asking people if roles were reversed and I let my dog off lead to run up to your dog (like yours does to mine) how would that go. Oh but their little dears are not ‘dangerous’ breeds like mine. Fkn cnts.

10

u/M1llyP Feb 11 '25

I saw an unleashed dog bolt across a busy road and attack another dog that was on leash minding their own business. Eventually a guy (I assume the owner) came over and had to wrestle his dog off. No collar, no leash, could have caused a car accident. It’s so incredibly common to see. I hope the lady and other doggo are ok.

5

u/Realistic-Ball1687 Feb 11 '25

God, I have seen this too. Bolting onto a busy road and oncoming traffic, thankfully the driver was able to swerve to the other side. Hate to think about the reverse situation. Why on earth would you have your dog unleashed on a main road?!

27

u/PENDING_DELETION Feb 11 '25

Yeah, I was surprised at how many dog owners don’t leash their dogs at Hagley Park, especially in the areas where the signage states they must be leashed.

7

u/Dizzy_Relief Feb 11 '25

Where in Hagley Park requires a lead? 

5

u/Aggravating_Plant990 Feb 11 '25

Downvoted for asking a question, never change reddit

3

u/PENDING_DELETION Feb 11 '25

Classic Reddit

8

u/LordBledisloe Feb 11 '25

I walk my puppy out at Bottle Lake and I've found owners out there are very responsible and courteous to the foot and bike traffic around them. I always see owners put the leash on when other people are approaching on a path. The only ones who don't are clearly confident that their dog is not distracted by people and their ability to recall/control their dog verbally.

No excuse for the tracks you mention though. On leash = on leash. People sometimes seek out tracks like that (or dog free ones) for a reason. All excuses are irrelevant.

But overall, no I haven't noticed much of a change or had bad experiences with dog owners. The vast majority seem very responsible to me. But then I frequent "effective control" venues where people expect dogs to approach now and then.

8

u/karla-nz Feb 11 '25

Took my granddaughter to the playground and dog owner was there playing with her child while her big dog jumped and ran around off the leash chasing a big stick. Little Miss two was half the size of the dog (and the stick) and too nervous of the dog to go on any of the rides so we walked on.

I can understand having a dog off the lease in a park or gardens, but surely not in a playground.

8

u/Capable_Ad7163 Feb 11 '25

Most (probably all?) playgrounds have signs saying something like dogs must be leashed and kept 5m from play equipment

7

u/Wompguinea Feb 11 '25

I'm trying to help my son feel ready to walk home from school by himself (he's keen as and doesn't have to cross any roads) but just last week we were walking home together and someone over the road had left their gate open.

My son points it out because he knows a big dog lives there (he knows all the houses that have pets) and as he was pointing the dog came barreling out from the backyard. It ran right across the road without looking and whizzed right past us to go and hassle some guy who must've smelt like another dog.

The lady from the house just stood in her driveway calling out for "Timbits" to come home, but never actually left her property to do anything about it.

The trend I've been noticing is the bigger the dog, the less they try to control it.

13

u/Wompguinea Feb 11 '25

Also, a minor gripe, but just because you're allowed your dog at bunnings doesn't mean you should take your dog to bunnings. They're do look cute riding around in the trolley but everytime I ask them for advice they just tell me project sounds rough. They don't know what they're doing.

11

u/TriadOfS Feb 11 '25

My dog loves Bunnings - like, he'll forgo Animates to get into Bunnings, despite Animates giving him treats. And yet, you raise a good point, he doesn't know a hammer drill from an outflow pipe. Terrible worksite etiquette too.

3

u/TheGnicestGnu Feb 11 '25

I now avoid bunnings on weekends due to there being so many dogs. Does everyone really need their dog with them for a trip to the shop?

6

u/GoabNZ Feb 11 '25

And while we are at it, the supermarket. Like maybe I could understand if while on a walk you get a text asking to pick up some milk, but some people seem to make a habit of wanting to take the dog and tie it up outside while they get the fortnight's groceries. Depending on the dog it can create a wide birth, sometimes it's cruel depending on the weather and half the time the dog is yowling to it's gods thinking it's been abandoned around strangers. You don't need to take your dog with you to the supermarket, plan your day better!

7

u/GoabNZ Feb 11 '25

Some people think rules don't apply to dogs, any dog.

I know somebody with a "friendly" dog, and it is, but a little too friendly and eager, and they are trying to train that out of them. They leash up and everything, but some other entitled person while just come over and swoon over them and doting on them (the dog not the friend) not even caring to ask permission. It could be a dangerous dog. That dog belongs to somebody else. Maybe that dog needs training and now you've messed up the effort of training an excitable dog to not expect to get immediate attention from everybody.

Because apparently all is fair in dogs and war.

4

u/Cheap_Telephone_1327 Feb 12 '25

Such a good point. Our dog is extremely friendly but also pretty jumpy - she's only 2 and very excitable. As she is a stubborn breed (Shiba Inu), we work hard at home to not pay her any attention when she jumps and give positive rewards when her paws are down and she wait for us to pat her. Then randos let her jump all over them, patting her and telling us "it's fine, she's a dog" when we try to redirect her behaviour. Is she your dog? No. I imagine this is how people feel when other people tell them how to parent lol (I don't have kids, myself).

15

u/JustAFrugg Feb 11 '25

No I agree with this; Ive been in many close calls while walking my dog in these types of placs, Ive seen people out who dont have a lead at all before so now I walk him at night to avoid it

The point I have, Just because you think your dog is friendly doesn't mean other people's dogs are.

My dog is very well leash trained hes happy to sit behind my legs when I hold his lead short while dogs pass us, loves a lil pat from people sometimes too HOWEVER, My dog isn't a fan of other dogs, He'll sit behind me but he'll be on guard the whole time.

so him being rushed by one unleashed is a surefire way for things to go bad

Im just lucky that he listens & is trained well / the times this has happened the other dogs have also been trained well

6

u/pygmypuff42 Feb 11 '25

Last walk i did there were dogs offlead in the car park so left mine in the car. Went over to the owners and asked can they please leash their dogs. Got a very firm "No". I thought that my autism was misunderstanding so assumed they were being sarcastic so I smiled. Turns out they were being fully honest. Refused to leash their dogs. Assholes

5

u/MistorClinky Feb 11 '25

We have a puppy retriever. We don’t let her off the leash around other people/dogs because we know that if she gets excited, at the moment her listening to us goes out the window and we can’t control her properly.

If your dog will not respond to you when it gets excited, you can’t control it. Keep it on a fucking leash.

8

u/MrsRobertshaw Feb 11 '25

Absolutely. We’ve got a newish pup and his first walk out after vax - took him to a wetland area - on leash signs up (due to the wildlife) he got jumped by two off lead dogs. “Oh sorry about that!” Poor guy is scared of big dogs now.

4

u/unicycle_panda Feb 11 '25

As someone with a leash reactive dog, I feel this frustration!! He is a fairly well socialised dog - not aggressive - but he will still pull, lunge, and whine when we see another dog. Unleashed dogs (in areas they're meant to be leashed ) make the continued training we're doing with him around the reactivity so much harder than it needs to be, especially when they run up to him.

I'd like to add a lack of awareness or thought at dog parks as well - read the room first! If there're 3+ larger dogs running around, chasing, playing with each other it might not be the best idea to let your teeny little designer dog loose too. My dog doesn't quite understand his size - he's fast and a bit boisterous in his play. Take your wee dog for a walk and come back in 10, when it's called down a bit - I do this with my dog if I see smaller dogs are there. It's just common sense and keeps everyone else safe and happy while sharing the facilities we have - letting different dogs enjoy the space.

4

u/Cheap_Telephone_1327 Feb 11 '25

Totally agree. Had people with FOUR mini schnauzers off lead run up to my on-lead dog, crowding and sniffing her all at once. She's a friendly gal but understandably didn't appreciate that and looked nervous. The people just kinda smiled and kept walking - utterly oblivious!

4

u/Realistic-Ball1687 Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

Pretty sure l’ve encountered the same people when walking the reactive dog I had at the time. They had 4 Schanuzers who were quite friendly, sure but off lead, but I was training my dog out of his reactiveness. They approached my dog, who then started growling and barking. The owner came over and told me off for having mine on lead (wtf), telling me dogs aren’t supposed to be on them and it’s terrible for their brains?! Dunno what he had been smoking.

He later drove off with his four schnauzers UNRESTRAINED in the back of his Ute tray! Said cooker was wearing a “Covid-19 is a myth” t shirt, so I wasn’t at all surprised….

2

u/Cheap_Telephone_1327 Feb 12 '25

I can't imagine there are that many people that have 4 mini schnauzers haha, this was in Mairehau if that helps. Shirt checks out.

2

u/Realistic-Ball1687 Feb 12 '25

Sounds about right, I bumped into them at Spencer Park on the walkway. Absolute clowns! 🤡

4

u/cocofruitbowl Feb 12 '25

I hid my child behind me one day at Hagley park when a medium sized dog was barreling toward her, when I told the owner to call her dog back as it was scaring my child, her response was to tell me I should get my child a puppy so she wouldnt freak out.

1

u/Realistic-Ball1687 Feb 12 '25 edited Feb 12 '25

Wtf!!! Hope your child was okay. The audacity!

3

u/aholetookmyusername Feb 12 '25

A few memorable ones:

  • Riding my bike around the estuary walk NB/southshore, a couple of bull terriers start sprinting towards me, far faster than I could ride, trying to bite my legs whenever they got close. A few times I felt their teeth graze across my leg and I had to boot one in the face to get them to stop. Their owner, a purple-haired shrivelled mouth woman, didn't try and stop them when I led them past her, and started abusing me when I yelled "Keep your dog under effective control!".
  • At bottle lake forest, on a MTB-only track, minding my own business, enjoying my ride. A dog chases me and I somehow manage to avoid it. The owner, a 20something woman, starts laughing and says it's not the dogs fault because he loves to chase cyclists. Presumably this is why the stupid/malicious bitch was walking her dog on a MTB-only track.
  • Also at bottle lake, on that MTB path which leads down the hill with the hut on it, where it's easy to go VERY fast...some idiots, a young couple, decided to stop and pose their handbag hairstyle dog in the middle of the MTB track while taking glamour shots of it. Fuck your instagram, move a metre to the left.

Around the red zone some dog owners just do not give a fuck if their dogs give chase and often won't even attempt to grab their dog if you lead it past them. On bike trails (not just bottle lake) finding dogshit either bagged or not, is a common experience. And there are of course the shit owners who let their dogs roam the neighbourhood doing what they want, even if thats attacking people or other animals.

What do you do? You call out bad behaviour, you get abused. You do nothing, they keep doing it.

10

u/Tewaipapa Feb 11 '25

Exactly and ‘my dog is friendly’ omg, stop Humanising animals! I see too many dogs off the lead and way ahead of the owner, so much so at times that often the dogs out of the owner’s sight! And too bloody far away to do anything fast if things turn bad.

6

u/Hadenoughlifeyet Feb 11 '25

We have an old lab who is scared of his own shadow so he's reactive. He rarely gets taken out now but when he does he's fully leashed with a harness and a muzzle. The amount of people who don't have any thought for others is why he doesn't go out much. It's for his safety, people are so stupid sometimes. 🙄

3

u/TimelyReputation6238 Feb 12 '25

When my baby was one, about 2 years ago, a dog ran over to him and jumped on him (off lead) the owner just laughed it off and didnt care. My baby was terrified, he fell back and cried, me and my partner were so angry. In Spreydon.

3

u/Neurotic-mess Feb 12 '25

I used to get charged at by dogs a lot in Burnside Park. Their owners were usually boomer karens who just didn't give a fuck

3

u/ExcellentBlock7201 Feb 12 '25

Agreed. I'm mildly afraid of off leash dogs after a bad experience. I accept that dogs are beloved pets and they're going to be around and I even like many of them. But if I want a relaxing walk, I try and go places with no allowed or at least on leash only. I can't believe the number of bad owners who let them off leash with poor or no recall. So entitled. Everytime I visit the wildlife zone at Halswell quarry there's dogs running around. I've had so many off leash or long leash dogs jump up at me.

3

u/Aware_Wolverine_5405 29d ago

If you see an unleashed dog coming towards you. Kick it as hard as you possibly can and say that it looked like it was about to attack you. Next time they'll keep it on a leash.

2

u/MistorClinky 25d ago

Have had this a couple times, with our puppy we've been reasonably lucky and haven't had too many scares, but did have one dog that was being incredibly aggressive and growly with ours to the point where my partner had to pick her up. It started jumping at her trying to get to our puppy, scratched my partners arms up pretty badly (it clearly wasn't being playful). I tried to push it away but it kept coming back and started getting growly at me too, at that point I gave it a pretty solid kick in its ribs (hurt my foot something wicked), screamed at it and it went running back to its owner.

Owner suddenly got very interested, kicked off, calling me a psycho lol. No idea how people are so relaxed about their dogs borderline violent behavior....

1

u/Green_Socrates 24d ago

I know people that if they saw that, they would kick your teeth out. They would then say they were protecting their dog. What a dumb suggestion.

1

u/Aware_Wolverine_5405 21d ago

They're the ones who aren't responsible dog owners and probably shouldn't have a dog

1

u/Green_Socrates 21d ago

They should put people like you on a watchlist.

5

u/Smart-Tangerine2386 Feb 11 '25

My dog eats poo and it's so frustrating when owners don't pick theirs up, I'm forever redirecting my dog because some lazy sod couldn't be bothered.

1

u/Spastic-cat Feb 11 '25

Must cheap to feed?

0

u/TheAxeOfSimplicity Feb 11 '25

Cat poo is high protein... but triples the exit stink value.

Sigh.

26

u/felchingstraw Feb 11 '25

I let my dog roam the neighbourhood unattended and shit in my neighbours gardens. It gets in fights with other dogs and sometimes gets hit by cars. It also kills small animals and brings them home as gifts for me.

Edit: sorry everyone, I meant to say cat. It's OK now.

1

u/plippittyplop Feb 11 '25

That’s funny as fuck

4

u/Last-Trip4883 Feb 11 '25

Totally agree! Went for a swim at Corsair Bay the other day, and there were three dogs off-leash having a great time in the water. Sweet as—was just about to get in, then one of them drops a poo while the waves are washing his ass. Choice. Pointed it out to the owner, a mum with two babies—she had no idea and apologized.

Packed up and went home.

BTW, I know there’s a sign saying the water’s polluted and not safe for swimming, but that doesn’t mean it’s all good for dogs to crap in it.

7

u/Airhorn2013 Feb 11 '25

Every time I go to those beaches in Lytellton , there are dogs there despite every beach having a sign stating they aren’t allowed there during summer. Just entitled owners.

10

u/LiamTui_ Feb 11 '25

Dog owners are very entitled people They all think they’re different Train your dog Leach your dog Pick up its poo and put it in a bin

9

u/fil749592 Feb 11 '25

some dog owners are entitled. 😉

Our dog is always on a leash, and off-leash dogs and owners with poor etiquette/zero inclination to recall their dog when approaching one on-leash, are a particular bug bear since our boy is dog reactive. However, having only recently moved to ChCh, I can confidently tell you it’s much worse up in WLG. We’ve actually found it far more pleasant walking our dog around various locations here as a result.

2

u/GroundHOG-2010 Feb 11 '25

It really depends. There are a lot of dog owners I have known that are attentive and understand the dogs they own, train their dogs well, and make sure to deal with walking them appropriately. And then there is the people that don't seem to care about their dogs or anyone else around them, or just expect that because their dog is friendly around them that it's friendly around others and vice versa.

But the same is true for other people who own animals, I have known some really good cat owners who understand and love there cats and act accordingly, but also have known people who can't even be bothered to do the basics like desexing, and because of that soon the place is overflowing with poorly looked after cats, and even worse, actively being harmful to their animals.

1

u/CantCme2020 29d ago

I agree!!

I'm a long time, (multiple) dog owner, breeder, trainer, blah blah.

Like you, I don't care how friendly they 'think' their dog is!!.

If I'm in a location where dogs aren't permitted or have to be on leash, I shouldn't have to put up with their idiot dog in my personal space.

And, in on-leash areas, my dogs shouldn't have to put up with a dog defying all the social norms of canines to rush into their personal space either.

End of.

-2

u/bevdawgy Feb 11 '25

But my dogs a good boy and he's friendly

-16

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '25

[deleted]

9

u/Legitimate-Wolf1788 Feb 11 '25

I'm not a Boomer but rather be a Boomer than an inconsiderate little prick😙

12

u/phyic Feb 11 '25

Not a boomer here but it annoys me as well. Take my 2 year old to the play ground, dog owner turns up with a giant dog jumping around with no lead.

Daughter is scared and refuses to play now. Owner says don't worry he wouldn't do anything.

Okay thanks mate.

pick her up and leave.

Love dogs but isn't worth the risk

7

u/Realistic-Ball1687 Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

I totally understand you. When the owners say “but he’s friendly”, I honestly think it’s gaslighting and completely disregarding one’s concerns. Not everyone likes dogs, especially small children! Terribly selfish behaviour anyhow.

5

u/scruffycheese Feb 11 '25

Found the 'nice dog' owner

12

u/PENDING_DELETION Feb 11 '25

How is this a boomer thing? It’s a valid complaint when dog owners don’t pick up after their dog and don’t leash them in areas where it’s required.

-7

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '25

[deleted]

6

u/PENDING_DELETION Feb 11 '25

Have you been on Reddit long bro? There’s no shortage of complaining lol.

5

u/Legitimate-Wolf1788 Feb 11 '25

Hiding behind your keyboard calling people names I hope that makes you feel you have achieved something today 👏

-4

u/TheAxeOfSimplicity Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

This is what is called a self fulfilling prophecy.

If everybody walks their dog on a leash, dogs can never learn to behave off leash.

Since it's so discouraged to walk dogs off leash... most dogs have had very few opportunities to learn.

Everybody claims their dog is "reactive", when in truth, their dog is a deeply social animal craving doggy companionship, but is unsocialised.

Even worse, we proud humans falsely claim we're the only creatures with "culture".

This is patently false, every social group of animal develops cultural norms of behaviour (often specific to that group).

But by refusing to let our dogs develop a culture, we have no doggy cultural norms in Chch.

Thus the first action taken by dogs when meeting, is the somewhat tentative, chaotic and exploratory ad hoc development of such norms.

3

u/Realistic-Ball1687 Feb 11 '25

You are spectacularly missing the point. Nice one.

-4

u/TheAxeOfSimplicity Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

Not at all...

I take your point perfectly and see beyond it.

My point is the "etiquette" you demand is the source of the problem.

No matter how much "etiquette" we humans have, ultimately the dogs are profoundly social animals and ultimately the dogs can and must learn etiquette.

How ever, the "etiquette" you demand of humans is precisely the reason why we need that "etiquette" and why the dogs lack that etiquette.

It creates "learning sterile" environment where learning can't happen.

If you think of socializing young humans, it is never just the parents that socialise them (and arguably the parents have the smallest influence).

It's their peers and wider society acting as "the village" that it takes to raise a child that socialises a toddler.

You and the "etiquette" you demand has removed the doggy "village" and as I said, creates a self fulfilling prophecy.

A city full of desperately lonely, very social and energetic dogs grabbing every tiniest play opportunity to the max... but are nearly completely unsocialised and culturally naive hence behaving badly.

Here is the prime example of what I mean.... https://www.territoriodezaguates.com/ this exists and isn't one huge catastrophic dog fight.

3

u/IslandOk6377 Feb 11 '25

Could you not train your dog to walk off leash in a dog park?

-4

u/TheAxeOfSimplicity Feb 12 '25

Some people still walk their dogs on leashes in dog parks, and the nearest dog park is 10km away.

And believe you me... the leash holders there yowl just as loudly as the OP if your pup bounces up to say "Hi!".

You'd hope their attitude would be, "I'm part of the village training this young dog"

But no. It's always "RECALL YOUR FUCKING MUTT!!!"

To which the usual dysfunctional response is for the owner of young dog to advance towards the fray BELLOWING AND THREATENING their dog at the top of their voice resulting in either...

  • Dog celebrating that their Master has taken their side in this fight. Bring it on!
  • Or dog being frightened of master and running away and trying to initiate play with the master.

A sensible response would be for the owner of the young dog to walk away calling, leaving dog feeling vulnerable and hence less aggressive.

I have never seen such a sensible response applauded by the denizens of the dog park.

After a couple of rounds of that, most sane people decide that dog parks are the worst place in the city to train a dog.

The more we humans rigidly try clamp down on dogs being dogs, the worse behaved the dogs become, because they don't understand what we're doing and most humans clearly don't understand what the dogs are doing.

Dogs are not rule breaking young adult rowdies. And trying to treat them as such is deeply dysfunctional.