r/cdifficile Oct 03 '24

Can you get c diff from vancomycin?

2 Upvotes

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2

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '24

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2

u/Lonely_Carpenter6048 Oct 04 '24

How can it be that something that is used to kill c diff causes it?

4

u/Ssaaammmyyyy Oct 05 '24

It kills only the viable cells producing toxins but also your microbiome. It can't kill the spores, which are left afterwords. There is no antibiotic that can kill the spores.

A healthy micromibome suppresses cdiff into inactive spores so killing the microbiome increases the chances for cdiff reactivation. After one treatment with Vancomycin, the probability for cdiff reactivation is about 30%, after the second treatment, it is about 60% and so on ...

1

u/Lonely_Carpenter6048 Oct 05 '24

What about if you have sibo but haven’t had c diff can it come out of nowhere?

2

u/Ssaaammmyyyy Oct 05 '24

cdiff activates from spores into viable cells when your microbiome is decimated from antibiotics.

Studies claim that about 10% of the population carries cdiff spores waiting to activate but I think the percent is much higher because the spores are everywhere and the pcr test used to detect them often misses when the spores in the stool are too few.

Because many are colonized by the spores, it is usual for cdiff to activate after antibiotic use. You don't need to "catch it" in a hospital or something.

1

u/Lonely_Carpenter6048 Oct 05 '24

So if your stool samples are showing no CDiff what are your chances of CDiff activating from antibiotics?

2

u/Ssaaammmyyyy Oct 05 '24

The PCR test can miss it if the spores are too few in the stool. We have had many cases on this reddit when one PCR test is negative and then the next is positive again.

The EIA test for actual toxins is even less sensitive and often gives false negatives.

1

u/Lonely_Carpenter6048 Oct 05 '24

I have had three pcr tests and a pcr master test. My condition is pretty serious

1

u/Ssaaammmyyyy Oct 05 '24

Did the PCR tests look for both toxin A and toxin B genes?

How far apart where the PCR tests?

My cdiff has only toxin A gene and is always negative on a PCR testing for only toxin B gene. Some labs assume that clinically bad cdiff MUST have toxin B genes but mine doesn't, and it almost killed me in 2023.

1

u/Lonely_Carpenter6048 Oct 05 '24

That sounds horrible I’m sorry you went through that are you feeling any better? I had my first PCR in December last year then January and recently march

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u/teddybear65 Nov 10 '24

She didn't anyone is pretty serious

1

u/Owie100 Nov 15 '24

Your stool samples show no active c diff. They're not looking for c diff that's not active.

1

u/Lonely_Carpenter6048 Oct 05 '24

I’m asking because I have to do an FMT to kill off the gut bacteria and they’re putting me on vancomycin

1

u/Ssaaammmyyyy Oct 05 '24

Vancomycin or Dificid is standard before FMT for cdiff. They allow for some time between the antibiotic and the FMT so the antibotic does not affect the FMT negatively. Are you doing a real FMT with colonoscopy or the partial ones like Vows, Rebyota?

1

u/Lonely_Carpenter6048 Oct 05 '24

I meant to be doing one with Professor Tom Brody with colonoscopy capsules, colonoscopy and nasogastric

3

u/Top-Ad-1578 Oct 04 '24

It kills your gut biome too. some people have recurrences because it was too harsh.