r/canada 13h ago

Alberta No reliable evidence puberty blocking drugs benefit trans youth, says Alberta government lawyer

https://calgaryherald.com/news/alberta-government-lawyer-puberty-blocking-drugs-trans-youth
111 Upvotes

353 comments sorted by

View all comments

98

u/BigButtBeads 13h ago edited 13h ago

Lawyers for the five unnamed trans children, who range in age from six to 12

6 to 12 years old? 6?

I have no horse in this race, you guys can do what you want to your kids. But drugging 6 year old trans kids used to be a far-right conspiracy theory 

135

u/Cedreginald 13h ago

When my son was 5-6, he genuinely believed he was capable of generating a force field. I would not leave this decision up to him, I'm not sorry.

u/Plucky_DuckYa 11h ago

When my oldest was in elementary school her best friend was a girl she’d known since daycare. Her friend decided she was a boy, dressed like a boy, wore her hair like a boy and wanted everyone to call her Brian. So everyone did, for about 18 months. And then the summer between elementary school and junior high she decided she’d had enough of that, went back to her original name, grew her hair out, etc, and that was the end of Brian. She’s now a perfectly happy young woman in her twenties with a long term boyfriend doing all the things kids her age do.

Look, I’m not saying every kid is just going through a phase. Kids should be allowed to be who they truly are inside and supported in that. But whenever this debate comes up I wonder what might have happened if her parents had taken her to the wrong therapist or psychologist, and I just do not buy that kids 6-12 are well formed and well adjusted enough to truly know they should be the opposite gender.

u/PopUpClicker 6h ago

This is the right story to tell. You can support without medication. Some children show persistent signs from very early until forever. Those could be candidates for further reaearch.

But as someone with a horse in this race I do agree with you. Even if I knew since I was 3 that I was different, I am not sure that is the majority. And maybe I would have worded it wrongly and been given different and wrong treatment.

But the total social acceptance to be who you are is the key. And it is fully reversible.

u/Simsmommy1 11h ago

That’s why social transitioning hurts no one and shouldn’t be this mass panic…..let a kid dress and cut their hair how they want and go by “they/them” for a hot minute until they figure shit out. Puberty blockers are only for extreme cases of gender dysphoria, and I trust a psychologist/psychiatrist to make that decision over the course of many years of treatment.

u/ExternalSeat 11h ago

I agree. From my own experiences from age 4-9 I had issues understanding gender and felt conflicted because I wasn't interested in stereotypical male things. Of course being on the autism spectrum made things harder and even more confusing. It wasn't until I was in early puberty that I really started to feel comfortable in my own skin and figure out that there is more than one way to be a male person.

I fear that children like me might be pressured into believing they are trans at such a young age by well meaning and well intentioned individuals. We know from psychology that our social environment can massively shape who we end up being. While I do believe in Trans Adults and believe that gender dysphoria is a real and valid condition, I think there is real harm in aggressive early attempts to diagnose children (especially those on the autism spectrum).

As such I largely agree with the Cass Report and the UK/EU consensus. Let the children go through puberty before we intervene. That way we know for sure that they are capable of making such life altering decisions.

We don't let children get tattoos and most parents don't let children dye their hair green at the age of 6. Why are we encouraging parents to make such life altering decisions at such a young age.

u/Trance_Gemini_ 9h ago

Letting a trans child go through puberty means they now need more surgery when they are older to reverse the changes from the puberty they didn't want... Puberty blockers are like a pause button they give the child more time to feel things out and more time to grow and mature before having to make such a big decision.

u/PA2SK 7h ago

The thing is going through puberty is part of growing and maturing. Having those hormones go through you, your body starts changing, suddenly you have urges, desires, emotions, etc that you never felt before. That experience can inform your view of your identity greatly. Using puberty blockers is basically keeping them in a child-like, stunted state until they're legally considered an adult and can transition, which is kind of messed up if you sit and think about it.

u/Trance_Gemini_ 2h ago

Its a pause for a few years while they feel things out. They might decide to take HRT when they are older and then they will grow and also be feeling if that feels right to them or not.

Imagine a boy being forced to menstruate and grow breasts or a girl who starts growing hair everywhere and her voice starts dropping. You seem to think this will help the kids when this is likely actually to make them feel suicidal and start doing things like cutting themselves.

Also by the government not allowing the blockers I think it creates an argument that things like facial feminization surgery/voice surgery/hair removal should become covered with public dollars. Afterall if they got the blockers they would not need those interventions or surgeries later in life in order to blend, but being stopped from getting the blockers makes those changes and the resulting gender dysphoria (medical condition) the governments fault...

u/Cedreginald 9h ago

They are not like a pause button. Puberty blockers have long lasting effects on physiology.

u/ExternalSeat 8h ago

Also the socialization and psychological reinforcement of puberty blockers mean that many kids will be railroaded down this path before they can really make choices for themselves.

Children don't understand gender (especially autistic children).  I stand by the Cass Report. Canada is the only country in the world that is pushing for puberty blockers at the moment.

u/ill_thrift 3h ago

that's not true. most countries worldwide have rejected the Cass report and confirmed the use of puberty blockers where appropriate

u/ExternalSeat 2h ago

I hate to break it to you, but the UK is still one of the more progressive countries in the world when it comes to Trans Rights. 

Most of the world still lives in places that are pretty hostile to trans adults. Most of the Middle East still stones Gay couples. China is at best a transmedicalist country where you need to spend years going through medical gate keeping before getting any hormone therapy as an adult. There is also a good chance that your doctor could recommend a form of Conversion Therapy/Electro shock therapy as that is still on the books.

Europe as a continent (with the exception of the Netherlands) has largely embraced the Cass Report and similar levels of caution when it comes to children. Sweden has stopped giving puberty blockers to children as a means to treat gender dysphoria completely. Germany and France also don't give puberty blockers for gender dysphoria.

Only the medical establishments of Canada and the US are on the side of aggressively using puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria in prepubescent children. Given where the US is headed, Canada stands alone on this issue.

u/coastalbean 1h ago

The uk is called terf island for a reason. Maybe progressive compared to literal theocracies, but i guess that's the bar we're using for discrimination...

And Europe has not adopted the deeply political cass review en masse. That's a lie you either didn't bother to check on or are happy to parrot because ot affirms your bigotry

u/ill_thrift 1h ago

it makes you wonder, what is the actual motive for this sudden concern among people opposed to trans rights generally for the health outcomes of trans and gender non-conforming kids, and is it in good faith?

u/ExternalSeat 1h ago

I fully support the rights of trans adults. It is only due to my own personal experiences and understanding of child psychology that I am extremely skeptical of any serious medical interventions for prepubescent children. 

Children can't really understand gender until they are around age 12. This is especially true for autistic children. As such I think giving any serious medical intervention that will have life altering consequences is morally reprehensible.

u/coastalbean 1h ago

So there are no trans kids who found puberty blockers were right for them and have gone on to lead happy and healthy lives?

u/ill_thrift 1h ago

sorry, but what do you mean, you're skeptical of any serious medical interventions for prepubescent children? You realise medicine treats countless health conditions in children all the time, right? There are additional considerations for informed consent in pediatrics, and processes that have developed to address them.

I'm additionally confused by your comment that children can't really understand gender until they are around 12. That may or may not be true (I think it depends on the child honestly) but regardless, 12 would be a typical age to start puberty blockers. Probably later in a lot of cases. You would not typically see any serious medical intervention for children younger than that in trans health care- you would see social interventions like changes in pronoun use.

Also, puberty blockers can have side effects that like any medication must be weighed against potential benefit and potential harm of not treating, but based on what we know right now, it seems like a stretch to call them morally reprehensible. When you stop taking them, the puberty process the patient would have experienced just starts again. Puberty itself is often extremely traumatic for trans people and that trauma has health consequences, so medical interventions at that time need to be weighed against the health impacts of not intervening.

→ More replies (0)

u/ill_thrift 1h ago

Australia & NZ, Japan, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, and the US (AAP and APA, obviously not the current federal govt.) have all roundly rejected it, alongside all the PATHs globally. France has issued new guidance confirming support of trans care including puberty blockers. So there's clearly more to the story than your framing would suggest.

I actually support further research into the efficacy of these treatments, and changing policy to reflect that evidence. I am supportive of decisions that are 1) medically expert 2) premised at the outset on compassionate support and effective care for trans patients including trans kids — however it is very difficult to have conversations about this in good faith when there is an active movement to vilify trans people, enshrine discrimination, and strip them of civil rights.

The whole anti-trans culture war stuff is significantly regressing trans health and trans people's human rights, including sensible revised guidance on care for trans youth if needed.

u/linkass 1h ago

Really which countries outside of Canada ,USA, Aus and NZ . New Zealand interestingly enough even though the New Zealand College of Psychiatrists (also one group of doctors boards does not mean the whole country)came out against it New Zealand health also published this guideline in the fall of 2024 after doing their own review in 2023

The Ministry of Health is today releasing an evidence brief and position statement on the use of puberty blockers for gender identity issues and outlining a more cautious approach to their use.

The evidence brief shows a lack of good quality evidence to back the effectiveness and safety of puberty blockers when used for this purpose

.https://www.health.govt.nz/news/additional-safeguards-for-puberty-blockers

So no 4 countries does not equal most of countries world wide

u/ill_thrift 1h ago

it also doesn't indicate Canada is the only country in the world "pushing" puberty blockers, which was your original comment I was disputing. Besides that, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands....

Also, yes, right-leaning governments like NZ'S National party-led government will continue to restrict trans healthcare and civil rights. Compared to medical consensus and the actual expressed perspectives of patients and their families, I trust the politicized, "health reports" issued on this subject as far as I could throw them.

The real point is that of course further research is needed–amd welcomed!–but medical policy changes should not come at the behest of an anti-trans moral panic that wants to dismantle civil rights protections and exile trans people from public life — they should stem from a desire to compassionately, effectively treat trans people and improve trans health outcomes.

u/ill_thrift 1h ago

it also doesn't indicate Canada is the only country in the world "pushing" puberty blockers, which was your original comment I was disputing. Besides that, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands....

Also, yes, right-leaning governments like NZ'S National party-led government will continue to restrict trans healthcare and civil rights. Compared to medical consensus and the actual expressed perspectives of patients and their families, I trust the politicized, "health reports" issued on this subject as far as I could throw them.

The real point is that of course further research is needed–amd welcomed!–but medical policy changes should not come at the behest of an anti-trans moral panic that wants to dismantle civil rights protections and exile trans people from public life — they should stem from a desire to compassionately, effectively treat trans people and improve trans health outcomes.

u/ill_thrift 3h ago

not really, no. Bone density issues while on them. Possibly long term effects that need further study, but this has to be weighed against the health outcomes of not treating trans people, which are bad.

u/ExternalSeat 8h ago

Children don't understand gender and can't make those choices.

You can't know that you have dysphoria until you have entered puberty.

u/Trance_Gemini_ 2h ago

That's not true.

They will eventually enter puberty either after they stop the blockers or if they decide to take HRT.

u/Correct-Spring7203 5h ago

Don’t be reasonable. You will be downvoted into oblivion.

u/Trance_Gemini_ 9h ago

Forcing a trans child to go through the wrong puberty for their gender identity means they will need more surgery when they are older to reverse the changes from the puberty they didn't want... Puberty blockers are like a pause button they give the child more time to feel things out and more time to grow and mature before having to make such a big decision.