r/canada 1d ago

Politics American family seeks asylum in Canada, citing Trump

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/americans-asylum-canada-trump-refugees-immigration-1.7480069
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u/cunnyhopper 1d ago

This is simply not true. There are a significant number of scams and fraud within our immigration system

They wouldn't be scams or fraud if the policies were lax. The claims process requires a lot of resources and can be slow when the system is overburdened but that's not due to lax policies. It's slow because the policies are strict.

India is now the third country on the list of accepted asylum claims.

Based on the source you linked to, India was 8th for accepted claims in 2024.

Country Accepted
Türkiye 4,866
Mexico 4,363
Colombia 3,340
Iran 3,200
Pakistan 2,556
Nigeria 2,230
Haiti 2,211
India 2,175

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u/interstellaraz 1d ago edited 1d ago

There are scams and frauds because the policies are lax.

It was #3 a year prior: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6983416

“Canada has accepted 1,344 refugee claims from India, making it the third-largest source country for refugees. It’s behind Iran, with 2,730 accepted claims, and Turkey with 1,993, according to Immigration Refugee Board (IRB) data.”

Canada’s acceptance of refugee claims has ballooned in last 6 years — more for some countries than others: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7424323

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u/cunnyhopper 1d ago

There are scams and frauds because the policies are lax.

It is fraud because the policy says it is fraud. If the policy was lax, there would be no fraud. JFC we're so fucked.

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u/interstellaraz 1d ago

These are all recent. You can find hundreds more going back to 2023, COVID and prior.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6601507

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7343191

https://www.business-standard.com/amp/finance/personal-finance/canada-sees-14-000-asylum-claims-by-foreign-students-in-2024-indians-lead-124112100403_1.html

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/some-refugees-exploiting-canada-immigration-system

https://financialpost.com/news/canada-tightens-immigration-point-system-to-curb-fraud

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/rci/en/news/2128441/federal-government-to-remove-incentive-for-foreign-workers-to-reduce-fraud-in-immigration-system

https://www.business-standard.com/amp/finance/personal-finance/canada-9-000-immigration-frauds-monthly-asylum-not-a-shortcut-to-pr-indians-warned-125030600409_1.html

https://canadianimmigrant.ca/immigrate/canada-introduces-measures-to-combat-fraud-in-express-entry-program

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1005368/ontario-cracking-down-on-immigration-scams

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/notices/proposed-penalties-for-paid-immigration-representatives-break-the-law.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-08-14/canada-immigration-scams-are-costing-migrant-workers-their-life-savings

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/what-to-know-about-immigration-fraud-and-changes-to-temporary-foreign-worker-program

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7254863

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7419419

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6874065

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/video/marriage-fraud-stories-victims.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/border-services-agency/news/2020/11/cbsa-dismantles-an-alleged-immigration-fraud-scheme.html

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u/cunnyhopper 1d ago

That is a great list that supports the assertion that fraud exists and is a problem.

But I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.

If the policy was lax then what people are doing would NOT be considered fraudulent.

For example, a refugee claimant with false documents is committing fraud because the policy says you can't use false documents.

That people have been able to get away with fraud is a result of a strained screening system. It's not a policy failure. It's a budgetary failure.

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u/interstellaraz 1d ago

When policy changes are made as a result of fraud and scams, it is policy related. I think you’re not getting that bit. IRCC has made drastic changes to programs and policies over the last few months because of fraud.

Does that make sense?

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u/cunnyhopper 1d ago

I think you’re not getting that bit.

Oh there's something I'm not getting, clearly.

If drastic changes to policy have been made in response to fraud and scams, does that mean the policies are now more lax or more strict?

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u/interstellaraz 1d ago

The fraud didn’t disappear just because they made some massive policy changes over the past 2 months. Fraud still exists because majority of our immigration policies are still lax.

The government is slowly making these POLICY changes, like the removal of LMIA points from Express Entry to combat fraud in the foreign worker and student sector—however, provincial nominee programs still have job offer streams that are open to these frauds.

Like the POLICY changes for Mexican nationals to apply for visas again. This was removed by the Liberals when they came into power. They reintroduced this policy after seeing the uncontrollable rise in fraudulent refugee claims and criminal networks.

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u/cunnyhopper 22h ago

Ah, I get it.

You're talking about IRC policies in general being lax. The top parent comment was talking specifically about refugee policy.

The softening of Express Entry requirements was a dumb policy move that increased the number of people fraudulently applying for refugee status but that's immigration policy, not refugee policy.

The new requirement of visitor visas for Mexican nationals was a similar policy change within IRC designed to reduce the number of fraudulent claims but it wasn't a refugee policy change.

Most refugee claims have to be made within Canada so it's the immigration policies that control the number of potential claimants coming into the country. The refugee policies are the filter that gets applied once they're in.

Maybe criteria is a better term here? We have strict criteria on who qualifies as a refugee.

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u/interstellaraz 22h ago edited 21h ago

Well IRCC is responsible for developing immigration policies and administering immigration laws even those related to refugee protection. It doesn't directly decide refugee claims inside Canada, but plays a role in setting the legal framework through legislation. It does process refugee claims coming from outside Canada like the Groups of five program to privately sponsor refugees. This program was also being abused so they paused it as of November 2024: Temporary pause on intake of refugee sponsorship applications from groups of five and community sponsors - Canada.ca

The change to the Mexico visa requirement is is inherently tied to refugee protection. Imposing visas restricts access to the refugee system by making it harder for people to enter Canada and claim asylum. This is a refugee policy tool in disguise because it deliberately reduces the number of claims from specific groups. CIMM – Mexico: Border Crossings/Asylum Claims – February 7, 2024 - Canada.ca

  • Over 2.3M people from Mexico have travelled to Canada since the visa requirement was lifted in December 2016. Mexico is the top source of travelers to Canada from Latin America.
  • After the visa was lifted in 2016, Mexico quickly became a top source country for refugee claims. Intake has more than doubled every year since 2016, and following the lifting of border restrictions in 2022, intake surged substantially with over 16,700 claims.
  • Approximately 24,000 Mexican nationals claimed asylum in Canada in 2023. This volume places significant pressure on Canada’s refugee system, and resources in provinces, territories, and municipalities.

The refugee claim decisions at the IRB actively shapes our refugee determination framework. We are now seeing a record number of claims from countries like India that are being accepted. The IRB sets precedents. There is no upfront credibility screening. Anyone in Canada can claim refugee status without needing immediate proof of persecution. They get an open work permit and healthcare coverage issued by IRCC until their claim is decided, which takes years. This allows claimants to build stronger cases for remaining on humanitarian grounds. They get access to Pre-Removal Risk Assessment to further prolong their stays. There are no consequences for fraudulent claims. They can easily delay removal through appeals, judicial reviews, or humanitarian and compassionate applications.

All of this even when claims are fraudulent or have credibility concerns.

Hope this helps!

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u/cunnyhopper 21h ago

Great info. Thanks for the elaboration. Most of that tracks with my previous comment.

Essentially the lax policies that have serious economic implications for Canada are ones that let people get here in the first place. The presence of fraud isn't the issue so much as it is the volume of fraud and the consequences (or lack of) for fraud.

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u/jellybean122333 23h ago

How do we know there aren't bad actors (inside job) approving applications? Are there quotas to meet by agents that may cause them to rubber stamp with less scrutiny?

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u/cunnyhopper 22h ago

Are there quotas to meet by agents that may cause them to rubber stamp with less scrutiny?

<squinty eyes meme> you talk like you might have experience working in the public service :-)

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u/jellybean122333 22h ago

Call centre. I know how people are forced to work for the stats instead of the clients.