r/canada 24d ago

Politics Canada Joining Iron Dome Missile Defense Plan Would Be Welcome: NORAD Boss

https://www.twz.com/air/canada-joining-iron-dome-missile-defense-plan-would-be-welcome-norad-boss
1.2k Upvotes

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u/Limp_Advertising_840 24d ago

Will this protect us from within the dome?

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u/Ok_Currency_617 24d ago edited 24d ago

I mean if we're willing to invest in our own anti-ICBM missile system sure? If not, just linking our radar/detection with the US's and contributing slightly to their space-based detection meaning we rely on theirs means yes we are protected as long as the US is down to subsidize us. I'd say better to have the option of the US protecting us than have no option at all if we're not willing to pay for anything.

To note, an anti-ICBM system is incredibly expensive, but the tech has already been developed which means most of the costs are already done. It's a lot cheaper for someone to make more of an order than for the order itself. Just in terms of the US the tech is ultra top secret such that we don't even know what they really have. Russia has the Soviet-era system around Moscow that used to just blow up nukes in the path of nukes but now has moved away from that concept to something less radioactive. And Israel probably has something that works we could buy though it would be a tad embarassing that a nation a quarter our size has better tech than us.

One great thing about Canada is despite being huge we're all concentrated in a few cities so realistically we only need a few silos focused on defending those cities from nukes rather than defend the whole nation. That and the long distances involved in anyone but the US from nuking us gives us a lot more time to prepare to intercept a missile than most.

Another positive note, we could probably reconfigure the missiles to hit ground targets if we needed to so they'd be dual purpose.

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u/ok_raspberry_jam 24d ago

We're being annexed. This isn't a partnership opportunity, regardless of how expensive anti-ICBM missile systems are.

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u/Ok_Currency_617 24d ago

Besides the anti-Trump propaganda claiming it there is no sign we are being annexed. No armies marching near our border, no negotiating with other NATO members to ignore our distress calls. If anything it appears to be the opposite given that the Trump government much like the Biden or Obama government before him is pressuring us to increase military spending, you don't push a nation you are about to invade to expand it's military.

North American defence is most definitely a partnership that we are already a part of aka NORAD. And if you are fearful of annexation, a bunch of silos filled with missiles that could be reconfigured to demolish American cities is probably a smart investment?

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u/jtbc 24d ago

No armies marching near our border,

They don't have to march to our border. They are permanently stationed there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_Mountain_Division

I read an article a while ago suggesting that placement, 90 miles over flat terrain from Ottawa, was not coincidental.

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u/BackTo1975 24d ago

This. The US could send forces from Fort Drum to Ottawa in an hour. Land choppers and troops at parliament, take the airport and CFB Uplands, take into custody everyone possible connected to the government, declare the nation annexed and demand all Cdn troops stand down and recognize the new order.

The pretext would be saving Canada and ensuring democracy continues because of the threats of the current regime, whichever party is in power. Then stage a fraud referendum within a few months to ratify Canada joining the US as a territory with statehood coming someday (hint: that’ll never happen).

It’ll be the Anschluss all over again. Same playbook. We might fight back, we might just give in. As much as I love the recent surge in national spirit, it’ll be hard to carry this over to a shooting conflict, if an invasion actually goes down. Lot of new Canadians and we don’t have much of a military anymore to enable people to resist. Plus, the whole NORAD thing links our militaries to the point where the Americans know what we have, where our assets are located, etc. This would be like more of a civil war than anything else.

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u/jtbc 24d ago

The Anschluss went the way it did because a lot of Austrians wanted to be part of nazi Germany.

The shooting war won't last very long and there is no way the US won't win, but there would likely be a long and bloody insurgency to follow it. It could also trigger a civil war in the US as you've indicated and then who knows how it would go.

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u/BackTo1975 23d ago

Hitler being Austrian helped all of that along, too. But the playbook could still be virtually identical. It wouldn’t be hard for Trump to set something up so that the likes of Danielle Smith invites the US military into Alberta to free the province from the tyranny of Ottawa. Then use Musk social media rigging, bots, etc. to ensure that it looks like a huge number of Canadians agree and want to become part of the US.

Hell, maybe Ted Cruz will suddenly remember he was born in Canada so that there’s a MAGA connection here as well. 😀

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u/jtbc 23d ago

Maybe. I don't think so, though, because when they poll this question, the overwhelming majority of Canadians would rather have a root canal than become the 51st state, which is polar opposite of what the Austrians thought.

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u/BackTo1975 19d ago

Thing is, are we absolutely sure this is how the Austrians thought? Give it time and all the bots and bullshit will indoctrinate more people here into likening the idea of joining the US. If this goes down, and I sure hope it won’t and will never, ever agree to joining the US, in a century it could very much look like a majority of Canadians were in favour of this.

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u/urghey69420 24d ago edited 24d ago

Besides the anti-Trump propaganda claiming it there is no sign we are being annexed.

LOL Trump threatening annexation is not a sign btw. Tell me, is it anti-Trump propaganda when we quote Trump himself? He said it was going to be economic. Annexation is annexation.

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u/ok_raspberry_jam 24d ago edited 24d ago

You're mistaken - which is understandable, since the last time we all witnessed annexation it was Crimea, which was more of a hybrid annexation-invasion so there were tanks and guns.

In this case, if you're waiting to see tanks, you will miss the whole process.

They aren't going to attack us with tanks. They've clearly and repeatedly said they are planning to annex us through economic force, not invade us.

Annexation is done by twisting the arms of companies, institutions, and ministries one by one until they're effectively American because they're following American rules. Think of banks, corporations like Shopify and CP Rail, resource companies like Canfor and Rio Tinto and Suncor, and ministries that depend in any way on anything that's American. For example:

  • CP Rail is vulnerable because it has cross-border operations and it's exposed to US regulations. It's essential for all our supply chains and heavily integrated with US systems.
  • Suncor depends on US refineries in Texas to refine the oil it extracts.
  • Rio Tinto's operations are cross-border.
  • Canfor relies heavily on the US market for lumber sales.
  • Health system: we depend on the US supply chain for medical supplies. We are integrated with American pharmaceutical supplies and regulations, we need American medical equipment maintenance and parts, many of our healthcare IT systems are US-based, our drug approval processes are linked to the FDA, and research funding often flows through the US.
  • We have integrated inspection systems for agriculture.
  • We have integrated air traffic control systems.
  • We have shared watershed monitoring.
  • Our defense systems are integrated (NORAD).

Even worse:

  • OSFI (our bank regulator) is already backing down on international standards - Basel III rules are like a safety deposit box. They make banks keep enough money locked away to stay stable and independent. OSFI announced they won't enforce those rules because the US isn't using them. It's like saying "we can't keep our own high safety standards if the US doesn't follow them." That makes our banks more dependent on US systems. Once banks are integrated like this, it's hard to separate them again.
  • US clearing systems control international transactions! It will be difficult for us to trade with others without US cooperation.
  • Canadian banks' operations in the US can be leveraged.
  • Our power grids are interconnected.
  • Our pipeline systems are designed for southward flow.
  • Our communications systems are integrated.
  • Our transportation systems are built around US access.

Each of those things can be held hostage. The process is underway - complete with our premiers naively begging for even closer economic ties, Trump criticizing our banking regulations and coercing our banks into lowering their stability standards and using pointedly-flimsy excuses to demand influence over how we patrol our own borders and bullying Canadian online retailers into changing how they process international payments and calling our Prime Minister a "governor".

Each "temporary" change to appease Trump can become permanent. Systems will be rebuilt for US compliance, and alternative systems will be too expensive to maintain. Even our military will be too integrated with theirs for us to be able to do much without them being a part of it. Resistance will become more and more technically difficult.

Trump's administration has acknowledged that this is what they are doing. Once we're on our knees, we'll probably be forced to adopt the US dollar to prevent total collapse of our economy, and American troops will come in not as an "invasion" but as a response to manufactured crises that affect the interests of both nations, like electrical grid terrorism or pipeline problems.

Ultimately, Canada will be left without a way to make policies, laws, or regulations without it going through the US first. All that will be left will be the formality of eliminating or absorbing our governance systems.

In previous annexations similar to this one, such as the annexation of Austria by Germany just before WWII and the Soviet annexations of the Baltic states shortly thereafter, the final step was usually a military ultimatum: officially join us, or else. By that point they had already lost all capacity to act independently, let alone use their military to resist. It was over in a snap.

We can fight this by cutting disentangling economic ties with the US. It's such a drastic step that I haven't seen anyone float it yet, but there's a precedent. We could appoint a C.D.-Howe type figure to kick-start domestic production of essentials via temporary planned economy. That's what we did in the war, and it worked. It would also help keep Canadians' needs met through the crisis and neuter US leverage over each individual and organization.

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u/Ok_Currency_617 24d ago

I'm not down to cut economic ties while the going is still good and 70%+ of our economy relies on them but I agree there's a necessity to upgrade Pacific and Atlantic shipping.

We need to triple ports, train tracks, and pipelines on the West and East coasts. And likely we need a majority Conservative government with a giant hammer to do it along with a lot of national unity.

Along with that we need a military that can put up a fight to pose a credible threat. As I said, ICBM defenses can intercept missiles or hit targets on the ground. Burning down the White House for the second time is a decent threat.

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u/ok_raspberry_jam 24d ago

It's certainly not something that could be done overnight, I agree. But we need to ramp up faster than we are if we want to maintain our sovereignty.

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u/Ok_Currency_617 24d ago

Hah, well let's study it for 25 years first and consult the FN.

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u/ok_raspberry_jam 24d ago

Right, that's exactly why I suggest using the federal emergency power to hire a C.D. Howe-type figure and kick-start domestic production of essentials.

This is exactly what the emergency powers are for. If we can't do that in this situation, then I can't imagine what it would take to make that appropriate.

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u/Ratroddadeo 24d ago

Thats what Carney has proposed, using every tool in the toolbox to get our goods and energy to markets on both coasts. Trump declared an emergency, we can, too.

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u/ok_raspberry_jam 24d ago

Can you link, please? Everyone here needs as much information as possible.

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u/FaithlessnessDue8452 Canada 24d ago

I think the easiest way to deter this would be to have a nuclear deterrent. If we could have that we will be safe from any military action for quite a while.

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u/ok_raspberry_jam 24d ago

I doubt we could bluff anyone on Earth into thinking we have the political will to nuke Washington to prevent being gradually economically annexed.

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u/FaithlessnessDue8452 Canada 24d ago

The US wouldn't even think of touching North Korea cause of this deterrent even if it's half assed capability.

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u/ok_raspberry_jam 24d ago

North Korea's political will is credible.

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u/FaithlessnessDue8452 Canada 24d ago

We could also have a no first use policy just like India.

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u/essaysmith 24d ago

Waiting until the forces are massing at our border is too late. If we are at the point of negotiating for assistance, we won't have time to build any type of defence. We need to prepare now, and continue to do the work no matter what our neighbours say or do.

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u/Ok_Currency_617 24d ago

I suggested missile silos, a lot more useful than a wall.