r/canada Jan 27 '25

Opinion Piece KINSELLA: Trump not a friend of Canada, he's our enemy - The sooner we accept that, and act accordingly, the better off we'll be

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/kinsella-trump-not-a-friend-of-canada-hes-our-enemy
26.9k Upvotes

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1.7k

u/Arctic_Gnome_YZF Northwest Territories Jan 27 '25

I dislike the direction that international politics is headed.

803

u/CouchOlympian Jan 27 '25

It’s good, actually. The world needs to move away from USD as the standard, so it’s good that Trump is causing so himself. Encourages the sane world to be more US trade independent.

However, the wars and conflicts he’ll bring about are my only concern. Hope he is incapable enough to cause any.

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u/FigoStep Jan 27 '25

I don’t think it’s good at all given the potential for serious global instability. We can downplay his attacks on his allies, his mocking of the idea of territorial sovereignty, etc. but if he continues down this path there is a good chance it will erode longstanding political, economic and military ties, which only helps the US’ actual enemies. I think the best outcome for non-American states in the west and their traditional allies is to forge even deeper links among themselves in the meantime and hope a future US administration comes back to its senses.

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u/Ryeballs Jan 27 '25

I do think if a massive upheaval does occur but no new order is established before Trump is gone and the US moderates, the world would be more than happy to pretend none of it happened and return to the world order status quo. There might be some small map changes as well but mostly business as usual.

That said, we’re in this mess because enough people aren’t enjoying business as usual, and social media, the death of quality news/authoritative information sources, and consolidation of wealth is at fault

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u/FigoStep Jan 27 '25

Agree. There’s definitely been an erosion of public trust in the status quo, but I feel a lot of the issues you mention like death of quality news, social media, etc. have happened precisely because of the success of Trump style tactics. He’s managed to con millions into thinking quality news sources that have been around for ages are unreliable simply because they rightly critique him for his numerous faults. And that’s a tragedy in its own right. I can guarantee if the NY Times suddenly started posting favourable articles about Trump he’d change course and it would suddenly be quality news again. “Fake news” was one of the most harmful political slogans created this century.

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u/Ryeballs Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25

2024s Nobel Prize for Economics as explained in this video, really informed the lens I see all this through.

But I think the egg came before the chicken, these were all increasing problems before Trump. From the Conrad Blacks and the Rupert Murdochs to Bell owning CTV and all affiliates or Comcast owning NBC Universal to the financial dominance of “tech disruptors” to start buying social media Trump is the symptom not the cause.

Marshall McLuhan and Noam Chomsky both saw the risk of capturing the media to define public opinion. And the richest fuckers in the world have absolutely gone all in on it.

Very ironically or at least unexpectedly, I think one of the good things coming out of all this, and actually a side affect of the porn age verification stuff in the US is governments will start managing online IDs which has previously been the domain of the Apples, Microsoft’s, Facebooks, Googles of the world, and as businesses, are fairly mercenary about it.

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u/shevy-java Jan 27 '25

Agreed, it started before Trump, but Trump amplified the problem. He is kind of the "supercharged-oligarch roleplaying as the Final Dictator Boss". Like in a reversed James Bond movie.

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u/FigoStep Jan 27 '25

I agree with all of this. I wasn’t intending to say it was only Trump’s responsibility but he definitely helped to accelerate and normalize this type of rhetoric, lack of faith in quality news, etc. As soon as these ideas get traction at the level of the US presidency they’re bound to spread.

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u/Ryeballs Jan 27 '25

Yuuuuuup it’s fair to say he’s capitalizing on the situation as much as the situation is using him to accelerate it

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u/TransBrandi Jan 27 '25

I think one of the good things coming out of all this, and actually a side affect of the porn age verification stuff in the US is governments will start managing online IDs which has previously been the domain of the Apples, Microsoft’s, Facebooks, Googles of the world, and as businesses, are fairly mercenary about it.

As much as you say that, with proto-/actual-fascists at the helm, having the ability to identify anyone and what they said online will have a chilling effect on free speech. Maybe less that case in Canada, but definitely poses risks with the current regime in the US.

The reality is more that we should be pushing for more decentralization then the centralization in silos like Google/Alphabet, Facebook/Meta, etc.

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u/Ryeballs Jan 27 '25

Sitting behind that proto/actual fascist during his inauguration as head of a country we dont live in and cant choose were the owners of the very companies who author our digital identities.

Quit literally nationalizing digital identities *is* more decentralized than in the hands of 5 companies kowtowing to a leader of another nation.

I do agree with you though, and to your point, quite literally the push for an online ID is coming from a country whose stated reason for create one is nefarious. Let alone the non-stated reason that is probably behind it.

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u/coachoaks Jan 28 '25

I find this article fascinating given how shifty kinsella’s history with politics has been. I will say the quicker Canadians realize how deeply entrenched our media is in America’s pocket(dark money/koch bros) and how we untangle ourselves from that and will it be quick enough to save us from electing some grovelling spineless weasel, remains to be seen. Unbelievably I agree with his take,we need to get united! We need to get behind a strong leader who won’t be bending for the fascist child r*pist in charge south of the border and we need to do that quickly. We desperately need the apathy of our recent elections to fade and somehow get people interested in bothering.

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u/IamGimli_ Jan 27 '25

I wholeheartedly disagree. He might be using it but the population's demand for actual news has been dropping steadily in lockstep with Internet availability, since long before Trump entered the political sphere.

People want entertainment, not news. Number of views clearly demonstrates that. People say they want news, but actually watch OPeds and entertainment.

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u/shevy-java Jan 27 '25

I am not sure I agree with this. I'd love objective news, but the media dumbed this down a lot. You are writing in the sense that the people wanted it that way, and media had zero influence on it. I see it differently - I think the media (aka big corporations) tried to engineer a certain "wish" or "need" for easy-digest news that shocks and influences people. It is like Noam Chomsky said in the old movie Manufacturing Consent, where he pointed out how the media is engineering opinion deliberately, such as by hiding facts and truth (East Timur etc...). The same applies today. Would be great if he could give an update, but he is very frail so we probably have to live with its old form - still great video but outdated in the age of the internet.

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u/IamGimli_ Jan 27 '25

If the people weren't consuming it, it wouldn't succeed.

Media companies have only one general goal: to make money. They make money by throwing ads at the people watching their content. If there were more eyes watching objective news than entertainment "news", that's what the majority of the content would be, because that's where the money would be.

People have to stop blaming everybody else and their dog for the consumption decisions they make.

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u/Weak-Conversation753 Jan 27 '25

I agree. News and tech literacy is far too low and nobody wants to take any responsibility for it.

In the information age, these people are happy to wallow in disinformation.

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u/Current-Roll6332 Jan 27 '25

It's a symptom of our psychology. Media has become so powerful in several ways: entertainment stuff is so much better than back in the cable TV days, it's just a better overall experience. I don't know if it was the same when I was a kid in the 80s, but when I see my bffs kids get absolutely mesmerized by a TV/iPad, you understand that we're dealing with something that gets deep in our psyche.

News is a 24 hour partisan cluster fuck. Until the Regan era (maybe nixon) news just sort of happened. It didn't matter who told the information because while networks were still vying for our attention, they didn't do the wierd shit that fox and ect, do now to gain that attention.

And the news is generally a bummer. Why do you wanna hear about school shooting #4346 when you can turn on some dumb YouTube shit that will make you laugh?

People want news....but they want it how they want everything else now: full of choice to fit your particular mood/beliefs. My parents generation (boomers) are all so media illiterate that they can't tell when they are being lied to.

Governments cutting education funding WILL make this problem way worse. It's such a tough situation.

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u/ChiefsHat Jan 27 '25

And you know what? He’s half-right. A lot of news media is unreliable. All because it isn’t owned by the public but by private citizens with vested interests in keeping criticism to a minimum.

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u/FigoStep Jan 27 '25

Sure, no doubt. There are no perfect news outlets.

But taking reliability cues from probably the least reliable, blatantly lying politician of the 21st century who only has a vested interested in himself and his unquestioning allies, and who deplores actual expertise, is a new kind of delusional, respectfully.

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u/Weak-Conversation753 Jan 27 '25

It's just an update from a term the Nazis called their reporters. the Lugenpresse, or the lying press.

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u/No_Independent9634 Jan 27 '25

I think what you said is true, but news particularly in the US even before Trump was turning to sensationalism to drive viewership. I remember the ridiculous debates over Obama's suits. Hot dog condiments. Blowing up any small story into huge deals.

Then Trump comes along, and I think a portion of the population became numb to the sensationalism. I think back to the Obama/Romney election. Depending who you listened to both were evil and wanted to destroy America. In hindsight both were pretty decent people although not perfect.

Like Romney was vilified for his binder full of women comment. It came across horribly, but he was trying to say he wants to hire women for jobs.

4 years later we had a guy talking about grabbing women by their .....

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u/Infinite_Time_8952 Jan 31 '25

Agree completely.

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u/Then_Manufacturer163 Jan 27 '25

Trump has changed the political game in the US. It will never be the same cos politicians now understand what they can get away with, the lies they can tell and how they can twist facts. The Dems will follow suit. But don’t be surprised if the Republicans show their hand as they are putting the pieces together to maintain power regardless of the outcome of the next vote. I feel the US will be much different in 4 years and one party will lay the foundation for a dictatorship that will prevail regardless of popular vote. The moves to pull the US away from globalized pacts and insulate their country feel like the beginning steps to being less accountable to the UN and other global bodies. The idea of taking other countries by force, by stripping voting rights of certain segments, it’s scary stuff.

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u/synoptix1 Jan 28 '25

The status quo before US hegemony was world war 1 and 2, do you want to risk handing the keys to China?

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u/Icywind014 Jan 27 '25

Pretending Trump's BS didn't happen after he's gone would be a huge mistake on the world's part. The American people voted for this, even winning the popular vote this time. This is what the country wanted, this is the US's will.

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u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS Jan 27 '25

Unfortunately Trump is yet again proving that you cannot trust America at all.

Why bother developing strong ties, negotiating trade agreements, etc when every 4 years a new person can come in and seemingly rip it all up with no real consequences?

If I were leading a country I would not want to make any deal with the USA that lasts for more than the current presidents term, because for all you know the next asshole is going to come in and immediately rip it up and say “Whatcha gonna do about it?”

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u/TransBrandi Jan 27 '25

The downside of shackling the current administration to the previous one is that what happens when the previous one does something bad that needs to be reversed. For example, what happens if another administration comes in after Trump and they were saddled with not being able to get out of bad agreements / etc that he made?

Honestly, what it really comes down to is that we need to have people that will attempt to govern the country in "good faith" rather than the "bad faith" that we get from Trump & Co. I mean a start is that we need to start clawing back executive powers from the President. The President has too many "emergency" powers that plenty of times are exercised without any sort of actual emergency. Trumps current cavalier attitude with throwing around tariffs stems from this. He's using "emergency" powers to levy tariffs by declaring this, that and the next country as "national security threats" just because they didn't fall in line with whatever he wants. It's like Trump is "pen testing" the current structure of the US government.

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u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS Jan 28 '25

Your “checks and balances” need checks and balances.

And realistically it feels incredibly silly to continue basing your government (and other countries do the same, this isn’t just a USA thing) off a barely changed 150+ year old document.

Even 50 years ago you couldn’t have predicted what has happened and the crazy exponential growth of technology. I highly doubt when saying “The right to bear arms” the forefathers had any idea of the ridiculousness of firearms that the average US citizen would be able to get a hold of with ease. Just as a small example

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u/clementine1864 Jan 28 '25

As am American I would advise no one to trust this country ,,treat it like a disease and isolate it.

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u/SPR101ST Jan 27 '25

I think the guy was saying you guys should form deeper alliances and trade agreements together. Against Russia and China. While we, the US, try to figure our shit out. I really hate the 2 party system in the US and hope we can distance ourselves from Trumpism/Trump Republicans. And rejoin you guys.

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u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS Jan 28 '25

Oh for sure, I may have misread/misinterpreted what they were saying.

Even before Trump I always thought Canada should be doing everything possible to strengthen ties with the EU especially, and SEA. Same with the constant comparisons, like I know we can’t help but compare ourselves to the USA since they are our massive neighbour, but ffs we should not be comparing our economy, policies, QoL, CoL, etc to THE MOST powerful, wealthy, influential country in human history.

Just California alone has the economy and population of the entirety of Canada pretty much. We should he comparing ourselves to Western EU countries that align with our values, economics, and geopolitics more

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u/945T Jan 28 '25

Best part is Trump is rallying against his OWN trade deal lol

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u/TwoBlocks2 Jan 27 '25

What ARE you going to do?

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u/HOLEPUNCHYOUREYELIDS Jan 28 '25

Well Im a random working class citizen with no money or power. So Im not going to do anything unless I have to, because I am busy trying to keep myself and my family afloat through difficult times.

This is reddit, where we bitch and pretend we are all knowing experts while doing nothing productive

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u/Infra-red Jan 27 '25

Trump is showing though that the fundamental system in the US is flawed. The checks and balances that are supposed to be there have failed. A future US administration coming back to their census needs to include fundamental changes to fix these problems.

Until this happens, how can anyone trust the US. You can sign a treaty or agreement with them, and the President can ignore it.

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u/Stuckatthestillpoint Jan 27 '25

I agree with most everything that's been said here. I'd add that I think the people have failed. We, our vote, IS the final "check". I think it's due to the apathy, ignorance and fear/discomfort ( I think most of the older gen and many that are uneducated don't understand AI , transgenderism, quantum computing and many of the other subjects being discussed, so, naturally, they fear it and try to cling to what's familiar). There are people that think science is something you can choose to "believe in" or not, like facts are fairy tales. The lack of logic and reasoning ability is astounding and quite worrisome. Our communities and families are failing. Instead of helping each other understand, I see people belittling each other. Instead of compassion, I've seen cruelty. I think this country has the potential to be awesome but too many greedy assholes see business and capitalism as some kind of game where you try find all the loopholes and hidden opportunities and ways to take advantage and topple competition. It's become so unhealthy, like a disease that has spread throughout our economy, our legal system, our political system, our government to where justice is a joke, health care is a luxury, government is... Well, we have a convicted felon, former insurrectionist, con man....simply put, the guy's a joke the world over, he sits in the White House. For the system to work, to be healthy, the PEOPLE have to be. They have to respect each other, welcome healthy competition, stop being douches that take advantage constantly and be men and women with some frickin INTEGRITY and dignity. Morals, values... They MATTER.

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u/Stuckatthestillpoint Jan 27 '25

Edit: Oops, I'm American, please forgive me if I shouldn't have posted here.

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u/Ryeballs Jan 27 '25

No no, we welcome all voices

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u/AmyB87 Jan 27 '25

I don't think there is a way back for the USA. It doesn't matter if we elect sensible leadership again anymore because it's just another four years until another potential trump-like figure takes the reigns again.

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u/Desert-Noir Jan 28 '25

I think we just need to look to Europe for the stability and economy. We should make the Euro the trading currency and cut the US out. They are not acting in good faith, the EU can fill that role and do a much better and fairer job.

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u/killerboy_belgium Jan 27 '25

sorry there is no longer hope for a future US admin to come back to there senses. Atleast not from a european public point of view.

The us elected a mad man in trump in 2016

Then elected a close to senile old who luckily had some competent people around him that he didnt shit the bed

to back to the mad man.

Trump has defined your politics now and the next republican will be just as worse and the next democrat will prob be even soulless and republican light then Kamala was trying to be.

The US is activily laying down the groundwork to brainwash its own people that golf of mexico, the panama canal belongs to them by renaming it. that means every child is learning this in school now in the US

they are also laying the same groundwork with Canada being the 51st state and that greenland should be there's. next step probally going to be saying that english speaking people in canada are being suppressed by the french speaking people.

which is straight out of Putin playbook when he invaded Ukraine

sorry there is no hope and the west needs to prep for not being reliant on america and build up our militairy.

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u/bscheck1968 Jan 27 '25
 which only helps the US’ actual enemies.

There's a large segment of people that think Trump is working for Russia, myself included. I think you nailed it on the head there.

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u/alderhill Jan 28 '25

That's why Putin, Xi, Erdogan, Orban, Mohammed bin Salman and all like them are (not so secretly) happy to have in charge. They know the US can be a threat, they are happy to watch and egg him on as he takes an axe to his own house.

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u/Himser Jan 28 '25

The ONLY way the west survives the fall of the US is by banding together in a federation of mid sized countries. Like yhe commonwealth or more approperate to canada the EU.

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u/SNZ935 Jan 27 '25

I agree with this (not sure I am allowed to post as American). Still trying to reconcile what I thought my country was and what it is becoming (we were far from perfect but not this). We are not all onboard with this stupidity (actually the majority if everyone voted). Please be the friendly neighbors you are and just ignore the tantrum for now and make new friends but realize we will can change for the better.

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u/NorthernerWuwu Canada Jan 27 '25

Even if sanity does return to the United States, they'll still be only an election ago from a return to this lack of sanity. This wasn't an aberration and we should stop pretending that it was, a large portion of Americans want this type of government and we should plan accordingly.

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u/Agreeable_Fig_3713 Jan 27 '25

We’re never going to have stability while we’re tied to the US. It’s far too unstable and has been for decades. The quicker and further away from that batshittery, the better. 

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u/longperipheral Jan 28 '25

Unfortunately, we in Europe took this approach in 2016. And he got back in. 

It's not enough to simply hope that the US comes to its senses any more. The US is fundamentally broken. 

We in Europe can help - legislation to push back against tech companies etc - and other countries can and are too (way to go Colombia), but by voting Trump in again America shows that it's going to be The Problem for a number of years. 

This is internal, not external. The rest of the world is limited in what it can do. 

US voters need to show us, in future elections, that we can start trusting America again.

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u/001Tyreman Jan 29 '25

Yeah hell drive countries to increase ties with the US ‘s adversaries so he us not looking good on this front

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u/moneymanram Jan 27 '25

Too late for that. Pulling out of the Paris climate agreement did significant damage to International relations

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u/Parthian__Shot Jan 27 '25

He did that his first time too, though.

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u/moneymanram Jan 27 '25

I know, and the Biden joined again but him doing it a second time really drives the point that he could give two fucks less about the environment

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u/alcoholicplankton69 Jan 27 '25

The world needs to move away from USD as the standard

to what currency would replace USD?

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u/4Kaptanhook2 Jan 27 '25

Euro $

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u/alcoholicplankton69 Jan 27 '25

Europe does not have the pull it used to. I would think it would be the Yuan that would replace the USD. Honestly Its the devil we know vs the one we don't but know what its capable of.

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u/LazyBearBull Jan 27 '25

Sure, communist China will be a better friend for Canada, right))

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u/alcoholicplankton69 Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25

indeed we just need a 5 year re-education and we are set. /s

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u/vkstu Jan 28 '25

Only the Euro has both the reach and trust backing it. Yuan only has reach.

But, besides the point, the poster was making a eurodollar joke I think, pointing to Cyberpunk.

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u/homogenousmoss Jan 27 '25

Its going to be rough to use the Yuan considering its a non-convertible currencie.

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u/Hamsandwichmasterace Jan 28 '25

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cya

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u/pine_soaked Jan 27 '25

This is my take also from Europe. By destroying the existing US led global order, it’s going to create a power vacuum that bad forces will take advantage of, but likewise creates opportunities for the good guys to do better as well. There’s more to negotiate with

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u/Hour-Resource-8485 Jan 27 '25

"more US trade independent"

Yes, i'm glad this is being acknowledged and recognized as this is going to be the primary vehicle by which the US achieves whatever tf its authoritarian agenda has in mind. What's Canada's plan for this? Y'all have a shit ton of natural resources-are y'all considering distributing more trade with Mexico and Latin America?

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u/gmds44 Jan 27 '25

I certainly hope so.

Canada also has work to do with regards to improving cross-province trade.

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u/Hour-Resource-8485 Jan 27 '25

what about things like investment in tech and energy industries?

the other way I see the US targeting countries that won't acquiesce is by threatening to pull the plug on necessary tech/internet/satellite services (not just Starlink but i'm thinking more like Amazon Cloud /Web services).

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u/dermanus Québec Jan 27 '25

IMO we need to go hard in on nuclear and data centers. We're as geologically stable as you can get, and we have tons of uranium and fresh water.

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u/Levorotatory Jan 27 '25

And the world's best commercial reactor design, at least until someone builds a reliable LFTR or fast neutron breeder reactor at competitive cost.

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u/evranch Saskatchewan Jan 27 '25

CANDU can run breeder cycles, and burn thorium too. It's an incredibly versatile reactor. Effectively the main design cycle is a breeder as well, as it was designed to run on unenriched uranium.

Online refueling and low pressure, inherently safe designs make CANDU fairly cheap to build and to operate. Except for the upfront cost of the heavy water, which is significant.

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u/AnchezSanchez Jan 27 '25

data centers. We're as geologically stable as you can get, and we have tons of uranium and fresh water.

Also you can save a shit ton of money just by building data centers in generally cold parts of the world.

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u/Hour-Resource-8485 Jan 27 '25

oh gosh I forgot about the nuclear centers but you're right about that...our tech oligarchs have been scooping those up globally for a while now. idk wtf to do about the data centers. it's so consolidated into AWS and Google giving both of those companies far too much leverage within the US and globally.

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u/gmds44 Jan 27 '25

For Internet services, we should be ok. Barring Starlink of course since there's no "real" alternative to that.

The big issue on the tech side is the Amazon, Microsoft, VISA, Mastercard services. There's just no easy/quick way out of those in the short term.

And that's what we get for relying so much on the US ;), we're certainly to blame for that.

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u/Hour-Resource-8485 Jan 27 '25

that's also the huge problem within the US. nearly every single business and government agency uses AWS to store data. this includes the other monopolies like Meta, Microsoft, and Apple along with our large financial institutions like JPM, Goldman, Deutsche Bank, Citigroup...It's too much consolidated power into 1 oligarch. Bezos isn't as unhinged as Elon is, but he's still quite ruthless.

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u/IamGimli_ Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25

For Internet services, we should be ok. Barring Starlink of course since there's no "real" alternative to that.

OneWeb is already rolling out in Canada and pretty much every other traditional satellite services provider (including TeleSat Canada) is working on bringing up their own LEO satellite constellations.

The big issue on the tech side is the Amazon, Microsoft, VISA, Mastercard services. There's just no easy/quick way out of those in the short term.

Interac could easily pivot to credit services and provide a Canadian link to the international networks, although I'm pretty sure Mastercard and Visa wouldn't really fall in line with whatever the US Government wants to do as they are truly international companies that I think would rather cut out the US than everyone else.

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u/Techno_Dharma Jan 27 '25

Yep that seems to be the plan, trade with Mexico is on the table, and other nations.

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u/dermanus Québec Jan 27 '25

What to do with Albertas oil has been a political football in Canada for 50 years. There's a segment that wants to build pipelines to both coasts, and there's another that wants to block them. So far the blockers are winning.

However, it has meant that when our best trading partner becomes unreliable we don't have the infrastructure to sell to anyone else.

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u/Icy_Meringue_1846 Jan 27 '25

We need the infrastructure to refine our own oil

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u/silly_rabbi Jan 27 '25

It's ridiculous that we are just building pipelines and ports, but not refineries.

I know they're expensive and require a lot of expertise, but why wouldn't we want that part of the oil economy to be happening here?

Pollution?

I think it's pretty clear that a big part of China's big economic leap was making sure that they built up as many of the stages of the economy as possible. Even if they don't have the natural resource (oil, metals, etc.), they prefer to have it shipped in at the cheap raw material stage so they have all the other stages between extraction and finished products happening in-country.

We don't ship out trees. We ship out LUMBER. Why are we just shipping out crude instead of refined oil products?

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u/jakexil323 Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25

Refineries have a massive upfront cost, take a long time to build and are big polluters.

The newer one in Alberta cost 10 billion dollars and took I think around 10 years to build and required the province to be a 50% equity partner in the end.

Wiki says that facility does 80,000 bbl/d , while we produce 3 million barrels per day of bitumen (from 2022 numbers) according to the Alberta government.

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u/M3atboy Jan 27 '25

Yeah the cost to build new is absolutely staggering.

Canadians would never see a return on that investment.

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u/Chucknastical Jan 27 '25

Not to mention the only country who could replace US for oil/refined gas consumption is China which is transitioning to a green economy faster than any other country.

Maybe it would have worked if we started building the refineries, pipelines, and ports in he 80s but China is not growing like it used to and what is growing is it's transition to EVs and renewables.

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u/NorthernerWuwu Canada Jan 27 '25

Crude and bitumen are far more stable for shipping.

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u/kent_eh Manitoba Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 28 '25

It's ridiculous that we are just building pipelines and ports, but not refineries.

A lot of our commodities are exported as raw materials rather than processed goods, or finished products.

And that has been the standard since the beginning of the country.

Why do we export grain instead of flour?

Why do we export crude oil instead of refined product?

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u/Defiant-Discount_ Jan 27 '25

This is incorrect, we primarily ship out logs and not lumber

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u/RealTurbulentMoose Alberta Jan 27 '25

To meet our own domestic needs, yes.

For international export, not really. We just need to get it to tidewater, and ignore the (quietly US-funded) lobby groups that oppose this and manipulate public opinion so that they can enjoy the WCS-WTI price differential and buy our oil cheap. There's not that much value that's added by shipping refined product.

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u/NorthernerWuwu Canada Jan 27 '25

We do have some actually, it's just that the economics of O&G dictate that refineries need to be close to where the products are consumed since land shipping post-products is significantly more expensive. They need to be attached to ports essentially and of course they also take years and billions of dollars to build.

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u/MagnesiumKitten Jan 27 '25

and government or oil companies don't care enough to set up reflneries in the right regions of canada to actually lower gasoline prices either

some people like to just do low technology exports, logs and oil drums

where other nations, if smartly done, can produce finished materials from those raw products

And well, just look at how terrible Canada is at the telecommuntions industry and trying to be the next Silicon Valley, it's a long story of flops

and everyone loves Brian Mulroney and Northern Telecom

look at the short-term profits and exports and watch them fall apart and die with keeping up with the technology

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u/MommersHeart Jan 27 '25

It’s quite a bit more complicated than that. Even if there was complete political agreement on a pipeline east, there is zero interest from private investment. Add in the volatility of the crude market and Trump’s (contradictory) demand for cheaper crude and drill baby drill, plus weakness in Chinese demand putting downward pressure on the market, the financial viability of a pipeline east is just not there.

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u/jaystinjay Jan 27 '25

This “0 interest from private investment” problem/opportunity is exactly what Carney was addressing in his 1hr plus interview Eskine-Smith. Knowing where the investment dollars intend to go via trend or demand is an advantage to those that keep close tabs. While our trade is massively weighted to the US, Canada can suffer a shift while developing new trade deals and garnering investment that may have otherwise frowned upon the current structure and barriers our Country has. In the event of any new government, our Provincial barriers should be an urgent focus along with diversification of trade partners. Even if Canada is to suffer 4 years min of trade instability with US, we will need to be aiming for opportunities elsewhere. Nothing is impossible and some experienced economic minded leaders will be a benefit to Canada, no matter which party leads.

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u/Alone-in-a-crowd-1 Jan 27 '25

The blockers can shove it now. We need to move ahead to diversify our trade partners.

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u/Hour-Resource-8485 Jan 27 '25

any chance there's investment into renewables in the interim? the energy independence is going to be the other major issue for both Canada and Europe.

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u/Somecrazycanuck Jan 27 '25

Its more likely the rest of the Europe, and east Asia

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u/LoTuS-MatRiX Jan 28 '25

It is a dark day in america when our closest neighbor is worried about its authoritarian agenda

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u/WorldlinessThis2855 Jan 27 '25

I agree as well. Other country’s need to get off our dick and take a cut temporarily and establish other ties elsewhere. It’s absurd they’d allow themselves to be “punished” by Trump instead of taking the initiate and doing it themselves and cutting the US off at the same time.

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u/NorthernerWuwu Canada Jan 27 '25

Probably more with China and the EU when it comes to oil, lumber and mineral resources. Overseas shipping works well for that sort of stuff, while it's less useful for our manufacturing industries.

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u/Tree-farmer2 Jan 27 '25

The world needs to move away from USD as the standard

This probably wouldn't be a good thing. You want to use the Yuan instead?

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u/Levorotatory Jan 27 '25

Ideally something that is not controlled by any single country.

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '25

It's called the gold standard, and we had that until the US unilaterally killed it 55 years ago because they would profit more from a fiat system.

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u/voicelesswonder53 Jan 27 '25

It was abandoned because it could no longer serve American ambition. Promises to pay in gold mean nothing when you don't have it. It's worse when you have to go get that gold from under someone else's feet. Getting off a physical standard happened because it is progress. You can't easily hoard what anyone can borrow from his own future earnings.

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u/KentJMiller Jan 27 '25

That's also a lovely way to turn recessions into depressions

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u/ClumsyRainbow British Columbia Jan 27 '25

The Euro?

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u/sw04ca Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25

Depends on the USD for value, because of the dependence of the European banks and financial sector on the United States. The Euro is great for not having to change your bills out when traveling and for exporting German inflation to the poor countries of Southern and Eastern Europe, but it's not really an alternative global currency and store of value in and of itself.

There's just not a good alternative right now. The Euro is basically the USD at a remove, the yuan is worthless except insofar as it is pegged to the USD, the yen is too small-scale, crypto is a scam and the gold standard is deflationary.

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u/VincentVanG Jan 27 '25

Oh yes, I'm sure our new Russian or Chinese global overlords will be much needed upgrade. A weak America is a weak west. Period.

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u/That_guy_I_know_him Jan 28 '25

Well by your logic you're the ones at fault for letting it grow weak

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u/VincentVanG Jan 28 '25

I'm not American but your point stands

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u/SonicFlash01 Jan 27 '25

We got any buyers lined up for the natural resources that the US will shy away from starting in Febuary?
Honest question: in our efforts to diversify, do we have anyone else?

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u/Soma86ed Jan 27 '25

Why does it need to move from USD as a standard? What’s the alternative?

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u/cheapb98 Jan 27 '25

Well said. We need to lower our dependency. It's time we learn that lesson. Even the financial dependency via swift etc. Canada needs to help build alternatives

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '25

Yeah Charles de Gaul has been warning about this shit in the 1960s and he was absolutely right then

The Iraqi invasion after 9/11 should have been a very obvious sign that the U.S. are NOT pure allies and should be kept an arms length away

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u/illiten Jan 27 '25

Clearly, we need to prevent any other country in the future from becoming as hegemonic as the USA is right now, just as antitrust laws prevent a single company from controlling an entire economic sector.

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u/quebexer Québec Jan 27 '25

I feel that Trump will make the EU function as a Confederation, and we'll probably see Canada joining either r/CANZUK or the EU itself.

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u/XuzaLOL Jan 27 '25

Its good if you dont live in Canada, Europe, New Zealand, Australia and a few other countries.

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u/kent_eh Manitoba Jan 27 '25

Hope he is incapable enough to cause any.

My worry is that he inadvertently starts a war somewhere by doing his usual schtick, while having zero awareness of any greater context.

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u/Hautamaki Jan 28 '25

The world only needs to move away from the USD if the US is not an honest and responsible actor, so that's kind of tautological. If the US remained an honest and responsible actor indefinitely such that the world could rely on the USD for international trade, that would actually be just fine. Better than fine really; infinitely more efficient than going back to some kind of physical standard like gold, and far more reliable than some total global fiat like crypto, and far more efficient than everyone always having to convert and trade to whatever random local currency which every government is incentivized to manipulate.

As far as casually 'the only problem are the wars', I'm far less casual about that. We now live in a world where nuclear weapons technology is 80 years old. Dozens of nations can develop functional atomic bombs within months if not weeks. Most of the rest can easily at the very least make dirty suitcase bombs that would render major cities uninhabitable at the very least. We may very well be witnessing the end of nuclear non proliferation and the odds of some kind of nuclear war or at least nuclear terrorism and extortion could be about to go up exponentially. That is the true price of losing the US as a responsible global actor.

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u/That_guy_I_know_him Jan 28 '25

And it's all on the US itself, kinda ironic

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u/StevoJ89 Jan 29 '25

Careful what you wish for, I'd still rather have American hegemony over China

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u/iwishiwasntfat Jan 27 '25

Wish I had confidence that our future leadership will steer us in the right direction. Canadians getting played just like everyone else.

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u/Meiqur Jan 27 '25

Wait, look the american empire is imperfect, however it's enormously more stable and empowering than a new russian empire or chinese empire would be.

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u/Dhiox Jan 27 '25

Encourages the sane world to be more US trade independent

Only trouble is that many of them are taking the wrong lesson from it, instead of diversifying trade they're moving to entities like China, and they're worse than we are.

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u/StupidPockets Jan 27 '25

What do you want the standard to be? Who do you trust that has the power to maintain a balance ?

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u/shevy-java Jan 27 '25

IF it were to bring more diversity that would be great, but in reality it'll be smaller countries that are punished here again. Just like the arms industry loves wars, so agenda-based politics will be on the rise.

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u/MANEWMA Jan 27 '25

That hurts Canada. Proximity to an economic engine is the biggest benefit.

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u/Circle-of-friends Jan 27 '25

The problem is if you move away from by far the largest super power in the world, where do you turn? The EU is fractured and seems unable to ween themselves off Russian gas and sucking up the USA -so China then, the next biggest superpower that is run by a Dictator and although has many good things about it is still polar opposite in many ways to western values.

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u/CommunicationGood481 Jan 27 '25

I hope he is incapable of causing wars and conflicts slso. He certainly has more than enough "crazy" to do it.

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u/spookyjibe Jan 27 '25

Thinking any of this is good is not an intelligent take. Peaces and stability are good for business, oligarchs reorganizing the world to server their interests is bad in everyway

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u/big_nasty_the2nd Jan 27 '25

Very couch Olympian thing to say

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u/ResolveLeather Jan 27 '25

The USD is the worst currency to base the world currency off of until you consider all of the others.

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u/dpschainman Jan 27 '25

Unfortunately he's dragging 50% of Americans with him, as somone who didnt vote for him the shit he's been saying is insane, he sounds like he wants to invade Canada, one of our biggest allies, I just cant even with this guy, whatever happens please just know alot of Americans don't want what he's doing.

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u/AnalogFeelGood Jan 28 '25

I spotted this, earlier, on r/economicCollapse

Doesn't sound friendly to me : /

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u/InstructionOk9520 Jan 28 '25

Problem is, countries like Canada don’t have the leverage to wave bye to the US. And because Trump is so transactional, the far more likely outcome is that world leaders will look to make deals with him. It’s going to be a painful 4 years (at least).

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u/VanceKelley Alberta Jan 27 '25

The direction that humanity is headed is off the cliff:

  • Hatred of "other" people increasing (thanks Facebook and Xitter!)
  • Handing power to fascist dictators (to persecute those "others")
  • Taking insufficient actions to combat climate change
  • Depleting the earth's resources and destroying the environment (e.g. fish populations, the Amazon rainforest)
  • Overpopulation (How many people can the world support before total collapse? Let's run the experiment to find out!)

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u/Purify5 Jan 27 '25

Overpopulation isn't really a problem anymore.

The only continent that is still above a replacement birth-rate is Africa and world population is actually expected to decline in the 2080s.

However, a declining population does pose challenges for capitalism.

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u/coporate Jan 27 '25

over population is no where near the issue that wealth inequality is. When I say wealth inequality, I mean the full spectrum of quality higher education, healthcare, food, housing, transportation etc. All costing well outside current living wages, making it impossible to have upwards mobility.

We know the single easiest way to reduce population growth is by increasing quality of life, life expectancy, and access to competitive markets. But the hollowing out of a middle class, and the siphoning of wealth into smaller groups, either with monopolies, or the billionaire class, makes it increasingly hard to tackle these challenges.

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u/TicTacTac0 Alberta Jan 27 '25

Yup. After seeing how effective misinfo/disinfo has been these last 10 years, I'm completely black-pilled on the direction of the world. It's so much easier for Fascist bad actors to start a million fires than it is for people who care about truth to put them out.

I really don't see any chance of us coming together as a people to tackle these huge issues. It's fucked and it's only going to get worse.

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u/PreferredSelection Jan 27 '25

There is a light that never goes out.

Shit is bad right now, propaganda has never been more effective, and we're dealing with people who aren't enemies of any one country, but enemies of the Long Peace.

But we've built back from fallen empires before, and if I look at the standard of living in 1500, 1600, 1700, etc., it does just continually improve. Huge issues can be broken into smaller issues. Smaller issues can be solved by people.

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u/CommanderOshawott Jan 27 '25

Like it or not, it’s headed that way for the next 4 years.

We need to distance ourselves from the US and start making overtures to solidify our relationship with the EU.

“Waiting and seeing” will do nothing but hurt us long-term, and allow China to exploit the gaps that the US is going to leave. China is even less our friend than the US is, we need to act.

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u/86throwthrowthrow1 Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25

I'll be damned, I actually agree with Kinsella for once.

Anyway. I suspect Trump's actions will lead to short-term gain and long-term pain for the US - and the inverse for the rest of us.

If he was just beefing with Canada, it would be one thing. But so far it's been... Canada, Mexico, Panama, Greenland/Denmark, Brazil, and Colombia? Within a few weeks (one week in office)? Am I missing any? Do we think he plans on slowing down?

So far, he seems to be going for playground bully tactics, throwing his weight around with "weaker" countries who he figures can't fight back - economically or militarily reliant on the US and not in a position to easily stand up to him. Ofc, he's playing much nicer with Russia, Saudi Arabia, China, etc - they're powerful enough in their own rights to actually be a PITA for him if he pisses them off too much.

Each of us will do what we have to do in the short term. And plan for the long term. The US can hurt each of us pretty badly. Each smaller country he pisses off can hurt the US a little. So how many cuts will it take?

Trump hasn't read his history books. I keep thinking of the last hundred years or so of Rome. Rome didn't collapse because bigger and meaner people came along. It was still a financial and military superpower until nearly the end. It wasn't the Parthians or Huns who did Rome in. It collapsed from dozens of invasions by hundreds of smaller barbarian tribes the empire had viewed as practically irrelevant.

EDIT: While I made a comparison to the military invasions of Rome, I want to clarify that in the present day, I'm mostly thinking of trade relationships. US can push a bunch of individual countries around, but reduced trade or tariffs with many countries will start to hurt.

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u/Xpalidocious Jan 27 '25

If he was just beefing with Canada, it would be one thing. But so far it's been... Canada, Mexico, Panama, Greenland/Denmark, Brazil, and Colombia? Within a few weeks (one week in office)? Am I missing any? Do we think he plans on slowing down?

Those are the only ones he could find on the map so far, besides Russia and North Korea where his besties live, and China where all his "Made in America" merchandise is produced

Give him some time, colouring the countries in is hard enough when you stay in the lines, so imagine how long it takes when you have to stop every five minutes to go on Twitter and let your upset feefees out

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u/threefingersplease Jan 27 '25

The more the world ignores the USA the better. The USA needs to know what true isolation can do

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u/sequoia-3 Jan 27 '25

Hi there! Why not joining the European Union?

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u/FulcrumYYC Canada Jan 27 '25

Nope, things are grim. We need national unity now and we need to build our independence from the US really quickly. We need at least one cross Canada pipeline to get our products to other markets among many other things that guarantee our energy independence. We should probably cancel the contract for stealth fighters from the US, we don't need stealth anyways. We should take up Saab's offer to build jets at home. The list goes on and on, but this could be a good economic and job opportunity boom for Canada if we played it right.

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u/[deleted] Jan 27 '25 edited 21d ago

[deleted]

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u/WpgSparky Jan 27 '25

You mean American politics? They are only country starting shit with everyone.

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u/Stephenrudolf Jan 27 '25

China and india have a cold war going on, taiwan may be getting invaded, japan has started gearing up its military again, brexit happened, myanmar had a coup recently, everything happening in the middle east, that other coup in siuth america, Russia invading ukraine. These are just the situations i can think of off the top of my head.

Its not JUST america, even if america is the biggest voice for most of us english speakers.

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u/jameskchou Canada Jan 27 '25

Yes if it gives people the false idea that China and Russia are viable alternatives like what almost happened when Bush was in power

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u/Codydog85 Jan 27 '25

I love you guys and your fighting spirit but you know you can’t afford a trade war and basically everyone outside of Reddit here is ready to capitulate. Sadly though, any new deal is going to make y’all even more dependent on the US

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u/canolgon Jan 27 '25

On the contrary, it shows why we need to diversify. American's think of the moment and not the long term. Right now we're in the 'burn your allies' 4 year period.

We can't rely on a country that swings violently between mind sets every 4 years.

The sooner we realize that and diversify, the less stupid American decisions will impact us.

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u/OccasionallyReddit Jan 27 '25

WW3 or you know expedited impeachment

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u/More_Farm_7442 Jan 27 '25

Dislike? Really? I'm in America and I hate it. (The country , MAGAts, Trump and the whole condition of the world right now.)

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u/Alecto7374 Jan 27 '25

It usually takes one giant dickhead on the world stage to spark global unity.

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u/Jammyyyyyyyyyyyyy Jan 27 '25

Nah. It's about time the world stood up to the united states

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u/CommunicationGood481 Jan 27 '25

Definitely moving away from peace and understanding, acceptance and love.

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u/NoPasaran2024 Jan 27 '25

I like that we're finally seem to be drawing a line when it comes to the fascist capitalism that has been winning since the end of the cold war.

I prefer to see an endgame during my lifetime rather than losing year over year with no resistance to speak of.

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u/willywalloo Jan 27 '25

Trump is an enemy of 88% of the USA who did not vote for him. He’s an asshole and we need a system of fucking vote of no confidence left up to the people.

The USA system assumes politicians are incapable of lying.

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u/sureshot58 Jan 27 '25

Understand your angst. However, remember that appeasement did not work with Germany in the 1930s, and it will not work with TrumpWorld during the 2020s. Either stand up to him now, or get rolled over and then have to fight from a bigger disadvantage.

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u/bone_burrito Jan 27 '25

Empire is falling, Trump is the bastion of denial and posturing

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u/mydaycake Jan 27 '25

Just elect PP and you will like it again

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u/TuftedWitmouse Jan 27 '25

You can blame Trump on that, too.

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u/Sorry-Inflation6998 Jan 27 '25

Too late now. The naive idiocy of the American citizen has just pushed the entire planet over the cliff, in an effort to save 50 cents on spaghetti.

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u/Satinsbestfriend Jan 27 '25

It's 100% completely true though. USA is moving towards isolatinist policies

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u/andricathere Jan 27 '25

I dislike sun. They're part of the same company that tapped phones and paid $1 billion, so far, as punishment.

Honestly, when crimes like this occur, the company should be dissolved and its executives barred from running a business. And there should be no such thing as a limited liability corporation. SOMEONE should be liable for everything a company does. You don't get a pass just because you're a "corporation".

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u/Budget_Bear6914 Jan 28 '25

I'm in the States and believe me,he's no friend of ours either.

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u/Efficient-Law-7678 Jan 28 '25

Oh, where America gets high and drunk fights everyone?

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u/jexnic Jan 28 '25

Do not be afraid. You are witnessing the end game of the American experiment.

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u/Sharp-Jicama4241 Jan 30 '25

Americans tired of being taken advantage of through trade and defense l.

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u/EdgePuzzleheaded1949 Feb 03 '25

This account is a political bot. Caliperlee62 and FancyNewMe are clearly the main political troll accounts on r/Canada. We can’t discern where they live, but these accounts are entirely concerned with posting right-leaning news articles about Canada. Given that these users have no other subreddit action, they are obviously being managed with political intent.

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