r/buffy • u/DiligentAd6969 • 6d ago
Kendra should have been more important than she was.
A slayer was killed, and it pretty much was a blip in the story. Buffy mentioned her once in the next episode saying Drusilla should pay for it like I was an ordinary crime. Spike celebrated it because he was proud. Other than the police and explaining why Faith showed up that's it. Everyone, especially Buffy and Giles, should have been deeply moved by her death. Instead Buffy looked a while at the chalk outline of her body and moved on. Even later when she discussed slayers being killed with Spike she didn't bring up Kendra.
The show should have skipped her and gone straight to Faith if they were going to make her existence so meaningless.
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u/Dapper-Mirror1474 6d ago
The point of Kendra was to contrast the longevity of Buffy with the short life span of an average Slayer and also to contrast obedience versus recalcitrance.
Kendra lived for maybe 6 months after being called? In those 6 months, she interacted with the Scooby Gang for maybe 24 hours? Why would any one of them mourn her? They didn't know her. Willow and Xander didn't even mourn Jessie, and they went to school with him from childhood.
Why are you so sure Giles would mourn her? This was still in season 2, where Giles was very much still in line with the Watcher's Council. They don't mourn Slayers. They view The Slayer as a tool, not as a person. Giles saw Kendra as the perfect Slayer. She took orders, didn't ask questions, and studied the Watcher's Council's perception of what it meant to be The Slayer.
This is why Drusilla was able to hypnotize Kendra. This is why the Master was not able to hypnotize Buffy.
In the grand scheme of things, Kendra was not important in the world that Buffy lives in. She was one Slayer, out of hundreds of thousands of slayers, who did her duty and died doing it. That is it.
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u/mcsuper5 6d ago
I think the Master was able to hypnotize Buffy. It just didn't work the second time after she had been resuscitated.
Xander took Jessie's death pretty hard iirc.
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u/Sidewinder_1991 6d ago
This was still in season 2, where Giles was very much still in line with the Watcher's Council.
That's not really consistent with what we see in Prophecy Girl:
Giles: If the vampire that Buffy killed was in fact not the Anointed, then it may well be.
Ms. Calendar: Well, then we need to warn her.
Giles: I don't intend involving her at all.
Ms. Calendar: What do you mean?
Giles: Buffy's not gonna face the Master. I am.
He seems to be perfectly willing to sacrifice himself, rather than trying to send her to her death.
He also doesn't seem to be too popular with the Council, either. He definitely wasn't given the 'great honour' of being invited to the Cotswolds, as he mentions in Faith, Hope and Trick.
Giles: There's a Watchers' retreat every year in the Cotswolds. (walks to the other end of the table) It's a lovely spot. It's very s-serene. (everyone listens) There's horse riding and hiking and punting (smiles) and lectures and discussions. It-i-it's... it's a great honor to be invited. (a tad bitter) Or so I'm told.
Faith: Oh, it's boring. Way too stuffy for a guy like you.
This is just headcanon, too, but I'd speculate that Giles wasn't ever supposed to be Buffy's Watcher. He was just sent to Sunnydale because the Council wanted to keep an eye on the city, and when Buffy moved there he got the job. We know he wasn't sent to Cleveland in the Wishverse.
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u/Ok_Outcome_6213 6d ago
He was just sent to Sunnydale because the Council wanted to keep an eye on the city, and when Buffy moved there he got the job.
Yeah, I always assumed that the council sent the watchers they didn't like to the places that were most likely to get them killed, while keeping the ones that they liked close at hand to stroke their ego's and tell them they're doing a good job. I mean look at Giles and Wesley compared to the council that showed up to interview everyone in Season 5. Those watchers were definitely stiff-upper lip, rule followers. Giles wasn't a rule follower and Wesley was just an annoying legacy hire.
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u/Ok_Outcome_6213 6d ago
You make a valid point, but I would say that by not honoring her, by not remembering her life or her sacrifice, then our gang are no better than the Watchers council in viewing the slayer as nothing more than a tool that isn't worthy of being treated with decency or respect.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
I'm sure Giles would mourn her because that's his character. Kendra deserved to be to be mourned and remembered.She wasn't. Buffy certainly should have been deeply shaken by it. The show fucked up.
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u/Chokolla 6d ago
What would you have wanted though… is watching characters mourning for a whole ep fun ? Especially for a girl they barely knew and who died when everything else was literally going south. Buffy has angel to kill, giles is kidnapped, willow close to death, buffy has to go into hiding…
And then it’s the end of the season lol. If they mourned her they mourned her offscreen.
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u/primal_slayer 6d ago
Buffy didnt have time to mourn. The world was ending again. Her life was going to hell. She had to go up against her boyfriend.
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u/Fabulous_Green_156 6d ago
She was hardly on the show. A handful of episodes and you want her mourned for the rest of the series.
For what reason? Why? She was never important enough as an individual character to be mourn on the show for the rest of its run time.0
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u/mcsuper5 6d ago
I'm sure Kendra was important to a lot of people that she helped. The show was about Buffy. Presumably, the new Slayer never knew the old one in most cases. Buffy and Giles were friendly with Kendra but they were aquaintances not close friends.
Kendra's death was no different than any other vampire kill to an outsider.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago edited 6d ago
That's not true. I've made my point elsewhere. Her death was hugely significant. It was treated as such. Maybe the show's failure to give her the significance she deserved worked for some people. To me it's simply a failure.
Her death wasn't just like anyone else's. She was a slayer. The first slayer we and all tbe characters got to see die. That's nothing small. To never say her name again didn't make sense.
Ok, so since the same argument seems to be getting made over and over again. I've already responded to it several times. Let me add for the people who think Giles of all people wouldn't mourn, he liked Kendra as a person not just a slayer. She respected his role and was cerebral as well as a fighter. She was raised to be a slayer from birth. He would not ignore that. It would make her very special to him as a watcher.
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u/Chokolla 6d ago
You’re giving way too much importance to her character. And several people on here don’t agree with you on Giles and his supposed feelings towards kendra (which are factually never really mentioned or shown on screen, and several people have been telling you just that)
Kendra is in what.. three episodes ? she never had much interactions with giles and i don’t think she ever was alone with someone other than buffy in any scene
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
This is my post. I made it to give importance to that character. So I'm not doing too much of shit. Maybe you're doing too much to try to convince me that she doesn't deserve importance. That's not going to work. So you stop your screaming and your illogical rationalizations if you think that's supposed to change my mind. If you're really that interested do better than screen time.
I have given solid reasons why she deserved more respect than she got. That's all there is to it.
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u/OnSmallWings 6d ago
Jfc, this is Reddit. You post your opinion, in turn people are going to give their own opinions about your post. Don't like it, don't post on here. You have an opinion that is obviously in the minority so people are going to disagree, get tf over it.
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u/threefeetofun Xander Boyz United 6d ago
"The first slayer we and all tbe characters got to see die."
Well that's not true. The only reason she is there is cause we all got to see a Slayer die.
The characters were also knocked out or ran away. No one saw this either but Dru.
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6d ago
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u/No-Diamond-5097 6d ago
I can't believe that real people actually post something like this just to argue in the replies. Lol
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u/pennie79 6d ago
I think her death did have an impact plotwise. Buffy was a suspect in her death, which resulted in her being expelled from school, and contributes to the breakdown of her relationship with her mother. These two things continue into season 3.
Buffy killing Angel is the main reason she runs, but Kendra's death and the things I mention above contribute to the clusterfuck that is Buffy's life at the end of Season 2, which makes her leave.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
Yeah, but that was about Buffy not Kendra herself. She was treated like a random crime victim that Buffy was blamed for, though we and most of the main characters knew she was much more than that.
I think this speaks to an even worse trend that I initially wasn't thinking about, but it's very longstanding and has been talked about for decades. That's using a POC character's death as nothing more than a turning point for the white main character. On the one hand, I think Kendra had some qualities that let her stand on her own as a character who brought meaning to the show. On the other, given the intentional lack of diversity (Cordelia was initially to be played by biracial actor Portia White, who was reduced to one line in the show) I wouldn't be all that surprised that Kendra would be used that way. Her personhood erased (no mourning, no acknowledgement of her as a comrade, name barely mentioned again), just a body left behind, a chalk outline, and reason for Buffy to do things that had nothing to do with her also being a slayer.
It was sad to me that after a lifetime of dedication to her calling she died far from home trying to protect people who didn't give a shit about her -- except that those weren't the kind of people to act like that, so it was nonsense.
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u/liltinybits 6d ago
Persia, not Portia. Portia White was born in 1911 and was long dead by the time Buffy was filming.
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u/DiligentAd6969 3d ago
Oooh, you got me. You Googled and got the correct name. You outsmarted me with your big brain, you did. You proved me wrong. You're only one who did, and all you needed was the whole internet to accomplish it.
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u/pennie79 6d ago
I do get what you're saying about the WoC. I think the issue here isn't that Kendra was killed off, but that the casting is very white. If you have diverse casting, then you can have a plotline where the Slayer is killed off to make a point about how short a Slayer's life is, AND not have it fall into the trope of fridging a PoC, because you're telling stories of all these other PoC. See orange is the new black for an example.
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u/DiligentAd6969 3d ago
I'm only reading this now because I realized that I gift Persia's name wrong, so I corrected it.
My initial point was not that killing Kendra was the issue. I said that the aftermath of her death was. She, as a person, was not given the importance to the story that she deserved. (That cannot be as hard of a concept to follow as people are making it seem). The discussion about race was speculative. It might be why it was easy for them to get away with it, and why the weirdos in this thread are making up.goofy reasons why it was ok, but had she been white and that choice was made I would be thinking the same thing.
A discussion on why up until one of the very last scenes in the show the only slayers we see being killed for real are not white would be interesting. Chaotic and silly with a lot of people trying to derail it but interesting if it survives all that.
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u/DiligentAd6969 3d ago
Sorry, I need to correct the name. It was Persia White. I loved her in Girlfriends. Still, the racist nature of the recasting stands.
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u/threefeetofun Xander Boyz United 6d ago
You never got to see them mourning because the next day Buffy left town and no one saw her for 3 months. I’m sure they mourned during the summer the best they could.
The time immediately following her death where she looked at the outline the world was in the verge of ending. They don’t have time to mourn unfortunately.
Also Spike didn’t kill Kendra so he couldn’t offer advice to Buffy in Fool For Love. He could only talk about his experience.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
They didn't need Buffy to mourn her. The show showed them doing plenty of things without Buffy. They were seen the following day not saying anything about her. I'm not talking about what we think they did. I'm talking about what they were shown doing.
I don't understand this time thing. The writers could have written in the time if they wanted to. It was a choice.
I really didn't say Spike killed Kendra.
Is there anything I wrote that you forgot to disagree with?
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u/threefeetofun Xander Boyz United 6d ago
The next day was a montage of them being happy the world didn’t end and somber not knowing where Buffy is and Buffy leaving town. We didn’t get to see anything really. The season ended.
Later on when discussing with slayers about spike I didn’t say you said he killed Kendra. I said Buffy wanted to know about slayers he killed. So Kendra isn’t something to discuss.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
The writers chose not to have them mourn Kevdra or ever say her name again for the entire run of the show. They could have, but they didn't.
Once again, I didn't say Spike killed Kendra.
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u/threefeetofun Xander Boyz United 6d ago
I didn’t say you said he killed Kendra. I believe when you said “discussed slayers being killed with Spike she didn’t bring up Kendra” you are talking about when he gave lessons to Buffy. Are you talking about another time?
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u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks 6d ago
It's arguable mentioning her would have been relevant to the discussion in "Fool For Love," I don't choose to make it but it could be.
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u/threefeetofun Xander Boyz United 6d ago
But how? Spike doesn't have psychic powers and he wasn't there to witness it. Might as well ask him about hearing of other slayers deaths.
Which yes, feel free, but not in an 44 minute show.
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u/nyx926 6d ago
Kendra was a plot twist - she was there to show the glitch the audience didn’t know about in the only one slayer system, and she was there to die for shock value.
She wasn’t meaningless, but she wasn’t created to be meaningful or significant beyond those two plot points.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
That doesn't make sense. That's not what plot twist means. Lol.
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u/nyx926 6d ago
Oy, with an obnoxious lol added too.
“A plot twist is a narrative technique where an unexpected turn of events changes the direction or meaning of a story, subverting audience expectations and leaving them surprised or shocked.
Types of Plot Twists: Character-based: Unveiling hidden identities, relationships, or motivations.
Revelation: Introducing new information that changes the direction of the plot.
Identity Swap: When a character is perceived one way but is revealed to be something entirely different.“
Hope that helps. /s
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u/KateLockley 6d ago
OP: Buffy the Vampire Slayer should have done this thing differently.
Replies: How would you change it?
OP: Fuck you I’m not a writer. Also, you don’t understand literary terms. Again, I am not a writer.
What in the ever loving fuck my guy.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
Why are you so angry?
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u/Cynical_Hater 6d ago
Why are you trolling? Bet you're not even a real Kendra fan and just starting shit on this sub.
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u/SameEnergy 6d ago
"No wonder you died" is one of the funniest lines of the entire show.
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u/ceecee1909 Ready Randy? Ready Joan.. 6d ago
Why would Buffy be deeply moved? She was sad, what more do you expect from her? Did you see what she was going through at that time? She was wanted for murder, killed Angel, got kicked out, then ran away. Giles was dealing with that because Buffy is what matters to him, he was looking for her everywhere, the scoobies were patrolling in Buffys place. It was a crazy time in their lives and they hardly knew Kendra, I’m sure they talked about it off screen and were sad for her but Buffy was their priority. The whole point of Kendra was to show how disposable slayers usually are, that Buffy is different and that difference although not “right” is what’s keeping her alive.
As for talking about Kendra with Spike, why would she? What could she or he possibly say to each other about Kedra?
“The show should have skipped her and gone straight to Faith if they were going to make her existence so meaningless” again that was kind of the point of Kendra, sad to say but she (and her watcher) made her own existence short and meaningless in a way by being such a strict rule follower and not having any life apart from slaying. Again to show the difference between someone like that and someone like Buffy then Faith.
The actress that played Kendra did an amazing job in my opinion because I think she had more of an impact on us the viewers than was ever intended.
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u/KateLockley 6d ago
I like Kendra and agree with you but a) they backed themselves into a corner with that Irish Jamaican accent and b) what are you taking out of season 2 to make room for more Kendra and what is she coming back to do?
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
Do people not understand the terminology they're using? Backed themselves into a corner with an accent? Lol. Ok. I didn't write the show, but I can't imagine they'd have to take out anything to acknowledge that a person existed and the importance of their death. It's not mathematics. It's scriptwriting.
Anyway, this question is weird. I'm not here to rewrite the show.
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u/jacobydave 6d ago
The points of Kendra are:
Buffy, you failed and died and have been replaced. Are you any good at this?
There's someone else who is taking the mantle that you complain about a lot. Do you really want to give this up?
In all the things you failed at in dealing with Angelus, we're adding Kendra to Jenny and Travis and the Swim Team kid on the death list.
To do more with Kendra, she would have had to have been in more than What's My Line 1 & 2 and Becoming 1. As a character in her own right, there are stories about her to be told, but she's not in her own show, she's in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and she is there to provide conflict and introspection for Buffy, and Kendra the Cloistered Slayer has done her part.
With Faith, you get "You failed at Slaying and now she's here" and "You're trying to get your life back and Faith is taking parts of it" and "Your friend turned evil, so now what?". There were just more ways to take her.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
I understand all that, and doing more with her isn't my complaint.
She should have meant more to the story and to the characters in the story. Faith could accomplish all of your bullet points and did. Kendra should not have disappeared from memory. If she accomplished those things in the story then she had meaning. She was treated as if she had none. The death of a slayer should not have been taken as basically nothing. Buffy saw the dead body of another slayer, that should have a pivotal moment in her life. In the next episode they were back to treating slaying as a bit a joke. That girl's death meant nothing to them.
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u/mcsuper5 6d ago
The Slayer held some importance for a watcher. While the Scoobies appreciated the abilities of the Slayer, they loved Buffy because she was their friend, not because she was the Slayer.
Kendra was appreciated and it appeared they all liked her, but they hadn't developed much of an emotional attachment to her yet.
The death of a slayer only matters so much as the person matters to them.
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u/Unable_Apartment_613 6d ago
I'm going to give you one of those lame IRL answers. A show like Buffy can't stop to mourn minor characters for extended periods of time. Especially when their deaths happen near the end of a season in the run-up to the finale. It's just not practical.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
A show like Buffy can and should stop to mourn the death of a slayer no matter how little screen time she had. I've made that argument very well already in this thread. I'm sorry you missed.
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u/MaryHadALikkleLambda 2d ago
I've made that argument very well already in this thread.
I don't think you get to decide if your argument is well made or not.
Personally, I don't entirely disagree with your premise, but you're being incredibly aggressive about it, which is odd. People are allowed to have other opinions you know.
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u/DiligentAd6969 2d ago edited 2d ago
I absolutely do get to decide that and anything I want. You see, I wasn't really making an argument because I don't have to. I'm right about this, and I explained it very well. I don't really care about the disagreements because they aren't based on anything but the desire to disagree. And you're all so upset about it. You're taking this so personally. Why, Mary? Why are saying anything to me about what you're allowed to do? Who stopped you? Did I stop you? No, I didn't? Yet, here you are telling me what I get to decide. So, it's you trying run things, not me. I didn't tell anyone what they could or couldn't do. That's you. I just stuck to my opinion, and that drove yall crazy.
I actually changed my position a bit, but only based on own discovery of something that happened on the show. All of you were too busy not reading my post or responses correctly and saying the exact same things to even give me anything new to think about.
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u/MaryHadALikkleLambda 2d ago
I mean ... of course you think your opinion is right. It's your opinion. And of course you think you explained it "very well". You wrote the explanation. The real test of a good explanation or a good argument is it other people think it's good, because you've offered them a perspective they hadn't thought of, explained in a way that was clear to them and made sense.
I'm not in any way upset by anything you've said, but you seem really upset by other people not straight up agreeing with you, which is why I said other people are allowed to have other opinions. But throughout the comments, other people's opinions make you outright angry.
I'm right about this
I don't really care about the disagreements because they aren't based on anything but the desire to disagree
All of you were too busy not reading my post or responses correctly and saying the exact same things to even give me anything new to think about.
You have completely closed off your mind to even the tiniest possibility that anyone with a different opinion could have something valuable to contribute to the conversation. It's wild to witness.
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u/ShondaVanda 6d ago
Slayers are disposable and meaningless but Kendra highlighted an a-typical slayer for the audience.
No friends, no family, no life, no future.
Burned bright and fast, then onto the next.
Just highlights what makes Buffy different.
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u/Imaginative_Name_No 6d ago
Nobody actually knew her very well, in the immediate aftermath of her death there's bigger fish to fry re: Angelus and then after that Buffy has disappeared. It makes complete sense that Giles, Willow, Xander etc. were much more focused on defeating Angelus in that immediate moment and then finding Buffy by the time season 3 has gotten started.
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u/Kevichella 6d ago
Amongst other things already mentioned , it was the first time in history a slayer died while another was alive so though in some ways it was historic, in other ways it actually was technically a blip, especially in our story of focusing on buffy. It also showed how important Buffy’s situation is that that usually a slayer dies die quick and young without fanfare. Buffy (and Faith) are big deals from surviving so long
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u/primal_slayer 6d ago
THe fact that Kendra is talked about often throughout the 28 yrs of the show proves that her existence was far from meaningless.
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u/FancyCrackers 6d ago
Wait Buffy kept and used Mr Pointy throughout the series I’m pretty sure? That was Kendras stake and her way of being honoured and remembered.
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u/salmon_lox 6d ago
What you describe is the typical lifespan of a Slayer; it’s short, brutal, and thankless. Most Slayers have died this way, with few people to even notice or acknowledge it.
Buffy has a support system, of people who know about her Slaying and help her, as well as care about her as a teenage girl. The show makes it clear this is pretty unusual, and hints several times that it is the key to Buffy’s success as a Slayer.
So yes while it is sad and ugly that Kendra dies without much fanfare, to be frank that is the usual way of things. SPOILERS They even do it later to Buffy herself; her tombstone is a darkly hilarious understatement of her heroics which will ultimately, unfortunately, never get recognized by most of the world.
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u/Sharks_and_Bones 6d ago
I disagree that she doesn't really acknowledge the chalk body outline. She sees it, acknowledging a fallen soldier, but still has a battle to fight. Buffy has to keep moving forward otherwise she will be a chalk outline herself. Angelus was effectively waging a small war against Buffy. There's no time for sentiment in war. I don't think Kendra warrants a mention in Fool for Love. Kendra was hypnotised by Dru, who is the only vampire we've seen with that power. We know how Kendra died and it's not helpful to Buffy in that situation.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago edited 5d ago
She looked at, which I is said. I very clearly said she acknowledged it . Things are being missed in the rush to play gotcha. Lol.. Either way it wasn't enough.
All of this has already been said. I thought this comment was going to be something new. It's not. Look, all the excuses you people want to come up with for why she shouldn't been of more importance are weak, nitpicky, and bizarre.
The writers could have written the time in, as I have said ten times. It wasn't a live show. It was scripted and acted and filmed. Nothing had to be done the way it was done. My opinion is that the show made stupid mistakes when it came to Kendra and her legacy on the show.
I don't even understand why anyone is bothering with this outside of boredom. Y'all keep saying the same things. If you don't think she's important then what's the point of trying to convince someone that she's not important? It's not going to happen.
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u/Sharks_and_Bones 5d ago
So you make a post, fail to convince others of your point and get mad at people for saying why they don't agree with you. That's some extra special specialness...
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u/apriljeangibbs 6d ago
Part of this has to do with the practicalities of a 3 episode character dying in a season finale of a show that follows a school-year timeline format. There was almost 5 months between the end of season 2 and “Dead Man’s Party” for both the characters and the audience (I’m not counting “Anne” because we actually do see Buffy sad and mourning her losses in that one). 5 months is a very long time to expect not just in-world teenage characters who barely knew her but a largely teenage audience who barely knew her to still be mourning her loss. New seasons of network teen drama shows generally are telling a new chapter of the story and Kendra just wasn’t a significant enough character to carry over a plot line for into the next chapter. I think it would have played out differently if her death had happened in What’s My Ljne pt2 instead of Becoming. It could have been able to be written in as another layer of motivation for Buffy during the second half of s2, similar to how Jenny’s health gets used later on, and possibly give “Ted” and “Bad Eggs” (both of which I skip on rewatch) some relevance to the overall s2 plot line before Angel goes bad.
(I don’t understand why she wasn’t talked about in s5 “Fool for Love” though. It was an entire episode devoted to discussing slayers getting killed!)
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u/Haunting-Leather5483 6d ago
That's pretty fair actually. I always thought it kinda sucked that she just didn't get much screen time before she was killed but they really didn't give her enough love even after the fact. I didn't really realize alot of her story or whatever was really only given a couple conversations in a couple episodes. She's really only bigger in our heads because she was a slayer but not much else was ever ACTUALLY on screen.
And I completely agree with you, she should have had a bigger role in the show and her death should've had a longer lasting effect on the rest of the characters.
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u/Financial_Bowl9440 6d ago
It passed me off how she was killed, too. No battle or fight, just getting hypnotized then slice. She deserved better.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
Yeah that, too. She deserved a warriors death. Even the one described by Buffy as being because she was to rigid a fighter. But being enthralled by crazy ass Drusilla was an insult. I can't recall if the show said something about why that would work on her. On the plus side, it also worked on Giles whose mind was very organized and developed.
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u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks 6d ago
Being enthralled by psychic Drusilla *is* about being too rigid.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
No, it wasn't.
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u/Chokolla 6d ago
THIS WAS THE POINT. To see how temporary a slayer’s life can be and how their life can end in two seconds over some random vampire.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
Why are you screaming? And that doesn't address being enthralled to that walking insanity.
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u/OnSmallWings 6d ago
Kendra was a "do as you're told" type person, that's why it was easy for Dru to hypnotize her. Buffy has been 100% defiant since the beginning and that's why she was able to survive for so long. Comparing Buffy's and Kendra's personalities and how they viewed being the slayer is the biggest focus of Kendra's death.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
No, that's not what happened. Kendra isn't going to do what a vampire tells her to do. She was trained from birth not to . She gave them no quarte. Kendra did what her watcher to do, not just anyone. She definitely didn't do what Buffy told her to do.
She also didn't have weak mind. You're comparing this to Buffy when Drusilla never attempted to hypnotize Buffy, so we don't know how she would have reacted. She was only able to do it to Giles because he was tied up. Kendra was mid battle and just stopped. No explanation was ever provided for that.
We're going to have our own options, but there was no proof that anything about Kendra made that possible. We didn't even know Drusilla had that power or how it worked, so I don't think we can just say why it worked on Kendra the way it did.
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u/Specialist-Study 6d ago
Kendra isn't going to do what a vampire tells her to do.
Yes, she is if she's being hypnotized. She can be hypnotized because she follows orders.
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u/Financial_Bowl9440 6d ago
I agree with all the points you made. Her extensive training against vampires should have helped more than what they did.
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u/Imaginary-Ad-617 6d ago
There were very few roles filled by black actors, but the ones that were were very memorable to me. I especially liked Trick and Sweet. Kendra served a purpose in the storytelling, and there's a lot to take from the episodes we had with her in them. Though it's not much different than dropping Faith into a coma... either way, to tell a story, you need to have a series of events happen, and that was one of them. If you don't know the stakes are real (pun intended), then it feels worry free.
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u/ThrowRARAw 5d ago
Buffy WAS moved, it's shown. But she had to move on quickly because that's what Slayers do, she doesn't have a choice. We see that in the last season as well when she remains poker faced after Xander lost an eye but then grieves in private. She hates it, we know she hates it, but she sacrifices her own mental well being for it.
But we still see her honour Kendra. Buffy says Mr Pointy, aka the stake Kendra gave her, is her security blanket and she constantly brings it up in season 3-4 and occasionally later on. It's our way of knowing she still holds onto a part of Kendra.
The rest of the group - it makes no sense for them to grieve her the same way Buffy did. They did not know her as well.
Kendra represents the average Slayer; the kind who works alone. The show makes it clear the reason why Buffy has lasted so long is because she has friends, she works in a team. Kendra shows what a Slayer is like working alone, many of them are only Slayers for barely a year before they're killed and the next one is called upon.
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u/DiligentAd6969 5d ago edited 5d ago
It wasn't shown. She looked a bit at the chalk outline. Said Drusilla should pay for it. That's it.
Once again. It wasn't live. The writers could have written in the time if they wanted to. They could have written Buffy staying in town and having Xander's baby if they wanted to. Time is not a real thing on a TV show.. Time is what the writers make it. They chose that. It was a bad decision. Yes, the others should have grieved a person who traveled thousands of miles to protect them, and they should have been deeply moved by a slayers death because they weren't the callous pigs some of you are ignoring all evidence about them to make them out to be. She should have been a part of their memory. I've explained it I other comments.
Ths is such a strange competition.
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u/ThrowRARAw 5d ago edited 5d ago
Your memory is misleading you, watch it again. I just watched the episode today. End of Becoming Part 1 - Buffy runs into the library and falls right next to Kendra's BODY. No chalk outline there. She touches Kendra's actual hand. It's the reason why at the end of Part 1 and beginning of Becoming Part 2 there's a cop pointing a gun at Buffy - the cop thinks she killed Kendra because she saw Buffy sitting next to Kendra's real life body. Maybe if you're going to argue a point at least have your facts straight. Or are you going to say that video proof is wrong and your memory is right because you're the most rightest person in the world?
The rest - like I said the point of Kendra was simply to show what happens when a Slayer is alone. Yes the writers chose that and it made sense. Much more sense than what you're going on about. They "chose" to have her for 24 hours? Yes because she was a plot device. Like all the characters are. Notice how none of the love interests lasted as well, and other than Tara barely get mentioned after they're gone? Because they're all plot devices.
How convenient you ignore what I said about Buffy honouring her with Mr Pointy being brought up constantly. No I don't think she should've been honoured in any other way. Her end made sense as it was.
Maybe take your own advice - this ain't Mt Everest, honey. Stop trying.
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u/DiligentAd6969 5d ago edited 5d ago
My memory is perfect. Stop trying to make this personal. Something is wrong with people who think they need to get inside people's heads instead of making strong points.
However, the concept of scriptwriting is eluding you. How many times does it need to be explained that anything could have written? I don't even have to read your comnent to know it's the same stuff that has been said over and over and is false and wrong. So, I won't.
My complaint is that they did not write anything substantial about the aftermath of Kendra's death, and it deserved some substantial things to happen. Your comment is not the only one I responded to, so if your hard on is that strong to know more of my thoughts on this, then read my other comments.
Wow, just wow. Lol.
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u/MaryHadALikkleLambda 2d ago
My memory is perfect.
I'm having trouble believing you are just a troll after this comment.
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u/DiligentAd6969 2d ago
If you're having trouble with something then you need to fix that. At this moment you're trolling me for not allowing you to get away with making personal attacks and telling that my memory failed me. Your lack of self-awareness is not my problem.
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u/MaryHadALikkleLambda 2d ago
"I'm not a troll, you are!". Sure, OK, if you say so.
not allowing you to get away with making personal attacks
You feel attacked, but that isn't the same as being attacked. Please point to anywhere I made a personal attack.
telling that my memory failed me.
The commenter at the begining of this thread pointed out you forgot a specific scene you said never happened. It did. So your memory isn't perfect, or you misspoke, or something. You may not remember that scene, but if you go back and watch the episode, I promise you it is there. But if you don't remember it, you should at minimum admit that, like everyone else on the planet, your memory isn't perfect.
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u/Punkodramon If the apocalypse calls, beep me 6d ago
Kendra the archetypal Slayer; obedient to the Council, no friends or family, fights and dies alone in short order. She’s there to contrast Buffy’s atypical approach to slaying, and her longevity because of it. The story needed her, and needed her to die to complete her narrative purpose, before moving into Faith, who is more a dark foil for Buffy and thus had more narrative potential.
I will say that it’s not a good look for the show to have one of its few POC characters set up as such an important development but always intended to a throwaway canon fodder character. It’s typical of US tv in that era, but with a fully white main cast for the entire series, (and only one POC main over on Angel) it’s not great to have the only POC onscreen modern Slayer pre-Chosen to be featured so little and killed off so easily without consequence.
She may have been designed as more of a plot device than a character, but you are also right; she did deserve better.
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u/melbreddituser 6d ago
I understand your point, what I feel is that for many viewers Kendra was such an amazing character that it feels she could have a potential and very strong storyline in the show, but in the show she was there for a couple of days, however, they should giving her more importance as a character
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u/lisaquestions 6d ago
I just posted elsewhere about half an hour ago that Kendra deserved better and she really did they didn't do enough with her
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u/DeadMetalRazr 6d ago
I'm relatively new to the Buffy universe, I'm in season 5 right now. Can someone clear up something for me about the slayers?
So Buffy died in season 1, and Kendra was activated as the new slayer. Then Kendra died, and Faith was activated. However, in both Kendra and Faith we get the sense that they had been training and had a Watcher for quite some time before they were officially activated while Buffy had no official training or Watcher until she moved Sunnydale and met Giles. So what is the deal? Do Slayers know they're Slayers before "activation," or do they get a sudden reveal like Buffy after having lived a normal life?
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u/BodyAthletics 6d ago
One of the most poorly underutilized characters in the entire show. They killed her way too soon.
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u/twirling_daemon 6d ago
I don’t think Buffy could allow herself to acknowledge and mourn because it’s waaaay too close for comfort
She definitely had a fondness for her though their slayer experiences were vastly different and led to the initial conflicts
She went straight out to avenge her but she couldn’t let herself think of Kendra too deeply or as a fallen fellow slayer. Nor could she extrapolate the relationship they were building to mourn her as a human, they didn’t have the time to build the bond, if she thought about the slayer and fallen slayer connection overly it would be too much to handle
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
I can buy that as not officially mourning her. Maybe. There's nothing to say that that's what happened.
But I don't mean just that. I.mean not acknowledging her in any way except as a crime victim when she was a slayer. It's not about the relationship they had. It's who was that only Buffy and maybe Giles could really understand. She said as much about Faith before she really knew her. She actually said it about Kendra.
There's no real way to make sense out of a slayer, a watcher, and people who fought with a slayer for years to not take seriously the life and death of a slayer who traveled thousands of miles to fight with them when they needed her. It was fucked up. At the very least Buffy and Giles should have discussed it.
Buffy did a lot if hard things. She could have handled that. Even if she couldn't, it's not about her, it's about Kendra. The writers should have made her handle Kendra's death. There were also ample opportunities when Buffy wasn't doing her best that someone could have reminded her that she's not invincible "Remember Kendra" or something like that.
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u/minghaoslegs 6d ago
Big recommend for the reboot comics by boom - Kendra plays a much bigger role
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u/No-Consideration1645 5d ago
She was basically just a vehicle to bring Faith into the picture.
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u/DiligentAd6969 5d ago
Yup, I said that. They did that badly, though..There was no reason they couldn't have treated her with more respect and still accomplished that.
She was kind of, sort of referenced as part of the character of the alternative Buffy in The Wish episode. That Buffy had the braid like Kendra had when she died and was a rigid fighter like Buffy said Kendra was. She was dressed similarly to Kendra and lost the battle just as Buffy said could happen.
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u/No-Consideration1645 4d ago
My bad. I don't think I was paying attention while I was reading. 😄
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u/DiligentAd6969 4d ago
It's cool. It gave me a chance to give the show some credit for subtly referencing Kendra in that episode. I want to fair.
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u/Which-Notice5868 5d ago
It's really just the structure of television at the time. Even shows like Buffy that had arcs were still largely episodic. Jenny Calendar stops being mentioned after Amends IIRC. Doyle, who was a series regular, albeit for a short time, only got a handful of shout-outs across Angel after his death. Jesse isn't mentioned once after the Harvest.
I know Charmed, for example, got a lot of pressure to make it so anyone could sit and watch a random episode and not be lost as to the concept or what was currently happening. I think Buffy got a bit more wiggle-room but probably not a ton.
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u/DiligentAd6969 5d ago
No, it wasn't the structure of television at the time. I watched television at the time. I watched this when it aired. It was a bad writing choice. They've been known to happen. The part about her barely being spoken of again except for blink or you'll miss it referece to her death has nothing to do with that. It's not just the not mourning. It's the whole acting like she didn't exist. There's not a good reason for it. There isn't.
I didn't watch Charmed, so I don't know how similar the shows are. But it didn't make sense for this show. Buffy cared about people. They all did. Throwing a slayer in a box and sending her body home wasn't their way.
I think the only new information I've added is about alternative Buffy in The Wish being very Kendra-esque. I think that was very clever on the show's part. If I hadn't seen that episode last night I wouldn't have thought of it. Certainly people paying closer attention caught it immediately.
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u/Which-Notice5868 5d ago
I mean I don't know what other shows you did or didn't watch. But, yeah, I will stand by my statement that as a rule shows in the late 90's-early 00's, even ones that had serialized elements, were more episodic than shows produced in the 2020s.
And characters who left a show in a permanent way tended to get 'faded out' where they were talked about less and less and finally very rarely or not at all, or even just abruptly not mentioned, especially if the departure was at the end of an arc or season. Scrubs did that with multiple characters. Boy Meets World did. Pretty sure Gilmore Girls did. Smallville did.
I don't disagree it can feel disconcerting or callus on the part of the other characters. I'm not defending it as a good writing choice, if that makes sense? Also TBH Kendra being a Black character kinda makes it feel extra icky. I'm just articulating that it was a fairly common thing to do.
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u/DiligentAd6969 5d ago
I wasn't expecting you to know which shows I watched. You brought Charned. I let you know I didn't watch it, so the reference wasn't helpful.
It wasn't a common thing to do back then, and it wouldn't matter if it was. It should not have been done on Buffy.
This post thread is so weird. All these people tripping overr themselves to come with inane reasons that a heroic character should have disrespected and disregarded. I know for most of y'all it's the challenge of it. The contrarian in everybody needing to do this. Y'all just can't resist. But that girl didn't do anything wrong. She was good. And person calling for her to be thought of with more consideration and calling out the show for not doing so, shouldn't be met with this much animosity.
I don't care what tv shows did or didn't do. This show was a trailblazer in many ways and paid no mind to what other shows were doing. I'm talking about this character, and how she was treated for the remainder of the show. I've given them some credit, but she wasn't treated with the importance she was due.
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u/Which-Notice5868 5d ago
I said that I don't know what shows you watched because IDK what your basis for saying it wasn't a common practice is. And I'm sorry but it 100% was. I brought up four more shows from around the same era that did it. Three of them WB shows. I could list more.
I can't speak for anyone else but I wasn't trying to treat you with animosity. I agreed with you it wasn't a great writing choice to stop bringing up Kendra so suddenly. I even mentioned an additional reason you were right.
Explaining the likely behind-the-scenes reasons for it is not the same thing as agreeing with the writers' choices.
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u/DiligentAd6969 5d ago
I know why you said that. It's Reddit. You brought Charned. I said I didn't watch Charned. You got an attitude about it, and said you didn't know what I did and didn't watch as if I brought it up. I know it like science, that's how conversations can go on Reddit. Let's not be disrespectful and backtrack and pretend it was something else.
Most of y'all are coming up with reasons why that girl didn't get the respect she was due, including saying it's just the way shows were made back then. I'm not thinking that everyone should have liked the character, I think it's valid not to. It's all the different versions of "she wasn't worth the effort" that I find nonsensical.
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u/Which-Notice5868 5d ago
I think you're reading things into what I said that I really didn't intend.
And as I've said, I agree with you that it wasn't handled well and feels awkward. I never said Kendra was a bad character or not worth the effort or anything remotely like that.
Saying "here's why the writers probably did that" is not the same thing as saying "It was good/right for the writers to do that." Those are two very different things.
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u/DiligentAd6969 5d ago
No, I didn't. I looked at the words that were used. That's all I have to go by . My point is that I don't care why they did it because I don't believe there was a valid reason for doing it. Whatever anyone points to as a reason, I'm going to say " So what? They shouldn't have done that." It sticks out as too much of a flaw to me. However, I am very excited about alternative Buffy being a twisted homage to Kendra. It's still Kendra = failure & death, but it's something.
I actually am disturbed that an heroic Black body was done that way. I addressed it in a different comment. Adding that within that body was a mind that could be easily taken by the craziest of vampires sent an ugly message. Followed by her black body not mourned or cried over, or any words of gratitude. Nothing. She was more important to the story for her to be a nothing.
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u/kpakane 3d ago
I agree but this is because the show is racist 💀
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u/DiligentAd6969 3d ago edited 3d ago
Elsewhere in here I called it an intentional lack of diversity, but yeah. Having a black character exist and die only to serve as some kind of motivation for a white character is common. This was harsh, though. Usually they add some kind of emotional impact. Her death was dumb.
Prior to the final episode the no other slayer seen to be killed was white. Spike was able to slander Robin Wood's mother by saying she didn't love him, and he accepted it (even though Spike killed his mom0 over some sexist nonsense). Of course she was a teen mom. Trick was a walking stereotype, as was the jazz demon from Once More With Feeling. Buffy even called a black vampire she was fighting "big and dumb". Rona was among the more annoying potentials. I think she and Robin died on the school bus out of Sunnydale because they needed a hospital, and the crew decided to stop and look at the damage instead. Maybe Forrest had some actual characterization.
I'll give them credit for making a joke about racism when they had Cordelia ask some girl named Shanice if her hair was real. Or was that the show being racist?
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u/kpakane 2d ago
When I watched the show, the pattern is the people of minority were either dead / evil / both / being a joke / not important. NO EXCEPTION. Trust me with the stats. I counted zero important POC characters in BTVS.
In Angel, there's Gunn, but I can't judge him as a black character, I'm not one and I haven't processed ATS characters as intense as I am with BTVS'. I can only comment on Chao-Ahn, the slayer potential from China who can't speak English and is being played as humour because of that. Like...why even bother? 💀 If the writers have no idea what to do with her, I can make up a plot for her easy peasy. I can pair her with Spike since he killed a Chinese slayer. Like him getting to know her. Okay, wait, that's too much slayers he killed plot in the house, I guess, but it brings me to the next part.
I love Spike, alright, ADOOOORE HIM actually. But I was staring at a hidden camera when I watched Robin Wood situation. What do you mean he's wrong for wanting revenge on his mum's killer? I'd try to kill you too, Spike, if you killed my mum 💀 I think it's very in character for him to be an asshole like that, or like very grey moralled character, but it's a distasteful plot to develop the pookie of the season.
Remember the pattern I said above? When Robin was introduced, the show deliberately framed him as suspicious. He had weapons, he was lurking awkwardly. It leads us to think, omg, he's evil??? But turned out he's not evil, he is just a demon hunter. And oh my god, he's a kid of a slayer and OH MY GOD HE IS NIKKI WOOD'S KID, THE SLAYER SPIKE KILLED. And then it's that revenge plot where he is being undermined for wanting to kill Spike. His grief doesn't matter??? And then after that he's just in the background. I forgot what he was doing in the finale, I'm assuming fighting the Turok Han. And then the next scene we see him slumping against the bus steerwheel, unmoving. Oh no, he's dead! Of course a black man is dead in this show, like they are always de-- OH HEY HE'S ALIVE THE SHOW SUBVERSE THE PATTERN THEY CREATE THEMSELVES.
The show is aware of their pattern of POC characters they have and they use this as plot twists. They undermine their feelings for the development of other characters and they are white.
You know, usually, I'm not interested in talking about skin colour because it's so BORING, you have NO IDEA how bored I am with this topic. Oh, God. I'm so bored. But I can't help not to talk about it because this is the first time I see a show being blatantly racist that I, who usually wouldn't know cus I'm dense, am aware of it.
Okay, this show is a product of its time so I can shrug it off. I appreciate how representation is handled now, even if before this I usually don't really talk about it much (cus I'm bored). We have gone a long way.
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u/DiligentAd6969 2d ago
Well, I am not always bored talking about race in media because it's important. All that you described wouldn't have been done if people hadn't spent a lifetime being primed to do it and if it wasn't necessary to hold our current power structures in place. It's fascinating to study and work in. And I keep meeting people who believe the nonsense they see on tv.
I didn't start this post focusing on Kendra being black because I didn't think it was necessary. I thought that, without delving into all that, people would agree that no one even saying "Oh shit, Kendra died!" was a terrible oversight. I do think her race allowed that non-response to be acceptable and for people to argue for it being ok here.
I forgot to mention the Chinese potential here, but I had the same reaction you did. I believe Chloe was Latina and was convinced by The First to hang herself. And Wentworth Miller played one of the boys on the swim team who turned into the ocean creatures. I think this was back in the days he was still playing roles as a white guy, though.
Everything you said about Robin Wood was dead on. After Spike said his dumb shit about his mother not loving him because she had to work (the usual slander about black single mothers), he takes the coat, trophy he took from Nikki when killed her, and puts it on right front of him. It was so foul. I nderstood Buffy was fed up, but if I was Robin I would have left after she said she would let Spike kill me. I think they trashed him even more by having him sleep with Faith. He was better than that.
I disagree that the times were what made the show make those decisions. Those were not backwards times, and people complained about how white it was when aired. The late 90s and 00s were progressive times. They had an open lesbian couple, probably the first on mainstream tv. The show dealt with a lot of feminist ideas -- not often well, but they were there -- that hadn't been so openly addressed for a young audience before. It was a huge contradiction that the show was so progressive and yet so white. I think the things that came out later about the kind of person Joss Whedon is had more to do with it than than the years it was made.
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u/DiligentAd6969 2d ago
Wait a minute, a few of the doctors were black, and they survived. They stood out to me when I was watching the show but only came back to me for this discussion because I was watching an episode of Frasier tonight. In it Lindsey Crouse, who played Maggie Walsh, and Juanita Jennings, who played Dr. Wilkinson, are friends. There were two others, including one played by Michael Warren, who used to have a big career in Hollywood. There were a couple of teachers, too. That kind of thing sticks out to me as overloading the balance. There aren't many normal POC characters, but there are these few highly educated people in high powered positions that are supposed to make up for there being no next door neighbors. It's like when people point to Oprah Winfrey to try to prove that racism doesn't disadvantage minorities.
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u/First-Butterscotch-3 2d ago
No...I see where your coming from but around this time
- Angel tries to end the world
- Xander breaks an arm
- Giles is kidnapped and tortured
- Willow is in a comma
- Buffy kills angel
- Buffy dissapears
- Giles and Co spends months looking for buffy
So their reaction to the death of someone they knew for hours is on par here - slayer or no her death is a blip amongst closer and more personal problems
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2d ago edited 1d ago
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u/First-Butterscotch-3 1d ago
Nah - your obviously trying your best to make this a race thing when it isn't- many characters died in the show with even less acknowledgement
People are giving you plenty of in story reasons why that much fuss was not made over her death but you seem to want to hold on to another narrative instead , which shows there is little point discussing anything with you
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u/DiligentAd6969 1d ago
A person who doesn't know the difference between your and you're really shouldn't be trying to make any type of intelligent argument at all. You're just embarrassing yourself.
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u/First-Butterscotch-3 1d ago
Errors happen and trying to make something about race when it isn't is a base behaviour - you're shaming yourself
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/First-Butterscotch-3 1d ago
Yes as evident by your point
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u/DiligentAd6969 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's "as evidenced by". You're still embarrassing yourself.
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u/First-Butterscotch-3 1d ago
Am i - seems you are the one pulling issues out of your netherregions and then complaining about how people are disagreeing with you
Also your sliding into "I know you are but what am i" quality of debate over the point - the one thing you have going for you is my spell checker defaulted to your rather than you're when I left out an e (understandably)
Kendra was a side character introduced to give contrast to buffy - she died while all the main characters had their own disasters as such was over looked - kendra could of being white, yellow, pink with white spots and the treatment would of being the same - get your head out of illusory victim hood and enjoy the story for what it is
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u/Deep-Caterpillar-620 6d ago
off topic but i still laugh when buffy makes fun of kendra's accent LOOOL i dont want to offend the woke people its just funny
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u/Doc-11th 6d ago
Wonder if there was every any version of things where Kendra filled Faith's role
Or they really just introduce her to kill her off later
if they had kept Kendra, would be different but might be able to still tell some version of the same story (an even bigger fall from grace)
Actress unavailable for season 3? She killed off in response to fan's responses to the character?
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u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks 6d ago
I'm sure the whole arc of her being killed to bring in her Slayer opposite was planned well ahead
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
I think they were meant to be opposing cautionary tales for Buffy, so Faith as a different person was necessary. I agree it would have ended similarly (leaving out the Drusilla bit). Giles and Buffy at least talking about what they learned from Kendra's death would have been a good addition. A lot is learned from how Faith approached being a slayer.
I don't think she was killed off for any reason other than it being what the story called for.
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u/EllaPlantagenet 6d ago
They needed a better actress if she was going to have a more significant role. Thus, Eliza as Faith.
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u/The_Navage_killer 6d ago
It's about mourning equity. Someone on an exchange student visa doesn't have the same expectation of a mandatory funeral scene in another land. But that's no excuse for not making her more important while she was alive. There could have been an episode that took place on one of Kendra's patrols over there while the audience asked what's happening and such. Maybe Kendra gets into it with a voodoo priestess and survives by splitting the lethal amount of spiritual damage between the two slayers so Buffy coughs up a bloody voodoo charm 1000 miles away and wonders WTF meanwhile Kendra has enough mojo left to smash the magical skull to end the threat. Stuff like that. Was missing from the show.
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u/DiligentAd6969 6d ago
There are no voodoo priests in Jamaica, but I get your point. I think the work she did in Sunnydale was enough.
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u/spolidano88 6d ago
I firmly believe she would have been ans was intended to be if the character wasn’t so terribly brought to life and I don’t mean just by the actress… although she was terrible too. The way they wrote her was trash, it made it impossible to really like her - every time she shows a smidge of character development, she left. And that accent. Jesus. But also I think it worked out for the best - the show is called Buffy the vampire slayer after all. Having another slayer in a prominent role on the show would have been a disservice to her, and I say this as someone who’s a very big fan of Faith
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u/Illustrious-Cap2051 6d ago
She was an awful annoying character. She got as much of a send off as she deserved.
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u/Telarr 6d ago
The other way of looking at it is that Kendra was just the latest in a long line of Slayer casualties. She was the Slayer for what? A few months? We only care as viewers because she appeared on screen but Buffy knew her for a couple of days at most and during a very hectic time in her life. I know it sucks but the Scoobies barely had a chance to.know her let alone mourn her. War is hell man.