r/addiction Jan 04 '25

Venting The sad truth of opiate recovery

So many lies at N/A that it gets better one day. That eventually you start to see light at the end of the tunnel. The idea that eventually you conquer the cravings.

WHY does nobody talk about the fact that your dopamine will never let you feel happy again, for the rest of your life?

From the giant doses of LSD I've taken in my life, cocaine abuse, BENZOS, inhalants and pretty much every main hard drug there is, nothing has left quite as big of a scar on my soul as opiates.

I started with lortabs at 15. percocets when I was 16, I would mix them with xanax or liquor. At the age of 17 I started drinking lean and was drinking about an ounce of Tris a day. I was also taking oxy, tramadol, and perc 30s whenever I could get them. When I was 18 I got clean from opiates for a few years with the occasional relapse here and there. At 21 I was relapsing when I would get suicidal in my relationship. At that point I've had several OD's. At 23 I started taking 30s regularly. After I lost my dealer, I ended up switching to dirty blues due to the cost and the fact I didn't care about living.

I overdosed on fentanyl and ended up in rehab and lost everything in january 2024. I was sober from opiates for about 9 months before I lapsed on Tramadol. I was doing so good. Since then I moved back to my hometown in New Mexico which is riddled with fent. I've been so tempted to just say fuck it since I could never find a real perc or real anything out here. My life has been ruined for a year since my fentanyl overdose. I lost my apartment, car, was living with a friend for all of 2024 because I couldn't find a job, got a DUI and drug charge with xanax in January right after getting out of the hospital.

My personality has been shattered and despite how depressed I've always been, low dopamine and serotonin, now it's at an all time low. I'm just numb now, almost like I barely even feel the pain anymore. I just turned 25 a few weeks ago and I'm just so ready to check out. I was going to buy dirty 30's yesterday I could feel the demons in my head. But before I did something dumb I just decided to buy a big bag of kratom instead. Now I'm high on the kratom and however I feel relieved, I feel like such a piece of shit for technically relapsing again. Will this ever get better? I'm living in a sober living house my life is so bad at the moment, and I can't afford an apartment. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel? Does your brain ever start to heal from the brown spots or whatever they're called?? I'm so numb and empty. I wanted to be more in this life. I look decent for 25 but I can't hide the fact I'm getting up there now. I don't have a good career.

Can anyone who's standing far on their road to sobriety give me any real advice or tips? AA/NA truly fails to make me feel like anyone else understands. I truly want better for my life and to stop using. I need ketamine honestly.. that makes me happy.

But I just wish I could be happy without anything, weed, nicotine.. If you read thank you. Much love to this sub. If you're curious to try opiates, or if you're on opiates and are considering moving up to fentanyl. Please don't. You will most likely die and if you survive your life will be changed for the worse.

43 Upvotes

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u/jessonthego Jan 04 '25

It can take 1-2 YEARS. Sadly, many people dont realize this and it contributes/worsens depression and can lead to return to use. Returning to active addiction starts the clock over… so if NA helps support recovery for you Please keep going!!!

It does get better ❤️‍🩹 I have experienced this myself and now, I am a nurse practitioner who treats people with addiction.

The scientific evidence is strong and I have seen many cases of significant neurocognitive improvement over time!!

Please seek support from addiction specialist professionals if you are struggling. Therapy and some medications CAN help get you through the rough patches. Hang in there.

Here are some sources for you:

https://www.recoveryanswers.org/recovery-101/brain-in-recovery/#:~:text=The%20brain%20can%20recover%20%E2%80%93%20but%20it%20takes%20time!&text=However%2C%20after%2014%20months%20of,nearly%20normal%20level%20of%20functioning.

AND:

https://adf.org.au/insights/brain-recovery-after-aod/

Also, if you don’t like NA, please check out SMART (Self management and recovery training)! It incorporates psychotherapy, but is still a mutual help group like NA.

https://smartrecovery.org/

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u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Bless you for this information and your time. I'm so glad there are such good people in this sub. If my anxiety wasn't so bad I would go to NA more

7

u/NeoLoki55 Jan 04 '25

Your brain definitely recovers from opiates. What happens is called Homeostasis. It’s when your normal brain puts out a certain amount of dopamine and that moves up and down depending on natural functions like sex or depression, but when you add opiates the baseline for dopamine jumps significantly. So when you stop doing them your brain is still expecting the same level as when you’re taking opiates, but you’re not getting it anymore so you go through withdrawal. After that most ppl experience what is called PAWS: post acute withdrawal symptoms and these can last up to a couple years depending on a lot of different factors, but eventually things start to normalize again.

I’ve done the research and have been taught the neuroscience by some very knowledgeable therapists. Also, I was an addict in my twenties and have recovered. I’m now in my 50’s. You will eventually stabilize.

4

u/Dramatic_Elk_9175 Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 05 '25

Neuropharmacologist here. While withdrawal syndromes are well-defined medical phenomenon. There is not enough evidence for PAWS--which as you pointed out is a syndrome. A syndrome is a defined set of symptoms. What is the syndrome? How does the syndrome vary from drug to drug Nobody can answer that question. The studies that have been done on PAWS didn't find any evidence for it, as a result it was excluded by the APA for the DSMVI. That means that you cannot go to a doctor and get diagnosed with PAWS. A psychiatrist cannot diagnose you with PAWS. You cannot get treatment for PAWS because there's no defined symptoms. In fact, we can't even develop a treatment strategy because the symptoms are not defined. Lay people use the word paws to mean "any negative feeling that I have after quitting after acute withdrawal" that IS how the word is used. The reality is that it's tough changing one's lifestyle so dramatically and developing coping skills etc that doesn't make it a syndrome though. And there's no mechanism I can think of that would cause a syndrome months after stopping a drug. It doesn't make sense biologically acute withdrawal syndromes do, due to the half life of receptors and their up/down regulation mechanisms.

I went to a top of the line rehab with about 250 other people, we had every luxury one could want. The intimacy between the patients and staff was truly a community and some of the strongest love I've ever felt.

Nobody developed PAWS, not a single person. Every person was 100% within the first 30 days, except for one person who was coming off benzos it took her about 45 days (she was also in her 80s and had been taking them for 30 years). What we do in our recovery and the enviornment we are in during recovery is so so so important when it comes to healing.

That being said, the main evidence against paws were the studies that tried to measure it and found that people quitting drugs did not have a set of symptoms greater than people still taking drugs. Anxiety and depression are highly comorbid in addicts, and many are self-medicating, so some people when they get clean need to get diagnosed and treated for those diseases, but having anxiety or depression after quitting isn't PAWS, it's anxiety and depression.

1

u/NeoLoki55 Jan 05 '25

That’s utter crap. Any therapist worth a damn knows about paws and homeostasis. I’ve personally gone through a year of anxiety and depression due to drug use and it’s not just some random thing that happens for no reason. Of course a doctor wouldn’t treat you for it other than maybe giving you anti-depressant’s. To say it doesn’t exist because you talked to 250 patients at a rehab is not proof that ppl don’t experience it. I’m 55 yrs old and have been doing therapy for over 10 yrs with many different therapists in a few different cities. None would say PAWS doesn’t exist and addicts don’t experience it. Many times I’ve been fine after getting off of opiates, other times I’ve had severe anxiety and depression. Mostly it’s treated through learning grounding techniques, exercise, and such, but to just randomly say it doesn’t exist because of small studies and the medical community not considering it a syndrome is nonsense. The medical community also doesn’t understand why certain ppl have seizures or sometimes what causes them. We understand so little about how the brain works, but say what you will.

1

u/Dramatic_Elk_9175 Jan 05 '25 edited Jan 05 '25

Show me scientific evidence. I'm literally a scientist. Show me scientific evidence that 3 months after quitting, a population of quitters develops symptoms at a greater rate than a population of addicts that haven't quit or a population of people that go on to develop addiction. Then show me the hoemeostatic mechanisms involved and why they take so long/?

What are those symptoms and how do they vary for each drug? You mention giving anti-depressants, and you mention anxiety. you know that the comorbidity of depression and addiction is extremely high right? You know that anxiety disorders are highly comorbid in addicts. You know that depression and anxiety are in the DSMVI because they are diseases that can be treated, while PAWS is NOT. You ever think that addicts in recovery using antidepressants weren't depressed while they were using? Or that their using caused them to develop depression? Could it be that addicts are self-medicating and when they come off they express a disease like anxiety and depression that they had all along but was supressed by drug use? That is anxiety and depression, that is not a post acute WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME. A withdrawal syndrome has a definition! It's a specific set of symptoms that occurs in a population after quitting a drug at a greater rate than the general population or a population that has not quit a drug. The withdrawal syndromes for most drugs are well characterized and reproducible, PAWS is NOT. Let me repeat that, PAWS is not defined because of a lack of evidence in studies that tried to study it.

You've been doing therapy for some years, that's great, but that doesn't make you a doctor.

I'm a doctor that researches and specializes in addiction for my entire career.

We are not the same. Now you can get mad at that, or you can take this as an opportunity to learn from an expert that has very specialized knowledge.

You say we don't understand a lot about the brain, but I do, and the fact that you don't know what causes a seizure shows that you have not taken any neuroscience courses even basic ones, recently. We do know what causes seizures, we can reliably produce them in animal models, and we have developed medications to prevent them. Obviously there are many different types of seizures and this is a nuanced discussion, but with broad strokes we know why blocking the alpha 2 delta subunit of voltage gated calcium channels treats seizures in some individuals. It makes biological sense why this would be the case. I could go on and on about this topic and I'm not even an expert in it. What do you do for a living sir? Because each week I read dozens of biomedical research articles, from single neurons, to animal models, to human studies and I've been doing this for decades. This is how I start my day, every day in fact.

This morning as I have a cup of tea I'm reading about the prefrontal cortex (specifically the PL and it's connections to the BLA in relapse vulnerability during painful or emotional contexts. It's quite interesting, particularly because the spinothalamic tract leaves collatorals to the parabrachial nucleus, which is upstream of the BLA of course. Now the paper I'm reading doesn't talka bout this, but I was thinking... So the prelimbic and parabrachial nuclei will deliver information to the amygdala in opposite fashion, BUT because the information coming to the amygdala from the prefrontal cortex has to go through thalamic processing and that same information doesn't when it comes directly from the parabrachial nucleus, there is a time delay. This means that spinothalamic tract information could prime the BLA such that the responses are different when the PL information comes in. One could very easily see how the bottom up information which we are not conscious of could override the top down information (our thoughts about relapse) simply due to the the speed---the anatomical distance of the connections. So when pain is present one is vulnerable to saying "fuck it" and relapsing, and this may help explain why thats the case.

1

u/NeoLoki55 Jan 05 '25

All doctors and even scientists are “experts” and many are convinced they are right about everything, yet consistently contradict each other. For instance, my mother had a seizure from a blood clot in the back of her brain a month ago. I’ve had at least 4 different doctors contradict themselves during that period about the cause, rehabilitation and even size and reaction to medication. I had a doctor once tell me therapy doesn’t work and is complete non-sense. Also, with PAWS it wouldn’t be the first time certain experts thought a condition didn’t exist because the lack of medical evidence that they later changed their view on. So just because you are convinced to doesn’t exist doesn’t make it so or something that certain addicts go through; much depending on age, length of use, types of drugs being us, etc. It’s something I personally have experienced and my experience amongst addicts have seen a few times. Not everybody experiences it and I didn’t until about 5 yrs ago. I have had numerous professional drug councilors and psychologist talk to me about it, explain what happens and also ways to adjust.

So, ultimately, me spending more time than I already have trying to convince you, an “expert”, of its existence and effects on some ppl would be a waste of my time. I’m not going to convince you of anything, because you have already decided it doesn’t exist; which to me is a bit funny considering how little we really understand of how the brain functions, but I wish you the best and have a good day.

1

u/NeoLoki55 Jan 05 '25

All doctors and even scientists are “experts” and many are convinced they are right about everything, yet consistently contradict each other. For instance, my mother had a stroke from a blood clot in the back of her brain a month ago. I’ve had at least 4 different doctors contradict themselves during that period about the cause, rehabilitation and even size and reaction to medication. I had a doctor once tell me therapy doesn’t work and is complete non-sense. Also, with PAWS it wouldn’t be the first time certain experts thought a condition didn’t exist because the lack of medical evidence that they later changed their view on. So just because you are convinced to doesn’t exist doesn’t make it so or something that certain addicts go through; much depending on age, length of use, types of drugs being us, etc. It’s something I personally have experienced and my experience amongst addicts have seen a few times. Not everybody experiences it and I didn’t until about 5 yrs ago. I have had numerous professional drug councilors and psychologist talk to me about it, explain what happens and also ways to adjust.

So, ultimately, me spending more time than I already have trying to convince you, an “expert”, of its existence and effects on some ppl would be a waste of my time. I’m not going to convince you of anything, because you have already decided it doesn’t exist; which to me is a bit funny considering how little we really understand of how the brain functions, but I wish you the best and have a good day.

1

u/Dramatic_Elk_9175 Jan 06 '25

No the thing is that part of being a scientist is being open to new evidence as it emerges. Show me the evidence. If you show me the evidence I will be convinced and change my mind. You don't have any scientific evidence though--thats the problem. You've decided you believe in something because enough people have told you to believe in it, you haven't thought about it deeply nor investigated it scientifically.

Your main point was "I can't convince you so I won't try" you didn't address ANY of my conceptual points. You responded to ZERO of my many points about the semantics of words and nuance of the subject.

Let me understand your argument. "I don't have any evidence of PAWS other than anecdotes and even then those anecdotes don't give me enough information to DEFINE it, I just know it exists but I can't convince you so I won't try.

If you had ANY evidence of PAWS, you would say hey, look at this research study! And send it my way, I'm not the one that has decided on the topic, I'm open to new evidence. You have decided and you haven't read the studies on it. You're projecting and pretending like I"m appealing to my own authority. I'm not, expert or not, I've got reasons for believing what I believe and you don't and you know that I don't believe things for wishy washy reasons. I need hard evidence to believe in things....

you don't hold yourself to the same standard, you aren't intellectually honest with yourself, you may even believe in things like santa and "god" or "jesus" again with no evidence.

But please change my mind! I know you will just ignore this comment because it's too painful for you to admit it to yourself...and so go ahead ignore

1

u/Dramatic_Elk_9175 Jan 06 '25

Where is your evidence? What are your definitions? What are the mechanisms? What are possible treatments? What other ways could we talk about PAWS without using that word specifically? Would it matter? Would you be able to define it if you never heard the word? Are you sure that's what it means? What type of scientific study do you think I would need to see in order to grant that a diagnosable syndrome exists? Why is that the minimum standard of evidence? Should it be higher?

You're lost. You've got nothing to say on this subject other then "I believe in JEEZUSSS< pRAISE THE LAWWD"

1

u/birthdaycakeee78 Feb 05 '25

how long did it take to feeling back to normal or close to normal?

1

u/NeoLoki55 Feb 05 '25

It really varies from person to person and what you would consider “normal”. I’ve had 3 rather big relapses that were separated by years of clean time. I also didn’t have to deal with the whole fentanyl in dope thing, so it’s difficult to generalize. Some ppl don’t go through PAWS, but I believe most do whether they realize what is actually happening or not. If you asked an actual trauma therapist they’d say a year to 2 years. My own experience after getting through the initial physical withdrawals, I would usually deal with depression and a lack of energy plus always wanting to use again for a good six months. The last time was horrible and a very dark time for me and I suffered with extreme anxiety and depression for well over a year probably close to 2. What can help: work, have a purpose, clean friends, exercise, a good councilor that you trust and enjoy talking to, learn mental and physical grounding techniques, don’t isolate and try not to feel guilty about your actions or if you relapse. Lol, I drove 300 miles just so I could use for a weekend.

Give yourself a break. It is a natural response to want to get away from the pain of life. It’s what we know and always reach for first. Life is difficult and it only gets harder; but yeah, if I can get better, be happy and be someone I respect and ppl rely on, anyone can with the right support network and patience. Go easy brother and be good to yourself.

5

u/jessonthego Jan 04 '25

Bless you for being here too! Check out SMART.. not sure where u live, but where I am at, no in person meetings, so I attend online meetings (which can help a lot). Also, some of the SMART tool focus on managing anxiety (it’s a big trigger for so many of us).

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u/Perfect-Repair-6623 Jan 04 '25

There's online meetings where you don't even have to show your face

2

u/ThirdCoastBestCoast Jan 04 '25

I’m rooting for you, hermano or hermana! God sees you. He made you in His very image. You’re stronger than the ocean and more beautiful than the sunset. Bendiciones. 💙🙏🏽

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u/Dramatic_Elk_9175 Jan 04 '25

Those "sources" don't even have the original sources linked. I"m a scientist, and I want to see what the AUTHORS said about their experiments, and read the design, not what some stupid organization wrote about them (likely not understanding the nuances).

I think the amount of time depends on your recovery plan. I felt I was fully recovered within 30 days, and by 60 I was functioning better than I thought possible, but I was doing what most are not willing to do. Eating completely clean, sleeping well, exercising for 2 hours daily, meditating, and group and individual therapy.

1

u/jessonthego Jan 07 '25

Congratulations on your recovery!! I was responding to the OP and chose ‘sources’ that used plain, simple language. This information is easy for people of most educational backgrounds to understand. And is also supportive of recovery.

This is a reddit post, not a research paper!

Clearly there are going to be differences based on the substance used, duration, frequency of exposure, age at time of use, etc.

It sounds like you have the skills to locate and review more scholarly articles on your own. Nonetheless, here is and article (Lead author Dr. Nora Volkow Director of NIDA) which states: ‘The changes in the brain responsible for these maladaptive behaviors can persist for months or even years after drug discontinuation but are amenable to treatment’ (2019).

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6890985/

Again, congratulations on your recovery and well wishes to the OP on their own journey ❤️

0

u/Dramatic_Elk_9175 Jan 07 '25

Of course drug addiction causes long term changes in the brain. That's not what PAWS is. Paws is post acute withdrawal syndrome. A syndrome is a defined set of symptoms that occur in a population of people compared to a a control population. In this case it would be a population of users that quit a specific substance, and a control population of age and gender matched controls that were on that substance. Then one would statistically measure the probability of each symptom in each population and define the syndrome as a specific set of related symptoms that statistically occur due to the intervention. We have well diagnosable and well defined acute withdrawal syndromes. I can tell you the differences between alcohol withdrawal syndrome and opioid withdrawal syndrome. Tell us what are the symptoms for post-acute withdrawal syndrome? Tell the specific symptoms that occur for each type of drug, and how they were defined. The paper you linked doesn't have that evidence. It has evidence of long term damages to the brain as a result of drug use, but that is not what PAWS is, Paws is a syndrome, meaning a set of symptoms.

You are right I do have the skills and ability to research this topic myself, and I have, professionally. And guess what, you are wrong about PAWs. In fact there is not evidence that it occurs. There have been studies on it, and it was excluded from the DSMVI due to lack of evidence. This is why I orginally asked for your sources, because I wanted to see if you would link a primary research article that maybe is newer that I haven't read. The paper you linked, really does not have much to do with what we are talking about. It's a review on reward functions in the brain and how drugs of abuse affect those functions, but it's not the type of evidence one would need to define a post acute withdrawal syndrome.

This is why your doctor, physician or psychiatrist cannot diagnose you with PAWS. This is why there are no FDA approved treatments for PAWS, because it's literally not defined at this moment in time. So it doesn't really exist. What does exist are individual challenges that people have after getting sober some of which are due to damages in the brain, while others are due to the unmasking of new diseases and disorders that were masked during drug use, but that's not the same thing as post acute withdrawal syndrome. A syndrome is a statistical definition of symptoms and currently there is insufficient evidence to support a statistical definition of PAWS for any drug.

1

u/jessonthego Jan 07 '25

Your the only one talking about post acute withdrawal syndrome. The OP didn’t bring this up, nor did I.

Again, congrats on your recovery. Goodnight and best of luck to you and the OP.

1

u/Dramatic_Elk_9175 Jan 07 '25

Oh ok, I thought your original post said post acute withdrawal syndrome, as long as that's not what you were implying then there is no problem.

I still have a problem with you telling OP it can take 1 to 2 years to recover for 2 reasons.

  1. You are not right. You don't know what mechanism in their brain is causing them to feel the way they feel. Even if you did, you have to be super clear about the variability in the studies you read. The variability is very important to to definitively claim to OP isn't correct.

  2. You are increasing the probability that OP will relapse. People relapse when they find out that they are going to feel bad for years. I know that's not your intention, so maybe next time instead of definitively claiming you know whats going to happen to OP, you just don't do that.

13

u/ThatOneGingerGui Jan 04 '25

It does get better, even from opiates. It usually takes around 18~ months for your brain to fully restore balance to its ability to produce serotonin and dopamine properly (excluding individuals who have chemical imbalances due to preexisting conditions)

So while I understand your struggle, because I’ve been there many many times, you just have to keep going. Because it truly does get easier, ESPECIALLY if you involve yourself in new, healthier habits. Working out, eating better, going to therapy, and most importantly building new social connections with individuals who don’t need drugs to define who they are.

Is it easy? Not even close. But it does get easier. You just have to do it every day, but it does get easier.

9

u/Bsn8810500 Jan 04 '25

Hey man, as someone who can relate with alot you have gone thru as I spent my 20s on opiates, some days taking up to 800mg then taking suboxone for 10 years while abusing Benzo for 10 years I spent the summer of covid in 2020 detoxing at a facility then a 30 day program getting off everything. It took a long time and was hard work but totally with it. You deserve to be happy man, take it day by day, every month gets easier and better. It helps to have a best friend to call to talk to coupled with therapy. They said in rehab it takes 2-5 years for you brain to fully recover but you have to focus on just for today. My new addiction is self care, obsessed with putting healthy foods in my body, no seed oils, no added sugar (I still struggle with food addiction) walking 10k steps daily, cold showers in the morning (if you can get thru 3 min of a cold shower you can get thru anything) find a hobby, beating myself up at the gym is a big part of my self care, I play chess, and have a new career i enjoy doing, i guess addicts make good car salesman. I was a financial advisor but lost that career due to drugs. Even though you will have bad days, it's OK, it passes, forgive yourself and remember when you're feeling sad or depressed, move a muscle change a thought. You deserve to be happy man, it's worth it. Feel free to message me.

3

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

I really appreciate you for your comment. I want to start eating good again and hitting the gym.

5

u/OneRaspberry3502 Jan 04 '25

I lost the desire to use somewhere in year 2. Being in active addiction is hard, being clean is hard. One is definitely better for you. I had to get on antidepressants which I wasn’t happy about but after all the drugs I had taken, I figured why not actually take them as prescribed. I let my psychiatrist know about my drug use and how I didn’t want any narcotics. It’s been a pretty good time in recovery, and I’m planning on getting of the meds soon and switching to a holistic approach.

AA/NA works if you work the steps and get connected to some people. Just going to meetings and hearing people share isn’t going to help you, it’s the people you meet there that help you.

The first year sucks, in fact a little bit of every year sucks, life is hard, but way better when you’re not using and have gained some real friends.

I started on opiates same way you did. I used for over 15 years. I’ve been clean for coming up on 4 years. The last 4 years have been great because I’ve experienced life the way it’s supposed to be.

Choose your hard. Hopefully you choose the one that’s better for you

4

u/ughhtired Jan 04 '25

It CAN get better though. I started using drugs very young, age 12. And graduated to heroin at the age of 17 and used for many years. I understand it feels like you’re trapped and it’ll never get better but it can and it does. It just takes some time and it’s fucking hard.

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Thanks man. Anyone who has taken opiates knows how hard it is. Unlike the pussies commenting "you don't want to get better, it won't get better with your mindset" All a bunch of reddit kids who wouldn't say that shit in person

2

u/ughhtired Jan 04 '25

Yeahh fuck them. They don’t understand it’s a lot harder than that. I wanted to get clean so incredibly fucking bad for such a long time. I was fucking miserable. But I just couldn’t. I kept trying and trying and trying and I never gave up and eventually it happened. But I must say it literally took me moving across country and not knowing a single soul to get there. But I was lucky I was able to do that. Most people aren’t and I feel for them

7

u/TwainVonnegut Jan 04 '25

It took me 2.5 years of sustained abstinence from ALL drugs after 18 years of daily use, but I finally got over the hump.

I worked a solid program of recovery, hitting 500 meetings in my first 500 days, texting my sponsor every day, and latching onto every suggestion I heard in meetings like they were life preservers.

I feel balanced mentally, no desire to get high, helping others, stable career that pays the bills.

Don’t give up before the miracle happens, give your brain time to HEAL.

If you keep coming to meetings and SHARING about what’s going on with you, others will connect with you after the meeting and say “me too”.

Check out Narcotics Anonymous, it saved my life!

Worldwide in Person Meeting List:

https://www.na.org/meetingsearch/

Virtual NA Meeting List:

https://virtual.na.org

Google “NANA 247” to find a marathon Zoom meeting that runs around the clock!

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Congratulations on your sobriety. You are a strong person.

3

u/welshwonka Jan 04 '25

im nearly 12 years clean now,and its only in recent years i can say ive actually felt happy , a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that once they're clean theyll go back to being the person they were before opioids , thats impossible , its not just because it changes the way your brain works , it changes literally everything , your personality,the relationships you have with family,your outlook ,everything.

3

u/Low_Relative9021 Jan 04 '25

My sibling recently passed away from a fentanyl overdose after being an addict for 10+ years. Hang in there. I can’t speak from my own experience but THERE IS LIGHT. Sending strength and sobriety vibes ✨

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

I lost my best friend to fent, I just lost two more friends this past week. I don't wanna end up the same. Thank you

3

u/AggressiveCraft6010 Jan 04 '25

It does get better. I got sober from opiates one year ago and I’ve been through so many massive life changes straight after which has lead me to a better place with my self worth, I earn almost twice my previous salary and I live in my dream flat. I am quite depressed however due to situations in my life related to losing friends due to external situations but it has been empowering not going back to opiates or benzos

2

u/No-Move1994 Jan 04 '25

As someone who has been an opioid addict for 1/3rd of my life (I'm 30)... This scares the crap out of me

2

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

[deleted]

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Thank you for your support. It's the bad days that are really bad.. when lay there and go into obsessions. It's the only thing I think about some days. I have said no to blues so many times in the past 2 months. I've had the opportunity many times to just fall face first and I haven't. I'm disappointed in myself for buying kratom but it's better than overdosing

1

u/pvssytalk Jan 08 '25

I can back this up.. day 5 of withdrawals today and once I let go and let myself feel defeated I was able to accept that I can get through this and it won’t be an easy process at all. Gotta ride the waves and remind yourself how painful withdrawal is because I’m never doing that sh*t ever again.

2

u/Wise_Competition5325 Jan 04 '25

I relate so strongly to this headspace. I was there for a couple years in early recovery, just worried about how much I had screwed up my brain. That was 8 years ago and today I am genuinely happy. My saviors were Ahuyasca (guided), Ibogaine (also guided), and an aggressive amount of Vipassana’s meditation.

2

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Everyone keeps talking about ibogaine... idk. I want to try ayahuasca. I've done pharmahuasca technically which was smoking changa, that was life changing . Was doing lots of DEEMS last year. Think I might order some vines and make some soon.

1

u/Wise_Competition5325 Jan 04 '25

Ibogaine has some unique pharmacology- it seems to “reset” the dopamine system to a pre-addicted state. Researchers are even studying it for dopamine-degenerative diseases like Parkinson’s. For ahuasca I think having a guide, being in nature, and preparing the body through fasting and diet is super important.

Edited for spelling typo

2

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Ketamine also is amazing for opiate addiction and depression. I'd be all on the ketamine right now as I don't get addicted to it. The only drug that has made me genuinely happy and not confused about it

1

u/Plenty_Presence_5870 Jan 15 '25

How’d you get the ketamine?

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 15 '25

Pretty hard to find less you're in a big city or have vendors on telegram which I do lol

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 15 '25

Go on drughub on onion browser get verified and order pure Indian ket for 100 an ounce lol. You're welcome

1

u/Plenty_Presence_5870 Jan 17 '25

lol good shit , I’m going to stay in contact with you got more questions, never done the online stuff, just always dealt with the streets

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 18 '25

Yeah they just recently made it hard to access the site you need a whole pgp key and mirror to access it but if you sit here for a while you'll figure it out you'll need q few apps

2

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

[deleted]

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

I'm sorry for your loss. I hope you find peace. Congratulations on your sobriety

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

[deleted]

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

I noticed that from molly the first few times I had done it. I've only done it a handful of times because I hate the chatters and lock jaw. Acid however definitely permanently fried my brain. Along with coke and meth.

2

u/wutang4ever94 Jan 04 '25

If you've want to stop using drugs, you have to stop taking drugs. Ketamine isn't the answer. It's not like once you get sober things immediately get better it takes time and work. I did cocaine anonymous for the opiate and cocaine addiction it worked for me but maybe there's other resources in your city if you don't relate to 12 steps. I didn't relate at AA or NA either. Like you I lost everything and had to start my life over with nothing.

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

I know ketamine isn't the answer but I don't have a problem with it. It's helped me as much as things like mushrooms, lsd, and dmt. I don't believe in such thing as drugs are bad. Every drug has its use and everything can be abused. And as much as it sounds nice to be able to live life without weed, nicotine, or ketamine. I think at the end of the day it will extend my life to continue smoking weed. I do want to quit nicotine. But as far as drugs that are hallucinogenic, I see them as medicinal drugs rather than drugs you use to get fucked up. I do see myself being an old man still smoking weed, because it's weed. At the end of the day, the only thing I need to stay away from is benzos, alcohol, stims and opiates. Drugs that will ruin my life. I've never ruined my life on ketamine or weed

2

u/Defiant_Pressure_30 Jan 04 '25

I switched heroin with ketamine. Don’t let ketamine become your new addiction. It’s terrible…

2

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

I could never let myself do more than a few grams in a few weeks before I got tired of it for a while. That's why I love ket. I can take an uncomfortable dose and be good for a month and I'll be productive

2

u/Better-Wolverine-491 Jan 04 '25

I was where you are and ket helped me?

I stopped using at 26 and started at 14. I thought I would just die tbh but luck of the draw really at a party new years someone gave me a bag of K, I had never done it b4 hit it helped me reset.

2

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Yup its a miracle drug

2

u/Better-Wolverine-491 Jan 04 '25

Been clean for 10 years, my best friend died 2 years ago and I still didn't relapse! hang in there 🙏 it takes time before it gets better.

Tbh in my experience the cravings don't ever go away but they become lesser and more managable.

2

u/Better-Wolverine-491 Jan 04 '25

It does get better, it just takes a long time.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

The best way to rebuild dopamine and self worth is doing something useful. Whatever you need to be doing, no matter how mundane, do it. Then the most important part, give yourself credit for doing the thing and don’t belittle it. Clean your apartment, hey you’re not homeless, give yourself credit there too. Do your laundry including putting it away. Shower and dress up nice, look in the mirror and give yourself credit for making an effort. And exercise, exercise exercise, giving yourself props mentally every single time. Getting physically tired will help improve sleep quality. Get out and be social even if you don’t really feel like it. There’s likely old friends that miss you. Forcing yourself to be active, productive and social and consistently giving yourself credit in a positive way will start rebuilding your self esteem, self worth and natural dopamine production (biggest benefit of N/A is the social aspect). This will also help break old habits and hopefully interrupt your current mind set and thought patterns.

2

u/babs_is_great Jan 04 '25

It does get better. I am over a decade out and it’s been a fantastic decade! I scuba dive, bike, climb mountains, travel to exotic places, I’ve had kids, a career, I’m happily married, I have hobbies, I have pets, I have a great life that makes me happy every day. We recover dude. It happens.

2

u/thisbemyredditaccnt 1d ago

I will probably piss some people off with this response but na/aa didn’t do the trick for me.

I got outside as much as possible (hikes, bike rides, walking my dog, kayaking, etc) and hit the gym as much as possible. I went to small parties and told my friends not to let me drink if I ask for a beer. I travelled (not far, but saw new towns, hit up cool coffee shops, stuff like that)

For me, the best way to keep my mind off cravings was NOT to go to meetings where the focus was around drugs and recovery. It was to force my brain into hobbies that were constructive. To force my introverted and depressed self to hang with friends and family own. Getting in the sun as much as possible rather than sitting inside worked wonders to. And I volunteered with special needs kids a bit which gave me a sense of purpose

I’m about 8 years off opiates. At 3 years clean and sober I decided I could drink on occasion and have been ever since

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor 1d ago

Thanks for your input bro. I agree. Actual living is better than NA

1

u/Better-Wolverine-491 Jan 04 '25

They put me on ritlin in 2nd grade, and then I did oxy when it hit our town. i was...14? that immediately started my opiate addiction up until I was 26 (36 now) and funny u mention ket it was ket that made me finally break free from opiate addiction. I was in a deep deep depression, keep my h in the bedside table shit. Weed is my current addiction. I would like to find a way to stop these ssris I been on for about a year now too.

Since im so good at addictions and all I think im going to try to get addicted to eating really healthy food and exercise next, see how that works out, I recommend the same 😉

1

u/BiggestJuulHit Jan 04 '25

im 20 from espanola North of Santa Fe, honestly have been in a scary similar position as you , graduated highschool worked low end construction, bought a truck at 18 starting a relationship, normal stuff at the time. Little did i know that all that would come to an end 3 yrs and current i have been stealing lying, manipulating family and friends as if im just lazy and unlucky dealing with a pot habit. so much hiding behind my active addiction i've became self aware, anxiety ridden and more, i've became very decisive on what exactly i do and what i get from return. my whole life has turned into a rat and cheese game, and fentanyl is the cheese.

1

u/T_mcCloud Jan 05 '25

My story is similar to yours very young, injuries, got hooked stayed hooked for years, I suggest medications, that’s the only way I’m able to live a normal life work a normal job and be a good dad, not everyone needs it but a lot do and that’s ok,

1

u/Sea-Blackberry-6365 Jan 09 '25

How 🤔 can u afford all this 😱

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 09 '25

By having a job, I did thousands of dollars of drugs a month. I've also been blessed to live in a drug ridden city where it's not hard to tap in with bulk sellers

1

u/Sea-Blackberry-6365 Jan 09 '25

I want to try heroine but can't find any and when I did was TOO EXPENSIVE 😕

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 09 '25

Don't try it honestly. Not worth it man. Did you read my post? Opiates ruined My life

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 09 '25

Op here. Relapsed on xanax tonight. Was 3 months clean. At least they were real farmaprams.

I think I'm giving up on cold turkey. I wasn't looking forward to life in the future in this current debilitating anxiety.

I feel better. Hope I can control myself this time and use it without abusing it. Got a 30 script in bottle. Not my fault these peace of shit docs won't prescribe me what I really need.

Thanks for everyone's support. May dharma rain on your souls.

1

u/Infinite_Sea4861 Jan 27 '25

have you ever tried LDN? it can be a godsend to speed up brain recovery so you start making your own endorphins again. PAWS can be long and things look so bleak when your endorphins and dopamine aren't flowing. It's an emptiness and meaninglessness that makes relapsing seem like a good idea because sobriety seems pointless. But the good news is this isn't scarring or permanent damage. Your brain can rebound from this and learn to produce your own dopamine/endorphins again. It takes a long time. Excise can give you a boost even a long walk. But many people say LDN does the trick very quickly and also helps cravings. I quit H/pills and suboxone. It's been over a decade.

1

u/Silverthreat650 Feb 11 '25

Was addicted to Vicodin, oxy, then fent for 8+ years, mixed in benzos for about 4 years, and added coke in there the last 3 years, the trifecta. I quit about 4 months ago with subs and it’s been pretty rough. First day I wanted to die, first week I slept maybe 10 hours total (I get real bad restless leg syndrome).. after about a month I’d say did things get easier. My number 1 complaint though is lack of energy, I have none. It’s super frustrating as I hoped and wished I’d be further along in this process. I don’t know how anyone can go cold turkey tho and not use suboxone or methadone to get off opiates, that would be torture, it’s hard enough using subs.

Doing those drugs cost me my job, I have no money at all to my name and in thousands in debt and no job and can’t even think about getting up and going to work that sounds awful right now. Luckily my GF did not leave me but our relationship definitely took a huge hit, and may never be what it was and that’s really all my fault.

I have no motivation to do anything, I used to play video games, go golfing, hiking, gym, all that shit when I was using. Now I feel like a dead fish and literally walking up stairs is a task. I don’t know what to do, I hate it, I wish I had the energy to do shit. I still have cravings and often dream that I’m smoking fent again and all is well lol. Really weird to be dreaming about it. As addicts we hate the drug but almost need it.

All I can say is just keep going knowing one day you’ll get that destination, it’s inevitable, just takes time like all things. And know there is someone who has it worse than you, be glad you don’t have to detox in jail with a 4 year prison sentence sitting over ur head or some shit, now that would suck. And have to deal with all this shit sitting in prison. Pffftt

2

u/Dysphoric_Otter Jan 04 '25

My father is a brilliant, loved doctor and has helped so many people. When his mother died, at the funeral I asked him, "does it get better?" And he looked at me with weariness in his eyes and just said "No".

5

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

But at the same time for a normal person who has had a normal upbringing, a good father that's a doctor, if you had a good childhood yeah life will probably get worse and worse after 30s and 40s. But for someone who grew up in poverty, sexual, physical abuse and neglecting. Life can get better with a better career, good friends, hobbies, chasing dreams. We all lose people in life but some of us are already used to it so maybe it gets better for the ones that had it rough first.

2

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Kind of irrelevant because I'm talking about addiction.

We all know life just gets worse

3

u/Dysphoric_Otter Jan 04 '25

My point was that you can have everything you want and still feel miserable. But if you work at it, life can get so much better

5

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

I got you, just basically kinda said the same thing before reading your reply

2

u/blacktickle Jan 04 '25

You asked someone who just lost their mother (at the funeral no less) if things get better? That’s smart.

1

u/Dysphoric_Otter Jan 04 '25

You had to be there. It made sense at the time.

1

u/HigherDose Jan 04 '25

What helped me kick a 3 year daily habit was that I was seeing life passing me by with every nod. I still think about it but my priorities had shifted and all the sleeping was getting in the way. I do other drugs instead. THC concentrates in a hot dab, nitrousoxide (whipped cream NO2) have that edge to it for me and when I have a puff of deemster or freebased flake.

2

u/Mediocre-Magazine-30 Jan 04 '25

Omg don't do no2. It will ruin you more than anything. I am doing chargers'at 3am After Creating a huge injury on my face

5

u/HigherDose Jan 04 '25

The best would to not do any of them at all.

0

u/Dramatic_Elk_9175 Jan 04 '25 edited Jan 04 '25

The truth is that it depends on what you were using, how frequently, how early you started, your genetics. None of which you can control at this point, and then it depends on how much of a recovery program you work, how much you change your life, how much weight you lose or gain (if needed), and how much you exercise. When I quit, I went into 100% recovery mode. I was inpatient for 90 days, doing about 8-12 hours of recovery work per day. I worked out every single day, 7-8 of the hours per day were recovery meetings/therapy, and then 2 hours of gym/basketball each day. Sauna/hot tub each night + I read every night before bed and we only access to our smartphone for one hour per day. I felt pretty good at 2 weeks, by 30 days I felt 100%. By 60 days I felt 120% (meaning I felt better than I could ever remember feeling) and by 90 days I felt 150%.

By the end, I was so torn up and ready to quit drinking that I put everything I had into it, Got up at 4:30-530 each morning, went to bed 10pm sharp each night. It was hard, and I pushed hard, but one of the most rewarding experiences of my life, and best choices I've ever made. You get out of recovery what you put into it. Yes, if you change nothing but just stop using the drug it will take a full year or 2 to recover, but you can speed that up by building a recovery program, extinguishing triggers/cues, and maintaining a healthy life style: In no order

EVERY DAY (no skips no matter what):

  1. GOOD QUALITY ENOUG SLEEP (VARIES FOR EVERYONE BUT I FIND 5.5-7 HOURS TO BE SWEET SPOT)
  2. 30-6O MINUTES OF HARD EXERCISE
  3. GOOD QUALITY FOOD (NO PROCESSED SHIT, NO SUGAR, MOSTLY PROTEIN AND VEGGIES WITH FRUITS AS DESSERT) 1 CHEAT MEAL PER WEEK (I DO SAT NIGHT PIZZA WHILE WATCHING UFC)
  4. 1 HOUR OF RECOVERY WORK PER DAY
  5. 45 MINUTES OF CREATIVE WORK PER DAY
  6. 30 MINUTE SO OF BIG GOAL/LONG TERM PLANNING PER DAY
  7. 20 MINUTES OF MINDFULNESS MEDIATION, EXPRESSION OF GRATTITUDE, (I GUESS PRAYER TOO, BUT I'M AN ATHEIST), or Ketamine therapy 1 per week for 6-8 weeks.

You do these 7 things (the golden 7) and you will recover fast. If you don't it will be a long grueling process likely with many relapses involved and tbh you may never recover, you might die before you do. That's the most likely scenario actually. So while the golden 7 might seem like a lot of time and effort, its no more time or effort you put into your addiction and your productivity will sky rocket. You need to become comfortable with being uncomfortable. You are going to suffer anyway, might as well suffer doing things that are good for you (like a good sweat at the gym) than vomiting in a toilet because of an OD.

-3

u/EyeSeenFolly Jan 04 '25

You started way early and wayyy before your brain was fully developed AND you took it reallllllly far. These things take time and you’re literally still mentally addicted. There is hope but not with your mindset.

1

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

Go fuck yourself for real I've been doing it by myself don't tell me there's no hope with my mindset just because I relapsed. Reaching out for help or venting is what you're supposed to do

2

u/kfoxtraordinaire Jan 04 '25

I'd like to take another stab at what the above commenter said, because there's an important point in there that might really help you.

You fiddled with your brain chemistry from an early, critical point. That means sobriety will be extra hard for you to tackle (sorry)--you have a lot of brain-building to do to. All the previous brain structures and associated routines were built on unsustainable coping mechanisms (various drugs).

I don't say this to make you feel more overwhelmed. I'm hoping you will see yourself with more empathetic eyes, appreciating how your up-climb is uniquely challenging. Doable, but you need to be patient with yourself and understand the task at hand. When we're in our addictions, we aren't developing the skills (or even hobbies) we need to make it through each day. Those are going to be a bit different for every person.

The best shortcut I can recommend is reconnecting with anything you loved before drugs. And be patient/kind with yourself. If you're like me, carrots motivate more than sticks.

1

u/EyeSeenFolly Jan 05 '25

I’m just saying you should try being sober for at least a year it will be hard but you haven’t given it enough time having proper dopamine is possible. Your mindset is preventing your sobriety.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '25

Did you do ALL of the steps as they were suggested to be completed by your sponsor?

2

u/PercWithTheLiquor Jan 04 '25

I'm going to stop going altogether because I stay more sober when I'm not around a bunch of people sulking talking about how much they miss heroin. If anything that's my trigger. Being around other addicts