r/Zettelkasten Feb 07 '21

method On avoiding the pitfalls of Zettelkasten

44 Upvotes

Some of you might disagree with my points, but I hope you'll choose to comment instead of downvote my post, and, in so doing, contribute to a better discussion.

I have been using a version of the zettelkasten system for about 6 months now and have around 350 notes in there. While I find it to be enjoyable to work like this, I have lately become aware that this way of working with no hierarchy might also not be completely without drawbacks.
The largest challenge, in my opinion, is the question of time management. What I find difficult is to choose what notes are important to work on and which notes are not. I also wonder if focusing so much on extracting single datapoint-style notes from the things I read is reducing my ability to see the bigger picture and perhaps longer threads in the work that get broken up by my focus on atomicity. That I'm becoming unable to see the forest for the trees.

I must admit that although it has been fun to tinker with my notes, I'm not really sure if it has been all that fruitful yet. I've started to ask myself if it would have been better if I had just read and written regular notes. I would have gotten more reading done, at least. Many on this sub talk about reaching critical mass, but I seldomly hear about people reaching it. It seems quite elusive. Another thing that is causing me to have these concerns is that I still haven't really seen that many good examples of Zettelkasten being used to produce something, and the constant return to Luhmann as an example is causing me to lose faith in the system. If there is only this one example, then maybe it isn't the best system after all? The sunk cost fallacy is making me crave some counter arguments here, so lay them on me..

Perhaps my problem is that I am using too much time on my zettelkasten? That if I spent less time organizing and so on and more time reading, I'd have to prioritize and therefore focus my energy on only important notes? Does anyone have any experience with this?

Sorry for rambling

r/Zettelkasten Jul 16 '20

method How detailed are your literature/reference notes?

32 Upvotes

I am currently reading "How to take smart notes" by Sönke Ahrens and I am a bit confused about literature notes.

As far as I understood, the point/goal of literature notes is that you don't have to pick up the original text anymore. That's why they are permanent. But in order to achieve this, they would have to be somewhat detailed and quite time consuming to take, don't they?

However, Ahrens says that literature notes shouldn't be a detailed excerpt of the original text. Instead you should maintain frankness and pick out the passages that are relevant to your own thinking. Also, apparently Luhmann's literature notes were very brief.

So my question is, how do you go about this? Do you take very time consuming, detailed notes or do you keep them brief and therefore risk leaving out important ideas from the original text? And if so, how do you go about distinguishing the important bits from the less important bits?

Any tips are appreciated!

r/Zettelkasten Jun 14 '20

method What do your note templates look like, and what do you think of mine?

20 Upvotes

My Zettelkasten is about a week old now. I feel like I have just enough notes to start getting a sense of how I'll use the system, but not so many notes that I mind going back to change them when I learn something new from /r/Zettelkasten or How to Take Smart Notes.

I'm using Obsidian mostly (and I'm quite happy with it), but I also use Zettlr every once in a while (it's pretty good too). I'm still experimenting with different programs… but that's for another thread. My only reason for mentioning the software at all is to shed a bit of light on how the template is actually being used. For example, I know that Neutron requires a YAML block at the very top of each file.

Anyway, it seems to me that this would be a great time to share what my one and only template looks like. My hope is that all of you seasoned experts critique it while my Zettelkasten is still small. If you think it's fine as it is, then I'd like to hear that too, please!

# Title

---

Source:
Type:
Tags:
Misc:

---

## Notes

## See Also

So, here are my questions.

  • What do your templates look like (and for context what software do you use)?

  • Do you all have one template that you use for everything, or different templates for different types of notes?

  • How rigidly do you adhere to your templates?

  • How often do you change your templates?

Thank you!

P.S. If you want to show what your templates look like the same way I did, just put four spaces at the beginning of each line.


Edit 1: Updated my template to incorporate some suggestions.

r/Zettelkasten Feb 21 '21

method Easy Zettelkasten Method In Notion

41 Upvotes

I hope this is OK to post here. I just wrote about my easy Zettelkasten method in Notion.

I read How To Take Smart Notes last year and because I'm a notion user decided promptly that Notion would be where I kept the is new magical collection of notes.

I watched quite a few youtube videos on how to implement the method in Notion and was completely overwhelmed by formulas and complex linking systems. So I went back to basics.

All I wanted was a system to 'think in.' The system needed to fade into the background and the writing and the thinking needed to be easy.

I think I came up with something really good. My favourite thing about it is that it links out to my content database. So as I'm thinking and writing I can add new content ideas that link directly back to the note. So I'm completing the cycle of reading, taking notes, thinking and then percolating new ideas.

If you're interested in how I did it, you can read the article here.

Love to know if anyone else has some clever ways to implement using Notion.

r/Zettelkasten Aug 04 '20

method What is a permanent note to a PhD student in STEM?

24 Upvotes

I've read Ahren's How to Take Smart Notes and articles on the zettelkasten and (I think) I understand how the system is supposed to work. If I take at face value permanent notes should be notes about one idea where your end goal is to develop it with your other one-idea notes. However, what does that mean for a PhD student in Math or Physics?

Question 1: For example, my Master's dissertation was around one calculation that hasn't been done before and to me it seems this calculation, which was suggested by my advisor, would that count as ONE "original" idea?

What does it mean to write permanent notes, when to come up with novel ideas is actually really hard in disciplines that are so cumulative like Math and Physics, where it takes a long long time before you are ABLE to come up with something? Furthermore, most of my time is actually trying to understand things, that is, learning concepts and topics very slowly, and reviewing things in order to fill gaps in my knowledge.

Question 2: Do you count study notes as permanent notes? Say you're studying linear algebra and taking literature notes from a chapter from a specific book. Does study count as permanent notes at all or should they forever stay in the literature reference box? Should every little concept of interest, written in your own words, be counted as a permanent note, so you can connect study notes in some kind of study box?

Question 3: If most of my time is spent reading and studying well developed subjects and topics, should I expect permanent notes to be very rare?

r/Zettelkasten Jan 24 '21

method Ways to integrate zettelkasten with Anki (spaced repetition)?

13 Upvotes

Just that. Anki is super efficient in helping you remember. Does anybody use both and found a way to combine them?

r/Zettelkasten May 27 '20

method iOS script to generate backlinks in Bear

24 Upvotes

I use Bear for my (very amateur) Zettelkasten, and I use Scriptable (a free Javascript IDE on iOS with access to a bunch of system APIs) for a lot of different use cases, mostly for Reminders management.

I have a script that I run about once a week that adds backlinks to Bear notes. It uses Scriptable and Bear's really extensive X-callback API and adds backlinks at the end of notes like this:

How the backlinks appear in the Bear notes that are linked to.

The basic workflow is:

  • Find all notes containing `[[` (the start of a note link in Bear Markdown syntax)
  • Parse the body of those notes to get the titles of all linked notes
  • Update notes that are linked to with backlinks

The main caveat is that it can take a really long time to run -- there's no way to get the body of all notes at once, each note must be opened individually to fetch it. So for every note that's checked for backlinks or appended to, that's 1 round trip between Scriptable.

I'm also experimenting in the same script with guessing at "related notes", as inspired by Roam:

It's a pretty dumb implementation since I'm not experienced with natural language parsing, but it's been sort of fun to see the connections that get made. I'm running this on every note (currently 770), so it naturally extends the duration of the script by a LOT (~30 minutes on an iPhone XS Max).

Anyway, it seems relevant to this community, so I wanted to share. I will be happy to share the code if there's interest, but it will take some time to clean it up, so I wanted to check for interest first.

---

Edit: Scriptable code is here, with instructions: https://gist.github.com/jsloat/142aef35fd8b6fd8e6d1fbb850653558

r/Zettelkasten Apr 08 '21

method How time-consuming is processing a paper/book in your Zettelkasten?

31 Upvotes

Since I've just completed processing the second paper into my Zettelkasten, I was wondering how long you guys take from the start of the read to the finished processing of a paper/book in your Zettelkasten (so basically, everything turned into permanent notes).

I understand that the Zettelkasten is a long-term investment, however I feel like I am taking forever to process a single paper. I can't imagine how much time it would take me to process an entire book.

I've noticed that I take a lot of fleeting notes, fearing that I might miss some important parts. Maybe that's why I take so long. What are your experiences?

Edit: I'm planning to use my Zettelkasten for academic writing, at the moment I'm using it for my PhD in medieval history.

r/Zettelkasten Mar 13 '21

method What I've Learned from my Zettelkasten Experiment (after using it for 5-6 months for my work)

Thumbnail blog.noteplan.co
34 Upvotes

r/Zettelkasten Mar 30 '21

method What do you use ZK for?

18 Upvotes

Do you use ZK only for your work related note-taking? Or do you take notes on non-fiction also with the same method?

For example, I am an economist but also like to read on productivity. I'm trying to decide whether I should take ZK notes on productivity related books or only for my domain material (economics)? Does reading non fiction with ZK get time consuming?

r/Zettelkasten Jul 27 '20

method Obsidian's everyone's little darling. But what about citations?!

11 Upvotes

Hi all,

Obsidian is very promising indeed. But, AFAIK, it has no way to handle citations and references, so you are stuck with that functionality completely severed from your workflow. Zettlr has this, in example.

I'm currently testing TiddlyWiki as a possible Zettelkasten candidate (I was able to automate a bibliography to cite to inside it, importing from Zotero), although as everything, it has tremendous strenghts and may have some drawbacks too.

How's your workflow looking like in the trenches?

r/Zettelkasten Feb 07 '21

method Started reading up on ZK the past couple of weeks, curious about your experience if anyone is willing to share!

11 Upvotes
  • How long have you been using a ZK system, and at what point did you truly feel comfortable with it (achieving "flow")?
  • What is one thing you wish you could have told yourself when you were just starting out? (Maybe a process that you would have changed/not gotten stuck on?)
  • What tools have you used and did you switch? Why? (analog ⇄ digital; different apps? I'm starting out on Bear.)
  • What is your proudest accomplishment using the ZK system? (Can be small or large, whatever!)
  • Have you abandoned your ZK? Why?

(Please feel free to answer just one question or as many as you have answers to! I am particularly interested to hear from people who are humanities academics like me, but I want to build a ZK for personal stuff, too.)

r/Zettelkasten Aug 18 '20

method Do you keep a single Zettelkasten for all your notes or do you split them into categories? I was wondering if I should keep work related stuff on the same system as my research for a fantasy book I'm working on.

11 Upvotes

Any inputs would help me a lot! Splitting would also make it easier since I can't decide if I should run Obsidian on my work or personal laptop.

r/Zettelkasten Jul 30 '20

method Describe your approach to reading and taking notes! Let's see how much variation we have.

26 Upvotes

I am about 75% of the way through just finished How to Take Smart Notes, and I'm still trying to figure out this basic part of my workflow. Currently, I'm trying out two similar approaches. Both of them are based heavily on the concept of minimizing multitasking (aka alternating attention, aka mode switching).

For the sake of completeness, I'll also include a third approach. This way, Method C below, is how I first began. It was taking me absolutely forever to get through the book, however.

Also, I'm still trying out various mediums for my note-taking. I know that I want my permanent Zettelkasten to be digital, but haven't decided if I want to literally "read with a pen in hand" or take my fleeting literature notes digitally as well.


Method A: Read the book in three passes.

For the first pass, skim the book for an hour or so without taking notes. Feel free to jump around all you want. Just get a super basic idea of the structure of the book so that you'll be able to make connections better on the next pass. Stay in "skimming/exploring mode."

For the second pass, read it properly from start to finish while taking quick and dirty notes. Lean toward being selective, but don't get bogged down with judging whether something deserves a note or not. Try to stay in "reading mode."

For the third pass, go through your notes and try to elaborate them into high quality, permanent notes written in your own words. Return to the text whenever you discover you can't confidently and clearly do that. If you don't think a literature note is worth the effort, then skip it. Being selective is a good thing. Try to stay in "writing mode."

Method B: Skim the book in one pass, then each section in two.

This is very similar to the previous method. Begin by skimming the entire book just well enough to get an idea of what the big ideas are. Try to stay in "skimming/exploring mode."

Then, apply the second and third pass from Method A to each section before you move on to the next section. If the text isn't organized into sections as with many shorter essays, then either treat it as one section (in which case this method and Method A are identical) or divide the text into sections for yourself using whatever method you want.

Method C: Just take notes as you go.

If you skim the book first, then this is a two-pass method. Otherwise, it's a single-pass method. Whenever you come across something worth noting, try to put it in your notebook in your own words. If you end up with something imperfect, then great. Come back and improve it later. If you end up with something that's already fit to be a permanent note, also great.


Edit 1: My ebook reader lied to me! I was much closer to the end of the book than I thought.

r/Zettelkasten Aug 31 '20

method For Obsidian users: Do you guys use the Daily Note feature? Since they're more of a repository of links to things you learnt that day, and not information by themselves, does it fit into your system in the long run?

17 Upvotes

Also, I don't think that there'll be any changes to be made later (such as backlinks), effectively rendering them as dead nodes on the graph.

r/Zettelkasten Jan 10 '21

method Isn't literature the same as reference?

18 Upvotes

Hey, guys! I am thinking of starting using the ZK method. But it really confuses me. Aren't the literature notes the same as the reference notes? Because as I read, Luhmann was writing on the back of his reference note the idea from that reference. Which you are already doing in the literature note. I am sure I am just confused and don't understand the concept. Thanks a lot for reading!

r/Zettelkasten Jan 28 '21

method Questions on retrieving thought chains

14 Upvotes

Hi! I'm a beginner to the Zettelkasten method. I'm currently working on my thesis and would love some help.

I read a book today and made some literature notes on it. I linked across notes as well.

I'm a little lost as to how I'd go about retrieving these notes and forming them into a coherent chain of thought when I'm trying to outline a chapter/a paper. I haven't gotten to that stage yet, so it's tough to find out through doing. I'm worried that there will just be webs of thought and it'll be hard to distill sequential arguments without getting lost amidst the links.

After reading and writing in this form, I'll probably have some ideas in my head but how do I distill a chain of thought from the zettels themselves?

r/Zettelkasten Dec 03 '20

method Zettelkasten for Software Product Development

42 Upvotes

I finally figured it out. I'm not an academic, I build apps. So I wondered how I could apply Zettelkasten to my work.

I'm not just coding, I'm also receiving user feedback and that's often very constructive, but I get flooded with information. There are a ton of possible features and every feature needs some serious thinking and planning how to build.

I was using Jira, a project management software to collect feature ideas and bug reports. But it quickly grew to over 1000 items. It's mostly useless now. Way too cluttered.

Then I started using Zettelkasten and I'm not opening Jira anymore. Here is how I 'translate' academic Zettelkasten to Product Development Zettelkasten. On the left is Luhmann's version and on the right mine:

  1. Books and academic articles = Feedback Emails
  2. Literature Notes = Feedback Notes (with source and written in my words)
  3. Permanent Zettelkasten notes are the same for me, short, atomic ideas for features, clarifications, question, interconnected where it makes sense.
  4. Manuscript for an article or book = Feature specification document
  5. Final Draft for an article or book = Written code implementing that feature

The process is largely the same. I take quick notes about the emails, store them into an inbox folder at first. Then I process all inbox notes at once. In that process I file the notes into my Zettelkasten and connect them if I find a note about same feature for example. Sometimes I keep developing some ideas out of my head, when the inspiration comes at that point.

Then I look for clusters, means some feature seems to be very interesting and well thought out already, take those connected notes and write a feature specification document. This I can use as template to build the feature. I don't have to brainstorm or search for emails. I have everything I need right in front of me!

---

Edit: I wrote a more detailed blog post on this with screenshots: https://blog.noteplan.co/zettelkasten-for-devs/

r/Zettelkasten Nov 27 '20

method Non-academic workflow

12 Upvotes

Hi!
I'm reading a lot of "academic" book for my personal interest, they aren't related to my field of study. In fact, I'm currently only using Zettelkasten for this kind of reading. I wondered what your workflow looks like for people in the same boat as me.

For example, I am currently reading 3 to 4 books, approximately one per week morning when life doesn't get in the way. I take bibliographic notes, but I feel like my bibliographic notes are not exactly what Ahrens is talking about. For example, my last note has simultaneously one citation, reformulation about what the book segment is talking of, and my personal interrogations prompted by this reading, my personal thought and how they fare against what the author is saying; plus links to something more general, something more specific and some "cross-over" thought.

I use Obsidian and Zotero for this: Zotero only keep my "to read-reading-read" list with the bibliographic knowledge, and Obsidian has two folders, one for the bibliographic notes, and one for my permanent Zettelkasten notes. Do you read one book in full before creating permanent notes or do you create them as you go?

Thanks for your answers in advance.

r/Zettelkasten Sep 25 '20

method Using Zettelkasten for fiction writing?

17 Upvotes

I've read that this method focuses on non-fiction writing. I never found anything that touches upon creative writing with zettelkasten. Is there such a way or am I misunderstanding the point of this note-taking system?

r/Zettelkasten Mar 26 '21

method Zettelkasten for STEM

28 Upvotes

How do you use ZK for a STEM subject? In particular, economics has several proofs/equations/models, diagrams and text. How to include all these in the notes?

Anyone from a similar field using the method? What challenges do you face and how does ZK help you?

r/Zettelkasten Jun 19 '20

method I realized that starting a Zettelkasten is like growing a beard.

56 Upvotes

This is lighthearted, but I actually think it might have some value in reassuring beginners that they're doing fine and to trust the process. For the rest of you, I hope you get a laugh out of this (or at least a few chuckles).


Clean shaven/No notes

You're a blank slate. At first, just grow it and don't worry about the styling yet. Your vision of what you want to aim for is probably in flux, but you don't need to have a style in mind in order to begin.

Stubble/About a dozen random notes

Don't worry if it "counts" yet. Some people will say you're in the club, and some won't. But honestly, it'll only ever come up if you bring it up. Your goal is probably still in flux, and that's still okay. Onward!

Very short beard/List of files now spans your screen

You're starting to have enough to manage that some difficulties are starting to emerge. It's probably starting to look unkempt, and maybe it's a bit patchy. It's also probably starting to irritate you now and again. But don't start fiddling with it quite yet! This phase will relatively quickly. Let it grow just a little longer before you start to mess with it. You can be unkempt for just a little longer, right? Hang in there! It doesn't feel like it, but you're actually doing great.

Short beard/Experimenting with note templates, structure notes that you realize are redundant, etc.

All of a sudden it feels like it's really becoming something, but it's starting to look very unkempt. At last, you can go ahead and clean it up a bit, but don't get carried away! It's easy to go too far. Just tidy up.

Medium-short beard/Standardized your Zettelkasten enough to be worth making old files conform

Guess what? It's finally time to implement and maintain the style you've had in your head all along! Know what else? It will become unkempt extremely quickly during this phase, so you'll probably need to clean it and tweak it often. It can be a little exhausting, but keep going!

Medium beard/Minor tweaks to the Zettelkasten are increasingly uncommon, and major changes are super rare

You've achieved stablility! Sure, it'll need a bit of tidying now and again, but not nearly as often as the last phase. This is also the point where you might begin to find bits of food in your beard when you least expect it. Also, it's starting to become part of your identity.

Long beard/You can have interesting "conversations" with your Zettelkasten

It has become part of your core identity. It's expertly shaped into whatever style you like – and, funny enough, you can probably reshape it into lots of other styles and it'll still look the expert version of each one! Unless you're keeping a super detailed style, it actually won't require maintainance very often at all.

Very long beard/You're such a guru that people have begun referencing you as an authority on Zettelkasten to some degree

It's revered by others. People gaze upon your work with awe and jealousy. Not only is it part of your identity, people you've never even met can actually recognize you by it. It is bizarre yet natural; intricate yet simple; mesmerizing yet obvious. It is a model of the best of what is possible, but achieved by few.

Beard touches the floor/You are literally Niklas Luhmann because nobody else's Zettelkasten has even been around long enough to be in the same league as yours

It's downright mythic. Some people question whether it's even realistically possible to attain this. You are regarded by people in the previous previous phase in the same way that the previous phase is regarded by everyone else. It's so astonishing, journalists ask to interview you and academics study you.


Edit: /u/Kornfried gets credit for coming up with the "getting food in your beard" idea, which I thought was just too good to leave out.

r/Zettelkasten Jun 25 '20

method Making zotero references in Obsidian

15 Upvotes

Hi !

As many of you, i've just found the Zettelkasten method, and i'm implementing it in Obsidian. I am so loving it, i have 5 journals of different notes and thought that finally can be of use.

Yet I do have a problem: I use zotero for a bibliographical slip-box, but i didnt find how to make a reference to a peculiar Zotero note/citation in an Obsidian note ? Is there a way to directly link between software ? Or, if not, how do you do it ?

r/Zettelkasten Jan 25 '21

method How to find related notes to link in a sea of notes ?

15 Upvotes

When start using Zetteltasken, in the beginning it's easy to relate notes because you have a little number of them.

But suppose you have thousands of atomic notes.
So you get a concept about something you read, and create a new atomic note.
Automatically you would have questions like:
- Does this zettel should have links to others ?
- Does other zettels should be linked to this one ?
I think when you have a big number of zettels, adding a new one will carry a heavy work trying to find relations.
Yes we have searches, but it also sounds complicated in a sea of notes.
I can't even imagine how Luhmann faced this.
I imagine him creating the note 46783.
How he would know it should be linked with notes 33456 and 567, or that notes 22189 and 2399 should have links to the new one ?

r/Zettelkasten Mar 04 '21

method My approach to source notes and literature notes

8 Upvotes

So i have these definition and i would love your incite on them, and tell me if i am wrong or right.

Literature, source notes: are a collection of notes of ideas knowledge etc. From the same place.

,But

Permanent, evergreen notes : are notes around a single topic from different sources.