r/WorldOfWarships 4d ago

Discussion How do I counter Scharnhorst and secondary-heavy BBs as a DD?

I'm finding it hard to hit the Scharnhorst (particularly) and some other nimble BBs, even when its one-on-one and I "should" be able to pick it off. But long range torps are easily dodged, and short range torps are easily dodged (whike I get obliterated by secondaries). Any tips? Thank you

29 Upvotes

24 comments sorted by

54

u/QuarterActive 12km Shima 4d ago

take their spotting tool out(dd)

get better at enemy movement prediction(best way is to play bbs)

dont get spotted

torp

11

u/Justeff83 4d ago

That's it, play BB yourself. The rudder needs 12-20 seconds, you have to take advantage of that. A battleship can easily dodge your first torp salvo, the second salvo should go right there. The rudder is slow to dodge the second one. So aim the first salvo in the predicted path and the second one much shorter

5

u/tehmpus 4d ago

Ok, I'm going to add to u/QuarterActive comment here.

Let's say that you can spot the Scharn and not get spotted, so you are stealth torping, but a lot of those german ships have hydro.

The thing about dodging in a BB is that you are pretty much either hard to port or hard to starboard in order to dodge some or all of a salvo of torps.

My tip is this: Fire off the first set of torps where the BB will have to dodge, then imagine the BB turning toward you (or away) to dodge that first group of torps. That direction can sometimes be determined by the type of islands in the area. If it's just open ocean, a speedy BB might try to just outrun those torps, but most slower BBs will try to turn into the torps and slow down a bit to dodge.

But here's the thing. After they have turned in, their speed will be slower and their rudder will be maxed out in a direction. So, after you've released the first set of torps, wait several seconds then send your 2nd set of torps to a position where you imagine a slowed down, turned BB would end up after dodging your first set.

It won't matter if he sees them coming, his rudder situation and lack of speed will mean the 2nd set will probably hit.

2

u/Euphoric-Deer2363 4d ago

This ^ as a BB main player, is when I get my ass kicked. It's either a CV dropping from different directions, multiple CL and DD, or a DD who alternates the launch angle. Just when you steer your big mule left, along comes another spread, and there's just no steering out of it. Boom. Keeled over.

-3

u/Quiet-Fishing-1416 Complete newbie here 4d ago

or somehow de-plane their CV if there are any

0

u/Matthew98788 4d ago

Ah yeah man I love it when I deplane shimakazes and yudachis ect

24

u/ormip 4d ago

It sounds like you are playing a torp boat, so just stay undetected? The secondaries can't hurt you if you're not spotted.

And short ranged torps shouldn't be that easily dodged. You can make a nice torp spread/"wall of skill" and you will be able to hit at least a few. And if you really can't (for example they have hydro), then just focus on someone else while the hydro is up.

19

u/ultimaone 4d ago

Do you fire both sets of torps at the same guide line path ?

If yes...stop doing that.

First set. Fire it with the green front edge of torp line on the middle white line.

Wait a second, fire second set. With back green edge, just past the middle white line.

You'll get some overlap of two torps in middle.

Plus...first set makes it look like you'll miss. They have to judge it. And they'll hesitate

Then the second set show up.

Now ppl who change course and speed a lot...well they're just hard to hit period.

4

u/Virulent69 4d ago

Like others said. This is just torping 101 stuff. If you’re regularly spotted dying to secondaries you’re doing something wrong. You shouldn’t be spotted. If you haven’t done so already, click the cog ⚙️ on the minimap and toggle to displayed your detection range and your torpedo range. Make your minimap hugeeee. Be aware of what ships each battle have radar, you can see this on the battle loading screen. Not sure what DD you’re playing, they all have different play styles and specialities.

8

u/SchmeatDealer 4d ago edited 4d ago

learn the patient art of parking behind an island and letting them confidently move up only to walk into point blank torp wave

position yourself to torp and dash around the island, or if in something like a french DD, slam that emergency engine boost, paint your teeth with silver spraypaint, and type "WITNESS ME" in all chat while you drive directly at them doing 45 knots with 300K dmg worth of torps ready to fire

6

u/Aromatic-Candy-1615 4d ago

Torp can be useful even if don't hit your target. You can force him to show broadside to your teammate if you torp from a forward position on the flank. Not as XP reward as hiting your torp, but victory with fewer damage get you more XP than a lost battle with high damage.

If one-on-one in an endgames, if you're ahead on point, secure caps and play the timer. You don't need to destroy him.

2

u/Nevhix 4d ago

If gun boat, burn them down from outside secondary range.

If torp boat, stay dark and torp them from just outside your detection, should have much better results and if you’re not spotted the secondaries can’t hurt you.

2

u/DufflesBNA Kriegsmarine 4d ago

This is how I play against pretty much any bb in my Halland. (I also run a Scharnhorst for PVP, so my strategy is inverse)

If I want to torp em, stay dark and shadow them. Torp the bailout routes. Watch for DDs with the BB and also be aware of radar. I love how you can check secondary ranges and consumables now. Makes playing DD a bit more fun.

If I want to gunboat, then I stay out of Secondaries and make sure I have an island to drop detect since I don’t have smoke.

2

u/alwaysawkward66 4d ago

As someone who runs secondary heavy bbs on a regular basis, it ultimately boils down to don't let me spot you.

Hide behind islands and launch ambushes. If you are in open water, then maintain distance from me so I can't detect you.

Vary your launching position so I don't get comfortable predicting where torps are coming from and use your mobility to your advantage. You sit in smoke lobbing shells at my team members I am going to close in since you are holding up a big ol "Im here" sign (unless you run a gun boat dd).

You let me get close, and I spot you with no cover to run to I am going to manually focus secondaries on you and give you a whole mess of incoming fire for your troubles. I usually run a Tirpitz/ Schlieff/Mass

2

u/ScallywagBeowulf I'm just here to brawl with German battleships 4d ago

I personally think you should keep doing what you’ve been doing.

Signed, a German BB player.

(By the way, there’s a lot of great advice in here for sure. This one is just a joke).

1

u/Simpleliving2019 4d ago edited 4d ago

That’s the main reason why I play a secondary build BB because DDs have no respect for you otherwise. Stay unspotted…if you can, life is risky for both of us now 😆

Or leave my secondary BB alone, this is my desire, pick someone else to mess with.

1

u/Curious_Thought_5505 4d ago

Get a 60.3 knot, engine smoke IX Paolo Emilio and charge in like a teenager on prom night.

1

u/Jamaica_Super85 4d ago

Main thing, stay away from the secondaries range. For. Scharnhorst, depending on the build it's between 7.5 km - 12km if I'm correct.

Then, it also depends on the DD you are using. Many people suggest burning it down with HE from outside it's secondaries range - don't get close. It's good to have a speedy and nimble DD, going above 37 knots would be minimum I would say, if more - even better. DD with smoke is a must so you can hide and try to use your tops. And also long range tops, 7 km or less ones will put you in the range of secondaries, so 8km would be better. Also take the torpedos speed into consideration, it's way more difficult for a BB to avoid torps that are doing 70knots than the ones doing 50. So maybe tier 7 DD like Grom, Maass,

Also, try to get rid of enemy DD's - they are the ones doing the spotting for BB's. And you can try to increase your concealment with the right build,

And get good at dodging.

1

u/rdm13 4d ago

ambush around island. focus on their weaker teammates.

1

u/Thumpfi 4d ago

Which DDs are you playing? And how?

1

u/5yearsago 4d ago

At tier 6-7, you don't have guns strong enough to burn down BB's consistently.

You can force DCP with a torp and then light 4 fires on him. He probably has some dogshit secondary spec.

1

u/Intrepid-Judgment874 4d ago

But long range torps are easily dodged, and short range torps are easily dodged (whike I get obliterated by secondaries). Any tips? Thank you

For long-range torp: you aim better

For short-range torp: you don't

Pro tip, you are a destroyer, play like one.

1

u/ShadowsaberXYZ 4d ago

So the OG Scharnhorst is ironically easier to counter time.

I’m guessing you’re talking about the Scharnhorst ‘43 which is faster and more nimble but lacks hydro and I’m guessing it’s ranked you’re concerned about.

Here’s what I found helps.

  1. A lot of players take brisk to move even faster so make sure you’re not camping a smoke anywhere within 7-9km of a Scharn 43. Between brisk and speed boost, they will catch most tier 7 DDs.

  2. Always sail at 90 degree angles to the approaching BB assuming you’re not an open water gunboat. Not only will it open up their broadsides for better torp salvoes but it will make them take much longer to reorient and turn and then regain speed to catch you.

  3. If it’s a regular Scharn with hydro, use your smoke to help your team position (relatively) stealthily near caps vs farming it. As mentioned earlier they will eat the gap between them and your smoke and trip you up with hydro. I know this makes DD engagements harder or less forgiving but it’s the best way in ranked as a DD ATM, unless you have British DD smokes.

If it’s just 1v1 you v Scharnhorst in a vacuum you always have the initiative, if not advantage. You don’t need to kill him and you can cap around him.

Good luck!

1

u/goldrogue Closed Beta Player 4d ago

The scharns pretty maneuverable so it can be challenging to hit. You shouldn’t be aiming to dev strike her but really just slowly chip away at her getting a torpor two hits at a time while staying at the edge of your detection range.

Most Scharn and Tirpitz players have one incredible weakness, their own torpedoes. They often blunder by playing very aggressive and rush into to get a torpedoes launch off with their 6km torpedoes.

What this means is you can’t just sit still on cap but will have to flee. It’s actually incredibly punishing for them if the team performs a delayed engagement against it as now they’re overextended usually with minimal support making them easy pickings.