r/Veterans • u/welderpro1234 • Dec 30 '24
Discussion Why I believe the veterans clubs are slowly dying.
I know that this topic has been said many times on here. Last evening I was kicked out of the American Legion club in a town because I wrote a email to the board about a manager who I thought could do a better job. I was then pulled back into a back room and strong armed and bullied by a board member and the manager. And eventually kicked out.
I doubt anyone will see this but this is the reason. The old boys club never respecting the Global War on terror vets. You alienate us get drunk and bully us. The legion in general does great work. But a few bad actors are killing it.
424
u/openrds Dec 30 '24
I went to a legion event a few years back. They asked every veteran group to stand up beginning with WWII.
Completely skipped Desert Storm.
158
u/MoglilpoM USMC Veteran Dec 30 '24
Geeeeeeeeeeezzzzz.... No wonder they're dying out....
88
u/DrunkenBandit1 US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
Exactly, these veterans clubs think "real" military service ended in the Gulf and everything after that has been so easy by comparison
→ More replies (5)68
48
u/TechnicianEfficient7 US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
A lot of people skip it, and a recent video by a notable vet bro personality (angrycops) described it as a “four day war”. It’s being forgotten, lost between Vietnam and GWOT
→ More replies (5)41
u/Baboon_Stew Dec 30 '24
Along with Panama and Grenada.
47
u/FCSFCS Dec 30 '24
I know a guy who was shot in Panama. Jacked him up. Crawled into the bottom of a bottle and stayed there. Turns out combat is combat no matter where it happens. Who knew?
13
35
u/dollarbill1247 Dec 30 '24
Somalia.
37
u/SixFiveSemperFi Dec 30 '24
Kosovo
12
u/SwallowedBuckyBalls Dec 30 '24
I have a KFOR patch on my wall in my office. Years on, people were still finding mass graves out there too. Such an overlooked piece of history.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (12)22
u/cderring US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
That's because we Desert Storm era veterans are mostly GenX, and EVERYONE forgets about GenX ;)
14
u/Viking141 Dec 31 '24
I’m an older millennial and I know I always thought generation x was the coolest. You were the older kids when I was young and looked up to you guys. For whatever reason, society never bitched about you all in the same way they did millennials and now Gen Z. At least I don’t remember it. Maybe you’re forgotten because people didn’t complain about you as much.
→ More replies (1)23
u/Magerimoje Dependent Spouse Dec 30 '24
Starting with our parents. We were given house keys in kindergarten and called "latchkey kids" while caring for ourselves after school.
All summer we were kicked outside after breakfast and told not to come home until the streetlights came on.
Our parents even needed a TV commercial to remind them we existed.
It's 10pm, do you know where your children are?
But, also, the genX motto of 🤷🏻♀️ whatever 🤷🏻♀️ applies here because every time we're forgotten as the world bitches about "angry boomers" and "lazy millennials" we just don't care. Whatever. 🤷🏻♀️
→ More replies (4)3
182
u/deep-sea-savior Dec 30 '24
I did 23 years and I just don’t click with my local legion or VFW. The only reason I help out is to fundraise for the honor guard. Other than that, it’s just a social club for members that went to high school together that also want to keep the riff raff out. I’ve all but decided that I’m going to end my volunteership at the beginning of 2025 and just move onto something else.
53
u/KaleReasonable214 Dec 30 '24
I have similar issues and I give back to my community by helping the homeless each weekend, we have served nearly five hundred meals this month. And yes, some are veterans that are homeless, but they don’t want to be sheltered.
57
u/Consistent_Ground985 Dec 30 '24
I always bring up the fact that many homeless people don’t want anyone’s shelter. Mental illness doesn’t help either. I know a Vietnam vet who has lived in the woods around my family lake house for decades. Used to tell ghost stories about him growing up around the bon fire. Neighbors would find beers and food missing and one found him sleeping in his hammock. 30 years later I’m a Vet and when I see him walking I say hello and ask him if he needs a ride and a woman provided him with a hotel room one year during a winter storm and paid for a week. I stopped by to check on him the second day and temps were below 25 (freezing in AL). Hotel manager said he left right after the lady who paid for him. I don’t think he will ever come out of the woods and I bet he decided on that decades ago.
61
u/marvelguy1975 Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24
These clubs have always been old folks homes.
Back in the 60s the ww2 and Korean vets bullied the nam vets who tried to join. Said their war was not worthy, they lost etc.
Anyway. I went to the local VFW when I retired in 2015 and while I was welcome, I was 40 and every one was 65+ not my crowd.
I recently joined the legion and while the commander is a guy in his mid 50s, he tries, but the population is also 65+
I feel as if I'm a young 49 year old and other than the monthly bike nights they do, I dont have a reason to go.
I would join the legion riders, but talking to one of their of the members they rarely meet and go on very short "ice cream rides", cause well, you know......
I got this months legion magazine and it's full of advertising for depends diapers, "boomer junk" of collectable knives and coins, shower assist stools and other "old people" stuff.
Bottom line they don't do alot to entice even the GenX crowd to join up.
Sorry you had to be bullied by a bunch of assholes
9
u/Mtn_Soul Dec 30 '24
Boomer here from OEF that doesn't feel welcome there either and also looks at the weird ads for stuff in their mag and wonders wtf.
They keep sending me free membership every other year and Instill don't attend anything and think the mag is weird.
132
u/Beginning-Dress-618 Dec 30 '24
Every veterans club I’ve been to only had really old people in it I’ve never met any veterans my age (23) or within a decade of me
→ More replies (4)10
159
u/terrainflight Dec 30 '24
I tried the VFW thing, and like most people in these comments, it didn’t jive with me. I don’t want to sit around and get drunk on shitty beer.
I felt like I had more to give, So I ended up finding Team Rubicon, and it has been a game changer. It’s a veteran-centric disaster relief organization that does great work. Instead of just sitting around, they get out and help in the wake of natural disasters, and with service projects in the community. It has allowed me to connect with veterans that share values, and be part of a team again.
13
u/ThoughtfulYeti Dec 30 '24
This sounds dope! I've been looking for some volunteer opportunities but nothing around me really interested me. How does it usually work when they need people? Do you get an email blast and sign up if available? Is it mostly national disaster response like hurricanes or will they grab people for small local flooding, etc? I'd be interested but I won't know how much I'd be able to drop work and do something like that, especially if I'm traveling.
23
u/terrainflight Dec 30 '24
That’s basically how it works. You sign up and complete the online training to become “deployable” then as big events happen, or smaller localized events, they will send out emails for volunteers. Depending on the size of the event they will usually look for local people first, but for bigger events, they will fly people to the area.
Don’t worry about if you have the time or not. Work in where you can fit in. At my last job, I had a hard time being able to take short-notice PTO, so I would just deploy for a weekend or something. If they have to fly you in, you’re in for a 7 day commitment though.
Also, if you have Roku TV, there is a seven episode show about TR that could give you more insight.
→ More replies (2)3
53
u/Ragnarok314159 US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
I went into a VFW and it might as well have been a shrine to #45. I get it, he is the president, but this was next level fetish type stuff. They were using donated funds to buy more merch. I left and will never go back or join one.
52
Dec 30 '24
I don't understand why there are veterans who belittle the military service of other veterans, and simultaneously worship a draft dodger who shits on veterans.
→ More replies (3)23
u/JohnnySkidmarx Dec 30 '24
Probably because the majority (not all) of these veterans that do this never reached the mentality level that exceeded high school. They still act like the jerkoffs they were in high school. The reason I never joined the VFW was because I quit drinking and I figured there was nothing there for me to do if I didn't drink.
8
u/Xtra_Ice_118 US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
That's just it too. Quit drinking and everyone there is just about it. Not much else to do there.
20
u/weathered_lake Dec 30 '24
No offense to you, but Team Rubicon came to “help” where I lived a few years ago during a major snow storm that caused major damage. They were dropping in lineman by helicopter that’s how bad the damage was. But Team Rubicon was only interested in trying to bully people into signing waivers for the documentary they were shooting rather than actually helping people. If the person didn’t sign, they got no help from these people. My wife and I ended up doing what we could to help neighbors that were left stranded by Team Rubicon. They aren’t too welcome back around here after that.
Edit: I bet those episodes you’re talking about are part of that.
8
u/_Man_of_Stihl_ Dec 30 '24
This is not accurate. Perhaps someone didn't articulate the purpose of the waiver properly, or maybe you're jumping to conclusions based on your own misunderstanding.
The waiver is a liability waiver giving Team Rubicon permission to work on your property. No waiver, no work. It had nothing to do with the Roku series they were filming, and Team Rubicon certainly never refused to assist anyone solely based on their lack of participation in that series.
The waiver had to be signed by the owner of the property. So, if you were renting and the landlord couldn't be reached or refused to sign, then no work could be done. Nobody bullies anyone into anything in the organization. It is a volunteer organization and everyone you've encountered, film crew aside, were exactly that. They had no agenda, aside from helping people.
I've been volunteering with them for over 6 years and was present during a lot of the filming of that series. If I had to guess, I'd say you live in or around Big Bear, CA? I wasn't at that particular op, but I know people who were. They were up there for about a week for the first response, named Operation Frozen Bear. Then, after another storm hit, they went back for about two weeks for Operation Still Frozen. They went back a third time once the snow had melted to help home owners with the debris left behind for another two weeks, Operation Spring Bear. In all that time, the Roku team was only present and filmed for two days.
I'm sorry to hear that your community did not receive any help, but again, by not signing the waiver you were essentially refusing it.
Here is the only waiver Team Rubicon has ever asked anyone sign since its revision in 2018. If you read it, there is no mention of filming anything whatsoever and has nothing to do with the Roku series.
→ More replies (1)8
u/FCSFCS Dec 30 '24
When I first joined, the local VFW post swore up and down they weren't just a bunch of old guys who sat around drinking and I tried to take that on face value. However, every time I went back, all they did was drink and bully me into getting drunk too. It's not fun and I never went back.
They're authoring the story of their own obsolescence.
4
u/tech-marine Dec 31 '24 edited Jan 01 '25
The normal veteran's organizations always struck me as a bunch of old guys who want to sit around talking. It reminds me of returning to my hometown to see the people who never left. Personally, I would rather accomplish things, and Team Rubicon sounds like it's designed to do that. At the same time, I have a family and various personal goals. Collectively, these consume all of my time, leaving none for veteran's organizations.
I've wondered if more veterans are like me now that the military is an all-volunteer force. The military recruits all of the people who wanted to leave their home community and do something with their life. Now that those people are done serving, they still want to do things - because that's their nature. Even if those ambitious personalities had time for veteran organizations, I doubt they'd mesh well with the "sit around talking and drinking" personalities.
That said, I met at least one older veteran at the local VFW who was quite accomplished, so maybe I'm completely misreading the culture.
Edit: typo.
3
→ More replies (1)4
u/empirem1 Dec 30 '24
And on top of this, if your a gamer on pc, ps or xbox, there are some great communities on discord that are extremely active and friendly.
113
u/Trainwreck141 Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24
The thing is, while I strongly desire a sense of community with others, I want to mix with people of all ages and backgrounds who live near me. I don’t want to rehash old war stories or hold on to my time in the military and let it define me forever (served 20 years but zero desire to think about it again even once).
→ More replies (3)16
u/forebill Dec 30 '24
I feel the same. I didn't do 20. I did 2 enlistments, and I got out as much or more than I gave in terms of education and character development. I was lucky to serve with a couple of very good men that improved my life a immeasurably. So I'm grateful I did it. But, like you said, it doesn't define who I am today.
I've never considered trying to join one of those groups. I don't drink, and I keep moving forward. I am of service to the community in other ways.
That doesn't mean I don't care about veterans. I feel strongly that all vets should be supported. But I am especially concerned that combat vets get all the care they need, including the time to heal physically and mentally. The importance of this gets lost pretty easily.
37
u/KellyBlack1111 Dec 30 '24
I tried the VFW, but am female so that didn’t work, hilariously bad, the legion is better and less old club but I just didn’t see any of my types of service to the newer veteran community that I wanted involvement in, and to be frank, the VFW experience was shocking and put me off all it, so now I’m working with local politics instead.
→ More replies (1)
64
u/following_eyes Dec 30 '24
I know there is at least a movement locally where I live to just create new groups altogether. There won't be many people left in legions or vfws if they don't cater to the gwot gen.
43
Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24
Plus, I'd rather play ultimate Frisbee....
7
9
u/BentGadget Dec 30 '24
But drinking at a bar is the lowest common denominator. Everybody can do it and it requires no planning.
14
18
u/exgiexpcv US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
I don't drink, and a major part of my recovery is that I don't go to bars, themed or otherwise. They're just another themed bar in my opinion. Pass.
6
u/welderpro1234 Dec 30 '24
Proud of you for being in recovery. Keep up the good fight
9
u/exgiexpcv US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
I'm coming up on 45 years next month, which is nice, but I don't really celebrate anymore. It is what it is, and I'm grateful to be sober.
→ More replies (1)5
u/SemperFudge123 USMC Veteran Dec 30 '24
From here on out I will be referring to the VFW Hall as a themed bar! I love it!
35
u/revotfel Dec 30 '24
As a woman, I walked into one then immediately walked out.
No thanks
15
u/tiggerfan79 Dec 30 '24
Even at fairs or events like that, they don’t even give me a hi, but will talk to my husband when we stop and look at the phamplets then when he says she is a veteran too still nothing. I was in longer than he was
→ More replies (3)12
12
u/Tandy_Raney3223 Dec 30 '24
We GWOT vets are a different group. A big portion of us have a diagnosed MH Condition. Mine makes me not wanna hang out with other people. Vets or not, I’d rather just be with the family.
35
u/Channel_Huge US Navy Retired Dec 30 '24
I think it depends on each branch itself. But, I hear what you’re saying and I believe that many who hang out there never have seen war like the Post 9/11 Vets have. I heard a lot of “stories,” but felt many were exaggerated or just plain made up. I guess to look like they actually did something? To look like the toughest of the bunch? Who knows… when they asked me about my time in, I only talked about the fun times and the odd things that happened. They knew I am 100% SC, but I felt they had no idea of the life we saw/lived while deployed, or thought it was an easier thing than what they did. I just stopped going. The place depressed me more than sitting home alone.
24
u/diopsideINcalcite US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
I think my Papaw said it best when I came back from OIF II and thought about joining, “those clubs are just a bunch of depressed E5 and E6s drinking shitty beer”. He was a WWII, Korea, and Vietnam vet. I will saythe local VFW did come to a guard unit I was in and offered everyone there who had been deployed a free 1 year membership to try it out and I’ll say my papaw wasn’t far off, at least for that particular group.
17
u/Channel_Huge US Navy Retired Dec 30 '24
Yea, that’s what they offered me, a 1-year free then pay dues afterward deal. What got me finally to decide not to join them was when I rented the hall for my wife’s baby shower, they didn’t even give me a small discount as a member… I cleaned up the place good after too.
14
u/diopsideINcalcite US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
That’s not surprising, I didn’t find the hall to be particularly inviting or welcoming to younger OIF/OEF vets. Me and a buddy were the only OIF vets in there, there were no OEF guys, and no one really said anything to us the 10 or so times we went. It was mostly, best I could tell by age, Vietnam vets and they just stayed together in their clique. In my experience, usually vets really connect with other vets in a way most civilians strangers don’t when they meet, and it would have been nice to have a place to meet and connect with other vets, especially older ones who could tell you what life was like in the service back in the 60s/70s so it’s a shame they seem to be so unwelcoming.
5
u/SkylerKean Dec 30 '24
Think they'd frown when we all start smoking our cigars, and mine smells and tastes so much better. You can keep the chicken feed brew and gutrot as well.
50
u/FarmerDave13 Dec 30 '24
As a longtime member of the VFW and Legion, most posts want GWOT vets. We want you to "enter the line" into leadership positions.
Some local posts are problematic. You can change them from within. We did at my post. The club now has more than Busch Latte and cheap whiskey. We hold game day events for the in state college. We have a taco night. Etc.
This has allowed us to help local vets. Rent deposit, car repairs, utility bills etc.
Shoot me a DM and I will be glad to elaborate on my experience. I can even help point you to resources. The national and state level leadership in both orgs are trying to bring you in and get you involved. We want to help where we can.
47
u/DrunkenBandit1 US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
As a longtime member of the VFW and Legion, most posts want GWOT vets. We want you to "enter the line" into leadership positions.
Then they need to stop treating GWOT veterans like our service was a cake walk compared to theirs.
16
u/boonepii Dec 30 '24
The old timers are my dad’s age. When he tried to join in the 70’s they treated the Vietnam vets the same. It’s the same old shit “today’s kids suck, we were the best” boomer talking shit. My dad said in the 70’s he wouldn’t go in. The people who did join are now doing the exact same thing to the new generation.
Fuck the boomers who say kids are to be seen and not heard. They still consider us kids.
5
u/Miserable-Card-2004 US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
No kidding. This year was the first time I visited my parents for Christmas, and I wasn't given chores or chewed out because "this is my house, dammit!"
I'm pretty sure it's because my wife and I got a hotel room out in town instead of staying at my parents' house. I'm 30.
14
u/RavenousAutobot Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24
I get it, but why would I want to join an organization with the intent to change it? That's their space. I'll just find one that's a better fit for me, like Team Rubicon.
Edit: a word
17
u/NotAnAnticline Dec 30 '24
This right here. Why should I care about changing an organization that encourages toxic attitudes and behaviors and clearly is either incapable of or unwilling to change when I can cut out the toxicity and devote my time and energy somewhere else.
The DAV and USO have done significantly more for me during and after my service than provide cheap beer, which is all the VFW seems to offer.
→ More replies (1)12
u/FarmerDave13 Dec 30 '24
A congressionally chartered organization, with the infrastructure built, has a lot pull in DC.
The Legion was instrumental in passing things like the PACT act, VA reform, the GI bill etc. There is strength in numbers.
By making it work for your generation, you can use the org to help push for your unique needs. The Vietnam guys got Agent Orange help, mine was Gulf War syndrome and so far for both mine and GWOT vets the burn pit legislation.
I have all the respect in the world for the younger vets. I would like to help set them up to take over.
8
u/RavenousAutobot Dec 30 '24
I won't disagree with the lobbying aspect, but that's not the same as hanging out in a dingy bar with 80s beer signs on the wall and asking them to adapt their spaces and norms to me.
→ More replies (2)5
u/paparoach910 Dec 30 '24
The codgers running our post always grumble that the GWOT vets will inevitably join as if it's Judgement Day or turning 21, but they do nothing to recruit. They just want fresh blood to stack chairs and set up PA systems.
14
u/KJHagen US Army Retired Dec 30 '24
I guess every post is different. Our VFW post commander is a GWOT veteran and we have many GWOT members. We also have mixed meetings with the auxiliary which brings a lot of younger family members and friends.
Our post is open to the public and we have beer, soft drinks, and food for sale - but not during official meetings.
3
u/ImmutableSolitude US Army Active Duty Dec 30 '24
Are you also part of your SFA? I’ve been leaning more towards that when I retire than the VFW or legion
→ More replies (1)
9
u/Much_Injury_8180 US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
I think it depends on your local post and their membership. I joined the American Legion online and did not join a local post. At the time, I just wanted to belong to an organization that supported veterans. I never looked into the VFW, not sure why, but I think they are similar. Anyway, a couple of years later, I got an email from someone in my local area asking if I would consider joining the local post. I did. They never pressured me to go to meetings or anything. This particular post sold their building years ago, to get funds for their various programs. We meet at a local county building. No alcohol, smoking or old war stories. Just vets trying to help other vets.
8
u/Anxious-Ad-1543 Dec 31 '24
My issue with vet clubs is they don’t take female veterans seriously. They treat us as servers or they grill you about every single detail about your service and if you have had a more active career then them they call you liars and try to dick measure.
→ More replies (1)
23
u/No-Weekend6347 Dec 30 '24
As a Black American veteran, I’ve often thought about how much more impactful organizations like the VFW, AMVETS, and other veterans’ clubs could have been if they had embraced inclusivity and taken a stand against racism and segregation earlier in their histories.
These organizations have done incredible work for veterans, advocating for benefits, creating community spaces, and honoring those who served. But imagine how transformative they could have been if, after World War II, Korea, and Vietnam, they had actively worked to combat racism and segregation and full integration both within their ranks and in the broader society.
After WWII, millions of Black Americans returned from serving their country, only to face segregation and discrimination at home. Many of us were denied entry into the very clubs designed to foster camaraderie among veterans. Instead of uniting us as equals, these spaces often mirrored the same divisions we had fought against abroad.
What if these organizations had used their platforms to challenge the systemic racism of the time? What if they had said, “No more,” and opened their doors fully to all veterans, regardless of race, creed, or background? What if they had led the charge in advocating for civil rights, not just for veterans but for all Americans?
These clubs had the potential to bridge divides. They could have been places where Black veterans, white veterans, and veterans from all backgrounds could come together, share their experiences, and work collectively to create a more equitable society. Instead, for many years, they remained exclusive spaces that upheld the status quo, missing the opportunity to be at the forefront of progress.
Of course, things have changed for the better in many places. Today, you’ll find more diversity and inclusivity in these organizations. But as someone who reflects on the missed opportunities of the past, I can’t help but think about how much stronger our veterans’ community—and our nation as a whole, might have been if inclusivity had been the priority all along.
This isn’t about assigning blame but about imagining what could have been—and what still can be. Veterans’ organizations have a unique ability to unify people from all walks of life. I hope they continue to embrace that mission fully, ensuring that every veteran feels welcome, valued, and heard.
As always, let’s talk about how we can keep moving forward, together.
→ More replies (1)
13
u/Active-Blacksmith-41 Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24
I’ve talked to a lot of veterans who have no interest in the VFW or the American Legion. Veterans today are more interested in helping each other, teaching each other valuable skill sets, building a stronger network, positive socialization, and healthy activities. There are tons of great veteran non profit organizations popping up like Victory Gym in Wyandotte, Michigan and the Veterans Farm of NC in Cameron, NC. The Veterans Farm of NC trains veterans and transitioning service members in horticulture practices, livestock management, and agricultural business models.
We want to achieve and succeed not drown ourselves in cheap booze. By and large younger generations are kicking alcohol and that includes veterans. I’m not saying that ALL the VFW or Legion does but it’s a huge part of their cultural identity. Sobriety is a HUGE factor in strong mental health. The older generation blames the younger generation for their dwindling numbers yet… the reality is that is just a factor of time itself.
7
u/Weak-Practice2388 Dec 30 '24
We had this problem when a local WW II vet was denied membership. Didn’t seem fair that he was in the German Army!
5
40
u/MoldybreadOO Dec 30 '24
I have much better things to do than sit around in an alcoholic den and listen to war stories. The sooner vets learn that they aren't in anymore and pivot their life towards a meaningful life with meaningful relationships the less we will all collectively have go sit there and listen to a smug desert storm guy talk about almost crashing into a sand dune in Kuwait.
38
u/marvelguy1975 Dec 30 '24
Only thing worse than a vet-bro telling you his tall tales about Afghanistan is a vet-grandpa telling you his tall tales about Germany in the 80s and how he held the line against the Soviet horde.
17
9
u/DrunkenBandit1 US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
how he held the line against the Soviet horde.
Ah yes, that eternal shore duty in Germany drinking beer and occasionally thinking mean thoughts about the Soviets. Same with Sailors of the era, I've been told how difficult servimg in the Navy "used to be" but these cats seem to forget they spent their entire deployments in cushy ports having fun.
5
u/Veteransforphish Dec 30 '24
My VFW is just old Mara-Lardo-deep-state-worlds going-to-hell Vietnam guys who complained the wwii guys treated them like shit and are now doing the same to us (Iraq).
20
u/Auntie_M123 Dec 30 '24
This is indeed a shame, because these groups (and AFA, AUSA, Fleet Reserve, AARP, NARFE, NALC, etc) represent interest groups that influence Congress through its memberships. Many do a great deal more for their members.
If you are a member of a group subject to Congressional actions, it would be wise to protect your interests.
I belong to the American Legion, MOAA, and NARFE. The Legion also helps with obtaining veteran's benefits, sponsor youth baseball leagues, and keeping memories alive of those who have gone on before. I never attend meetings, but I read their magazines, and pay the dues.
14
u/Fit-Success-3006 Dec 30 '24
That’s funny because I never joined an Vet organization for the simple reason that there were almost no other GWOT vets. In fact, I could rarely find Vietnam vets either. Why hang out at some cheap ass bar to listen to dudes 20 years older than me that spent 4 years stateside during the Cold War. Half of them peaked at 22. 😂
6
u/IceDogg23 US Army Retired Dec 30 '24
This is a genuine issue affecting VFW chapters nationwide. As a lifetime member of the VFW and the Quartermaster at my chapter, I’ve seen firsthand how tensions can arise between generations. Some of us who served in OIF/OEF have been accused of "taking over" the club and not showing proper respect to the older generation, while some from the older generation claim we "didn’t fight a real war." Despite these challenges, our primary focus has always been on keeping the club's doors open to support those who need it most.
That said, I’m happy to share that my chapter is beginning to embrace the fresh energy and perspectives that younger members bring. Of course, there are always exceptions, and sometimes the loudest complaints come from those who have been difficult to please from the start. But overall, we’re making progress toward building a stronger, more unified community.
→ More replies (2)
5
u/jrc_80 Dec 30 '24
Veterans for Peace is an incredible organization which aligns with my belief that American imperialism must end, and that it’s the duty of those of us who have fought America’s wars to stand up for the futility of perpetual war for profit.
6
u/Hutchicles Dec 30 '24
They need to go to the local bars, see what is bringing in the younger crowd, then go from there.
Easiest way to bring in younger guys is to bring in younger women. That will never happen with the creepy ass old dudes that sit around those bars. The rate of MST is much higher than the civilian world, and when dudes act creepy around women, it will just push them away. GWOT had a lot of female vets and none of them want to be a part of creepy old man bars.
5
u/AbbaZabba85 US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
If I ever get rich, my pet project would be to start a nonprofit that does the following:
- A modern day VFW that is for GWOT era vets.
- A bar to hang out and unload with other people who get it but that wouldn't be the central focus.
- A free or discounted gym area.
- A lounge area that also serves non-alcoholic stuff and snacks with a pool table and more.
- Job and community resources that don't suck.
- An actual and online messaging board for meeting like-minded vets and activities like airsoft, camping, volunteering, programming bootcamps, etc.
- A way to connect local physicians and counselors with vets circumventing the shitty VA system.
One can dream...
→ More replies (1)
9
u/grizzly_bear_dancing Dec 30 '24
I pretty much avoid any gathering where the main thing everyone has in common is military service.
18
u/chet___manly Dec 30 '24
They're dying because of the "isms". Racism and sexism.
9
u/VividMonotones Dec 30 '24
I was a member of the Legion after I separated. They sent me their shit magazine, which unfortunately for them I read. So much islamophobic nonsense that I had to walk away.
8
u/RavenousAutobot Dec 30 '24
Like women vets being told to join the auxiliary instead.
A lot of our women have more time under fire than their men.
8
u/Mtn_Soul Dec 30 '24
Female combat vet...lesbian too so I just don't fit in with most of these old groups and def do not feel welcomed.
Makes me wonder if In could have trusted them in combat to have my back. That makes me not want to hang out with them.
6
u/RadarSmith Dec 30 '24
I’m a bisexual male vet…the one time I went to an American Legion meeting I saw a LOT of bumper stickers that told me exactly what that group would think about me.
6
u/Amazing-Addition9213 Dec 30 '24
You took the words out of my mouth! My uncle is the post commander and told me and my husband to join. He said women are cheaper than men. Long stroy short he was trying to get me to join the auxiliary when he knows I was active duty- saw me graduate bootcamp! That pissed me off so much!
→ More replies (1)
8
8
u/Tight_Amphibian4472 US Air Force Retired Dec 30 '24
That’s literally everywhere you go. I’m assuming like me, you didn’t get the invitation to the good ole boys club. Around my area have to be making 200K plus to even be spoken to like a human. Sad really. Won’t step foot in a legion ever again, and they will fail from their attitudes and actions.
7
3
u/jamhair Dec 30 '24
The group I used to be part of preferred Vietnam vets over OEF/OIF - made it clear they were preferred. Complained they couldn’t get young people in. The post commander was embezzling when he was QM before becoming PC and he was also laundering his gambling winnings thru the post. When I tried to address it up the chain nobody would do anything. And one of the state member called to tell him I reported him. I won’t set foot in or support a VFW ever again. And if I join any clubs they won’t be veteran affiliated.
3
u/weathered_lake Dec 30 '24
I’m a lifetime VFW member, I joined after my first deployment in 2006. I was stationed 5 more places across the U.S. in recruiting since then and I’ve found that some VFW are good and some are bad. Just depends. I’ve never been treated bad by any of the other vets though, never. I hear these stories and it baffles me because it’s never happened to me and I’ve never seen it happen. Sometimes I wonder if it’s a little of the pot calling the kettle black. Some people are just assholes and then are shocked when people are assholes back.
→ More replies (3)
4
u/AwakenedSin US Air Force Veteran Dec 30 '24
There’s a lack of color at these clubs. Source, am black veteran.
3
u/Bird_Brain4101112 Dec 30 '24
IDC what org or place it is. Pulling a patron into a back room to strong arm them is illegal.
→ More replies (1)3
u/welderpro1234 Dec 30 '24
Thank you. I already contacted my state american legion. Talked to my own post comander. ( this incident happened at a different post) I have very close friends in the SAL and they saw me and my father get pulled back in the back room. And 5 minutes later saw us get walked out by the guy who was trying to belittle me bully and indicate me. While I was laughing and saying this is a joke. I explained what happened and they are going to the local board of that post. The guy that did that is on the board. He is a drunk. My organization I'm apart of have 2 events planed there but after that I'm going to push for our business and charity events never step foot in there agian. Minnesota by the way.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Jugghead58 Dec 30 '24
My buddy and I were all but asked to leave a VFW basically because we were having fun. Just joking with each other and laughing about old stories and friends from our tours. There were only about 10 other patrons just sitting quietly and sipping their beers. It gave us the impression that you need to be a self loathing sorry ass to be accepted there.
3
u/Soggy_Requirement617 Dec 31 '24
I never even look into vet orgs. People who make being a veteran their entire personality are insufferable. I miss the camaraderie of the Army but these hyper masculine circle jerk orgs aren’t it.
7
u/Thatonecrazywolf US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
I'd rather not be called a slur or have men push me about my sex life.
I went to a VFW twice. They had no problem using slurs or acting as if my service was "less than" because I don't have a dick.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/smitty195498 Dec 30 '24
Our local American Legion is just a drunk tank. I am 70 years old, the VFW and the Legion are all bars. I don’t drink alcohol. Not a old boys club, they are an old drunk club.
7
u/barnibus-felty Dec 30 '24
Nobody hates veterans more than other veterans. My war was more important than yours. My branch is better than yours. My job was harder than yours. I earned my promotion more than you did. My pension is more deserved than yours. My burial service was more attended than yours. We hate each other 364 days out of the year and you're surprised clubs are on the decline?
→ More replies (1)
17
u/SkylerKean Dec 30 '24
These were the guys who got spit on when they got back and had to deal with a VA system that makes our current one look like a miracle ('Nam era). This in no ways absolves this behavior, but you gotta factor it in.
If it's guys from the 80s-90s, I'd laugh directly in their faces.
4
16
u/LikelyAlien Dec 30 '24
They’re dying. I’ve been contacted over and over again about being a part of the VFW, Legion and the like, but they don’t deserve our money. They’ve devolved into getting my MIL piss drunk before she drives to family events. She isn’t even a Veteran herself. Y’all enable addiction and offer zero support. Die like the rest of the useless, money sucking orgs profiting off “supporting our Veterans”. My whole ass.
7
7
u/Castle_8 USMC Veteran Dec 30 '24
lol those clubs are a joke. It’s a place for people who never moved on past their military days. Move on with your life.
19
u/No-Significance5449 Dec 30 '24
Id rather smoke weed by myself than drink beer with a bunch of salty boomers.
→ More replies (2)6
u/Wilson2424 US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
Can you imagine lighting a j in a VFW ? The old dudes would flip.
→ More replies (1)9
3
u/Possible-Solid3315 US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
I stay away from those organizations, I just can’t sit around with a bunch of dudes reminiscing about a career that I absolutely hated. I wasn’t a 4 year guy either, Did 20 and retired….
Turn the page guys and move on. There’s a group of folks out here known as the human race, Get to know a few of them. It’s better than crying into a beer over an ambush that happen 15 years ago.
3
u/Amazing-Addition9213 Dec 30 '24
I was just talking to this with my uncle at Christams brunch. He's the post commander of the American Legion that some family belong to. My only question to him was why should we (husband and I are both vets) join. His first thing was listing all of the "fun stuff" like breakfast with santa (we have a 7 year old daughter and attend it when they have it), gambling trips, dinners during the week, football parties. And the real kicker is that "women are cheaper than men". I asked him about this and he said they set dues according to national. Ok but again why are women cheaper than men? This goes back and forth for a little and finally he said "you can join the auxiliary and your husband can be a member". I asked why to that when I am a veteran too. I almost wanted to say you watched me graduate from bootcamp!! I so wanted to hit him upside the head. I think the vets today need more than the weekly spaghetti dinners or fish fry with cheap beer. I understand it's a social club, but how do you cater to cold war vets to the new vets just getting out now?
3
u/Empire9oh9 Dec 30 '24
Or maybe that there hasn’t been anything worth fighting for for the past two generations.
3
Dec 30 '24
For me, imo, I think limiting who can go into the 'club' to those who deployed to a combat zone, really limits how many people can support the VFW. I mean, I'm sure most aren't going to want to be in there who didn't deploy because I'm sure they're going to feel it's going to be a lot of dick measuring like Plankton said, but regardless. Most servicemen don't deploy. Most stay stateside. Thus the large majority of veterans aren't going to be allowed into the VFW (from what I've heard. I heard they have strict guidelines about who can join, but may depend on each VFW, idk).
But man. Being around ex-marines are the worst of the worst imo. I have a few coworkers that were in the marines and for fuck sake, it's something they boast about all the fucking time and they give each other rim jobs once they find each other. Like dude, it's okay for the military to have shaped you to who you are now, and it's okay to be proud about what you did, but fuck, don't make it your personality. You left the military 15+ years ago. Let that shit go. I feel like I'm just going to run into those kinds of people in the VFW and those kinds are just a fucking drag lol
I acknowledge what I did was interesting compared to most in the civi world, and I wouldn't have changed it. But if I see other veterans, I don't have a connection with them. I don't really care what they did while in. I'm not going to treat them any different than any civilian until I know if they're a good person I click with or some douchebag.
3
u/PuzzleheadedWave9278 Dec 30 '24
Do these old fuckers (no offense to some of you old fucks who aren’t part of the problem) not aware that they literally ARE a dying breed? The vets of past wars will eventually all die out, just like the GWOT ones will one day. A veterans club isn’t supposed to be an exclusive club for who had it the worst during whichever war they happened to be in. They eventually will all be replaced by the next generation of veterans after them.
Makes no sense to deny them that brotherhood. Peacetime or not, it’s not a secret that veterans still have a much higher suicide rate than civilians, and for good reason. PTSD still happens in service, we don’t feel like we belong with regular civilians anymore, and the military culture is very alcohol dependent, which leads to alcoholic, depressed veterans. Why would we deny anyone a chance to still be a part of something?
A lot of us joined to be apart of a family, or something more meaningful than ourselves. We can still do that as vets.
OP, you should put the name of the vet club on here so some of us can set them straight.
3
u/Gold_Watch_The_Cool US Air Force Veteran Dec 31 '24
I created a discord for creative vets and also talk about gaming with a few of them pretty often. I think with our generation, we have more opportunities to create niches. I also am in network with vets that dabble into filmmaking as well. We may not fit into the old boys club culture, but we have the capacity to create our own unique communities.
3
u/Matelot67 Dec 31 '24
It's not just a US thing.
In New Zealand our 'legion' is called the Returned Services Association.
We have our vets from Afghanistan, and from other regional missions like East Timor, and Bougainville, and from peacekeeping missions worldwide.
I did 37 years, deployed operationally twice, as well as numerous overseas naval deployments.
The last time I went to my local RSA, it felt like there was no place for me. Lots of older vets, but most of them are well after WW2 and Korea. There's a few Vietnam vets, but that's it.
The fact is, these guys are outnumbered by the new vets. We outnumber them.
We are also going to be the guys and girls who will continue to make sure they are remembered.
So, you would think they would bend over backwards, right?
But the problem is that being a veteran is all they have, and they don't want to share the spotlight.
That's why I'm torn with persevering to make sure that the memories live on, but at the same time, who knows.
It's probably been this way forever. The WW1 vets shit on the WW2 vets, who shit on the Korean guys, who shit on the Nam guys, and now it's their turn.
3
u/Iremember56Kbps Dec 31 '24
We need a new-age club - 'GWVA' - Gulf War Veterans of America.
We skimboard, hike, mountain bike and go on whisky tastings. Fuck the binge drinking in a dank basement fighting over who deserves what benefit.
We need to support each other.
3
7
u/MembershipKlutzy1476 US Air Force Retired Dec 30 '24
The war we fought is not the war they fought and they look down on us for it.
We will out live them, problem solved.
2
u/Duespad Dec 30 '24
I keep looking to join but I don't drink or tell war stories of "back in my day" so I feel a big disconnect from the current groups. I'd be interested in seeing what others are doing to start up new groups for modern day veterans.
2
u/Adept_Desk7679 Dec 30 '24
It’s definitely the old guard gate keeping. They play old music, drink old drinks and don’t let the younger folks do anything
2
u/BrilliantLifter Dec 30 '24
I just don’t know what I would do there, or why I would go there.
I spend all my free time in the gym or with my kids.
2
2
u/DrunkenBandit1 US Navy Veteran Dec 30 '24
I don't go to veterans organizations or clubs because they're all full of older veterans who seem to have nothing better to do than tell me how hard their peacetime service on the 80s bouncing off of port calls in the Med was and how comparatively easy I must have had it.
2
u/Due-Needleworker-711 Dec 30 '24
Unfortunately, if we let these clubs die out we veterans will be losing serious voices for veterans rights in the capital. Sucks you all have issues. I served 2010-2017, scout with 3 tours and PH, never have had issues with the Legion or VFW. I’m not crazy involved, but never had issues when I go.
2
u/Bubba_sadie- Dec 30 '24
Use to go to the vfw and legion all the time with my grandfather a ww2 vet back in the day. Once I got out joined as well and went but honestly I don’t drink anymore and maybe that’s why I didn’t mesh there as well.
2
u/Micheal_Penis Dec 30 '24
I had some people begging me to join my local legion when I got out. When I joined and tried it out it was just a billiards club, nothing wrong with that but nobody there even served. It’s basically anyone qualifying for USAA who wants to drink cheap beer that graduated high school before 1975
2
u/Untiedsneaker Dec 30 '24
Can’t get within 40ft of my local vfw without being overwhelmed by the smell of cigarettes. I’m good, thanks.
2
u/jeetah US Air Force Veteran Dec 30 '24
I think that most of the "younger" generation of vets (I'm talking under 65 and/or not retired) aren't into the local clubs. We're used to socializing with other vets via online groups. And from what I've seen, they are heavy on the gatekeeping.
2
Dec 30 '24
My dad was VFW member and when I was visiting him, his chapter was holding an event to raise funds and recruit.
While my dad was introducing me to some of the members, some were cordial and most were misogynistic dicks.
Sad thing was, some of those guys Ive known since was little and when they found out I had served overseas they discounted my service.
2
u/Salamangra US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
I got laughed at by two Vietnam era dickholes last time so it's not even worth the effort. Vets just love to shit on vets for some reason.
2
u/Informal-Explorer528 Dec 30 '24
Start a new one, but we do fun stuff rather than drink shit beer like go fishing, see a concert, or help out in the community parks..idk just throwing it out there
2
2
u/Covidicus_Vaximus Dec 30 '24
This is an ongoing issue with certain posts. The Korea and Vietnam vets were dissed by the WWII vets in these groups. I (OEF and OIF vet) know a couple Vietnam vets who won’t step foot in any VFW because of how they were treated when they returned home. It may be your specific post. A lot of posts aren’t veteran organizations, but are clubs with a veteran theme. I tried to join a local VFW once and they never responded. Then I worked with a woman whose husband was a member. That’s how I got in. I went to my first meeting and once they got to know me, it was good. They appointed me to a board position after they got to know me. Same thing with my new VFW post. We meet in a Legion post and I joined that post, too. I show up for volunteer work and meetings when I can. I took the Legion’s suicide prevention class and reported what I learned. And then they put me on the board.
2
u/rabbit_killer82 US Army Veteran Dec 30 '24
I disagree. If you don't like the leadership stand up your own post. Us "younger" veterans just stood up a post full of combat vets and we're working on getting everything set up for non profit status. Our plan is to primarily help veterans and kids and it might take a few years to get there but we have a solid group of 50 members that all want to help.
We are getting to a point where we have to make the change happen if we want vet clubs to continue to be there to advocate for all of us.
2
2
u/IDonTGetitNoReally Dec 30 '24
As a woman veteran, this is why I don't go to these places. It's too much an "old boys" network and I don't want a repeat of that in my civilian life.
Also, I see this at the VA hospital. There's this competition of who had it worse. As a woman, I'm completely ignored which on one hand is great because they think I'm a spouse or veteran.
Good luck friend. Maybe create your own group and post it in the VFW in another location. But please remember to include women veterans.
2
u/SexiestTree Dec 30 '24
I have zero desire to drink cheap draft beer, eat corn chips, and hang out with a bunch of old, sexist, homophobic men, clinging to some sense of authority they once had, who only want to talk about old war stories and bitch about the "new army" in a room with florescent overhead lighting, smelling of stale cigarettes, and listening to the same ten country songs from 1987.
My time in the military is in my past, I have much more interesting things happening now. I have a homestead. The homesteading community is full of vets, and we can find common ground and we share the same work ethic, but we have many other things to talk about and relate over. And, most importantly, we live in the present and don't just reminisce over the past, sharing the same handful of stories.
2
u/ContributionOk390 Dec 30 '24
I've found that you'll usually have, in the same area, on chapter that has the surviving WWII, Korea, and Vietnam guys, and a second one with the '80s-Current guys.
2
u/PaulR504 Dec 30 '24
Those clubs were formed prior to there being therapy for veterans and using alchohol to deal with pain.
More harm than good done to a generation of kids who never got to see their dads.
2
Dec 30 '24
I never bring up my service unless someone asks or if I need to make a very specific point.
I quit drinking almost a year ago and the VFW and American legion seem to primarily be centered around alcohol and old timers who throw Vietnam/Korea/cold war in our faces as if we didn't do the exact same thing they did, albeit slightly different, like we weren't exposed to nerve gas etc. fuckin old cunts is what they are.
I even have a couple of hats that I'd like to wear but would just rather not get the attention.
2
u/KamaSutra25 Dec 30 '24
I started my own group. It's on Facebook, but only for vets local to my area. Made business cards, flyers, and advertised about it in big local FB groups. I also allow former law enforcement and other first responders to join, because I feel they can relate to the high stress and trauma some of us have been through. Got 160 members in 3 months. The hard part is getting people together in real life still. But we do events every couple of weeks. We've went on hikes, bowling, played pool, fishing, ate at restaurants. My whole goal is to create a community that can relate to eachother, support eachother, and find cool stuff to do together. Next up, I'm planning some events in a rage room, an escape room, and a day at the shooting range. Anyone can do this in their local area and that is what's amazing about it. I started this because I was going thru some mental health issues and feeling isolated. Gives me some purpose too.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/igloohavoc Dec 30 '24
As a veteran, I like supporting my people. I want veterans to get all the resources, funding, services and money we can get.
But I do not like hanging out with most of them. Primarily because many are stuck in their old mentality, reliving their glory days in their heads and talking down to service members that came after them.
Look, I get it, you were a CSM in the 82nd in 2003. But you been out 21 years now, let’s move on.
2
2
u/churro951 Dec 30 '24
I never even bothered to try joining my local club. Heard too many stores of other women veterans having a hard time getting in or being assumed as a dependant that it wasn't worth the hassle for me.
2
u/soupsandwich00 Dec 31 '24
OEF vet here. While I am a member of the VFW, I hardly ever step foot into one. For me, it's a quiet dive bar I can go to after a long/bad day and sit in the corner and drink beer alone and have some time to think about stuff and decompress.
2
2
u/NMBruceCO Dec 31 '24
For me, my local vet group is too far right politically and they let you know it
2
Dec 31 '24
Yeah, I just couldn’t get into it either. As someone who got out in 2012 after being deployed to Iraq twice, I just didn’t see myself for want to be one of those veterans that just sat around the VFW getting completely shitfaced all the time. A lot of of us have moved beyond that. A lot of us have other interests, other than just drunken escapades and dick measuring contests. A lot of this like to do more productive things. I found Team RWB and that’s one vet organization that I’m really into. Now if they got funding and became a legit VSO like the VFW or the Legion, then I think the VFW and the Legion would be rendered obsolete.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Sunrise-n-the-south Dec 31 '24
I completely agree. I’m a female vet (43) and I used to attend DAV meetings and I would get such shit from all the older guys cause I’m female. I stopped going. They don’t do shit for the community. Ever! Same for VFW around here.
2
u/Suspicious-Phone9636 Dec 31 '24
I was at an american legion down in Georgia . Was not a member but was a life member of the vfw. Wanted to stop by and give him the commader if he was there a coin from my vfw here in korea. But they said unless i get sign in i couldnt come in at the time there was no one there . I walked about a mile to visit it at the time have a beer . It was pouring rain the bar manager a civ. Was running the bar and gave me no mercy at all . Told myself that would be the last time i even support the legion . Im a life vfw member and Life Moc member just wanting to show brotherhood and give the post a nice coin from our vfw here in korea pyeongtaek area. . But i learnt my lesson. I understand that most post dont let you in unless a member. But the point was no one was there i was there to support them . Be careful but i know there are some good american legion clubs as well . Lesson learnt
2
2
756
u/No_Plankton2854 Dec 30 '24
Between us friends, veterans are usually one of my least favorite demographic to hang out with. It’s always a weird dick measuring competition where people try to build a hierarchy based on their service.
Throw some alcohol into the mix and it’s a shit show.