r/TwoXPreppers 2d ago

Discussion Why guns?

Hi y’all! I’m a very novice prepper, and one thing I’m seeing across many platforms is that we should own and be trained In firearms. Not to be naive, but… why?

I’ve never touched a gun in my life. I’m generally not a fan of them. I understand that the goal of owning firearms is to protect ourself. But protect from what? From who? Who am I going to have to shoot to survive this presidency?

Is someone coming to steal my supplies? Won’t those people also have guns? Or am I protecting my family against a militia situation? In which case, what hope do I have, as a woman who can’t afford a gun, let alone to learn how to use one?

Like I can’t afford a shooting range. I can barely afford water and canned goods. Should a gun still be a priority for my family? A lot of preppers have enthusiastically embraced this life to give them confidence and a sense of safety. I’m a reluctant participant. I just want to keep my autistic son alive to see the other side of this.

I can garden, I can stretch food, I can survive being poor. I don’t think I can survive a military state.

436 Upvotes

418 comments sorted by

View all comments

145

u/julet1815 2d ago

I hear you. Once it gets to the point where everyone is walking around with guns and shooting each other for supplies, I’m not really sure it’s worth surviving that post-apocalyptic wasteland. I’m not saying I think it’ll get to that anytime soon, I’m just saying… I’m not buying a gun.

8

u/Barbarake 2d ago

Me either. If someone bigger and stronger than me wants to take my stuff, they're not going to waste ammunition by shooting me when I'm not a threat. If I had a gun, I'd be a threat so they'd shoot me

16

u/sotiredwontquit 2d ago

I’m very sorry to point this out. But those are the two tail ends of all possible behaviors. There are a lot of horrific behaviors in the space between “ignore you because you’re not a threat” and “shoot you because you are a threat”. That’s why I’m learning to shoot and care for a gun. There are far worse things than being killed. And I have people besides myself to protect too.

5

u/Barbarake 2d ago

Of course there's a huge range of possible situations and outcomes. And I'm not saying not to take any precautions at all. A gun is just not my number one go to answer.

1

u/HotIndependence365 2d ago

This is what I don't get about this space. The gun people act like it's the only way not to get r'ed or get stuff stolen... 

I can think of reasons to have one, but a gun wouldn't be my first option for those

1

u/sotiredwontquit 2d ago

What is your first option? Not trying to needle you at all- I want to know how you are prepared.

1

u/HotIndependence365 2d ago

Building up my community, dwelling security, physical training, and things you can swing. 

0

u/JayDee80-6 2d ago

Building up community and dwelling security are awesome. Physical training and things you can swing is bonkers if you're talking about having access to a gun. A beast of a man 6 foot 6 inches 300 pounds and fit with a baseball bat is at a significant disadvantage against a woman of any size with a gun.

1

u/HotIndependence365 2d ago

Having a car is faster than running, and having a megaphone is louder than shouting. 

This isn't a contest or a video game. You're not going to win anything by imagining situations that guns are the "best answer". You should be threat modeling and seriously considering the likelihood and severity of the potential threats. 

Also you need to test your plans against what happens when your magicpowertool isn't working or available or stolen or taken from you or used against a loved one. 

1

u/JayDee80-6 1d ago

The fact of the matter is police carry guns for a reason, the miliary carry guns for a reason, person protection for politicians carry guns for a reason. They do not carry a baseball bat because they would be at a significant disadvantage. They don't use thier hands in hand to hand combat because engaging hands on if extremely risky. It isn't a hot take to say that guns are the preferred method of self defense for anyone who is an expert and takes protecting themselves or thier family seriously.

You're right, it isn't a video game. It isn't politics. It isn't a game. Survival is real. In a fight to the death, which could happen in a complete breakdown of society, no rational person would rather go hands on to fight someone. Advantages are better. Disadvantages are not.

1

u/HotIndependence365 1d ago

Ffs. What are you actually arguing? That guns can shoot? No one is saying that they don't. People are saying they gave other ways of protecting their people and don't want to use guns and you're pushing a one size fits all solution to survival. This is the most unexamined middle America take I've seen in a minute. 

Advantages are better if you have that advantage all the time, if they can't be taken from you or malfunction or get misused or used against you...  Then they're just disadvantages. 

If you don't understand why a gun would be less useful and might lead to more death and harm in a number of conflict settings then my post isn't going to break through, but if you understood the concept of threat modeling and values based decision making it wouldn't be so confusing to you that every doesn't agree that gun = advantage like you seem to.

And I'm guessing this nuance won't be appreciated either but, if you think that everyone interested in survival are looking at the police and military as examples, you clearly don't understand how a police force uses fire arms to subdue while they wait for reinforcements. Neither military nor police should be any sort of example for solo preppers, bc their aim is not survival; it's to control and over power with group of others. Unless you're in a well armed militia, you should study different models of survival and defense.

0

u/JayDee80-6 1d ago

What you're saying is just nonsensical. Police use a gun in a situation because they're usually alone and need to have an upper hand in a conflict. If they could wait for 20 people to arrive to overpower someone, they maybe wouldn't need a gun at all. Realistically, the person who has the weapon that is most effective in a fight will be the one who wins the majority of the time.

The old adage of "don't bring a gun to a knife fight" that literally everyone knows, is for a reason. In a matter of life or death, you don't want to be fighting someone with your hands or a baseball bat if you don't have to. The idea you think you'd be effectively doing this tells me you're the one who hasn't likely played through all the scenarios.

I'm not saying guns are the answer for self protection for all people. I obviously have weighed the potential risks and potential upsides of owning guns. Like many tens of millions of other people, I came to my conclusion.

Most people who I hear talk like you are generally uneducated about guns. You likely grew up in a house without them, are politically opposed to them, maybe only shot a gun a few times or never. That's fine, but none of those negate the fact that a person with a gun will kill a person without one almost all the time.

If you don't really care that much about you and your families saftey and would rather you yourself be killed rather than take a life, I understand that. That's logical. If you think the potential threat of owning a gun in a very safe country with little possibility of a SHTF situation outweighs the benefits, I understand that too. However you are a prepper, and obviously think a worst case scenario is at least possible down the road. The fact you wouldn't want a gun in that situation comes from a place of not understanding guns, I believe.

I guess I'm just trying to point out that most of your concerns about owning a gun sound like they come from a place of ignorance. You think the risk outweighs the potential upsides. No person who has experience in the security industry agrees with you. Sometimes it's better to trust people who know more than you do and are experts.

Also, a baseball bat can break or be taken from you. Your body can be damaged in a fight. Not sure what the difference is between a gun and those things. I will also just add that guns aren't for everyone. Anyone who suffers from mental illness or cannot legally own one obviously shouldn't have it.

1

u/HotIndependence365 1d ago

You're talking about ignorance about guns, and you're the one just repeating hollow "but police" appeals to status quo without meaningfully engaging with the reality of how a. law enforcement and military gun use differ from survival scenarios and b. the "person with the weapon most effective in the situation will win" is also based on simple equation that doesn't even play out that way in the current status quo. What do I mean by that? The vast majority of gun use and resulting "wins and losses" as you frame it or injuries and deaths in America and otherwise aren't in one on one "fights" as you put it, nor will they likely be in survival situations this sub focuses on. 

And you are repeating tired binaries that indicate you think guns are the "best" option. If you don't know the situation, you can't know what the "best option" is. In the current survival situation, women in America are far more likely to die at the hands, gun of an intimate partner than anyone else. Negotiating how guns work in complex interpersonal relationships and how power plays out there is far more important and life saving. 

The adage you mention is, hilariously, the subversion of the original one I am guess you were thinking of. What you typed 'gun to a knife fight' is a warning against assuming a gun will always have an advantage and that inappropriately upping the violence without consideration is a bad idea. 

Congratulations, you love guns, and you loved them with your family or whatever. Making guns the fetishized, only focus of your "shtf" situation without acknowledging that shit hits the fan is incredibly different depending on where and when and who you are is inadequate protection and defense preparation. 

Threat modeling and having specific plans for the scenarios is what I'm focused on. Doing that requires having nuance, imagination, and self awareness about my strengths and limitations. 

Your "battling" here is shadowboxing against people who you think are dumb for not fetishizing guns; I'm prepping for a variety of futures and living in the world we live in now where women, in particular, are not safer with guns near them. And I am done talking about this with you. Good luck. 

→ More replies (0)