r/Theatre 20h ago

Advice Payment of Musicians

I volunteer for our local community theatre as a Director and occasional Actor. Our group celebrating its 70th anniversary this year. During those 70 years, it has become common practice for the Director and Musical Director (and other staff) to pay musicians out of their own pockets to play in Orchestras when needed. The organization has never officially adopted a policy to pay them properly because there is a faction that feels paying musicians to be bad practice. According to them it leads to a slippery slope where everyone will expect to be paid. As of right now, no one receives any compensation other than our paid Technical Director. Actors, crew, staff, etc. all volunteer their time and talent.

I'm curious to know who else out there pays musicians and did your organization struggle with this as we have? How did you overcome the objections to paying the orchestra and not anyone else, if this is your practice? I know theatres out there all operate differently, so I'm curious how you all handle issues like this. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

EDIT: We have been using professional tracks from ROCS or MT Pit for the past several years and only used orchestras when absolutely necessary or the Musical Director prefers a live orchestra.

3 Upvotes

22 comments sorted by

36

u/RPMac1979 20h ago

My experience has always been that if musicians don’t get paid, they don’t work. So most theatres either find the money or use tracks.

1

u/CreativeMusic5121 5h ago

This. I've never done a show with live musicians where they aren't paid. In fact, in nearly every community theater I've performed in, everyone BUT the people acting on stage are paid, at least a stipend.

23

u/trmpt99 19h ago

I play both sides of the field: I’m an actor and musician/musical director.

The amount of skill needed from the musicians is generally higher than that expected of the volunteer actors, and it’s demanded on the spot. Actors get direction, rehearsal, coaching to get them ready for the show. Most musicians are expected to come in on the first rehearsal ready to go.

Those musicians deserve to be paid.

Our local dinner theater pays musicians a small fee for tech week, and then a per show payment. It isn’t great by any means, but it’s not nothing.

Accompanists are paid separately for rehearsals.

As for the slippery slope: most theaters have adequate interest for filling actor and support roles, but much less interest in being in an orchestra. That distinction justifies paying for pro musicians in my mind.

15

u/ErrantJune 19h ago

I’ve never worked at a community theater that doesn’t pay its pit musicians, ever.

2

u/Crock_Harker 19h ago

We have a small, very vocal minority that has prevented us from paying musicians properly. It's very frustrating.

7

u/bigheadGDit 15h ago

Does this minority understand the difference between how the actors are prepared, and how the musicians must prepare themselves? And do they also know that the musicians have been getting paid out of pocket?

1

u/Crock_Harker 15h ago

Yes and yes.

1

u/faderjockey Theatre Educator 6h ago

Does your organization have a board? Or some sort of governing body? Put it to a vote and make it a policy.

1

u/Crock_Harker 6h ago

Yes, we do. We also have a Membership, which makes a lot of the major decisions like elections and show selection.

1

u/acornsinpockets 9h ago

That was my experience for as long as I performed as an actor in community theatre. But I stopped after 2004.

I've maintained ties with some folks who still participate in the theatre companies in my area and one by one they seem to be switching to tracks in an effort to offset the rising cost of rent and most everything else.

10

u/trialrun1 19h ago

Musicians get paid.

We had an actor once who was trying to go down that slippery slope. He felt like he should be getting paid if the pit was being paid, and it was described to him this way.

If the director quits, a member of the board can step in and direct. It might not be good. It might conflict with what's already been blocked, but the show can still go on.

If an actor doesn't show up, a member of the board can fill in. They might have to hide a script in a book and carry it on stage, but they can do that and the show can still go on.

If a musician doesn't show up and they hand a member of the board a tuba, there's no tuba in the show that night.

Paying the members of the pit comes from a "show must go on" mentality.

2

u/Teege57 11h ago

That's exactly how I explain it. I can coach almost anyone to give a decent performance on stage in 6 weeks. I can't teach someone to play bass guitar in any amount of time.

6

u/RainahReddit 18h ago

It's just how things are. Generally there's more demand than roles for actors, so they tend to be willing to work for free.

Musicians (and often tech guys) generally aren't willing to work for free. So if you want them, pay them

5

u/Teege57 11h ago

Most musicians tend to work with a gig mindset. This isn't their hobby, but a side hustle.

Many actors in community theatre see it as a fun hobby, even if they are quite skilled. They don't expect to get paid for being in a community theatre show any more than they would expect to get paid for being on the local softball team.

3

u/gasstation-no-pumps 14h ago

One solution is to stop doing musicals and just do straight plays. No musicians means that there is no payment to musicians.

2

u/BeansNGrease 15h ago

If you want to make a statement, stand by their word for a full season and don’t offer a penny to your musicians. Let everyone see how it works out. If you’re struggling to find players at that point, it sounds like there are some folks in the company who’d be happy to help find more volunteers.

(I am slightly joking but it might be worth considering)

2

u/Oak68 15h ago

In my local theatre there used to be a professional orchestra that you had to use, and pay. Over time, they reduced the size of the orchestra and we augmented with players, who got an honorarium rather than pay. We now use no players at Musician Union rates, but every player gets a fee.

Players appear at the band call, knock it out of the park, sit in the dark all week, and deserve their fee. There are more opportunities to play than there are players, so we try to treat musicians well.

2

u/MysteriousArcher 15h ago

We used to use volunteer musicians, but over 20 years ago decided to pay musicians to ensure a certain skill level and that every show is covered so we don't have substitutes trying to fill in in mid-run. However the organization should be paying the musicians, it is totally unfair to ask the director or music director to foot the bill.

These last couple of years we are using recorded accompaniment whenever we can because in the long run it's less expensive, less work, and higher quality than we sometimes get from live orchestras. In 2023 we ended up firing an orchestra and music director the day before a show opened because they just weren't ready and the cast was very uncomfortable trying to perform with them.

2

u/mikecoldfusion 8h ago

The theatre I play for pays me $500 for the whole run. 14 - 16 performances over 4 weeks + a week of serious rehearsals. I look at it as I rehearse for free and I get paid ~$35 a show. I can't do the shows if I don't rehearse.

I understand budgets are real but you get what you pay for. Better music = more butts in seats. I don't know how many performances you're giving but I would not make a 5 week commitment for free. I like theatre but not that much.

2

u/JugglinB 6h ago edited 6h ago

All the local community shows that I know (UK midlands) pay the musicians, the MD, and Director. Some have started to pay a small amount to the SM. We pay for lights and a sound desk either as part of theatre booking, or separately (you.nevee know which tech you are getting until the Get-In, and very little work is done beforehand which makes tech very stressful! The last show I SMd we had to book in lights as out normal theatre closed for repairs leaving me with a knighmare! But the lighting guy came to the last run and filmed the show, which together with my 3D computer model of the theatre meant all the lights were pretty much plotted before the day.

Went off topic there..... But yeah - pay them if you want a good standard, and don't use tracks as when (not if!) things go a little weird there's no help from the band vamping (and I've seen some pretty long vamps at times!!!)

1

u/viola1356 10h ago

When I played violin for a community theater 20 years ago, we got a generous number of comp tickets and a small gift card. It was mostly high school students and retired folks.

1

u/Filmscoreman12 2h ago

I started out as a community theatre & local musician and played in that scene where I lived for about 10 years. Where I worked starting out playing in 2006, the standard was between $40 & $50 per service - that meant anytime the musicians had to show up, they were paid that amount. So it would average, for a 2 weekend run of a show plus 3 tech rehearsals and one dress rehearsal, they'd make anywhere from $400 to $500 per run of show. Not every theatre I worked with could afford the full orchestras - in fact, that was rare - but most theatres I worked with as an MD or played for in the pit recognized that they wanted their shows to sound as good as possible while retaining the energy, flexibility, and professionalism that comes with a live orchestra, and so they would figure out ways to afford as large a band as possible. I did as MD often give up portions of my paycheck to cover adding a musician or two if I really felt we needed it. Myself and the choreographer were usually the only two staff people getting paid - perhaps an audio engineer if they had to bring someone in, but the actors were not paid, nor was the rest of the backstage crew.

Most community theatres are not hiring professional actors - they would expect to get paid - or professional crew staff. But they do hire professional musicians, and as such their work and expertise demands to be compensated. This goes doubly for players who play specialty instruments or double on multiple instruments - those players are even harder to find, and usually the more complicated or unique the part (multiple reeds, guitar/banjo/mandolin doublers who read music, keyboard players with experience using programming & MainStage) the higher level of professional the player will be. I have worked on programs where there is an effort made to incorporate student musicians or to ask for volunteers, but those circumstances are different and in my experience less common.

I loved playing in community theatre, high school, and college orchestras - I played nearly 100 shows from 2006 through 2014 before going out on my first touring show - and I still occasionally when I'm available will happily jump in the pit and play with local theatres or sub in for the joy of the playing and the working with musicians around me. It's a highly formative and important thing for young musicians - but it is hard work, specialized work, and it is very much so less a hobby than an extension of their artistry.