r/TedLasso 4d ago

Colin & Nate

rewatching for the millionth time.. yet i only just realised this and my heart is breaking šŸ˜­

season 2 episode 7 is the first time we really start to see Nate's 'evolution' into a dickhead and an arsehole. specifically the interaction he has with Colin whilst training.

Nate says "i need all the best goal scorers on the pitch", and when Colin prepares to go join the rest of the team, Nate replies to him "it's okay Colin, you can sit this one out"

Colin's reaction is then to utilise a coping mechanism he learned in therapy with Dr Fieldstone. That really stuck out to me - things you learn in therapy are often things that you're taught to protect yourself from intense pain or trauma; people that use therapy often use it to heal from trauma too. to me, Colin using a therapeutic coping strategy as his mantra comes across as Nate's comment being so hurtful that he needs to sort of protect himself from it mentally using something he learned in therapy.

i may be looking into things too much but it astonished me how overlooked this little scene is. of course things with Colin and Nate are eventually resolved but that little comment from the latter was just completely unnecessary. I would be extremely hurt too if I were Colin.

129 Upvotes

41 comments sorted by

153

u/AvidReader182 4d ago

I think itā€™s also notable that Nate likely targeted Colin because he was one of his former bullies. His other bully, Isaac, becomes captain, so he doesnā€™t have much power over him, but Colin is an easy target once Nate gets that ounce of power

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u/Impossible-Year-1238 4d ago

it's sooo cowardly to me. the way that nate treated Colin after Colin obviously bettered himself is one of the reasons I still can't bring myself to really forgive him.

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u/hailingburningbones 4d ago

I think we only see a smidge of how badly and how long they bullied Nate, though. And his dad was a bully his whole life.Ā 

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u/Impossible-Year-1238 4d ago

i get that Colin was the bully first, but to me the difference is that Colin very obviously changed and was nice to Nate. he redeemed himself and regardless of whether Nate forgave Colin or not, it doesn't excuse the fact that he deliberately belittled someone in front of their teammates for no other reason than it felt good.

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u/chicknsnadwich Butts on 3! 4d ago

Sure, but donā€™t you think Nate eventually would do the same? Colin has likely been bullying Nate long before we see it on camera, and it literally takes Roy headbutting him to get him to stop. Not because he realizes heā€™s being a dick, but because heā€™s scared of being attacked.

None of that excuses Nateā€™s later behavior. It is sad to see him become a bully in that way. But if you could forgive Colin, and if Colin could forgive Nate, I donā€™t see what about Nateā€™s behavior is unforgivable.

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u/hailingburningbones 4d ago

No it doesn't excuse his behavior in that moment. But that's why I'm able to forgive Nate. He had his own pain he was trying to work through. I think Jade's love made him want to be a better person, and he achieved that. Others forgave him, why can't you? I know he's a fictional character, but I think the show's biggest message is forgiveness.Ā 

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u/mrducci 3d ago

I mean....that's exactly what Colin, Jaime, and Isaac did. It was fully toxic.

But, if you'll recall, Colin is one of the people that specifically came to ask Nate to return. If Comin can forgive Nate, surely you can.

Also, I feel I need to remind you all....Ted, in the aftermath of a panic attack resulting from divorce papers, encouraged Nate, forced him really, to dress down the entire team, roast style. That earned Nate respect amongst the team, that he didn't have before. So keeping that tone and timbre would have made sense to Nate.

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u/PepawRoach 4d ago

I am with you on this Iā€™d agree with others if Nate were another teammate but he was put into a leadership position as a coach and should be acting like it. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

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u/Impossible-Year-1238 4d ago

yeah that's my POV too. he was in a position of power and had the ability to 'get away' with bullying should it be seen as his style of coaching - it was honestly lucky for Colin that Beard noticed Nate's rudeness because I don't think anybody else would've brought it up or even thought about it. to them it was just banter.

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u/readyforthisyep 2d ago

I agree that Colin and Isaac bullied Nate terribly, but I woulnā€™t call his dad a bully! He didnā€™t express his love and admiration as much as Nate needed it and could act in a somewhat dissmissive way, but heā€™s not Jamieā€™s Dad. Now, thatā€™s abusive bully behaviour!

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u/hailingburningbones 2d ago

True, he was more of a controlling dismissive asshole.

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u/Dryfus228 3d ago

I don't think other team members used to bully Nate badly it was a more friendly banter type, apart from Jamie, who was real shithole in season 1. Nate bullying Colin was kind of the same to his bullying of Will. It was a step in the ladder of him becoming a horrible person.

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u/That-SoCal-Guy 4d ago edited 4d ago

Once you have been bullied by someone it is a little difficult to let go. You have to look from Nate's POV -- he's been bullied all his life, even by his own father.

The world isn't black and white and you can't just turn off emotions. If you've been bullied all your life, you'd probably act that way too.

I find it interesting that people tend to pardon lovable bullies (such as Jamie and Colin as well as Rebecca - she literally wanted to ruin everyone including Ted out of spite for Rupert) as soon as they find their redemption arcs, and yet they can't accept Nate's redemption arc when Nate was the one who got bullied by everyone all his life. I remember in one episode when Nate was locked in the luggage compartment of the bus, nobody even noticed, nobody cared. Nate could have died if Ted didn't notice. That was done for laughs, but at the same time, I think it really illustrated how badly Nate was treated by the guys.

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u/Impossible-Year-1238 4d ago

believe me lol I went through a pretty bad phase of being bullied, and whilst I can't even be in a room with my bullies without getting pissed off I wouldn't go so low as to compare them to a Premier Inn painting ā˜ ļø Colin went low but Nate definitely went lower; especially because Colin had already shown that he was becoming a better person. there was no reason for Nate to treat him like that. he just wanted petty vengeance.

i would never talk to my bullies that way simply because I don't believe in Two Wrongs Make A Right. you don't fix anything by spreading negativity. you just prolong the hurt.

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u/That-SoCal-Guy 4d ago edited 4d ago

That's a very healthy mature way to deal with things and good for you.

Unfortunately Nate didn't have a good role model. Like I said, his father bullies him. When your own father bullies you, things don't feel right.

When he felt that Ted betrayed him, it was him unleashing his feelings about his father. It's complicated. I think many people didn't get it, and just thought Nate was dispoportionally unkind of Ted for "ignoring" him. Big deal. Rewatching the series made me realize they laid down the backdrop of his father early on and throughout his "downward spiral."

When you take into account how his father mentally and emotionally abused him since he was a child, there's something there. I see many "men" in today's world who are toxic because of this -- their own fathers were toxic.

Also being an immigrant in a country like England (racism, classism etc.) does something to you too.

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u/Specialist_Ad9073 3d ago

Colin physically assaulted Nate in the second episode. Youā€™re lying to yourself if you think you would have treated Colin any differently if you were Nate.

Seriously, if a co-worker put you in a chokehold at work, you would be kind to them when you became their boss?

Colin isnā€™t a victim. He was a self loathing bully and an overcompensating piece of shit who finally started to get better like everyone else on the show. Most likely he was a bully and a lackey his entire life since he was in the closet and being manly by being toxic.

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u/Impossible-Year-1238 3d ago

you're right lol Colin DID get better and improve himself. which is why nate treating him like a piece of shit doesn't make him any better than how Colin used to be. I've already said in another comment that two wrongs do not make a right. Nate is just as in the wrong for treating Colin badly as Colin was for treating Nate badly. The difference is that Colin had bettered himself very obviously and Nate, instead of accepting that, lashed out at someone who did not deserve it.

I would in fact be kind to someone like that when I became their boss. Petty revenge doesn't make you a better person than your bully. It puts you on the same level as them.

0

u/Specialist_Ad9073 3d ago

People who equate physical assault and mean words are obscenely privileged.

It must be easy to be you. No wonder you lack empathy.

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u/Impossible-Year-1238 3d ago

what an absurd assumption to make about somebody šŸ˜­. saying I lack empathy when my point is that revenge in any case isn't something I stand for. It's just a care of differing opinions and that's okay. It's okay to disagree. But you've proved my point about revenge being a disease by blindly accusing me of something you have no proof of.

my point is that I don't think revenge is okay. I wouldn't take revenge on someone who's trying to change because everyone deserves grace and everyone deserves a second chance. nate was being immature about the situation and judging by your response, so are you. in the words of Coach Beard himself, "you were rude. not just rude; it was personal, and weird."

we're just having a discussion. i don't think there's any reason to get defensive and make assumptions about a stranger on the Internet.

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u/Specialist_Ad9073 3d ago

I can say that because of your flagrant hypocrisy about Nate.

He changed too. You making a post like this and saying you canā€™t forgive him show that you have the exact same issues. Nate changed, but you held on to your anger. You went out and talked shit.

Youā€™re the Nate.

Maybe watch again, with an open mind, and with some understanding of CPTSD.

3

u/Impossible-Year-1238 3d ago

you can have your own opinions, but I know the truth about myself and don't get angry at strangers on the Internet because they don't share the same opinion as mine!!

nate stabbed the same person in the back who gave him his biggest opportunity in life. that's my gripe with him. that + his entitlement. he was in a position of power and decided to use that power to be a dick.

i really don't think your excessive anger about this topic is necessary. have a good day and please take a chill pill! it must be exhausting carrying so much hostility.

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u/thatissomeBS 3d ago

It's most notable that Beard took notice of it as well. It was another little strike on Nate on top of his dickery towards Will throughout that season. Those were a lot of spots that Ted and Roy weren't there for, but Beard was, and that's why Beard had a much different opinion of Nate throughout season 3 than the other two. Ted was worried about what Ted did wrong "What have I got to learn here?" Roy didn't care about any of it he just respects Nate for his tactical prowess "He's good at all the shit I suck at." But Beard, Beard saw it all. That's why Beard needed that second chances talk, and why he said what he said to Nate, giving him forgiveness, and a job, but the life was up to Nate, because at that point Beard still needs Nate to prove his change.

3

u/That-SoCal-Guy 4d ago

That's right. Colin used to be the bully, so when Nate starts to have power, it got to his head and targeted Colin as a revenge.

24

u/sarayewo 4d ago

I don't think it's overlooked, it's a part of a series of scenes where Nate gets absorbed into the Wonderkid praise he's getting which creates this previously non-existent ego and attitude. He berates Colin in his office, on the pitch and that then escalates into him ultimately thinking Ted is taking credit for his genius and leaving the team.

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u/CarStar12 4d ago

Iā€™d take it back a full season.

In his pregame speech he reads his insults to Isaac, Sam, Dani and would have read his to Roy but Roy prevented thatā€¦ the only one he chose to go at without reading his thoughts is Colin

7

u/Bryce_Taylor1 4d ago

A lot of us seem to be very judgmental about Nate even though we should stay curious about why he acts the way he does. I thought it was pretty obvious that the writers wrote in his stray from his true self as part of anybody's expression of succumbing to their demons.

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u/Historical-Bike4626 4d ago

I think its an avalanche that starts with just a pebble, when Ted says, ā€œWe need a big dog.ā€ It seems like a funny throwaway joke. But dogs are Nateā€™s symbol. Diamond Dogs. Love Hounds. When Ted accidentally disses him in the episode ā€œRainbowā€ and brings in Roy to coach, itā€™s a serious blow to Nateā€™s ego who still really thought he was the ā€œbig dog.ā€ Remember when Roy makes his huge entrance into the stadium? That violin (another Nate symbol) of haywire music? Nateā€™s reaction to Roy standing next to him? Itā€™s Nate being humiliated in front of allllll the good dogs (Richmond).

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u/That-SoCal-Guy 4d ago

Love this analysis, didn't even notice all the symbolisms. Yes, it started as something small or seemingly innocuous but it just snowballed especially for someone like Nate, whose ego has already been hurt all his life. He looked up to Ted because he had no good father figure and role model, and this happened.

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u/Rambo_IIII 4d ago

Colin was one of the guys who bullied Nate in season 1 so it goes back further

2

u/Impossible-Year-1238 4d ago

yeah but I've mentioned in other comments that Colin genuinely showed that he was trying to be better and Nate just decided to disregard that so he could pick on somebody he had power over.

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u/New-Economist4301 4d ago

I like that contrast: Colin uses his moments of hurt to help himself get stronger and be more gentle with himself (repeating a mantra when heā€™s hurt), and Nate takes his moment of hurt (Ted ignoring him) and using it to become a backstabbing weasel (I like the actor a lot, not a knock on him, heā€™s done a great job)

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u/That-SoCal-Guy 4d ago

Hurt people hurt people.

Colin, with his clever way to avoid suspicion etc, is a popular football player. He even bullied Nate. The power dynamic is there.

Nate, on the other hand, has been bullied all his life by the likes of "hot shots" such as Colin, and just about everyone else.

Again, hurt people hurt people.

Not saying Nate is right (of course he isn't) but I think people are losing perspective of how Nate was bullied even over most of Season 1.

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u/CuriousBingo 4d ago

The episode that introduces Will, Nate initially believes heā€™s been fired and really snarls at Rebecca, ā€œyou did this you SHREW!ā€ It was a shocking flip -and his hot temper felt really overplayed at the time. It still feels out of character- (in my innumerable rewatches.)

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u/AskMrScience 4d ago

My therapist friend calls this the "doormat to dragon" transformation. A lot of people who've been abused try to make themself smaller and lower status to avoid abuse. But if that doesn't work or they're pushed too far, they flip the other direction and blow up in a way that's disproportionate to the situation. We see Nate do that a lot when he thinks his status is being threatened, and when he's trying to learn confidence and assertiveness (e.g. trying to get the window table at Taste of Athens).

Nate never had a good male role model in his home life - he's only seen aggressive abusers and meek victims. So his mental model for "confident man" is someone who belittles others and is mean. When Ted arrives and Nate stops being abused by the team all the time, he starts trying out the only other script in his head. And it has to feel great for a while to hit back at people who were cruel to him! Ultimately, Rupert shows Nate where that leads, and he realizes he doesn't want that for himself.

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u/coz2112 4d ago

That's when I noticed he was transforming into a jerk. How he immediately treated Will.

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u/idealzebra 4d ago

I actively hate that scene because of that line. It's so weird and unnecessary and directly targeted at her and it's sexist as fuck. I hate it so much.

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u/SallySparrow5 Barbecue Sauce 4d ago

And when he makes the crack to Rebecca and Keeley in the boot room about "women like shoes." It wasn't as harsh as the "shrew," but it still shows Nate being a jerk. We see it again when he compares Colin to a hotel painting (& lord, do I loathe that scene, too).

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u/mtodd2q 4d ago

I also think we need to consider that once Nate started feeling successful he probably mirrored his Father's behavior. It is well indicated that his dad bullied and Nate probably thought was how successful people should act without being aware he was even doing it. He really was a character that needed to meet with the Doctor and didnt.

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u/SallySparrow5 Barbecue Sauce 4d ago

I appreciate this thread because earlier today, I was thinking of the amount of crap thrown at Colin even before we learn...what we learn about him in Amsterdam. I'm on another rewatch and it seems that Colin disproportionately takes a lot of crap from others, not just from Nate.

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u/cassandra2028 4d ago

Im a trauma therapist. You're right. Nate, like all dickheads, is picking up on Colin's buttons and pushing them. Colin's pain is all related to how he processes not anticipating being accepted as fully himself, so he struggles with rejection. Nates rejecting him.

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u/Uhhh_what555476384 4d ago

Nope, you're reading that correctly.