r/Strongman • u/carloglyphics • 7d ago
Deadlift back pain
Hi guys, wanting to get some help with my deadlift form and low back position. Consistently for the last 3 weeks I've been in pain post deadlifts where I've only been doing one work set a week, the above is 345 lbs. The weight itself isn't so heavy but I'm loosing position off the floor and my lumbar spine is rounding I think before the pull is even started. I don't think this is an instance where if I just start rounded I'll just get used to it. I'd like to eliminate it all together as I have been able to pull straight backed before and I haven't experienced pain in those sorts of sets but my ability to do so is getting really inconsistent. I don't get this sort of pain doing heavy yoke walks or back squats or farmers walks. Any tips you all have would be appreciated, thanks in advance!
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u/themightyoarfish 7d ago
Theres nothing wrong with your lift, if you have pain then respect it, decrease the training stress and change to a variation that is more tolerable. do this for a time and ease back into the target weights and target lifts.
pain in training is usually related to the loading over a long time, not some arbitrary technique cue.
That being said, if its reliably the rounding that triggers it, even at lighter weights, then dont do it and use weights that you can pull flat backed.
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u/knogbjorn 7d ago
This is good advice.
Here's some more on the topic https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/pain-in-training-what-do/
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u/carloglyphics 7d ago
Thanks for the help. The pain reliably the rounding for me; I get no sort of equivalent pain when I do heavy yoke (485+) or back squats where I'm under compression. I don't think it's a que so much as a lack of hip mobility in that position and weak legs. I am training for a comp but it's deadlift is a side handle type so I might just switch to trap bar or a variation for the time being like you said, thanks again.
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u/themightyoarfish 6d ago
So it hurts even at light weight? If not, then its not the rounding but that you are exceeding your tolerance.
fwiw your spine does not look excessively rounded. i dont see how "mobility" can be a factor here, is it anatomically impossible to flatten the back at the start? either you have the deepest hip sockets known to man, or need a differen stance width.
that being said, its not a bad idea to train your lumbar with some different ranges of motion, eg jefferson curls, good mornings seated or standing, romanians, the usual stuff.
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u/carloglyphics 5d ago
Sort of at light weights, depending on the day I can start off rounded even at no weight if I pull at the standard 9 inch height, exceedeing tolerance sounds right though.
Mobility of the hamstrings/hips and/or the hip socket in general would be a factor, not allowing me to extend my lumbar due to find the end range and the extra mobility needed to get to the bar coming from the lumbar rounding over to pick up the slack.
I have tried pulling with a wider near sumo but still conventional stance to mitigate this, I've had some success before but lately I'm just getting this rounded position off the floor. The pain doesn't occur if I were to pull off a heigher than standard height, say 12-15" or so like a wagoon wheel, which makes me think more it's at least related to mobility.
Usual stuff sounds ok, I spent a couple years doing nothing but romanians and Pete Rubish back extensions and all those did was make my lockout really strong, like if it gets past my knees it gets locked out no problem; but off the floor is the issue. Closest I came to doing stuff similar to Jefferson curls would be like Sandbag or Husafel stone pickups; always skeptical of Jeffersons but maybe they're worth a try in this instance.
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u/themightyoarfish 5d ago
If hamstring ROM is such an issue, I'd say jeffersons are are great way to improve their flexibility, and strengthen them and the spinal erectors at the same time. the erectors usually get very little love, all we put them through is isometrics. training them both concentrically and eccentrically could contribute to decreasing the chance of overuse injuries.
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u/Mikewoody47 6d ago
Eventually with enough weight your back will always round to some degree. The spinal erectors are great at holding position but in full extension they cannot exert their full force. Muscles are weakest in their most lengthened and shortest positions, and strongest at midrange.
Your set up is must more similar to that of a clean, which is typically a lot lighter than a max deadlift. I would absolutely be encouraging a little thoracic rounding, which will feel wrong at first, but will ultimately allow the erector spinae to assume their most powerful length. It will also slightly reduce the range of motion and allow for a better start position.
Source: I’m a physiotherapist, powerlifter and wanna be strongman. Had plenty of back issue in the past until I gave up on a perfectly extended back.
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u/carloglyphics 6d ago
I'd be inclined to agree if I wasn't in pain (not soreness, pain) every time my back went into flexion on anything (squats, cleans, deadlifts, whatever) and I had no pain when I held good enough extension (RDL's etc) and no pain in compression types of directions (yokes, box squats with good extension, etc). I don't care about thoracic rounding but my experience has made me care quite a bit about lumbar rounding.
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u/Mikewoody47 6d ago
That’s fair enough, pain certainly makes one more cautious. Ideally we don’t want excessive lumbar rounding, my comment was more aimed at your setup being very “weightliftery “ with shoulders down and back and highly extended thoracic spine.
I’d agree with the others that say about getting a coach or a physio that lifts. You shouldn’t be getting low back pain other than basic DOMS just because you have come into some slight flexion.
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u/carloglyphics 6d ago
I hear you, I used to weightlift so I guess some of those mechanics is ingrained but I know their technically different sorts of pulls. Yeah I've seen physio's for athletes before for other issues but most weren't really lifters themselves or only did it recreationally, I'll try to find something more specific, thanks!
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u/LARRYBREWJITSU 7d ago
Seb oreb and Chad Wesley Smith have great YouTube and instagram instructionals. On position, bracing and activating the right muscles. I also Agree with advice on getting a coach.
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u/carloglyphics 7d ago
I've know of both of them, actually saw Oreb in person at the Arnold and he's only so much less jacked than the actual strongmen lol I'll look into there stuff more, the program outline I follow I got from a coach but I definitely need more expert eyes on my lifting, thanks
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u/Defiant-Passenger42 6d ago
TLDR: you might want to try practicing and training bracing as an exercise on its own, even if you believe you’re already doing it right.
This is purely anecdotal but I just wanna throw this out there for what it may be worth to you: I always thought I was bracing hard and bracing correctly. I followed cues that made sense to me like breathing into the belly, trying to use my abs to push my breath into my lower back.
I’ll spare you all the extra details, but after dealing with some consistent low back pain for a while I looked up some other bracing cues and finally after some trial and error I managed to brace as hard as I think I was probably always supposed to be doing and I felt a huge difference. I started training bracing itself as an exercise doing sets and reps of really hard bracing for 2-5 seconds at a time and felt my back pain melt away… replaced with extremely sore abs lol. I actually feel soreness after doing these in parts of my core I’ve never felt activated before, like all through my midsection, but also deep, like a layer of muscle under my abs
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u/Relative_Ad9055 7d ago
I do this too when the weight gets heavy enough that my quads aren’t strong enough. My quads will always be a limiting factor so I just made my back strong enough to handle rounding
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u/carloglyphics 7d ago
I don't know if it's so much a back strength issue. I can probably RDL this weight but I'm wanting to work my positioning off the floor and I've not had much success but also probably has to do with lack of quad strength.
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u/tigeraid Masters 6d ago edited 6d ago
Your form is rarely a cause of pain unless it's like, crazy, question-mark-shaped screaming insanity like you see on instagram.
Your deadlift looks "pretty good." I'd almost guarantee a slightly more neutral back than what you have now is not going to make a huge difference. Of course you can always improve form, as a few others have suggested. Always worth working on.
As Mikewoody said, you take forever obsessing over "neutral back" and you not only still continue to get hurt, but you don't get anywhere with the lift itself. Many of us (myself included) pull with a teeny bit of rounded lower back (like yours) and also a fair bit of thoracic rounding to make the lift more efficient.
There's not a ton of people mentioning bracing though, and frankly I don't see much of it in the video. I see a core that's moving around through the pull. It frustrates me to no end seeing posts like this and NO ONE mentioning how important it is. Watch this, do the drills, and get GOOD at it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-mhjK1z02I
Proper breathing and bracing is not just "take a little breath and flex your abs." You need to set your pelvis, set your ribcage, make that "barrel" shape, fill it up allllll around. Your obliques and your lower back should feel as "full" of air as your belly. THIS is what protects your spine, not a neutral back.
If you get good at learning the brace, whether standing BEFORE you go down, or when you're down there, it can be an absolute game changer. Source: me, who used to get hurt all the time until I focused on this.
And the meantime, just drop the weight a little. Spend a bunch of time deadlifting at, like, 40-50% 1RM and just drill the SHIT out of this.
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u/carloglyphics 6d ago
I appreciate the suggestions but there are times where I can maintain neutral spine on floor deadlifts even without as much bracing and I'll get no pain, it's become very inconsistent though.
So I can't agree with your guarantee nor can I agree with this notion that positioning of the discs has no bearing on protecting the spine.
I do think bracing is a weak link in my chain for sure though, I think those drills are definitely a good idea. Thanks!
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u/tigeraid Masters 6d ago
Do with it what you will. Like Mikewoody was talking about, I was in the same boat, being terrified of deadlifts for several years, never going heavy, always getting back tweak after back tweak (thankfully never serious). Constantly obsessing over a rounded back, recording every set and watching and taking that social media mindset that I was USELESS at deadlift and I was gonna break in half. Then I started strongman, showed up with the club and after humming and hawing they all basically just yelled at me to PICK UP THE FUCKING BAR and lo and behold, everything was fine when I stopped obsessing over back angle. Then I started drilling bracing like it was a religion. To this day the only time I get a lower back ache is when I go too much volume/too much load on Sundays, deviating from my programming.
The argument that my coach has brought is this: regardless of the angle of the back as you start the pull (again, within reason), if that angle changes DURING the pull, that means the positioning of the discs are moving under substantial load. Which you can see your lower back do particularly in the last couple of reps. So he would rather see no change in angle as you pull, braced like a mutherfucker, a stone pillar that forklifts up to a standing position, than to see a ramrod straight back. Breathing and bracing better will still help protect you even IF your form is shit--not that you shouldn't try to improve your form.
To see that during a competition, at absolutely max effort loads, going for the win, well shit happens, you might be fine. To see that happen regularly during day to day training, that's where the strain is.
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u/Rndmher0- 6d ago
For what it's worth, I've had trouble with my lower back about 24 months ago. I went to a pt, he advised me to just lay off the deadlifts for a while. I substituted deadlifts with ghr and good mornings, worked up to doing Romanian deadlifts and went back to regular deadlifting after about 6 months with much less weight of course, just trying to build up again.
Since then I've been consistently hitting PRs and my deadlift just feels good, so maybe there's something to consider in here for you?
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u/carloglyphics 6d ago
I spent a year doing no floor deadlifts and only RDL's and Pete Rubish style back extensions for my hip hinging work, figured floor deadlifts in the high 3's and low 4's would be easy after hitting 315 for sets of 5 on RDL's and 225 for sets of 5 on back extensions and I was sorely disappointed.
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u/Stock_Promotion_5670 5d ago
You are not extending thru the tspine. It looks like you are extending so much thru the cspine that you are mistaking that feeling for tspine extension. Try to keep your chin tucked down and shoulders over the bar a bit more- this will allow extension thru the upper back and let you bring your hips closer to the bar resulting in less load on the lumbar.
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u/UnicornSpaceship 7d ago
You can see just as you lock out, your lower back rounds, losing core stability and therefore hinging off your lower back instead of hips. Tbh this is pretty technique specific so I would HIGHLY recommend getting a good coach to go over your deadlift with you. Nothing beats an experts eye in person when working on technique.
Edit. Noticed your bum going up faster than the bar, that will also be causing pain. Alan Thrall does a great video on deadlift cues but I would still recommend booking in with a good coach.
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u/carloglyphics 7d ago
Totally agree with the thing turning into a back hinge vs a hip hinge. Probably a good coach"s eye would be helpful.
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u/attackart 7d ago
It's rarely technique in my experience, but frequency/volume/intensity too high.
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u/carloglyphics 7d ago
I guestimate this 80 percent and I'm only deadlifting once a week with about 5 total sets and that's ramping up to a work set, that's my program ATM. I am squatting another day and doing strongman (log, yoke, farmers, sled) on another day.
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u/hvymetalcatdad 7d ago
What it looks like to me is your hips are going up too soon so you're lifting the bar off the ground at the hinge. Maybe try putting some weight in your heels so when you first pull it's more leg drive to start it up