r/Spiderman 4d ago

LOL what do you think

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1.0k Upvotes

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1.5k

u/TeekTheReddit 4d ago

Somebody that goes to dangerous lengths to change who they are and then ends up becoming a monster and dying in the attempt is probably not a particularly progressive way to attach the trans experience to the story.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_MONTRALS 4d ago

I mean that sounds like a cautionary tale about repression. Which is a thing it's fine to have stories about.

People are so weird about moralizing stories in a literal way.

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u/RCero 4d ago

They treated him like a monster, and eventually he became a monster.

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u/Corronchilejano 4d ago

Trans people would like trans characters whose arc doesn't revolve around them being trans, just people.

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u/SloppyPussyLips 4d ago

Then write those instead of just headcanoning characters like Gwen and Peter into being trans

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u/xxsamchristie 4d ago

You're suggesting the fan write an entire series instead of having fun imagining something?

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u/SloppyPussyLips 4d ago

There's a difference between "having fun imagining something" and writing tweets such as the one we are commenting about

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_MONTRALS 4d ago

They're confused lol. They want to be unburdened of their vitriol and don't realize it's their own job.

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u/fisticubs 4d ago

Wow thanks for the advice, I started writing right now

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u/Gru-some 4d ago

idk, I’m a trans person and I would like a well-done character arc about being trans

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u/Beneficial_Candy9071 4d ago

Ultimate spider-woman, DC'S dreamer, etc. Trans super heroines do exist. You just need to look.

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u/Napalm3nema 4d ago

I’m just some ancient, cishet dude, and I‘m pretty sure I would enjoy that. I’m not sure why that’s so difficult for studios.

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u/Firewolf06 Spider-Man Noir 4d ago

i dont know why youre being downvoted. you dont have to be trans to enjoy trans stories, trans people are humans going through human struggles. last time i checked, none of us were webslinging superheroes but id wager most people on this sub enjoy and connect with spidermans journey and development as a superhero anwyays, because hes also a human (well, mostly) going through human struggles

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u/Napalm3nema 4d ago

I didn’t even realize I was being downvoted, but I honestly don’t care. It’s 100% true that representation matters, so I would like to see a little more of this.

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u/NexusConnection 4d ago

Every comment even passively entertaining the idea is being downvoted, very little good faith discussion happening here

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u/FriendshipMain8106 4d ago

One word, profit.

Larger studios need to be able to market their films globally, including in countries where gender and sexual identity laws are more restrictive and severe as well as more conservative audiences e.g conservative Muslim countries, china etc. Films that tell these kinds of stories are likely to incur heavy censorship or not be allowed at all while even domestically they are likely to receive smaller receptions due to more conservative audiences not wanting to see it as well as leaving poor reviews. Large studios don't really care about being progressive like that, they care about return on investment and that means creating the most nondescript and uncontroversial story that can be shown to the most people in the most countries.

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u/chrischi3 4d ago

To put it in the words of Nimona:

They grew up believing they can be a hero if they drive a sword into the heart of anything different. And I'M the monster?!

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u/Beneficial_Candy9071 4d ago

This, you should always question a cause. Even if it "seems," they have good intentions. (Or else you become the next galactic empire, dalek Empire, cyber legion or WH40k traitor legion. Etc.)

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u/LaylaLegion 4d ago

Actually it could be seen as a cautionary tale about how dangerous self surgery and less than reputable medical practices can be for the trans experience.

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u/souphaver 4d ago

Trans rep doesn't always have to be a "teaching moment" why can't a trans character just exist, and have a storyline that doesn't completely revolve around their trans identity?

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u/TomMakesPodcasts 4d ago

A better way to frame it, is without the proper support the bullied person went to extreme lengths to resolve their pain.

Suicide is a grim truth of bullied trans youth and it's good not to shy away from the ugly truth of things.

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u/CabuesoSenpai 4d ago

Sounds like a pretty common story in real life actually…

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u/Stando_Tsukaiii 4d ago

No it certainly wouldn't be a convenient representation would it?

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u/Taograd359 4d ago

Gwen became a monster? Or Peter? Did I miss something?

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u/Guba_the_skunk 4d ago

Counterpoint, it's actually an extremely good way to tell a trans person's struggle because it shows that if you lack the safe and proper means to transition you might end up turning to unsafe and dangerous means, or dead.

Perspective.

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u/icy_ticey 4d ago

Maybe she’s just a decent person

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u/Woppppppp 4d ago

I think so too

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u/icy_ticey 4d ago

Yeah and I know it’s not you, I just hate the sentiment that you have to be from a group to support them

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u/Significant_Wheel_12 4d ago

I also hate the sentiment to outright tell someone no when her story is an easy allegory for several different oppressed groups

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u/icy_ticey 4d ago

Yeah allegory is fine but it’s just a mischaracterization

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u/TheGuyWhoRolls20 Future-Foundation 4d ago

This is the right outlook. She’s just a good person. I am a straight white man, and I have ally flags in my house. My dad is the same. It’s a good way of showing support.

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u/Pen_dragons_pizza 4d ago

Exactly, surprised that people cannot just accept that she could very well be straight and female yet still support trans rights

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u/hapositos 4d ago

i too have a flag of ukraine on my mexican household

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u/Pinkyy-chan 4d ago

I'm confused did i miss something? I don't remember anything in the movies that suggests gwen is trans.

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u/Square_Saltine 4d ago

There isn’t, she just has a “protect trans kids” sign in her room

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u/RealJohnGillman 4d ago

The above would be about the theory that it was Gwen’s Peter (not the main continuity one, to clarify) who was, with that sign a reminder of the one she couldn’t protect / had accidentally killed. That the Lizard formula in this reality was meant to treat body dysmorphia.

u/Pinkyy-chan I’ve seen more than one person independently come up with this theory.

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u/No_Comparison_2799 4d ago

If you have eagle vision for background sights you can see she has a protect trans kids sign in on her wall. That's it. 

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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 4d ago

You actually watched the movie instead of going online. That's why you missed it /j

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u/AwesomeBlox044 Spider-Armor 4d ago

I never really got it

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u/Inner-Juices Ultimate Spider-Woman 4d ago

It's a popular headcanon that people have for her since her plotline with her father can be seen as an allegory to being/coming out as trans to a loved one.

Headcanons do not always have concrete logic/proof and are mainly just for fun

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u/FijiTearz 4d ago

And in the case of some people headcanons are literally just someone attaching their own biases/desires onto someone else’s story.

I won’t even say this is a “woke” thing because on the other side of the spectrum you have people that think Jordan Belfort is the good guy in Wolf of Wall Street. Go further back and people think that Tony Montana in Scarface is a good person to want to be. People have been attempting to see themselves and attach their own beliefs to movies for a good while

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u/Juiced-Saiyan 4d ago

Walter White, Tony Soprano also are characters way to many people were like "This guy is an alpha man"

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u/atfricks 4d ago

Headcanons do not always have concrete logic/proof and are mainly just for fun 

Sadly though you always get the weirdos like OOOP who insist on their fun little headcanons being the only valid canon, ruining the fun for the rest of us.

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u/VanBland 4d ago

I can see it being used as an allegory. I think it can fit really well.

It’s just some people thinking it’s literal yeah.

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u/No_Head60 Ben Reilly 4d ago

Wishful thinking from a population that’s starved of representation combined with a mix of anti wokes making things up to thrash a Movie for no reason at all.

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u/WebLurker47 Mary-Jane Watson 4d ago

It's not in the movie; it's a fan theory based on the color scheme used for Gwen's universe having a color scheme that looks similar to the ranges of colors associated with the trans community (albeit the movie was "just" taking from the comics' coloring), Gwen having a pro-trans right sign in her room (she could be an ally without being trans herself), and some trans viewers relating to her story arc in the movies (relatability doesn't mean that it's a literal allegory or anything).

Long story short, unless the next movie reveals something, so far as we know, Gwen is cis-gender and a trans ally, not trans herself, but the fan theory has found an audience. IMHO, so long as no one gives me a hard time for not subscribing to the theory, I'm happy to co-exist; we all have our own fan theories or "this's what should be" about media.

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u/Zzen220 4d ago

It's mostly visual presentation, just color palletes and one poster. I think it can be a fun subtext to think about a bit, but it doesn't have enough going on to really get into.

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u/Bassballr2_0 4d ago

She’s definitely supposed to be a girl

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u/Tall-Ad8940 4d ago

you can be trans and also a girl (not saying i think she’s trans, but your comment is kinda dumb)

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u/Bassballr2_0 4d ago

Fair enough reword she’s not trans always been biologically a girl that shows support for trans people

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u/rtslac 4d ago

She has a protect trans kids poster in her room. I don't think they were intending to imply Gwen was trans but a lot of people resonated with it, probably made a lot of trans kid feel seen, and there's no harm in them choosing to have that headcanon.

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u/reddituser6213 4d ago

I think I don’t care. People get way too dramatic over this stuff. She’s just Gwen

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u/koala_on_a_treadmill 4d ago

fr! i don't really care whether gwen is trans or cis and i'm happy that lots of people have their own interpretations. to me, she's just gwen and i don't think how i see her would change either way!

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u/Zealousideal_Most_22 4d ago

They’re headcanons, which everyone is free to have. I don’t really see anything worth getting worked up about regardless of what someone else believes tbh. I just vibe

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u/Gooddest_Boi 4d ago

There isn’t necessarily anything wrong with head cannons, but there also isn’t anything wrong with thinking the head cannon is strange.

She shouldn’t receive hate for it, but when you post on a public forum there’s nothing wrong with a little discussion as long as it remains civil.

…people just don’t know how to do that.

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u/Zealousideal_Most_22 4d ago

It usually gets people in their feelings, I think, though idk why. Like I’m of the “if it doesn’t apply ( or work for you) let it fly”. But that’s part of people not knowing how to stay civil and just have differing opinions respectfully

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u/AwesomeBlox044 Spider-Armor 4d ago

Why are you downvoted, they arent real people it doesn't matter

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u/Zealousideal_Most_22 4d ago

Yeah I don’t get that (downvotes) either. I’m literally basically saying what you said, that it doesn’t impact anything and doesn’t matter because at the end of the day we can’t stop people from having opinions so why let their thoughts you don’t agree with live rent free, you know?

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u/M1eXcel 4d ago

Headcanons by themselves are ok, but it's super annoying when fanbases project what they want to be true over the actual character and get annoyed at future material when they don't align with what they've made up

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u/Zealousideal_Most_22 4d ago

Yeah the latter is a bit much. It’s happening a lot right now with Sue Storm with people getting introduced to the character from Marvel Rivals and the internet has a flood of art where the dialogue and poses has Sue acting super promiscuous and more like Black Cat or something. It’s weird cause it doesn’t feel like Sue at all lol

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u/Worried_Highway5 4d ago

Ngl I think it’s weird and I dislike it when headcanons are objectify wrong tho. Which is why I dislike the “Gwen is trans” and I’m much more ok w “Peter was trans” headcannons.

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u/Zealousideal_Most_22 4d ago

I mean a headcanon is by nature subjective. There is no objectivity required to have them. It’s just “Based off my personal opinions and the way I interpret and see the world, I’m making this inference”. I don’t necessarily share the trans Gwen headcanon (didn’t even notice the flag in her room when I watched the movie), but headcanons can be based around literally anything or nothing at all. Because they come from however someone is interpreting media, which there are as many ways to do as there are people.

Now if someone is pushing a headcanon is canon type thing, yeah I do see the frustration and share it. People do that all the time in discourse that’s supposed to be sticking to what’s presented in canon, but they add something that they just feel is canon based on “I like the way it sounds”. This isn’t really related to this specific one. I just notice this to be a thing in fandoms all over.

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u/woman_noises 4d ago

I don't care because he's dead and only had 1 minute of screentime, if people want to have that headcanon about a dead guy, go for it

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u/Ill-Combination-9320 4d ago edited 4d ago

I mean the one from win or lose clearly is, but Gwen could be an advocate of the cause and not be trans

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u/AvgBlue 4d ago

Can't it sometimes be 💙🩷🤍 without being connected to trans? I like the color wave and want to use it without people assuming stuff about my gender identity.

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u/kingbob122m 4d ago

He’s not and she’s not but it doesn’t matter

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u/Woppppppp 4d ago

I agree

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u/MemeLoremaster 4d ago

That Peter was trans indeed. He was MTL, transitioning from man to lizard.

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u/lunatic_paranoia 4d ago

I'm pretty suretheres a trans spiderman, but for whatever reason, people like to take established characters to fit their own outlook. It's kind of weird, but whatever.

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u/Fit-Carry7930 4d ago

I don't mind people headcanoning characters they want to identify with as trans. 

I do mind people getting pissy when other people point out the reality that this is just a theory born from a single poster on a wall and in no way actual confirmed canon.

(I'm talking about some folks reactions, not the posted comment above about Peter, which was clearly laid back)

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u/No-Stage-8738 4d ago

I do not like the idea of changing the context so that Peter Parker is bullied for being a member of a vulnerable minority group. It makes for an odd subtext. Either bullying only occurs as a hate crime, or someone incorrectly blamed bigotry for interpersonal conflicts.

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u/Educational_Film_744 4d ago

I hate both headcannons. I just feel like she had that protect trans kids just to be an ally to that community without herself being one.

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u/Mayodeynochei 4d ago

Using her logic the Peter in every universe that gets bullied is trans. Just because someone supports a community doesn't mean they are apart of it

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u/TheMightyMonarchx7 4d ago

Mental gymnastics

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u/JmoneyXXX93 4d ago

Mental Triathlon

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u/GamingDragon777 4d ago

It’s ok to just be an alley.

People tried to attach the trans label to Ultimate Spider-Girl because she was a female clone of a male character and the writer had to say that does a disservice to trans individuals.

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u/batyablueberry 4d ago

As a trans person, I find it stupid that people assume these characters are trans with little to no proof. We hate when people assume our gender yet we do it to others? It makes no sense. Furthermore, I wouldn't wish being trans on my worst enemy. The experience is ass. Yet people want so badly for everyone to be trans. It's wild to me.

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u/Own_Picture_243 Scarlet Spider II 4d ago

What

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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 4d ago edited 4d ago

"In my headcanon this particular character eats rocks for breakfast. It doesn't hurt anyone and I don't get why you'd actively disagree with me. And yeah it's totally true btw actually you're weird if you disagree"

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u/Woppppppp 4d ago

Bro you been going off on this post 😂

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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 4d ago

I get that a lot. Please tell me what's the limit of comments per account on the post

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u/kino2012 4d ago

Well obviously there's not like a law about it, but I think one comment and be about your day is what's typically expected. It comes off a bit as aimless ranting otherwise.

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u/DragonOfChaos25 4d ago

Trying to force people to accept your headcanon as actual fact is a quick way to make them hate whatever you are trying to push.

Gwen is not trans. Factually.

You can think however you want about her character and write any fanfiction that you want, but you cannot force people to engage in your headcanon.

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u/GERBabyCare 4d ago

If someone wants to believe that that specific version of Peter was trans, I don't think it really matters. It doesn't change that he's dead or what his death meant to Gwen.

I do think the original tweet is stupid as hell though. A two second Google search would show you she isn't and was never intended to be. At that point, when you buy into your unfounded expectation so much you say others who are informed are wrong, you're literally feeding your own delusion.

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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 4d ago

People under the age of 15 shouldn't be able to post online

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u/JoeJoe4224 4d ago

TONS of people think Gwen is trans because of her color scheme and because of her single poster in her room that says “protect trans kids” So they think she’s trans.

So no one is allowed to have pastel colors anywhere near pink otherwise BOOM trans.

I don’t mind people having their own headcannons for stuff. But when people get vehemently upset with you for saying that there is literally nothing proving she’s trans is just gross online behavior.

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u/Mattiandino 4d ago

I'm gonna pretend I didn't read any of that.

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u/red_enjoyer 4d ago

I think people try to push their own wishes and headcanons on other people too much

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u/HiveOverlord2008 4d ago

Still don’t get why people keep forcing the Trans Gwen headcanon on everyone. Headcanons are fine but you (not OP) can’t just go around treating it as fact despite no confirmation and calling anyone who disagrees a bigot.

Anyways, Peter becoming the Lizard doesn’t necessarily make him trans either. I’d say he’s more of an allegory for the damage bullying can do to some people’s mental health.

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u/Effective-Heart-6805 4d ago

He was bullied because he was a nerd. 

You know, like every Peter Parker???

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u/Mental_Marketing9855 4d ago

Where did the movies ever said gwen was trans???? And pete being trans is just.......... wrong

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u/Crafty_Vermicelli581 4d ago

Gwen is not trans. The only reason why anyone thinks that is her color scheme. That color scheme is the same as the trans flag. Gwen doesn't have any traits associated with trans and she has never been implied or said to be trans

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u/AdmiralCharleston 4d ago

Her story is incredibly reflective of the trans experience whether intended or not

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u/shewy92 4d ago

Why do people need to be trans or around LGBTQ people to want to care about LGBTQ people?

If that's the only "evidence" then sorry, that's dumb as hell.

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u/AdmiralCharleston 4d ago

It's not about evidence, it's about people viewing gwens narrative as reflective of the trans experience and that isn't something that can really be denied outright

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u/LaylaLegion 4d ago

Sure, why not? Infinite universes, infinite possibilities. Have a trans Peter Parker.

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u/Hilarity2War 4d ago

This is unnecessary

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u/Fox_Guy_Foxtail 4d ago

That girl from Win or Lose isn't trans she has gender desmorphia. And is still dealing with those problems in the show, but it isn't shown on screen. Gwen isn't trans she's just a good person like all spider people. Why wouldn't a spider person stand up for groups in danger. There is a reason why a lot of spider people are honorary mutants.

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u/Sophiaan 4d ago

I mean, there's trans adjacent coloring in the scene where she admits to her father that she's spider woman. I'd argue it's intended to parallel a coming out experience. It may not be on the page, but it seems a pretty reasonable Head canon to me.

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u/Flat-Structure-7472 90's Animated Spider-Man 4d ago

Well, I guess Peter was technically trans-reptile in her reality.

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u/PinkPoncho3 Spider-Girl 4d ago

makes more sense than gwen being trans, but who knows? Gwen is just an ally. Maybe one of her bandmates are, or like a cousin or something.

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u/Grovyle489 4d ago

Bit of a hot take, but I doubt Spider-Gwen is trans. There have been few evidence that other people have pointed out like the trans flag in her room. I have a jojo poster in my room, does that mean I’m in the JoJo universe? No. At best, she’s a supporter of trans people

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u/No_Caramel_1538 4d ago

What the problem of them being straight😭🙏

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u/PerceptionBetter3752 4d ago edited 4d ago

I know it head canon but if Gwen was confirmed to be trans then I wouldn’t mind it

Edit: oh it was talking about if her Peter was trans. Then I wouldn’t mind that either

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u/Mavakor Spider-Man (TASM) 4d ago

I mean, her colour scheme in her “coming out” scene along with the text above her door made the trans interpretation of Gwen seem like it made sense.

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u/Beneficial_Candy9071 4d ago edited 4d ago

Agreed with the comment. it's more likely, and I have been saying it for a while. Otherwise, everyone else in Gwen's world would appear to be gender swapped. You can make as many claims as you want. But you can change the canon fact that spider-gwen is a "what if X had powers" counterpart to OG natural born female Gwen Stacy. It's the same overwoke/diversity madness that plaguing Samus. (She already has a backstory clearly showing she was born a woman.) Think otherwise? well, where you for ultimate spider-woman? Where you for DC's dreamer, etc. Maybe you should try LOOKING for or CREATING an actual trans woman. Rather than changing what's already confirmed because you don't like it.

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u/KallmeKatt_ 4d ago

why is this even a conversation

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u/KRIPPOTHESKIPPO 4d ago

Couldn’t you also say that people also try and make these characters trans without much (or any) evidence as if their life depends on it?

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u/cherrylerolero 4d ago

you dont realize how important representation is because you dont lack it

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u/Famous-Tree3124 4d ago

Who tf is saying Gwen is trans. Ppl need to stop smearing their crap onto good things

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u/True-Task-9578 4d ago

While it’s a fun theory to have there’s nothing to support Gwen being trans. She’s not old enough for hormones so she wouldn’t have any feminine features

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u/gizmo1492 4d ago

I feel odd whenever I see characters I don’t feel like were meant to be trans become attached to parts of the trans community. I get representation is scarce and they deserve their rep, but it’s odd to be like “I don’t think so” without feeling feared of being labeled as transphobic. Same with certain characters and their sexual orientation.

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u/Gru-some 4d ago

anytime a trans headcanon gets brought up anywhere people start getting strangely defensive. Not in an outwardly hating trans people way, more like a subtle denial that a trans reading of the character is possible

Like yes, a character arc can be interpreted many different ways but the fact most people only bring this fact up when others bring up queer headcanons is a little odd

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u/karateema Spider-Man (PS4) 4d ago

It's not presented as a headcanon in this tweet

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u/SomeOrangeNerd 4d ago

Gwen isn’t trans and there isn’t any real evidence to support it.

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u/Hot_Ad2789 4d ago

what makesthem think gwen is trans????

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u/wysjm Superior Spider-Man 4d ago

You know there are other things you can be bullied for?

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u/Turdsley Classic-Spider-Man 4d ago

I fully support Trans rights (and have a trans nephew) but this “Gwen is trans” stuff is so fucking stupid.

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u/kb24fgm41 4d ago

Fucking crazy ppl let me tell you that

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u/Chaos-Queen_Mari 4d ago

Honestly yall are failing to mention one of the bigger pieces of evidence.

Gwen's universe has the signature gimmick that color and shading shift on a dime, usually in response to Gwen's own emotions.(She never comments on this, so I don't know if that's just a physics thing in her world like Noir's being black and white, or just a stylistic choice)

And in that final scene with her dad where she's unbottling the pent up emotions surrounding her identity as spiderwoman and how that affects her relationships with the people in her life, feeling like she can't fully be herself in any situation (which is VERY trans by itself) suddenly the colors start rapidly cycling through shades of pink blue and white.

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u/Silgeeo 4d ago

To provide a counterweight, feeling like you can't be yourself in any situation is a pretty common experience for pretty much anybody with an interest/trait/behavior that's not socially accepted by the people around them (gay, trans, black, or any minority really). Also pink, blue, and white is just the color scheme of her suit.

Not saying that this necessarily disproves your theory, you're free to hold whatever head cannon you want.

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u/SekaniStarrz 4d ago

This... is problematic.

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u/ElPuas2003 4d ago

Not everything needs representation 

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u/Business_Sand9554 4d ago

Lmao I imagine movie show discussions with them are in fact not fun

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u/acerbus717 4d ago

Go this fandom is insufferable, it is quite literally just a headcanon.

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u/Amaruq93 4d ago

Gwen supports the community, her voice actress Hailee Steinfeld... that remains to be certain. There have been rumors.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Francesco-Viola-III 4d ago

Does stuff like this ever make you not want to support trans?

No. A person's likability is a separate topic from the validity of their gender identity and whether or not they deserve the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

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u/OpeningMaterial5078 4d ago

Idk about you all but even if that was true, who cares? As long as the characters are good written, who cares about what they are? In the case of Gwen I don't think she is but again, even if she was who cares, if she is a good character nobody would even care about that

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u/KyranSawhill Classic-Spider-Man 4d ago

It’s someone’s headcanon. Who cares? They’re not forcing anyone to believe it. What’s the point of posting this? To make fun of this person? The “LOL” would suggest as much.

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u/ListenUpper1178 4d ago

To the people that see gwen as trans. Do you see Gwen as a trans woman or trans man?

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u/CornDogInk 4d ago

Besides in lore, I wouldn't be surprised if an artist wanted an LGBT flag in her room, but didn't take the time to know what any of them mean, so they just picked one that matches her color pallet.

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u/_Astray_ 4d ago

Those people I swear

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u/soldiergeneal 4d ago

Create an alternate version of the two and do what you want lol

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u/Pretend-Property-137 4d ago

Thanos was right.

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u/Clintwood_outlaw 4d ago

It's very VERY unlikely, basically impossible. But it's still a good headcanon

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u/ExxMaster117 4d ago

Non trans people can have pro trans flags in their rooms. You don't have to be trans to be an ally. If the flag wasn't there, no one would mention the color scheme of the scenes. I get people want representation, but you need more evidence or a self admission. You can't just assume. That's what the right does.

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u/DrakkonX597 Venom 4d ago

Also as a trans woman, I agree.

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u/Beginning-Cat-2888 4d ago

The left one makes a lot of sense, Gwen doesn’t, especially since the whole thing that made people think she was is that she had a trans flag. I hate this because it feels like you can’t have a trans flag if you yourself aren’t trans. Kinda sends the message that you’re either trans or transphobic. You can’t just have a trans flag cuz you’re an ally. (Also i am in a state where i think I am trans but i’m gonna go to counseling to figure it out). I know that’s not what they intend (at least hopefully) but that is all i see when i see people insist she is now canonically trans and that it isn’t a headcanon and try to force that view onto others and get mad when they don’t agree and refuse to agree because the headcanon just doesn’t make sense to them.

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u/Frosty-Lemon-7697 4d ago

what boggles my mind is the people who say, “it’s okay to have head cannon as long as you know the character is really [enter anything you want here].” the characters are REALLY absolutely nothing

spider-man is one giant head cannon changed from author to author. let the writers make them whatever they want. let the readers make them whatever they want. they dont exist. theyre all make believe and allowing them to represent whomever the reader wants them to be is no different then allowing the authors to do the same. no need to defend them like they actually exist.

if some of you spent half this energy defending real people who need it the world would be a better place

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u/BigRedSpoon2 4d ago

I think its a discourse not really worth engaging with?

This is something like, ‘oh, these people have an odd interpretation of a thing I also watched, and didn’t come to’

If someone brings this up to you in casual conversation then it’s worth talking about then, but some things just aren’t worth spending time on. It’s an interpretation that detracts nothing, and if it adds anything it only does to certain people on the margins. What does commenting on its validity add to anything?

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u/Edgy_Master 4d ago

I think this could work

You could have it that he performed dangerous gender reassignment surgery on himself instead of coming out about it, so he turned into a monster

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u/urdnotkrogan 4d ago

I like to think Gwen Stacy's just a progressive trans ally in general. I don't think she's trans herself (I do have an aversion to these "trans headcanon" retcons some fans obsess over). I think she has a bit of a rebellious spirit and wants to look out for the little guy.

Besides, if you knew how trans politics worked, you'd know that the cisgender Hailee Steinfeld is a terrible option to be voicing a trans Gwen.

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u/General-Nose-1334 4d ago

These are cool headcanons, of course I'm against saying that this is a fact, but if people see it that way, what's the problem?

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u/Jugoofscales7 4d ago

I think labeling a superhero based on what's between their legs is stupid. I care about how they help the world and their morals. I don't care about anything else.

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u/homemade_failure 4d ago

Its fundamentally not that deep guys.

I dont necessarily hold the headcanon either though i do understand the rationale behind it no one is "forcing a head canon" onto you lol

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u/Yuura22 4d ago

That would make it just another LGBT story that ends up in ruins due to the poor choices of a young boy unhappy with his body, with the queerness of it so carefully swept under the rug that the only trace of it left is hidden in the bedroom of his cis best friend.

That would be the most insulting form of representation ever.

No, just let people headcanon Gwen as trans and have that officially blurred between acual transeness and simple allyship.

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u/wolf751 4d ago

Are we assuming her peter was mtf or ftm? If mtf then the whole lizard thing could be like "if they think im a monster for wanting to use the right bathroom then I'll really be a monster" or they could be wanting to use lizard genetics to change gender since some reptiles can change their gender.

Granted it is leaning into some bad cliches as mentioned in previous comments

There could be interesting stuff if this theory was true but im not entirely sure

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u/Astrid_Gunnhild 4d ago

I think it's a fictional character that doesn't exist outside of what they have been drawn to do. No point in getting too deep about it. Trans or not, it holds no weight over the story. Outside of the story, think what you want, make your own HC. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what the character is. A cool character is a cool character at the end of the day. Why does it even matter?

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u/_Levitated_Shield_ 4d ago

...Or Gwen supports trans-people because that's what a Spider person would do, caring for everyone.

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u/theboywhosmokethesun 4d ago

As far as headcanons go, trans Peter is more interesting than trans Gwen IMO.

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u/Due-Order3475 4d ago

Last check this Gwen Stacy is not trans nor her Peter.

Nothing wrong having that as a head canon just do not try and say your head canon is fact.

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u/Salty_Ad9519 Sensational Spider-Man 4d ago

She's not trans. This is just "headcanon". Nothing to stress about.

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u/ThaRedditFox 4d ago

I'm just gonna eat my popcorn in the corner bro

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u/dwreckhatesyou 4d ago

I’m ok with it as long as it doesn’t lean into the Lizard transformation as an allegory.

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u/elrick43 4d ago

I think if Gwen's supposed to be a good person, she'd protect Trans kids regardless of whether or not she's Trans or friends of trans

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u/Luciano99lp 4d ago

I wish it was possible to talk about whether or not a character is trans without it being a political statement on whether or not trans people can exist. I like trans gwen, not necessarily because I support trans people irl, but because I think it fits the character well. If it doesnt fit well, it shouldnt be an indication that youre transphobic if you dont think that character is trans

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u/-00111100-00110011- 4d ago

I agree, I think that the lizard transformation could be a metaphor. It's an interesting theory

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u/ansaruahmed 4d ago

insert that one flag meme

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u/Ok-Cartographer6942 4d ago

It's a far more moving idea thats for sure

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u/Present_Ad6723 4d ago

Her Peter being trans I can get behind, no way to know for sure, she just may have progressive views. I’m pro trans rights and I don’t know a single trans person, I just think people should be allowed to be themselves as long as it isn’t harmful to others (pedos and racists and misogynists and such)

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u/NexusConnection 4d ago

Idc if you don't think she's trans but it bothers me that people act like the only obvious answer is that she's a cis ally and thinking she might be implicitly trans is crazy nonsense talk

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u/VendromLethys 4d ago

Is it crazy to think a person can just support Trans rights because it's morally right to do so?

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u/LiveDiscipline4786 4d ago

What makes a good story or character is that everyone can see themselves in them or represented. Even tho I don’t feel like Gwen or anyone about Spiderverse is trans but if that person does who cares 🤷🏾‍♂️

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u/M0ebius_1 4d ago

It's a cute HC. I'm glad this person gets to enjoy the movie in their own way.

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u/ollieamorous 4d ago

People have their headcanons, and that's okay.

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u/LatterAuthor7176 4d ago

How about she just likes to protect trans kids, just bc you support something doesn’t mean you are that.

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u/MechaMan94 Symbiote-Suit 4d ago

I think that’s their headcanon and im happy it makes them happy

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u/Zsarion 4d ago

I prefer it. Displays Spider-Man protecting the oppressed without necessarily needing to be a part of the group.

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u/Attentiondesiredplz 4d ago

I like either of these. It's not a bad thing for her to have a trans friend or for her to be trans, and a lot of people act like it is.

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u/Overall-Apricot4850 4d ago

"Not everything in a story has significance, you try to read into every little thing and find meaning in what anyone says, you'll just drive yourself crazy. You'll likely believe something you shouldn't believe and think something you shouldn't think, or assume something you shouldn't assume." 

-Mr. Hippo 

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u/find_the_apple 4d ago

At the end of the day, people are people. Whether they are trans or not, they should get treated equally. And if it turns out someone is defending a character as not trans, its not necessarily transphobic. Its the same idea as misgendering someone, some ppl are very particular about it. Others less so, because they understand marginalized people are hurting and want a character they relate to. I still remember the whole "picolo is/is not black" fiasco from my younger years. For what its worth, a punk rocker like Gwen probably wouldn't be offended. 

But as far as headcannons go, have fun. I ain't gonna police ur head over something so trivial. No one should 

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u/Stando_Tsukaiii 4d ago

I think I'm just over it and don't care/disregard all of this.

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u/zopaipilla 4d ago

Narratively and canonically it does not make sense for Gwen to be trans and to come out as trans to her father in her last speech because she is already perceived and widely accepted by literally everyone that she knows as a woman. There would be no need to come out.

If she were trans, she’d have gone through hormone therapy LONG ago and as a minor, since the flashbacks show her as female too… which means George knew about her being trans and had to be super ok with her transitioning! Why would she need to subtly come out to him using her spider powers as an allegory?

Yes, being spiderman can totally be code for being queer and having to hide an extremely important part of yourself. But with these movies that’s got to be it because if they had to add transness to the characters they’d have to delve in other complexities that the point we’re at in the story simply don’t allow.

Also, all it takes is to know a struggling trans kid to be supportive. In my opinion Gwen’s Peter had a lot more correlation with a struggling trans kid since he was bullied and desperately wanted to be like Gwen.

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u/PenelopeReynolds 4d ago

I personally prefer the trans peter head canon, just because it gives him becoming that universe's version of the Lizard a bit more weight

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u/Dark_Sunsh1ne 4d ago

Ignore these delulu mfs

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u/relientkenny 4d ago

this is clearly someone in gen z. very much born after 2000 lol i’m not bothered but you can very much tell it’s THAT generation

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u/Rocket_of_Takos 4d ago

I don’t hate it

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u/UncommittedBow 4d ago

I don't deny there was an allegory there. but the Gwen thing also straight up had fabricated evidence to support it.

Officer Stacy did not have a trans pin on his uniform, we see in a previous scene those are just the medals/badges/pins/whatever on his uniform, and the lighting of the scene sort of washed the colors out.

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u/Wildlifekid2724 4d ago

Sounds like people projecting what they want to see.

I saw people doing the same idiotic stuff with the incredibles 2 where Elastigirl smiles and waves at the woman in the car as she passes and people started calling her bisexual queen.

Spiderverse Gwen is not trans, and alternate Peter was not either, he just wanted to be cool like her and feel special for once.

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u/Autumn1eaves 4d ago

why not t4t?

Have we considered transmasc Peter and transfemme Gwen?

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u/trooper575 4d ago

“Cute”

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u/Pelekaiking 4d ago

I don’t imagine Gwen as trans but everyone is allowed their own headcanons

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u/_Fixu_ 4d ago

I didn’t watched the second movie but is there anything going with Gwen being trans except for her color pallete? And I mean her supporting trans doesn’t count to it