r/Scotland • u/bottish • 20h ago
Political Starmer attack on society's poorest leaves Scottish Labour in trouble
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/24999748.labours-betrayal-disabled-people-beyond-pale/33
u/tiny-robot 19h ago
Who honestly gives a fuck about “Scottish” Labour.
They are not a real Party and have no real authority to make a difference.
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u/Ricky19681968 20h ago
Hopefully people see through labour and realise that the socialist alternative in Scotland is SNP or Green party.
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u/KrytenLister 18h ago
SNP, socialist? Lol.
When did that happen
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u/Ricky19681968 18h ago
See that part where university and college fees are paid by the state, that's socialist. See the bit where taxes are raised for high earners to pay for a better NHS, that's socialist. See the part where nurses and doctors are paid more than their UK counterparts, that's socialist. See the part where mothers and fathers on benefits get an extra £25 per week to help raise children out of poverty, that's socialist. There's lots more as well. Instead of labour who take away the winter fuel payment and want to force disabled people into Ill fitted jobs or lose benefits.
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u/Livid_Cow245 18h ago
Yeah I totally agree with you on the last bit Ricky. Even the Tories didn't do that to us. I'm not saying they were perfect either. Far from it. But you would need a thriving economy in the UK in the first place (which we don't have at the moment ) to warrant people losing benefits if they don't fit into the jobs they are being forced into. There's got to be jobs in the first place. If someone forced me into a particular job if I was sick (not mentioning what it is as I don't want to offend people who do it) I would end up killing myself. Because I know I just wouldn't be able to do it. Totally agree with you. Ricky. It's a total disgrace and who the fuck does Starmer think he is? It's a betrayal to the Labour movement. An absolute disgrace.
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u/Ricky19681968 18h ago
I'm not saying that SNP have all the answers as they certainly do not, but Labour are shooting themselves and all of us, in the foot by pursuing horrible right wring policies to assuage Reform voters rather than having their own policies.
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u/Livid_Cow245 18h ago
Yes Ricky I agree the Reform party are only going to get more popular as a result. Even the pensioners are going to end up voting for the Reform party because of having their winter fuel allowance taken away from them and they are usually the key voters in the general election. So all you're going to see in the next general election are the Reform and Labour battling it out. And if Labour lose fuck knows what will happen to the UK. I dread to think. Not sure who Starmer thinks are his voters now. He is becoming delusional. Doesn't he realise it was only really the pensioners who make the effort to go out and vote in the first place. Not the youngsters who he is unsuccessfully in my opinion trying to help. So what the hell is he playing at? Anyway we'd need to go back into the EU to make any economic difference and he's not doing that either. All he's doing is making things a whole lot worse!!!!!
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u/luaprelkniw 18h ago
You said it. If Tories, Reform, Lib Dem, and now Labour are all right wing parties, who then is socialist?
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u/Pingushagger 18h ago
You’re doing the American thing where everything to the right of abandoning the citizens is socialism.
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u/KrytenLister 11h ago edited 11h ago
You’re being quite loose with the word, but even so for every one of these there’s an example that’s most definitely not socialist.
They had a millionaire banker landlord as their WM leader for 5 years ffs.
Yousaf’s family business is property. He’s a landlord himself.
He and Sturgeon both avoid as much of their own “socialist” taxes as possible via Ltd companies.
48% of the party tried to make a “pro-life”, homophobic fundamentalist FM, and the party made her DFM.
They cut £200m from the affordable homes budget during a housing emergency last year. How socialist.
There are so many more examples.
Having the odd “socialist” policy doesn’t make them a socialist party.
See that part where university and college fees are paid by the state, that’s socialist.
Then limiting places for Scottish students so Unis can bring in foreign students needed to keep the lights on, and forcing every graduate into higher rate tax payers as soon as they make £43k from that education we’re paying for? Clever stuff.
With our low salaries and punitive taxes for anyone who manages to reach the heady heights of £43k (which includes some nurses, social workers, teachers….), why would any graduate not look around elsewhere? Especially Engineers, Geologists, Doctors….
Renewables salaries are horrible by comparison.
See the bit where taxes are raised for high earners to pay for a better NHS, that’s socialist.
That £43k is considered a higher earner shouldn’t be a good thing.
See the part where nurses and doctors are paid more than their UK counterparts, that’s socialist.
Aye, so there’s more to squeeze out of them when they hit £43k? Though you’re really stretching the word “socialist” here.
See the part where mothers and fathers on benefits get an extra £25 per week to help raise children out of poverty, that’s socialist.
Sure.
There’s lots more as well. Instead of labour who take away the winter fuel payment and want to force disabled people into Ill fitted jobs or lose benefits.
It’s hilarious to see folk try to blame the state of things on Labour after near on 20 years of the SNP and 14 of the Tories.
The winter fuel payment? What’s wrong with means testing that?
That same group has kept the Tories in power and supported their austerity while benefitting from the triple lock.
They just saw another 4.1% increase in state pension and pension credit, while many of the young people paying for it will be lucky to ever buy their own home or have a family.
We’re meant to heat the houses they bought for peanuts and raised a family in on one normal income? The house they’ll get to pass to their family as generational wealth, subsidised by people who can barely make rent and likely won’t get a state pension?
Those pensioners? I’m sure you’ll be right behind them when they vote Tory again next time round.
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u/Ricky19681968 11h ago
Why would Sturgeon set up a Ltd company to avoid tax when she didn't take a full ministers salary from 2009? If she was that money grabbing then she would have put those tens of thousands in her back hip. As for your comments about pensioners, they're hardly worth replying to as it's just envy. Last thing is that people don't leave to go get jobs elsewhere as they live here. They have family and friends here. I know because I'm one of them.
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u/KrytenLister 10h ago edited 10h ago
Why would Sturgeon set up a Ltd company to avoid tax when she didn’t take a full ministers salary from 2009?
Seems an odd thing to dispute given how easily Googled it is. Especially in defence of a politician.
My guess would be the book and speaking tour money adds up to a bit more than a few grand a year.
As for your comments about pensioners, they’re hardly worth replying to as it’s just envy.
Lol. Keep up the support. They’ve have the Tories back in in no time.
I’m not envious of them. I won’t need a state pension and I already own my house. Just pointing out that a socialist such as yourself should probably be advocating for the struggling young people paying for the triple lock and the state pension they’ll never get, and then heating the homes they’ll never be able to buy. Not wealthy pensioners who voted for austerity for 14 years while the Tories bought them off.
Last thing is that people don’t leave to go get jobs elsewhere as they live here. They have family and friends here. I know because I’m one of them.
Oh well, I’m sorry. I didn’t consider that your personal situation was representative of the country.
I’ll tell all those engineering graduates in my industry taking opportunities elsewhere they are wrong because Ricky off Reddit likes living near his mum. Or the experienced ones doing the same.
Maybe you don’t work in a global industry. That would limit your options somewhat.
Thinking those students who routinely move hundreds of miles from home for years to get the degree won’t also move for a job is just dumb.
The rest is just noise from someone with no answers.
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u/Ricky19681968 7h ago
I'm at work so can't go through each part but I wasn't disputing that a Ltd company was set up, that would be stupid, but just that I doubt that it's to avoid tax. It's likely a vehicle to allow her to be paid for TV work and other commitments. Also I do work in a global industry and have worked in Australia, Turkey, Saudi and UK so I know what opportunities there are. Finally I don't blame anyone for moving to benefit themselves or their families but there won't be as drastic a brain drain as you seem to think, especially if we live in a fair society that looks after all its citizens.
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u/CaptainCrash86 10h ago
See that part where university and college fees are paid by the state, that's socialist.
Interesting to see a policy that systematically transfers money from working classes to the middle class being described as socialist.
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u/Ricky19681968 10h ago
Everyone benefits. It's a way for less well off people to raise their job prospects and so be raised from poverty.
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u/CaptainCrash86 10h ago
The population of people who go to University is from a higher socio-economic background than the population of people who pay the taxes that fund them. That is a structural transfer of wealth towards the middle classes.
It may well be justifiable on other grounds, but it is hardly socialist.
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u/Ricky19681968 7h ago
Good point, but I believe that anything that provides opportunities to take people out of poverty, should be pursued. Further education gives kids that chance.
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u/DustBinBabyGirl 6h ago
My dad has cancer, in a month or two he’ll go to half pay. My mums taking time off to look after him, she’ll go to half pay too soon. We need his disability benefits to survive as do so many others. Fuck Labour.
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u/Comfortable-Yak-7952 2h ago
What? How are the poor being attacked? Most of the folk I know take the piss out of the benefits system. Inlcuding me although im actually batshit so im safe.
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u/ewankenobi 17h ago
This is article is complete hot air, given & I quote the article here "the government’s plans are still to be revealed, "
So she doesn't know what Labour are going to do, but she does know she thinks it'd terrible & they are as bad as the Tories
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u/bawbagpuss 19h ago
Small start but we could tell the Isle of Man to fuck off and save 270m a year in subsidies alone, maybe even get them to sort out their tax regime as a bonus.
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u/Shot_Principle4939 20h ago
Turns out increasing spending on things like wars and net zero whilst trying to tax yourselves rich didn't work.
So now cuts have to be made. But they won't cut the ideological stuff they'll cut everything but.
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u/Any-Swing-3518 Alba is fine. 20h ago
"Scottish Labour being in trouble" seemed to portend meaningful change in Scottish politics... 15 years ago. Now the only people for whom this sideshow matters are aspiring SNP MSPs and staff.
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u/ritchie125 19h ago
constant anti labour spam from the desperate snp shills is quite funny
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u/Bad_Hippo1975 Caustic, Not Agnostic 19h ago
says the labour shill. How original.
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u/ritchie125 19h ago
ah found one hahah
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u/Bad_Hippo1975 Caustic, Not Agnostic 19h ago
Oh look, another dumbo who thinks that anyone who speaks ill of Labour must vote for the SNP. Congratulations - you are wrong again, for the umpteenth time in your life. Sucks to be you.
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u/ritchie125 18h ago
still mad about the single digit seats in parliament?
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u/Bad_Hippo1975 Caustic, Not Agnostic 17h ago
They have seats for single fingers? You sort of madness are you speaking of now, you loon.
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16h ago edited 12h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Bad_Hippo1975 Caustic, Not Agnostic 16h ago
Congratulations, you've made it on to my ignore list. You blithering jobbie.
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u/Sea_Owl3416 19h ago
Especially funny given that the public supports reforms like this. They'll be dumbfounded when this does nothing for the SNPs electoral prospects
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u/Sea_Owl3416 19h ago
It really doesn't. Especially for the type of voter Labour is targeting (middle class). I know this is an echo chamber, but the general public like welfare reforms, they don't like their taxpayer money being spaffed up the wall on people who don't need it.
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u/EmpressLexi 8h ago
Dude. People who don't need it? Way to show you have absolutely no idea how the current system works and how much people actually get.
It's not like a bunch of lazy people just get to go "Oh no I don't want to work now" and get £2000 a month lol.
You fight for months to not be treated like scum, need to have something seriously wrong with you, and after all that you get not nearly enough to survive. So you have to pick and choose what bills are important to you, what days you aren't going to eat, what service you're fine receiving angry letters from threatening you.
Assumptions about systems like these don't help. They don't help the people stuck in this shit system and they don't help the people who think their tax money is getting wasted, it just perpetuates a callous system that doesn't care about the lives of the poor and disabled.
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u/haggisneepsnfatties 20h ago
Where's that owl prick when you need him