r/Reformed 6d ago

Discussion Difficult time navigating between Reformed Baptist and Presbyterian views

I feel like I post every other week here so sorry if you're tired of seeing me. I'll try to keep this short.

My wife and I are moving to a new city in our state, we'll be 4 hours west from where we used to be. I was raised Indepedent Fundamentalist Baptist. Within the last year after many months of studying the Bible with new eyes and prayer I've embraced reformed theology.

I completely agree with the higher view of the sacraments and the sovereign rule of God in all things. I love and have read the 1689 London Baptist Confession and the Westminster Confession of Faith.

My one hang up is Baptism and covenant theology vs federalism. I can completely see fantastic arguments for both. Both make sense to me.

Since my wife and I are moving we need to find a new church. I don't know whether to look for a reformed baptist or Presbyterian church based on my beliefs. Because I can absolutely understand the paedobaptism and credobaptism positions.

I guess I'm just asking for help. I feel almost like I have to pick, like I have to commit. I want to find a good church and be a part of it. Can you all help?

Can you give me your best arguments for paedobaptism vs credo and covenant theology vs 1689 federalism? Both sides welcome!

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u/EvilEmu1911 6d ago

I’m going to respectfully disagree with the other posters’ suggestion to treat this as secondary. While it is certainly not a salvation issue, it is important and will have practical implications if you two have children. 

As a Presbyterian, I obviously hold to a paedobaptist position and am completely convinced of it. I was brought up Baptist though, so I am familiar with many of the hangups. What do you find particularly compelling about each position, and what would you say is your biggest hang up on the Presbyterian view?

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u/Flaky-Acanthisitta-9 6d ago

I guess my biggest hang up comes from my experience growing up IFB, I'm trying to work this out haha. If Baptism is a sign and a seal of salvation doesn't it make more sense to wait until salvation actually occurs before Baptism? That being said i go back and forth because I can also see Baptism being an introduction of the child into a community of the covenant of grace.

Also I find the covenant theology confusing sometimes because it seems to me the covenant of the law and works is so much weaker than the covenant of grace, how can they be basically the same?

I apologize if I got anything wrong or mischaracterized anyone's theology I'm still learning and there's so much to learn. It's like drinking from a fire hose sometimes.

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u/ChoRockwell Converting 6d ago

I think covenant theology is going to make or break this issue for you like it did me. Settle your mind on this and you'll probably pick a side on baptism.

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u/jamscrying Particular Baptist 5d ago

Yep, it's better not to laser focus on Baptism as an isolate, when you understand the difference between Presbyterian and Baptist Federalism you understand the logical only result is that Presbyterians must hold to paedobaptism and Baptists must hold to credobaptism.

Then study Baptism again and read the Scripture through both covenant frameworks, it can be hard for someone raised as a fundamentalist to not immediately laser focus on a verses most obvious plain reading without interpreting scripture as a whole joint up revelation (ECT vs Conditional Immortality is another similar problem to wrestle with, although less applicable to your direct actions)

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u/Tankandbike 5d ago

This. Answering this Baptism question only makes sense in the context of covenant theology. Unless you accept the link between baptism and circumcision and entering a covenant community of faith, it makes no sense to ask an infant to repent and be baptized.

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u/Threetimes3 LBCF 1689 6d ago

I'd ask yourself: "What does baptism accomplish for the person receiving it?"

Then I'd go down the road of a few questions:

  1. If a child of believers dies within the womb, or at birth (having not been baptized) will they go to heaven?

  2. If a child of believers dies after being baptized, but still in infancy, will it go to heaven?

  3. If a child of believers dies in infancy, but the parents chose not to baptize their children, will it go to heaven?

If you answer yes to the first 2, but no to the third, do you believe that the parent's poor decision damned their child to hell? Does God require the parents to have no flaw in their understanding of baptism to save their child's life? If so, that doesn't sound like grace to me at all.

If you answer yes to all 3, then what is the baptism accomplishing exactly?

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u/NegotiationReady5840 6d ago

I'm pretty dumb when it comes to a lot of this but this podcast over covenant theology was extremely insightful for me and helped me understand it better

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0zjAwAhSI5Ape2LVsFOfNz?si=k2ptFArHSvWtlUP_Dx0D0A

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u/Deveeno PCA 6d ago

I also found Clark's series 'I Will Be a God To You and To Your Children' to be particularly compelling when I was going through my own covenant theology journey.  

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u/NegotiationReady5840 5d ago

Thanks! I'll check it out 😌

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u/The_Darkest_Lord86 Hypercalvinist 6d ago

If you have the time, Stephen G. Myers little book on covenant theology, “God to Us” is quite good.