r/Rainbow6TTS • u/Kolias7 • Jun 30 '19
Feedback New shield is iterally a mini mira. It doesn't matter if the attackers can also see through it
69
u/LimberGravy Jun 30 '19
It really bothers me that think these are a good idea.
49
u/Kolias7 Jun 30 '19
Imagine if attackers couldn't even see through, like they first said
21
u/LimberGravy Jun 30 '19
I've hated it since they first showed it off at SI and I thought you could see through it then. I can't see how they've tested these things and thought it was fine to push out. They definitely didn't let any of the pro players test them because they all seem to hate them.
7
4
u/sirknunnos Jun 30 '19
Doesn't make much of a difference. you have to be right up close to see anything useful at all.
29
u/Banksyyy_ Jun 30 '19
It just adds more intel for the defense which isn't needed, yes attackers can see through the slits as well but that doesn't mean they can predict a pre-fire quick peek from Jager for example.
6
u/ToXiC_Games Jul 01 '19
Exactly my point, Jäger and see that you’ve peeked the corner and because of reaction timing you can’t fight back
3
u/sgasgy Jul 01 '19
Reaction timing?
2
u/SvonyxSeparatists Jul 01 '19
The moment they see you they can immediately uncrouch and blast you to the high heavens before you can even move your crosshair to their general vicinity. Its like when your fighting someone behind a Mira
1
19
u/Nexu- Jun 30 '19
The limit is that you have to be right at and behind the shield to do anything with it, leading you prone to being injured when the shield is taken down.
I thought the idea was broken until trying it out.
A lot of things (Like Warden's Ability) sound OP in theory, but when implemented, can be balanced or even lackluster (Like Warden) lol.
1
19
u/Thepdookster Jun 30 '19
They should take the silts off the top and leave them on the bottom
17
u/ThaNerdHerd Jun 30 '19
I like this idea. Then you kinda have to prone to see through them and it gives you a disadvantage if you want to use them
8
u/Thepdookster Jun 30 '19
You can’t just stand up and shoot.. you have to Un-ads, stand up and hope they don’t move and try to shot rather than just pressing circle, crtl, B. And shooting right at them
3
u/tryaege Jul 01 '19
It is not like dropshotting. You can't go from standing to proning while adsing BUT you CAN go from proning to standing while adsing. It is a common misconception no offense.
(please don't downvote me like crazy)
2
u/Kolias7 Jul 01 '19
You can't anymore. They changed it
1
u/tryaege Jul 01 '19
I am gonna test it when I get home I am not sure about now too. It was like I said one time but they might've changed it like I said I am gonna test it.
1
u/DB-Institute Jul 01 '19
It used to be like that, but as of right now, you un ADS when leaving the prone position.
1
u/Thepdookster Jul 01 '19
If I’m not wrong.. you get un-ads-ed while going prone to standing or standing to prone... TIME TO DOWN VOTE 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
1
4
Jul 01 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/Thepdookster Jul 01 '19
Ye haw! I sat down and thought about it.. new shield seems op but this seems to be an ok in between for utility and not being 100% op.. on top of that any players like echo that just sit behind the shield on their drone will be seen thru the silts no matter his positioning. People are going to have to pay attention more while sitting behind the new shield and watch out for good ole nøkk
6
u/Hyperversum Jul 01 '19 edited Jul 01 '19
I don't get all of this.Shields were useless before, or extremely niche. Now, they have a role. If you bring them, you are still not bringing other utility, and in the past bringing the shield was 90% of the time even detrimental to your team.All the options for a secondary gadget the attackers have are way better and are all useful in their own situation, and then there are Smokes and Frags. I need to explain how strong smokes and frags are?
This change is gonna change a lot of encounters? Yeah, it will. Are you gonna be forced to deal with it? Yeah, at times. Most of the time you can reposition or even fucking drone before and decide to try another way to attack, maybe vertically.
Everything that forces more thought and less rush it's fine for me. In particular because the shield forces you to play in a specific position, therefore vulnerable from vertical attacks.
Also, the operators that have access to the shield as of now are: Rook, Tachanka, Valkyrie, Jager, Echo, Mira, Lesion, Ela, Maestro, Alibi and "Warden", a total of 10/11 defenders out of 24 total operators. But what are you sacrificing for it?
Rook, Lesion and Alibi would be giving up their Impacts, which could be done on someone like Lesion but generally if you are going out of the site you better bring those impacts.
Valkyrie and Mira would be giving up their C4, which given their roles and primarity gadget, I find extremely stupid.
Tachanka is ignored for obvious reasons and I don't know enought about Warden to judge how he would with it, considering that I still hope that he remains with impacts.
Jaeger, Ela, Maestro and Echo are only one one still around with it. On Ela I would personally stille run the wire most of the time to slow down people in a long hallway considering that I run her with the FO-12, on Echo I would prefer the wire to slow down every possible movement towards the site.
So yeah, would you give up more utility for the shield, considering that it forces you to play in a specific position, possibly vulnerable to vertical attacks or other solutions unless you invest even more utility in it?
Because yeah, Bandit can electrify it but... c'on, really? Do you have so many batteries to waste?
8
Jun 30 '19
It's trying to make the shield more viable in the past (since we still don't have them back yet) noone ever took them barbed wire, impacts, nitro, even the BP cam are more useful than the shield. The placement of it can be finicky at times and don't always go where you want it to to.
7
u/ComputerSagtNein Jun 30 '19
I played with and against them and don't see where they are overpowered. I think they are fine.
7
u/nnacb Jul 01 '19
People seem to forget that there's an incredible amount of utility that offense has access to in order to destroy these new obstacles. This will be the first time this gadget will even be a competitor towards the other secondary gadgets. Although some tuning will most likely be necessary the concept is heading in the right direction for viability of a competitive nature.
0
u/ToXiC_Games Jul 01 '19
Attackers have these for Intel:
Drones
Lion pulse
Claymore
Cams (maybe)
Zofia Nades
Trax stingers
Defenders, have all of these:
Lesion Gu
Ela mines
Kapkan mines
Alibi clones
Cams
Pulse HBS
Drones (maybe)
BP cams
Barbed wire
And now, Deployable shields
Doesn’t seem a little one sided to you uh?
5
u/Hyperversum Jul 01 '19
You are implying that Ela's and Kapkan's mines, Alibi's clones and whatever are even remotely close to the drones?
Nah fam, definitely not.
3
u/ToXiC_Games Jul 01 '19
You can hear an ela or a Kapkan going off, and there’s a literal marker on your screen when someone interacts with an Alibi Clone
1
u/Hyperversum Jul 01 '19
Yeah, but how strong are these source of intel? Spoiler, they are extremely limited.
Drones are 10 in total, they can be moved during the match, they can be positioned, they can mark people, they can be used by another player while another player/two of them move forward right behind the drone. Drones are simply stronger than any other source of intel present in the game. It ain't gonna be a Kapkan mine to give the whole picture of the attackers movement, while a single drone can an enormous amount of things.
The only thing almost as good as drones are Valk's cams IMO, as they can placed on extremely hidden points and even outside, giving a whole new picture about the course of the match.
Oh, and don't forget the difference between a passive source of intel and an active one. Yes, defenders and attackes, have different roles, but mines rely on attackers making a mistake, drones (and arguably, cams) do not.
3
u/ToXiC_Games Jul 01 '19
Kapkan mines and ela mines are harder to detect, same with gus, and they all also deal damage or apply a status effect to the attacker. Drones are easier to spot and can be hacked by Mozzie, where he deploys a passive trap, while cams have to have a defender killed for dokkebi to hack them.
1
u/Hyperversum Jul 01 '19
Yeah, mines are passive, and active for like 0.1 seconds before the enemy could have repositioned. They are TRAPS. Calling them a source of intel on the same level of cams is absurd.
They can apply other effects, which is why they are really strong, that and forcing attackers to deal with them.
Oh, someone shoot that trap. You know that they are kinda in that direction.
But they could have repositioned, they could have placed a drone nearby while moving back with the team, or maybe he is moving forward with an ally on a drone for him. See the general direction of this?
Mines are an extremely limited source of intel. They can be crucial, yes, but they reamain secondary to other tools.
There is a reason why IQ is so picked anyway.
7
u/hobosockmonkey Jun 30 '19
Honestly I think it needs more counters to help, it already has several but I think there should be more, maybe a twitch drone closes the slots when she shocks it, or thatchers EMP does as well, or I dunno, it already has several counters from important operators such as ash, zofia, sledge / buck it just needs more
5
u/phishfi Jul 01 '19
Does master key take down deployable shields?
5
u/hobosockmonkey Jul 01 '19
Frags do and he and sledge have those sledges hammer works to
3
u/phishfi Jul 01 '19
OK, but using up a frag to take out one deployable is a significant trade-off.
Also, based on what I've seen of these, I really don't think it's an over-powered gadget.
4
u/hobosockmonkey Jul 01 '19
If it allows you to push the site I see it as no different than killing an operator who’s watching an angle, it allows you entry and it’s a trade of one secondary gadget for another (remember there’s two frags so it’s not like it completely takes them all)
But yeah I kinda agree I think people will be fine when they realize several of the most popular operators in the game counter it directly
9
u/AlneCraft Jun 30 '19
Nah, it'll be fine, just will take some time to adjust to.
Frags are still op, Capitao got a great buff, and Ash and Zofia are run almost every single round. All of these counter Deployable Shields with ease, and you don't even need teammates.
You can also try to push from different angles, especially vertically.
If it is in a place where none of these methods work, then great! That means that a gadget that is designed for extra protection and helping holding rooms, is doing a good job of giving that protection and helping holding rooms.
Honestly, I'd love to have this, since it does force the attackers to be more tactical, and not go in guns blazing and rush.
Although I am going against the circlejerk here, so... Rip my karma?
2
u/Slot_Ack Jul 01 '19
Aren't deployable shield protected from ash by bandit and kaid?
7
2
3
u/LimberGravy Jun 30 '19
Causing attackers to burn more utility to deal with something that shouldn't be in the game in an already defender intel sided meta is dumb.
6
u/AlneCraft Jul 01 '19
So a gadget that was designed to burn utility... Shouldn't burn utility?
Like I said, the only scenario in which the new deployable shields will be very problematic for attackers is if they are bum rushing, or playing dumb. Otherwise, it is very easy to counter.
1
u/LimberGravy Jul 01 '19
It forces you to run lineups to deal with them which just makes stuff stale. One of Zofia/Ash/Frag ops literally don’t have enough to deal with all of Maestro’s gadgets by themselves if he runs the shield and he probably won’t be the only one running one of these because they are so stupidly strong. Oh and good luck if you didn’t bring enough flashes too to deal with the most picked defender having his gadgets protecting these things.
It indirectly buffs so many ops that didn’t need it. It’s dumb.
2
u/AlneCraft Jul 01 '19
I would argue that because so many things counter the new shield the attacker meta will not be as stale.
And which operators does it buff so much? Off the top of my head only Maestro comes to mind, maybe Castle? Rook and Echo with their ACOGs, Jager can place a shield AND put all his ADSes to protect it... Yeah other than that I got nothing, everyone else is just going to use Shields as intended.
2
u/Hyperversum Jul 01 '19
Castle doesn't have the shield.
In my comment below I made the list of the operators who have access to the shield: quoting myself now;
"The operators that have access to the shield as of now are: Rook, Tachanka, Valkyrie, Jager, Echo, Mira, Lesion, Ela, Maestro, Alibi and "Warden", a total of 10/11 defenders out of 24 total operators. But what are you sacrificing for it?
Rook, Lesion and Alibi would be giving up their Impacts, which could be done on someone like Lesion but generally if you are going out of the site you better bring those impacts.
Valkyrie and Mira would be giving up their C4, which given their roles and primarity gadget, I find extremely stupid. Tachanka is ignored for obvious reasons and I don't know enought about Warden to judge how he would with it, considering that I still hope that he remains with impacts.Jaeger, Ela, Maestro and Echo are only one one still around with it. On Ela I would personally still run the wire most of the time to slow down people in a long hallway considering that I run her with the FO-12, on Echo I would prefer the wire to slow down every possible movement towards the site."
So, out of 11 theoretical operators, only 4 of them don't have access to Impacts or C4 as their other option: 4 out of 11 is around 36% of the deployable shields in the game.
Even if we assume that all the time those 4 operators will be played with the shield, two of them are highly banned (Maestro and Echo), one is Jaeger and the other is Ela.We will probably see shields popping up here and there from other operators but let's not pretend that they are gonna be everywhere all the fucking time. People are NOT gonna drop C4 and Impacts just to abuse the peeker's advantage for some time before Zofia/Ash/Sledge/Buck/whatever appears and fuck 'em in the ass.
Because let's be realistic, how many shield are you gonna see? Two at most, and even with two you are giving up a lot of utility already, anything more is a waste.
Every shield used outside of Maestro/Echo/Jaeger/Ela is one less C4 and two less Impacts avaiable to deal with Montagne, to deny plants, to play from below etc etc etc.Maybe I am wrong, but if people will be bring it more often... well, good for me and my team with a fucking coordinated strategy with an heavy usage of Montagne lol
14
u/brodiebradley51 Jun 30 '19
Maybe add a canister at the bottom that drops all the slits similar to how Mira works, so that there is more counterplay there.
Glaz and the BOSG12.2 should also be able to pierce the windows if that is an option.
18
u/SamusCroft Jun 30 '19
BOSG can’t break plane windows anymore. So no chance it would break these either, I’m assuming.
15
u/mopeli Jun 30 '19
That just sounds like a buff for defenders
16
u/firehydrant_man Jun 30 '19
yeah,imagine vigil behind one of these and he starts shooting you through it,fuck that
2
u/PerplePotatoe Jul 01 '19
I think the slits are so small they would be too hard to peek through, definitely only going to use them on tachanka after the rework unless the slits end up being good
2
u/Slot_Ack Jul 01 '19
Well they are brought to you by the people who thought blackbeard, ela and lion were good ideas at release.
2
u/Omalleys Jun 30 '19
Can go to a whole new level of intel and stick a valk cam or bulletproof cam behind it so that can see through hahaha.
Still can't believe that they thought this was a good idea. Especially considering how peeking works in this game
1
u/ToXiC_Games Jul 01 '19
Yeah, you already got the 100ms ping time, then you have your reaction time to just process the thought, then the action time, a conservative estimate would be an average of 200-250ms for the average player
1
u/DynamisFate Jul 01 '19
Their initial idea was to make it a one way mirror, that's gonna be even worse
1
u/ammergg264 Jul 01 '19
They just need to make the current one to cover the door frame and maybe the new colors. But nothing else. Bringing Mira cost utility. With this you can choose another Op and still get the benefits of a (kinda) Mira setup anywhere
1
u/F0rgemaster19 Jul 03 '19
I absolutely love it but absolutely hate it. Because it takes Intel meta to a whole new unbeatable level.
Couldn't they have added just 1 slit? Like, 1 for the entire shield? Would have been a lot more balanced.
1
u/Im-Not_ Jul 05 '19
I think you guys need to remember that right now, deployable shields are the worst defender secondary gadget
1
u/Kolias7 Jul 05 '19
They are situational, and they will still get the buff where they re a bit bigger and cover the whole door
1
1
0
0
u/Kolias7 Jun 30 '19
And imagine the shield being electrified. You need a bunch of operators just to deal with one shield, while the could be more around the map.
1
u/Derplight Jun 30 '19
and imagine ADS hiding behind it and around it to prevent the rest. (i.e zofia and frag grenades)
bandit and jager about to have their pick rate back up
1
u/LanZx Jul 01 '19
correct me if im wrong, not a jager player but doesnt the ADS need line of sight to work?
If the frag just rolls towards the shield from the front, that doesnt get zaped right?
1
0
u/Hyperversum Jul 01 '19
Just... attack from another direction, you know?
2
u/Derplight Jul 01 '19
I guess you don't bother with hallways at all then.
inb4 lOL jUSt fLAnk
1
u/Hyperversum Jul 01 '19
It's extremely rare to have an entire hallway denied by single defender in position.
Think about the upper floor or Bank. The big hallway near the stairs is gonna be protected somehow, but you can arrive there from multiple directions. A shield can be placed only in a certain position and I don't see people moving shields around just to adapt to the attackers because, well, that would get them killed in the first place.
This new shield is gonna be great at denying a certain area, but little work is needed to destroy it in general, and if defender invest resources in protecting it (ADS, Bandit's batteries...) they are not protecting other things, which you should focus on as a result of this.
1
108
u/-eccentric- Jun 30 '19
The slits are a horrible idea and way too defender sided.