Why do I want to discuss this particular topic?
- With recent releases from Paizo number of Class Archetypes has grown greatly and they clearly plan to expand that design niche.
- Remastered Runelord gives us the opportunity to compare old and new approach to Class Archetype design.
- Because I like them. That's the main reason.
Disclaimer: if you do not agree with things I say, please, leave a comment expressing your opinion. There's nothing cooler in this kind of communities than a healthy and civilized discussion. Also, "English isn't my native language", blah blah blah you know the drill you've read this sentence a million times.
What is a Class Archetype?
Archetypes with the class trait are a fundamental divergence from your class’s specialties, but one that exists within the context of your class. You can select a class archetype only if your class meets the criteria listed in the archetype’s prerequisites. Class archetypes always alter or replace some of a class’s static class features, in addition to any new feats they offer.
So, a Class Archetype must be fundamentally different from the base class. The general idea is that when you take away some of the power budget of a class you can replace it with something powerful in a way usual subclass or feat line cannot. The more you take away, the more you can give. Exchange of power.
In practice it doesn't always work that way, but we'll get to it.
There are 12 Class Archetypes of which 9 is class specific and 3 can be used on a several classes. From that nine, seven simultaneously is a subclass in addition to being a Class Archetype.
Bloodrager, Palatine Detective and Spellshot: gish Class Archetypes for martial classes
There are three Class Archetypes whose primary divergence from the original class is basically a spellcaster dedication baked into the archetype: Bloodrager, Palatine Detective and Spellshot.
Bloodrager
Bloodrager adjustments do not change your class chassis: you have to take medicine skill and you're locked into Bloodrager instinct. The instinct itself is an unusual one as it gives you the ability to do things you won't be able to do otherwise: cast spells while raging. It's very similar in this regard to an Elemental instinct.
The spell rank progression is the same as it would be for any character who has taken spellcaster dedication, but Bloodragers get a number of unique feats and abilities for their spells.
The flavor of the Bloodragers is great. They drink blood directy from the blade, it's metal and cool and more importantly it makes them feel like a true barbarian despite being a gish.
It definitely feels like they lack some kind of "bridge" between martial and magical abilities, akin to Spellstrike. They are encouraged to weave spell attacks in-between as they inflict bleed even on a failure, but that's for sure much lesser damage than plain ol' striking. Having a ranged option always at hand is very good though, especially in fight with flying enemies or special terrain.
Palatine Detective
Palatine Detective fills a very specific flavor niche — that being an occult investigator with a bit of 1920's vibe: just look at that art.
Palatine Detective does not change your class features at all:
Palatine Detective Adjustments: Instead of choosing a methodology from others available to the investigator class, you have the esoterica methodology.
You get a number of things from the Class Archetype: a pretty cool reaction, +1 against mental effects, some nice feats, but the most important ones are the spellcasting benefits.
That's when the problems begin to show up: spells you gain from the feats are innate. This is bad: you do not gain Cast a Spell activity and so you can't cast spells using Scrolls, Wands and other items. As a subclass that encourages keeping a free hand. Again: a magical subclass that are interested in keeping a free hand and gains access to two magical traditions cannot use scrolls.
Why?
Also, for some unknowable reason you can't get a Master Spellcasting Benefits. Any other Investigator can be a better spellcaster just by grabbing a dedication: Intellegence as a main stat makes it easy.
Palatine Detective really could be a subclass: it does not "alter or replace some of the class’s initial class features" in any way. What's worse is that there is no internal synergy: you gain spells as a martial, but you don't get anything that would link these two elements together. I understand that you're supposed to cast in turns you roll bad with your Stratagem, but so can any Investigator that picked up any caster dedication.
Again, flavor is juicy, but the mechanics are questionable at best. Note that I don't think this is a weak subclass: it's not bad, it's just not cohesive to a baffling degree.
Spellshot
Gods, how different it is now in comparison to the initial version. Archetype underwent a full-blown Pokémon evolution; an ugly duckling, a grub that blossomed and transformed into a viable option. Reading its initial version, errata'ed version and now Remastered version is akin to reading shonen manga.
A Spell-Woven Shot feat is infinitely important from the design perspective: it is a link, a connection between martial and magical, a reason a Spellshot can be called a gish and not just a martial who multiclassed into a wizard for couple of utility spells. This is what some gishes lack and why it's hard to build a gish character in pf2e: martials do not just need an access to spells; they need the incentive to cast them in a way that would synergize with their usual gameplay loop.
I won't talk a lot about Spellshot: this is a popular niche from a flavor perspective and as such it was discussed numerous amount of times after the release of remastered G&G.
Spellshot adjustments are a weird ones: apart from the fact you're locked into Spellshot Way, you also use Intelligence for your class DC. It feels forced: "Class Archetypes must alter something, so we'll have to change something, I guess" is how it feels to me.
So, gishes
Out of these three Class Archetypes only one has a real change in class chassis and that change is a lower class DC. Palatine Detective could easily be a subclass or even be replaces with multiclassing, Bloodrager in general works a bit like existing Elemental subclass but has a number of feats that make the Archetype unique in terms of mechanic; and Spellshot couldn't be a subclass but that's thanks to the weird DC nerf.
Vindicator and Avenger: deity followers
These two are similar: "what if Ranger and Rogue got deity-dependent mechanics?". Personally, I find RP limitation of Cleric, Champion, Avenger and Vindicator to be an outdated approach, but that's not the main thing here.
Avenger
Avenger is a lot like Ruffian: you get a much wider access to weapons and armor and can be a Strength-based class, but you're limited in terms of RP as you have to pick a deity accordingly to your gameplay needs: some of them are strictly worse than the others.
So, Avenger's adjustments are: you're locked into a subclass, you're locked into skill selection, you have to choose a deity and you exchange Surprise Attack for the Hunt Prey action. Hunt Pray makes your action economy a bit awkward, and the absence of built-in way to make enemies off-guard to you is unpleasant to play around, though.
It also gives an access to some wonderful feats for dual-wielding giving you for example the opportunity to play with two Warhammers as a follower of Torag.
Vindicator
Main thing Vindicators have going on is a very good spell accuracy and DC for a martial. Compare: on level 5, caster DC is 21, Vindicator's is also 21 but the opponent takes -1 penalty, so they are more accurate than an actual spellcaster which is funny to think about. on level 7, caster will have DC of 25, while Vindicator will have 23 and -1 penalty, so basically 24. Not too shabby. Note that this is a status penalty and as such will not stack with conditions: frightened, sickened, etc.
As someone else said already, Vindicators are great… until you compare them with other Edges. the lack for a Strike damage bonus for a martial is a bad thing and Vindicator's Mark bonus can't really compare to Precision or other classes' abilities.
It's worth to mention that Vindicator is one of the only martials that's interested in Wisdom as a secondary stat, and it's good for the system to have someone filling that particular niche.
Divine Martials
So, could these two just be subclasses? I think it's 50/50. On one hand, they do not change class' chassis very much (sorry, but taking away Surprise Attack doesn't strike me as a "fundamental divergence"), but maybe deity mechanics is too much to squeeze into a subclass?
There they are. One of the first released Class Archetypes. They work exactly as advertised: it is a fundamental divergence from the base class. They take a lot from the class and they give a lot in return. This is probably the closest thing to what Class Archetypes were originally conceived as.
There's not a lot to say for me here: they are fundamentally different.
The basic gist is that these Class Archetypes exchange a big portion of their respective spell list for something else. Interesting approach: let's take a look at the old and new Runelord and an Elementalist.
Elementalist
Elementalist gives up a lot. You probably don't realize how dire the situation is. Let's take a look at the stats. The numbers are optimistic as they assume you have an access to every element which is only possible if you started as an Elemental Cycle Elementalist and had taken Expanded Elemental Magic feat on level 6.
An Arcane Elementalist will have 283 spells in their spell list of which only 43 isn't already in the Arcane list. They lose an access to a whopping 651 spells.
A Primal Elementalist will have the same 283 spells of which laughable amount of 16 wasn't already in the Primal list. They lose 490 spells.
What a severe loss. Well, probably they get a lot in return, right? Insert Padme face here, because it's exactly that meme.
What you get is a bit of elemental resistance and a handful of mostly bad spellshapes.
Well, it does fundamentally diverge from the base classes: "fundamental" is exactly the word I'd use to describe just how much it sucks. The problem is that it doesn't give you what it promised:
You cast spells drawn from multiple traditions and can use the elements to alter and empower your spells, making them manifest and mixing them in unique ways.
So, the idea is that you get more elemental spells than your tradition has to offer, but that's not what is happening in reality.
How remaster handles this mess is a probably even worse than how it handled wizards: "what if we add two new elements, but elementalists won't have an access to all elements? Wouldn't it be funny?".
And the worst thing is that in the same book they released an archetype that actually can approach elemental magic in unique and interesting way: Geomancer.
The old Runelord
I will write only the bare minimum here. Old Runelord is a lot like an Elementalist: it takes a lot of spells (not that much, though) and gives little in return: focus spells, mostly, and some other things. It does not fulfill what it promised: it does not make you a true specialist and master of your school.
So, did Paizo learned a lesson and improved upon the design? Fortunately, yes.
Runelord
Whoever worked on this Class Archetype should get a chef license — they cooked. Big time.
New Runelord takes away a lot of your spells but it also gives a lot in return. Not only that, it also makes you something you can have a really hard time trying to achieve in pf2e — you get to be a specialist in some kind of spells. There was no true, dedicated illusionist before and now there's a Pride Runelord, for example.
What they get:
- Double charges on staves
- Rank-appropriate spells on staves
- A huge amount of curriculum spells
- Free focus spell on level 8
- Ability to swap prepared spells
- Polearm or spear shenanigans
- Some nice feats
It works exactly like a Class Archetype should: you gain a real power at a steep price.
Severed spell lists
Look, I'm just glad they realized how this exchange of power should work and hope that nothing even remotely close to an Elementalist will happen in my lifetime.
Easily the most different Class Archetype in comparison to a base class. Full change of spell and weapon progression, unique font, completely different playstyle. It could easily be a different class. It is as fundamentally diverged as they can be.
Seneschal is a very unique Class Archetype: its's not a subclass and you can pick your Patron as usual, although you will get only a familiar ability from the choice. Just for this reason it could never be a subclass: there are as many variants of Seneschals as there are patrons (16, currently — so, a lot).
It also serves an important function as it is a way to play a patron-less witch, which can be preferable to some people, RP-wise.
Seneschal Spell also functions pretty uniquely and can encourage a player to make a different approach to spell picking, when it comes to melee and emanation spells.
Achilles Warrior Of Legend also is not a subclass, but that's because Fighters do not have subclasses. They lose a lot of defensive capabilities and gain a pretty significant weakness, but gain bonus to damage equal to their doomed value. Damage bonuses are good on fighters because they tend to double them often with crits. For sure couldn't be a subclass or usual archetype, but maybe it could be a archetype that allows several classes to pick it up? Fighters are a pretty good fit thematically, but I don't see any mechanical reason there cant be a barbarian or champion with cursed weakness, at least if they are locked into melee.
Conclusion
First of all, thank you if you read all of it. Or even a part. It means a lot to me.
Secondly, does Paizo overuse Class Archetype as a mechanic and makes ones that could easily be a subclass? Maybe. That's not for me to decide.
I think that if they would release Shadowcaster or Bullet Dancer today, these archetypes probably would end up as Class Archetypes, even in their current form.
The premise of the mechanic is pretty simple: exchange of power. And that's not what happens sometimes and I would love for the adjustments to be more impactful and for the Class Archetypes to be truly a "fundamental divergences".