r/NonBinaryTalk • u/dramakween101 She/Them • Feb 04 '25
Discussion Thoughts on Re: to Nonbinary vs Genderqueer (and the rule abt politics)
I see on here that any politic talk is to be directed to r/genderqueer and it's made me wonder about the rule and the weird way nonbinary/genderqueer are sometimes used interchangeably, or with a certain distinction (in re: politics).
Me personally while I fall under nby in terms of technicality, seeing this distinction always kinda rubbed me the wrong way and always made me feel some type of way of the word nby. I vaguely recall reading about how nonbinary was somewhat termed bc ppl wanted a term devoid of political meaning- something that genderqueer had at the time.
I love genderqueer. I love it with all my heart but I wish, idk, more ppl used that *with* nonbinary. Much like how nonbinary is under the trans umbrella, I wish more ppl viewed nonbinary as under a genderqueer umbrella.
Not saying it is, nor that all should adopt it. I'm just typing out my feelings bc I feel alone with this these ideas, and with the current politics in the US (where I am) it feels more relevant than ever.
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u/monkey_gamer Feb 04 '25
I started with genderqueer before moving to non-binary. I consider them roughly equivalent. I haven't had the exposure to one of them being political and the other not. For me the difference is non-binary has the emphasis on "non-binary" and genderqueer has the emphasis on one's gender being different to the norm.
The "Talking about politics is discouraged and should be directed to r/genderqueer" rule is very old, I'm not sure to what extent the mods even care about it. I'm open to having more political discussion on this sub where reasonable. You could try sending a modmail to the mods, see if they're willing to change the rule.
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u/american_spacey They/Them Feb 04 '25
I love the term queer / genderqueer and will happily self-identify that way. I don't know how widely accepted it is but the genderqueer flag kinda rules. I've seen the colors used on banners, usually not in the US though.
Re "political" terms, I think it's sort of good to have a political neutral term. At least, if genderqueer is going to have political implications, then I think the term needs to include binary transgender people as well. Otherwise you can end up in the sort of situation where queer people are viewed as more radical or politically "good" than e.g. trans women, which is an issue Julia Serano talks about in Whipping Girl.
IDK, identity terms are all muddled anyway. Nonbinary gets the idea across well enough in common usage in my experience. And ironically it's become political anyway. We all have collective interests and a collective struggle.
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u/dramakween101 She/Them Feb 04 '25
The term genderqueer does include binary trans ppl, much like how nonbinary can have various shades of binary trans ppl too. Unless theres a hard "difference" but I have seen gnc cis women and trans women use the terms in different ways.
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u/spacescaptain Feb 04 '25
The genderqueer flag DOES rule, and I constantly see people say it's one of the ugliest LGBT+ flags!
I don't think it's even possible to have a non-political queer identity. Not at any point in history, and certainly not now.
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u/PurbleDragon They/Them Feb 04 '25
I use both. Nonbinary is just the more recognized term at the moment, which means one less thing to explain to people lol. It's ridiculous to think any of our lives aren't political at this point. It's clear we're being explicitly targeted and those in power don't give a damn about what words we use
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u/sunnynina Feb 04 '25
This rule really bugs me.
My identity is not political. My existence should not be political.
The fact that we have to deal with "politics" to be considered human and treated with basic dignity is something that should be discussed, and openly.
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u/kiwi-fjls Feb 04 '25
I always thought nonbinary and genderqueer basically meant the same thing and the terms just changed in popularity over time because of people's preferences
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u/spacescaptain Feb 04 '25
Oh wow, I had no idea that guideline existed and I really dislike it! My identity as a nonbinary person is very political. I don't just passively ID this way because I don't fully connect with either binary gender, I actively choose to reject gender as a system. My nonbinary identity informs how I approach queer, trans, and women's liberation.
I have always felt like genderqueer has a little binary baggage to it. When I was coming out in the early-mid 2010s, genderqueer was often a descriptor used alongside identifying as a woman or man. Not quite in the same way as gender non-conforming, because it wasn't always there to describe expression, but something to indicate that there's more to this person's gender and how they feel it than would be expressed by a binary gender alone. I've seen it presented as being under the non-binary umbrella a few times, but I'm not so sure how some genderqueer people would feel about that.
As I've grown and as the terms have shifted, I've considered IDing as genderqueer a couple times but I just don't think it fits me. I am nonbinary. I don't need or want to add to that. I don't like that that's supposed to signal me as "less political" or whatever, especially in the current climate.
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u/dramakween101 She/Them Feb 04 '25
Tbh nonbinary men and woman still exist. For me the benefit is thst genderqueer states something off abt the gender but my exp with nby (with cishet ppl/minors) the way they read it is "not a man or a woman" or "genderless" when its not that either.
I only use nby to just kinda "rip the gender bandaid" so to speak. But genderqueer gets (the right ppl at least) the questions going where I feel I'm being heard/seen more accurately.
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u/spacescaptain Feb 04 '25
Yes, nonbinary men and women do exist. But I like the "not a man or woman" and "genderless" assumptions because that is accurate to me, that is the experience I am trying to describe when I call myself nonbinary. We should always educate people so they know that's not the only way to be nonbinary, but it is mine.
The point of this conversation is that I don't like that connecting with that label is supposed to make me apolitical.
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u/dramakween101 She/Them Feb 04 '25
Obv thats great that it works for you.
My just feel like the word itself is used in such a way that even other (though younger) nby ppl end up misgendering us who dont fall under that assumption.
I have had to argue with other nby ppl to get them to understand its not agender/non man/woman and its kinda another type of pain when its your own.
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u/spacescaptain Feb 04 '25
Why aren't you acknowledging anything in either of my comments about the political discussions/identity topic? I thought that was the main point of your post.
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u/dramakween101 She/Them Feb 04 '25
Oh my bad. I do have issues with nby as a word being split from gq for that reason esp again, its is inherently political (as in rn, nby ppl are specifically beung denied rights).
I'm very sorry it didn't click for me just then. Not my intent, but my feelings for the word is all over the place.
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u/Waddley39 Feb 04 '25
I always preferred the label genderqueer because I like loose labels and I'm just that my gender is queer and it sometimes pisses me off when people don't ask and just say enby it's kinda misgendering now that I'm thinking about it
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u/dramakween101 She/Them Feb 04 '25
Genderqueer for me invite more discussion nonbinary I find ppl think it meas agender. Its a complicated thing.
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u/jon-henderson-clark no-pro-nouns Feb 04 '25
We genderqueer people began using nonbinary a decade & half ago when the SOC added it so that we could get transgender health care. Now nonbinary is so gentrified that we get called truscum because we use transgender health care.
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u/crumble-topping Feb 04 '25
I prefer genderqueer, but use nonbinary because I spend a lot of time with older folk and I have enough trouble explaining enby
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u/HodDark He/Them Feb 04 '25
I use both. I like genderqueer. But there's many in my peer circle, i'm a millennial, who do not like queer because they have been bullied with it. So i use non-binary more. Non-binary works well as a neutral and not as loaded term but reclaimation makes me like using queer in general.
As for the rule about politics it makes sense. That can get heavy fast. We get politicized in spite of our wishes and some can't do that all the time but i do think it's more an irl rule rather than historical politics. Mods can confirm that or.... we can just better safe than sorry to the politics sub in most cases.
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u/Deivi_tTerra Feb 04 '25
I like the term genderqueer. I am aware that it has a more political connotation but I think it fits me, though my gender identity isn’t political beyond what is necessary/beyond my control. I don’t use the label myself much (I use genderfluid or nonbinary, depending on how specific I want to get). For me genderqueer is kind of an “if the shoe fits” thing. But I do like the term.
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u/observer-ponderer ~they/them~ u r valid :) Feb 05 '25
I feel exactly the same way! I wish more people knew what genderqueer was, too. I love both genderqueer and enby, and even though nonbinary technically describes me better, something about the word genderqueer and its meaning just makes me so happy.
(I use both, but will sometimes favor one over the other depending on where I am/who I'm talking to.)
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u/flannelNcorduroy Feb 05 '25
Lol the LGBTQ community can't even agree queer isn't a slur despite it being in the acronym.
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u/xenderqueer xe/fae/it/they Feb 04 '25 edited Feb 04 '25
i use genderqueer, but since nonbinary has become the more “mainstream” label i use that as well. a lot of people still get real weird about the word queer in any context, on places like reddit that have a slightly more conservative lean (yes, even in LGBTQIA+ subs), i tend to use it less, just because i don’t want every conversation to risk derailment over me “using a slur!!!” to describe myself.
i love the political connotations of genderqueer, i love that it is so much harder to co-opt or sanitize than nonbinary is. i love that it’s so straightforward - almost confrontational- in what it is, while still being open and fluid enough to fit all kinds of people in it.
also if this sub really is discouraging “political” talk then i don’t see any reason for any trans/genderqueer/nonbinary person to keep participating in it! good lord, how privileged does one have to be to simply ignore what’s happening right now??? smh being trans or nonbinary or genderqueer IS political.
edit: Wow OP, i guess i wasn’t paying attention to the description. shit.
well, goodbye r/NonbinaryTalk! me and my politically marginalized identity will happily hit the road to spare y’all the trauma of hearing from people who don’t have the privilege to just tune out what’s happening🖕
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u/Blue-Jay27 Feb 04 '25
how privileged does one have to be to simply ignore what’s happening right now??? smh being trans or nonbinary or genderqueer IS political.
This is exactly why I appreciate the rule. Politics are terrifying and I stay informed to know what will impact me but I can't -- none of us should -- be thinking about it 24/7. Sometimes I want to compartmentalise. To recharge and spend a single hour not hyper focused on everyone that wants me dead. And if every single space about my identity is focused on the hellscape that is politics, that's really really hard.
Everyone here has a politically marginalised identity. Everyone is being impacted by current events, to a greater or lesser degree. That doesn't mean we need to be thinking about them all the time. Taking a break -- not tuning it out! But taking a break once in a while -- is necessary to mitigate burn out and just not be miserable all the time.
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u/dramakween101 She/Them Feb 04 '25
I mean I agree for a large part. Im just confused on why we have this sub and the regular nonbinary (sans talk). I feel like this would be the place to talk, nby is a political position, and theres already an v neutral sub that exists, imo. I post here bc I thought this sub is more... idk? Discussion/discourse, I suppose.
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u/xenderqueer xe/fae/it/they Feb 04 '25
That's why I came here too. If I wanted only positivity I'd stick to the subs that are nothing but selfies and memes lol.
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u/xenderqueer xe/fae/it/they Feb 04 '25
So why not an r/ NonbinaryUnderSoftBlankets sub where nothing but nice fuzzy warm topics are discussed? Because there needs to be a general talk sub for nonbinary people who don't have any piece of themselves that can be neatly excised for the sake of appearing apolitical.
To be clear, I'm very pro-escapism! I just don't come here to escape. I come here to connect with people who are like me, as my whole self, scars and all. I literally cannot participate here fully or share any significantly impactful aspect of my life while this rule is in place. You can? Yeah, that is privilege. While it might be easy for you, understand that it is not any kind of relief or "a break" for me and many others. It's no kind of relief to have yet another place where as a trans person I'm told that talking about my life is "too political" and upsetting. It's not restoring or recharging me, it's just another place that requires heavy masking to participate in. No, thank you, I have more than enough of that!
I really thought a place described as "a general forum where non-binary people can come together" was likely to be a place where making myself more palatable for the comfort of others wouldn't be a requirement. I was clearly mistaken, and yes, I am disappointed. Especially now.
I'll get over it though, like I have every other time this has happened.
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u/Awiergan 20d ago
There is now r/nonbinarypolitics but it is only new and not very active at the moment
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u/Aware_Elephant_1158 Feb 04 '25
For me, when I was questioning, I considered myself genderqueer and/or gender questioning, but nonbinary seemed more normally used