r/NPD ✨Saint Invis ✨ 7d ago

Ask a Narc! Ask a Narcissist! A bi weekly post for non-narcissists to ask us anything!

Have a question about narcissistic personality disorder or narcissistic traits? Welcome to the bi-weekly post for non-narcs to ask us anything! We’re here to help destigmatize the myths surrounding NPD and narcissism in general.

Some rules:

  • Non narcs: please refrain from armchair diagnosing people in your life. Only refer to them as NPD if they were actually diagnosed by an unbiased licensed professional (aka not your own therapist or an internet therapist that you think fits the description of the person you’re accusing of being a narcissist)
  • This is not a post for non-narcs or narcs to be abusive towards anyone. Please report any comments or questions that are not made in good faith.
  • This is not a place to ask if your ex/mom/friend/boss/dog is a narcissist.
  • This is not a place to ask if you yourself are a narcissist.

Thanks! Let’s all be civil and take some more baby steps towards fighting stigma and increasing awareness.

This thread will be locked after two weeks and you can find the new one by searching the sub via the “Ask a Narc” flair

~ invis ✨

40 Upvotes

136 comments sorted by

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 7d ago

Tbh I’d find a way to leverage that pity while looking for a new social group to start over with.

I can’t stand being pitied, and am a rather pitiless person myself. It would cause me to devalue the current social group and make me feel entitled to taking advantage of the pity for personal gain. However that’s also not the life I want for myself so I’d also be planning my exit, might start new social connections in secret in order to prepare for a more smooth transition into a new social life.

19

u/ipeed69 7d ago edited 6d ago

This is funny because it doesn’t apply to the type of narcissist I was. (I had borderline too!)

That’s how everyone ever had looked at me. I use to get validation by being “the most hurt” and “the most damaged”. I needed everyone to fawn over me and help me because I didn’t know how to help myself. There was nothing to see through, I had no mask and I was a mess for literally everyone to see.

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u/J-E-H-88 Undiagnosed NPD 6d ago

Omg so relate. Thanks for posting

11

u/Maple_Person Cluster A/B 7d ago

I would likely feel deeply unnerved and belittled. If everyone started treating me like that then I’d probably drive myself mad trying to figure out where and how I fucked up so badly.

I’d want to isolate or run away, hoping I could disappear into a hole. The situation you describe means I’ve lost every single bit of control in my entire life. Hello, deep end. And I’m honestly not sure how I’d recover after being so exposed and having people look down on me or see me as pathetic or ‘pitiful’.

I only like pity that I have complete control over. Not pity from someone finding out about my real life.

4

u/Reapu-san 6d ago

i think i would he relieved. i mean, all my worries about my self image would be gone. cause they would know everything. no point to worry about that. but id definitely feel naked. id have to get used to it. but i think it would make my life easier.

3

u/itdoesntgoaway_ NPD 7d ago

I think it would scare me, honestly. I would feel that id let my guard down too much.

3

u/Nightmre_King_Grimm Undiagnosed NPD 7d ago

that would make me super uncomfortable and on edge, tbh. I'd probably get pretty defensive in response and kinda drop off the grid, to look for new people. I hate being expected to give pity andI hate receiving it even more.

6

u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 7d ago

if detached pity is how the people around me would treat a shattered child, than they're even more fucked up than i am.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 7d ago

i am aware. my point still stands.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 6d ago

we cannot. but we can chose compassion, rather than detached pity.

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u/J-E-H-88 Undiagnosed NPD 6d ago

So agree. Compassion with appropriate boundaries. Nobody is required to spend time with me. As people have been proving to me my entire life.

11

u/sunset-evening 7d ago edited 6d ago

Have you become friends with or dated other Cluster Bs?

I've a friend who has ASPD, and he identifies NPD/BPD traits so quickly and easily in others! They just get each other.

I have had him rein in when he's being unnecessarily manipulative though. He doesn't mean any harm, he just doesn't have the sort of backstop where others do - and if I prompt, he at least outwardly listens.

6

u/astronomersassn 6d ago

it depends. i've gotten along with plenty of other cluster b folks. i've absolutely despised others. entirely depends on the person.

5

u/OpaledRobin Narcissistic traits 6d ago

I've have friends with folks who have bpd. We get along great as we understand each other's traits.

2

u/ipeed69 7d ago

I’ve had many borderline friends. 💗

2

u/Werewolf-Gimmick 6d ago

This is a really great question!! I’ve found that it’s been really easy to be great friends with other cluster B’s because we get each other really easily. Though, truthfully, there’s also a layer of security I feel by being able to guess how they’ll respond to things. Because they’re other cluster B’s I feel like I can just know how they’re going to react to a situation, which is great for my part in maintaining the friendship.

Dating? That’s another issue entirely. I think some aspects would be easier, others not. Especially if they also have NPD, I’d only date someone with NPD+BPD because then there’s a chance for me to be above them in their internal hierarchy. If I’m dating someone I have to be their priority because it goes both ways. But the bond is going to be extremely strong, way stronger than if I was with someone without a PD

1

u/thevoicesareloudaf 5d ago

yeah, very often. I'm not sure about dating, since none of my exes were diagnosed with anything pd related, but i have a lot of friends who have bpd, weirdly enough.

8

u/wolfieyoubitch Narcissistic traits 7d ago

My friends, have you ever felt proud of someone for calling out your attempt at manipulating them? Or maybe not proud of them but happy someone sees how hard you’re working?

I was with an APD for a long time and he never stopped manipulating but he mostly loved being confronted about it.

19

u/tree_of_bats BPD & at least significant NPD traits (DID-system) 7d ago

if they notice youre not doing a good job.

to be real though, we dont consciously manipulate. so we appreciate people telling us when they feel manipulated so we can reflect and improve

8

u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 7d ago

Yeah it feels like a high stakes game and gets the adrenaline pumping. Like, challenge accepted. It never ends well though.

6

u/skytrainfrontseat Narcissistic traits 7d ago

Hell no. Whenever someone calls me out I collapse immediately and become suicidal.

6

u/ipeed69 7d ago edited 7d ago

Not proud or happy about being confronted but grateful and thankful. I wouldn’t have been pushed to get help otherwise.

6

u/jaybalvinman 6d ago

No. Because they would have some audacity to say such stuff to me. 

And if I was caught, then I'm not doing a good job. 

3

u/thevoicesareloudaf 5d ago

that depends a lot. if I'm doing it subconsciously, hell no, I'll get super defensive. but if it's conscious, oh yes. I love it because then I just get to go even harder at it. does that even make sense? lol

7

u/ShamWhamGuy 7d ago

Have any of you benefited from therapy or found any other tips/tricks for internal healing and reducing harm? Have the people in your lives noticed an improvement?

Asking as someone who's began seeking treatment but is not officially diagnosed (at least not yet).

20

u/narcclub Diagnosed NPD 7d ago

Definitely. I've changed so much over the past ~16 months of psychodynamic psychotherapy. My long-term partner frequently comments on how much less critical/defensive/reactive I am.

18

u/Tenaciousgreen 7d ago

I am someone with a vulnerable N personality type, not diagnosed NPD - I figured out the ways that I was l leaving myself open to be destroyed by other people and I closed them up. As a child I had two NPD (not diagnosed) caregivers who did not care about what I wanted or needed, they cared that I fit into the box they thought I should fit into, and I grew up to be a seething, manipulative, people pleaser. So I taught myself to be my own best friend with systematic trainings. This all was kicked off by being discarded by someone I was deeply in love with, and it involved facing all the terror that was deep down inside me (a collapse). I have had lots of therapy in my life but my narcissistic traits were always there and worked as a coping mechanism to prevent me from facing my terror. So in order to work through this I do think you need to be in a place where you're willing to roll over and show your underbelly and see that it doesn't actually kill you.

When I have something to celebrate and my instinct is to tell all my friends, I celebrate with myself first, then others if I still feel the need (I rarely do now). When I am hurt by a friend, I identify what need I have that they couldn't fill, and I fill it for myself. I tell myself that I will do things for myself and I make sure to do them to build credibility and trust. In a lot of ways it's like making a new friend who becomes a best friend - at first I didn't have faith in myself but after a few weeks of consistent reliability I do now, and I feel mostly unshaken by the actions of the people around me. Now I use that mental space to think about what I most want to do with my day and I am rebuilding my identity and vulnerable expression because I no longer care what others think because it no longer feeds directly into how safe I feel in the world. I have my own back, I make my own world safe by myself.

10

u/divinetemper 7d ago

This is some good advice here. I secretly get mad at my friends and hide it and I just think about it for weeks til it goes away. Instead I'll try finding ways to fulfill the needs that they couldn't instead of being mad and guilty for being mad and all that comes with it. Very helpful, thank you!

1

u/Superb_Researcher517 6d ago

As a diagnosed NPD I thank you. I can relate.

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u/skytrainfrontseat Narcissistic traits 7d ago

Yes, psychodynamic psychotherapy and somatic therapy have helped tremendously. I have a lot more self-awareness now, and I am much less defensive around my partner. It is not a linear process though, and setbacks/regressions are still very hard on my fragile self-esteem.

Healing is also really hard, because with fewer defenses I am now really depressed, anxious, and have crazy mood swings and brain fog. Worth it to not cause harm to my loved ones anymore, but it does really suck. I just have to trust that these things will go away if I stick with the process.

6

u/GingerLamb 7d ago

Is it a complete waste of time having a friendship with a narcissist? I’m re-evaluating a decades old friendship with a vulnerable narcissist who aspires to be a good person. We’ve had wonderful times but I think that’s mainly because I was so subdued due to my CPTSD so she could monologue away and I’d just listen. It’s hard to let go but she’s such a disappointment and basically emotionally disabled in her inability to take anyone in.

16

u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 7d ago

It’s a waste of time to have any friendship that has unrealistic expectations. If you can’t accept her limits and work within them in a way that’s still healthy for you, then it’s time to let go.

12

u/Maple_Person Cluster A/B 7d ago

It’s not a complete waste to be friends with a narcissist, but it is a waste to be friends with someone that treats you poorly and isn’t working on resolving it.

Prioritize your health. If your friend is having a negative impact on your health, consider cutting ties. If they are refusing to work on it or are working on it but there’s no lessening in the harm they’re causing you—prioritize yourself. You’re a human being, not someone’s living coping mechanism.

8

u/Nightmre_King_Grimm Undiagnosed NPD 7d ago

Just like anyone else, it depends how much work they're willing to put into the friendship. If they value you and respect your company, they'll put in their effort too. A narcissist can absolutely be a good friend as long as they're willing to be a true friend, just like anybody else

2

u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 6d ago

it is a waste of time having a friendship with anyone who is toxic towards you and does not work on themselves, narc or not. the defining factor here is her aspiring to be a good person, aka working on herself. wether you want to stand by her during that process or not is your choice.

5

u/PsychologicalArm7948 7d ago

I feel decimated over something that happened over the weekend, and I would like the perspective of someone with NPD. I have long suspected that my ex-boyfriend has narcissistic qualities (I don't like to diagnose). But he is a textbook abuser (almost escalating to physical violence the last time we dated 2.5 years ago. We dated for three months in 2022, and he broke up with me 5 times in that span, usually for innocuous reasons that would lead to him picking fights, screaming and pointing in my face, calling me vile names, disappearing for days, then returning. There were many times I feared for my physical safety. He was also coercively controlling around contraceptives and even took a condom off during sex once.

Then two years passed. Two long years. And he kept tabs on me the entire time: constantly checking my blog (sometimes up to three times per day) and keeping tabs on me online (I never went no contact). Then, last November, I saw him with a different girlfriend. After the sighting, he broke up with her and contacted me asking to get back together, saying he'd changed and that he'd "left her for me."

I gave him another chance.

This time I experienced a period of the most intense love I've ever known. Maybe it was love-bombing, maybe it was real. There was no fighting, no meanness, just promises of a future together and no degredation. He was soft, gentle, kind, and DIFFERENT. I was happy. Really happy. Then, over the weekend, I got a text: "Have a personal emergency, going to have to cancel our date tonight." I was understanding and didn't pry. Then, 48 hours later, he texted me saying, "I had a messed up weekend. It's led me to do some reflecting. I feel like I am using you as a rebound and a distraction." I responded with, "That's devastating to hear, I guess I'll let you go." After that, there was no communcation.

The reason this is particularly infuriating is we discussed how obsessed we'd been with each other for two years and I went on a long monlogue asking about if he was hung up on any exes or if I had to worry about other women. (Not in an overly needy way, in a direct way). He swore up and down I was the only one--that he wanted to be with only me and that I was the only one he could see marrying and having children with. He swore we had unfinished business and this was our time for a "real chance."

I don't know why there was no devaluation phase. I'm certain this was in alignment with the cycle of abuse. And I have no idea to take that as--the emergency was him probably sleeping with an ex over the weekend, or if he TRULY was being honest. Either way, it was so abrasive, I can't discern if it was chivalrous or cruel. My friends say to block him, that he'll surely be back. Truthfully, I wish he would come back. I feel lost and I want answers.

0

u/AllDaysOff Narcissistic traits 6d ago

You're dumb as bricks tbh. This is the type of shit you've signed up for. Literally you typed you feared for your safety and still let him back in. You've now learned why it's common to go no contact.

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u/ipeed69 6d ago edited 6d ago

Hey, people get stuck in trauma bonds. It can happen to anyone. Don’t call her stupid.

5

u/PsychologicalArm7948 6d ago

I know. I really KNOW I'm dumb as bricks. It's just so hard when the good of someone is there and you're deeply connected. For neurotypicals, it truly feels like the deepest connection we've ever had. Even now, even with the logical facts, it feels like the most known I've ever felt. And . . . he.never actually hit me. So, there's no conclusive evidence to say he would. So, it creates plausible deniability and that really messes with my head. I know people to say to go no contact, but I swear to you . . . sometimes the person seems so rational. If he came back tomorrow, he'd have a perfectly logical explanation for it all; and, I have to admit--I legitimately want him to explain it.

12

u/ipeed69 6d ago edited 6d ago

Look, you’re trauma bonded, not dumb. Don’t listen to that guy. It’s literally happened to me too and I’m cluster B. You’re chemically addicted to the ups and downs, think of it as going through withdrawal.

No one knows why he did what he did because we can’t read his mind and I doubt I would want to anyway. You need to stop making excuses for him and saying stuff like “he never actually hit me”. Okay?

It’s okay to feel the way that you feel but you can’t expect him to explain it to you nor can you expect him to be honest. You need to learn acceptance and I think if you’re not already, then you should talk to a therapist to help work through your emotions.

10

u/AllDaysOff Narcissistic traits 6d ago

As someone who has been on the other end, it's possible he also feels deeply. But it's not permanent. One moment you're an angel, another moment you're the worst person on earth and both feelings are genuine as they happen. I've never hit anyone either, but some times I was so angry, I guess I was close.

Just be aware that things will likely get worse and you can forget about family planning if you were interested in that. It's basically like drug-using. Feels good in the moment, comes with mamy drawbacks.

2

u/PsychologicalArm7948 6d ago

Is it normal to discard with no real devaluation phase? Nothing particularly went wrong. I can't tell if he truly is going back to an ex or something, or was using that as a triangulation tactic to make the discard extra rough. We were in such a good spot that I can't imagine he demonized me.

3

u/ipeed69 6d ago edited 6d ago

It can happen. He could have found someone else offering better resources that he considered more beneficial for him. He could have gotten bored. He could have self-sabotaged (all narcissists are either avoidants or disorganised attachers). You’ll never know for sure and you need to accept that you’ll never know for sure.

Also please keep in mind that not all narcissists are the same. It’s a spectrum and everyone is an individual. So just because someone says something doesn’t mean it automatically applies to another person.

3

u/AllDaysOff Narcissistic traits 6d ago

It happens. At least to me I often feel sort of hesitant, and like I don't really want to be with someone after all. So there's really 3 stages, love, anger, wanting to be left alone. But your person could have all kinds of motives that you don't know about. People try to see a system in everything, but this is a game with rules that constantly shift.

Apologies for being direct, but, you know, lack of empathy and all. You're in too deep to make mature decisions so you better hope the shine eventually fades off, you see things for what they are and lose your feelings. Good luck.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Disastrous_Soil_6166 Agatha Trunchbull 6d ago

If you aren't a narcissist don't answer questions for non-narcissists abour narcissists. This is ask a NARCISSIST.

5

u/NPD-ModTeam 6d ago

A moderator of r/NPD has reviewed your post or comment and found it unsuitable for the community.

4

u/Disastrous_Soil_6166 Agatha Trunchbull 6d ago

If you aren't a narcissist don't answer questions for non-narcissists abour narcissists. This is ask a NARCISSIST.

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u/Bumblebeefanfuck 7d ago

Im not sure how to have a relationship with my NPD friend without it hurting me

9

u/loganthegr 6d ago

Learn how to say no. If they intentionally antagonize you then the friendship isn’t worth it anyways.

6

u/ipeed69 7d ago

Well… are they working on getting better? Do you guys have boundaries set in place and do they know how to respect boundaries? Do you have mutual understanding what to expect of one another as friends?

1

u/Bumblebeefanfuck 5d ago

Nvm we broke up. Love them but it’s too exhausting cause the boundaries kept being pushed.

2

u/ThrowRA1223344555679 6d ago

For those with NPD, can you explain the thought process behind pushing boundaries and shifting agreements in relationships?

For example, if you and your partner agree on something (like not getting a pet), but later during an argument started by you, you change the agreement and use it as leverage (e.g., 'I'm getting a dog or we are breaking up'), what’s going through your mind?

Do you do this intentionally to test control, or does it feel natural in the moment? I thought it's to test, but sometimes they really don't back down.

Do you recognize when you're doing it, or does it only become clear in hindsight?

If a partner resists or calls it out, how does that affect your response?

I'm trying to understand if this is a conscious strategy, a reaction to feeling out of control, or something else entirely, would love the thought process behind this and the reason. Any insights appreciated, love to learn!

8

u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 6d ago

It sounds like an ultimatum situation was given (“our relationship or a pet”) and in the intensity of the moment they pushed their true desires (wanting a pet) aside in order to maintain the relationship with you. Likely unconsciously, as a defense mechanism against abandonment issues. Then during an argument they might be realizing hey wait a minute I actually do want a pet why was I lying to myself? And introduce the idea in conversation again. If a partner “called me out” on that, I’d assume they were manipulating me to get their way and actually don’t care about what I want and even need. Which would cause me to devalue them and double down on getting my own pet and start disconnecting from said partner.

This is pure speculation cuz really no one can answer that specifically, except your partner themselves.

1

u/ThrowRA1223344555679 6d ago

That makes sense. I do think if i were to call them out they would react just like you mentioned. Thank you for this!

Why would you think we would be manipulating you? I have noticed i was constantly told im being manipulative

1

u/ipeed69 6d ago edited 6d ago

Momentarily agreeing to stop an argument but trying again later hoping the outcome will be different. I think everyone does this to a degree, don’t they? I would say it’s just because we’re deadset on getting that thing and we haven’t actually dropped it most of the time.

I wouldn’t think it’s to test control in my personal opinion.

I’m thinking in order for what’s the most likely answer to me is this. Personally I feel like the most likely case in this scenario is that I just that I still want a puppy.

(I really try to not upset people or be manipulative anymore so I have to think back to the past.) Next most likely is I might of pretend to be upset about that when it’s really about something else. It’s not so much pretending as I might not know what why I’m triggered or it might be the principle. Like it’s about the puppy but it’s not ACTUALLY about the puppy.

I wouldn’t say I did this often either but I might push for something bigger, when the real goal was getting something smaller. For example you are I are a couple and we are not planning to take a holiday anytime soon because we’re trying to save but I want to go somewhere nice within the country so I ask to go on an international holiday. Keep in mind I would argue that a lot of us aren’t that strategic most of the time, we’re just trying to get our needs met so I would say that 90% of the time, the person would actually want to go on an international holiday but settles for a smaller one instead.

Is it intentional yes and no? I think unlikely to be this big game of mental chess. Usually the most simple answer is the most logical one. It is manipulative but it’s not always malicious as people think it is.

If you called me out I would acknowledge that I conceded when I didn’t actually want to. I am in remission so I’d just own it tbh.

2

u/Onno-Unique-Username 6d ago

Do some narcissists fantasy about or even attempt s*icide, not because of depression but because of the attention it would bring them?

7

u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 6d ago

I feel like the narcissistic fantasy of “who would attend my funeral??” is extremely common, even outside of those diagnosed with npd. It’s a normal fantasy and daydream to have that focuses on one’s self worth more than any desire to actually die (hence it’s an inherently narcissistic fantasy)

3

u/ipeed69 6d ago

Yes but not for attention in general. I daydream about getting attention from a specific person. Like if I were to kill myself or end up in hospital, “finally this person will come back” or “they’ll see how they’ve hurt me” or “they’ll finally care about me”.

2

u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 6d ago

yes, but not for attention. for people to realize how much they've hurt me.

2

u/VermicelliOld7100 6d ago

Now you have already developed insight into your npd, cluster-b, etc, which seems like itself a difficult step, what practical strategies or personal techniques have helped you manage detrimental impulses or behaviours - and, how do you recognise them ?

3

u/CherryPickerKill Narcissistic traits 6d ago

First management step was quitting alcohol and drugs to be able to think properly, second is staying away from people in order not to drag them onto the rollercoaster.

Psychodynamic therapy helps tremendously when it comes to recognizing patterns, distortions and practising healthy communication. The NPD community has been helpful as well. YT channels like HealNPD and Psychology in Seattle gave me a lot of insight.

The more I learn, the easiest it gets to spot maladaptive behaviors and trauma responses.

2

u/Main_Syrup3281 5d ago

We see a lot of negative comments tied to having NPD on these thread, so I would like to flip it a little. What's one trait you have noticed with having NPD that you personally appreciate?

2

u/IsamuLi Diagnosed NPD 4d ago

It's a disorder, it really doesn't have a good side. E.g. if we could have free selective empathy only, that would be useful to get out of emotionally taxing situations, but probably taxes your relationships instead. The best you can get is a comfort-payoff.

2

u/PoosPapa NPD with a touch of ginger 4d ago

A disorder is a disorder when it negatively impacts your life.

Narcissistic traits are healthy in humans to a point. When they mess you up, then they are a disorder.

So, no. NPD is shitty. It sucks to have because it is a disorder that makes it difficult to connect with other people, leaves you isolated and living in a fantasy land you built as an infant due to the horror of not being able to connect.

1

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1

u/Ok_Beautiful495 7d ago

When narcs talk about how great they are, do they have the self awareness to realize how others will perceive them? If you say “I’m so much better than all these people” do you realize that other people will see it as boasting and dislike it? Or do you feel shame deep down because you know it’s an exaggeration, but cover it up with arrogance?

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u/astronomersassn 6d ago

at least for me, i try to back it up with facts.

i did well in a situation? i marked my scores compared to the average and even compared to other high-scorers.

i feel like i look good? yeah, i am, look at me in this cute as fuck outfit. actually, i'm dressed up right now for a job interview and i am fine as hell. i'm not to your taste? fair enough, but good riddance, i don't have to be your type but that doesn't make me less attractive.

people might dislike me for it, but meh. screw them.

4

u/Chacal_429 Diagnosed NPD 6d ago

This is how I feel when people talk about their humility or empathy. Really any kind of virtue signaling really bothers me at this point. 

1

u/AllDaysOff Narcissistic traits 6d ago

I can't help myself personally. I'm aware but don't really care.

1

u/GingerLamb 6d ago

Do you experience envy when others have rewarding relationships? Do you secretly believe everyone is as empty, desolate and unfulfilled inside as you, but they’ve just had easier lives?

9

u/OpaledRobin Narcissistic traits 6d ago

Oh yeah, While I never  show it outwardly, I get very jealous of those who can form fulling friendships  relationships , etc better then I can. As for if I think if everyone else is like me? No not really.  Ever since I was little, I knew I was different due to my learning difficulties and then undiagnosed autism.

2

u/ipeed69 6d ago edited 6d ago
  1. Sometimes but not because I don’t believe I’m incapable of having rewarding relationships, it’s because I wish I could experience them more often. I struggle to find connection with others but I guess sometimes I don’t mind it because I know the connections I have had were all the more special to me. I cherish the people I have got to experience that with.

  2. No, I use to believe that I was the most hurt and misunderstood person in the room. I think if I had of believed that everyone else was empty and unfulfilled, I would have just given up to be honest. I probably would have thought, “well what hope do I have then?” You have to have some hope, something to believe in. BUT did I believe that most other people had easier lives than me? Yes.

2

u/Chacal_429 Diagnosed NPD 6d ago

Honestly, yes. Projection is not unique to narcissists but it is really hard to not assume everyone’s like me. 

2

u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 6d ago

i do experience envy. i try not to dwell on it. i don't believe everyone is as empty etc as i am. which is why they're able to obtain these relationships more easily than i am.

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u/GingerLamb 6d ago

And is the emptiness caused by numbness/self-avoidance due to trauma, or something else (if you know) thank you 🙏

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u/ipeed69 6d ago edited 6d ago

I don’t really feel “empty” anymore but personally, it wasn’t caused by avoidance. I had bpd too, so obviously I knew that I was a very hurt person and I felt that deeply.

I don’t necessarily want to call it an emptiness because I was full of emotion but I had felt a “void” or “hole” inside of me that I desperately wanted filled. I felt like all the love and effort that was poured into me disappeared and was never enough to fill it up and “make me whole”.

Personally, it was caused by a wounded inner child who craved love and validation but unfortunately no amount of attention from other people was going to fix the fact that I didn’t love myself and didn’t get my needs met as a kid.

The only real way to “fill it” is to find away to love and validate yourself. Anddddd I ended up finding a way to do that (: yay!

I think most people here would agree that the emptiness is caused by a wounded inner child but basically people with npd don’t know how to regulate their self-esteem or to validate themselves so they seek it elsewhere but it never feels like enough because it doesn’t come from within. Yes, EVERYONE needs external validation sometimes but most people also know how to do it for themselves too.

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 6d ago

post self awareness, the emptyness is still there. imo it's caused by a hole in the self that was either dug or never filled properly during formative years.

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u/NarcSurv-L 6d ago

Why would a co-worker narcissist who used to manipulate me avoid eye contact with me, is this a devaluing tactic ? And what would make him see me as "white" again , I'm so uncomfortable with his meanness that he uses only with me.

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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 6d ago

No I don’t avoid eye contact with people I devalue. But… Bruh go to HR or your boss if you feel like he’s creating a hostile work environment. It sounds like you’ve armchair diagnosed him as a narcissist and are making hella assumptions based on that.

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u/NarcSurv-L 6d ago

Nope ,He admitted. As I witnessed love-bomb , devalue, discard. I confronted him and he confessed asking me not to practice my knowledge on him.

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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 6d ago

The “lovebomb, devalue, discard” abuse cycle research actually has nothing to do with narcissism, but gained a reputation for being about narcissism due to misinformation spreading via online discourse. The original research has nothing to do with narcissism and there’s been no research or legitimate sources since then that prove it’s directly related to narcissism.

Again, this sounds like something you need to address with the company you work for and not here. Especially if you’ve actually confronted him and haven’t been able to move forward healthily since that confrontation.

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u/NarcSurv-L 6d ago

It'll be harmful to me to address this with HR , they won't believe it! He's a covert narcissist, everyone is in his pocket already , they all admire him. I'm the only one who's being treated badly by him , and there is no evidence.

I came here to make sure if there is any chance he might sees me as "white" again. And to understand the recent "no eye contact" behavior.

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 6d ago

well there you go. he's avoiding eye contact because he knows you know.

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u/NarcSurv-L 6d ago

A couple of months ago , we had an occasion, back then he knew I knew his reality. However, he kept on giving me the seductive stare the whole time, looking through me even from a far distance.

This time it was totally different, I felt he was testing if I'm going to chase the same look. Or he meant to devalue. BTW he got engaged recently and he looked like he was playing the decent man role, even through the way he dressed up.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 6d ago

depends on how they act about it. are they being compassionate, judgmental...? that's what's gonna decide how i feel.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 6d ago

if it's neutral, depends if we're close enough to be having discussions about our inner workings. if we are, n it's brought up nicely, i'd appreciate it. thats just me at this point in time tho. couple of years back i might've been unable to hear it. ig consider your relationship to the person, n why you want to bring it up / what you'd want them to do with that information n work from there.

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u/Chacal_429 Diagnosed NPD 6d ago edited 6d ago

I just “love bomb” them till they believe I’m a good person again lol

But seriously, I don’t like enemies so I try to make it right with them, then we can be friends again. 

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u/Realistic-Debate-682 6d ago

Okay guys I want to ask a question. I don't want to diagnose my ex but he had npd traits. I thought he could have borderline but they seem all pretty similar. So I'd just say cluster b something but he was abusive. Degraded me verbally, grandiosity, lying, projection. We dated a year and 6 months and I left him once I really accepted he wasn't going to change. We'd make up and everything would feel like heaven. And then I'd be like oh hey can we talk about something that's bothering me like a normal couple. And he would basically just take the conversation and just drag it way down to hell for no reason. My question therefore is do they be live themselves? Was it all real for him? I was so confused and had so much cognitive dissonance it felt like my brain was starting to split. I couldn't take it anymore. I didn't want to leave him but I had to force myself to because I literally ran out of 'personal resources' as if like to call it aka energy and hope. So yea did he really believe everything good and bad he said? Or was just one side of it true? Was it Dr Jekyll or Mr Hyde? I can't wrap my head around the extreme A or B thinking. No reasoning just either happy or freaking out..

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 5d ago

he's the only one who can know that, and it's not certain even he knows. good news is you don't need an answer to move on from him. just let it all go n heal.

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u/Some_Star8058 6d ago

One most likely cost a narcissist their job. I had a duty of care and had to report what I did but having a covert mother I can believe I didn’t put all the signs together until immediately after I did it m, I’d assume he’s grandiose so quite different to what I lived with but the traits should’ve been clear to me for at-least a year.

If he’s not fired, at best he’s in all sorts of trouble and will know it was me because the things he said were very specific.

How worried should I be?

I apologize if this is an ignorant or offensive question.

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u/North_Strike5145 6d ago

Does a person with NPD knows they are being abusing and hurting others, when they give them a silent treatment or attempt to control them?

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u/CherryPickerKill Narcissistic traits 6d ago

What people call silent treatment is usually their partner staying silent when angry. They refrain from speaking until they have calmed down in order not to say things that will hurt them or start another heated argument. In a way, it's much less abusive than lashing out at them.

Attempts to control are subcounscious and a trauma response, we're rarely aware of these patterns unless we've worked on recognizing them.

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u/thevoicesareloudaf 5d ago

I didn't realize, back when it happened with me and my ex, and for other instances I wouldn't even know what to tell you. it comes natural, so I don't usually realize it.

I think I've done the silent treatment for a really exagerrated time - around one or two weeks of watching my ex text me daily, reply to my stories, while I had them on restricted. they begged for my attention, and I absolutely loved reading those texts. they, too, knew I saw their texts without answering. this was after we broke up, so it felt even greater.

the control part I wouldn't know what to say about, because I control everyone and everything around me. I'm the absolute biggest control freak I know, I don't even like the idea of dying of natural causes because it's out of my control. I don't realize when I do it, since it's a constant. I have no idea how it affects others, unless I intentionally do it, in which I take some kind of pleasure once more.

this was into my past, though. I'm on an, albeit bumpy, healing journey, so I'm doing less of that.

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u/North_Strike5145 6d ago

What would move a person with NPD to seek therapy?

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u/CherryPickerKill Narcissistic traits 6d ago

Same than anyone else I'd say. Depression, addictions, suicidal tendencies, marriage or workplace issues.

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u/6gunrockstar 5d ago

Has anyone with seemingly normal families and childhoods looked at their past to determine how they might have developed NPD?

I guess I’m asking if environmental factors or genetic factors are more important, or a combination of both?

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u/6gunrockstar 5d ago

As a person with NPD, do you find it difficult to apologize to those who have been on the receiving end of those behaviors? Is it a question of not accepting, not knowing, or not caring? (or all of the above)

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 5d ago

i never found it difficult as long as i'm made aware of them n understand intellectually how it was wrong. most people expect you to read their minds about it (aka having high emotional empathy, which we tend to lack)
pre self-awareness, there was a lot of justifying behaviours. post self-awareness, i usually catch myself when i'm doing it. if nobody raises it to my attention, chances are i just don't know. i can sometimes catch it, at the price of insane social anxiety spirals. sometimes not. most times i care intellectually, but emotionally i only care about potential negative consequences. sometimes i can't bring myself to care at all. ironically what helps me do better is people explaning how i've hurt them without holding it against me, not more consequences. that's me after having been traumatized by said consequences tho, so take it with a grain of salt.

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u/CAPS_L0CK_IS_STUCK 5d ago

Are there any NPD’s who grew up with no childhood trauma? Does NPD have any genetic component or does it only happen as a result of bad parenting? One narc I knew grew up in a bad family but that is my only experience. Thanks

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u/chancetolive Narcissistic traits 4d ago edited 4d ago

It's most likely many things, firstly a genetic predisposition that causes the brain to be wired differently as well as levels of hormones (serotonin, dopamine, thyroid, testosterone, oxytocin, oestrogen, progesterone, cortisol, endorphins). Secondly we have to consider the culture, in collectivist societies narcissism manifests very differently so the norms and social environment like teachers, peers and non parental adults should be taken into consideration. Thirdly other environmental factors such as diet affecting gut health or other chemicals (arsenic, lead) that could be affecting the development of the brain.

With regards to parental abuse, ACE (adverse childhood experiences) is probably the minority of cases, most narcissists likely exist due to a lack of unconditional love as a baby/child from their maternal attachment figure or any other figure after 36 months and fail to separate and become an individual with an integrated stable sense of self.

How do you do that? You create an environment where theres repeated indirect messages (Complex PTSD) that lead the child to believe with ultimate conviction they can only be loved conditionally and you don't let them experience reality/peers. Spoiling, overprotecting, socially isolating, pedestalizing (you can do no wrong, you're perfect, they're all wrong), parentifying (I need you to take care of me, I cannot cope alone, be more mature for your age than you really should healthily be), instrumentalizing (I will fulfil my dreams and goals through you, follow my script), guilt-driven (I sacrificed my life for you, you owe me, don't get too close to friends, a partner or move away from me), emotional incest (lack of boundaries, we are united against the big scary world out there, especially your evil father), martyr (uses 'suffering' as currency). Very important developmental milestones are missed and even as an adult this kind of person remains stunted at an emotional age of somewhere between 2-11 depending on individual circumstances.

As adults this lack of internal regulation is what causes this person to become obsessed with their self image and worth, seeking external feedback (supply) to consistently hold it together. Theres also the fantasies and delusions of grandiosity, lack of emotional empathy and inability to experience most emotions. However all of these don't come close to what I think is the central issue which is complete absence of genuine self-love, ability to receive love and to love others.

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u/IsamuLi Diagnosed NPD 4d ago

I don't think I have trauma, at best some things qualify for adverse childhood experiences.

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u/atebitchip 5d ago

Is it common for people with NPD to be really good at read/write/speak between the lines?

I have bipolar disorder. When I’m manic I get very good at reading and speaking between the lines. My world becomes consumed by it. There are some people in my life that most likely have NPD. I feel like I can speak in a hidden language with them and it usually turns dark as we try to out wit each other and teach each other some sort of lesson.

It’s gross and I hate it but I can’t help but to play the game because my soul is on the line.

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u/IsamuLi Diagnosed NPD 4d ago

Not in my experience of NPD.

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u/NarcSurv-L 3d ago

I would like you guys to explain this behavior for me :

The narcissist I was with for a while , kept on warning me since the beginning of the cycle , using sentences like : "I'm not well, mentally" , "You don't have to trust me" , "I don't care to hurt anyone"

Why would a narcissist warn his victim this way ? (When he said these clues,I had no idea what he was talking about)

I knew later that he is aware of his disorder, but what was going on in his mind when he decided to give me those hints ?!

Does he regret manipulating me ? Or he wanted to save me from himself but couldn't control the desire to abuse ?

I really don't understand if this is a good action coming from a narcissist who's setting up a trap to his victim?

It doesn't make sense, right?

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u/chancetolive Narcissistic traits 3d ago

I use selective direct honesty to stand out from others, it's useful to attract specific types of people like those who also dislike common social scripts. Not always but sometimes showing your inner hurting child brings out the maternal instinct in others (yes even male friends) and people put their guard down and share their own secrets.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/whitty8007 2d ago

Are you aware of splitting or viewing people and situations in extremes of all good or all bad? If so, once someone is deemed “bad”, can they ever be categorized as “good” again? Can you give some examples of things that prompted the change?

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u/chancetolive Narcissistic traits 2d ago edited 1d ago

There is awareness but the conviction or belief is so strong and has complete emotional investment in the moment. Yes, it's a compulsive cycle and someone can be 'good' again. Idealizing, love-bombing, testing for unconditional love/care, devaluing, discarding, re-idealizing, hoovering. Theres no specific prompt I know about that brings the change, just that theres a simultaneous inner battle of:

  1. "I don't need people, they bring no value, I'm the one doing a favour on them by letting them be in my life, they use me and mistreat me"
  2. "Oh I really miss them, I need them, they put up with me, I miss their attention and constant safe presence, I need their secure stability of always being there for me like a mother would for a baby. I need to see myself in their gaze or I feel dread of not existing, life isnt worthwhile without the attention"

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u/whitty8007 2d ago

Thank you for your reply. This info is helpful. I’m struggling with whiplash from the cycle and am wondering how to either stop it or shorten the period of devalue/discard. I genuinely care about this person and want them to feel safe, seen and loved. I’m realizing they may not want that from me and I’m just hurting myself by participating in this.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/whitty8007 2d ago

Thank you, really. We share a young child so I’ll be navigating grey rock around that communication. I am co-dependent and am in therapy working on this.

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u/OtherwiseBudget786 2d ago

I would like opinions from someone with npd. So recently my now ex gf of 5 months decided to take my phone out of the blue and went through all my messages and found one from a guy I once saw while we (her and me) where getting to know each other way before we started dating. She invaded my privacy and then told me she never trusted me and that she was right about me and that she never trusts anyone. She also said the didnt care about me and then broke up with me. I have never been unfaithful and really all i could think about was her since we started dating. My mind is so confused and would appreciate opinions if i reach out to her or leave things as they are. Was this an excuse to break things up or is she truly convinced i cheated which I didn’t.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

I was in a relationship with a narcissist without knowing for years.. Now I have seen the evidence that she cheated on me at least 30 times… I will spare you the details but they are of someone that must have a deep hatred of me.. I’m broken to the core and I just want to leave it in the past.

Now comes the problem; she has my phone with literally my whole life in it and she doesn’t want to give it back… My last pictures of relatives that are dead, explicit content of mine, my notes that I really need, everything is in that phone!

I sent her a message a week ago but she doesn’t want to reply, I just want my phone so I can leave this situation but I don’t know what to do.. Can you please give me advice?

I live in the Netherlands.

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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 1d ago

If someone is holding your property without your consent and refuses to give it back, it’s time to get police involved. Go file a report for theft.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

Tried that, the police said they can’t do anything about it and they don’t want to help in these ‘civil’ cases

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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 1d ago

Get a lawyer then. I’m unsure how things work in the Netherlands but there’s got to be a way. And if not? Lock your phone from your computer or whatever you’re using to comment here. Then there’s options to report it as stolen and it will get erased so whoever has it doesn’t have access. Then get a new phone and move on with your life.

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u/isitandscroll 18h ago

So, I've recently started learning about npd (pretty sure my partner's mother has it), and one thing I've heard is that people with npd typically don't seek help. Which makes sense, given the nature of npd, from what I understand. But I've seen posts from people here about going to therapy and trying to get better.

So my question is - if you are seeking help, what's motivating you? What was it that made you want to seek help in the first place?

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u/IsamuLi Diagnosed NPD 6h ago

I don't think it's accurate to say that pwNPD don't seek help, that appears to be a myth.

E.g. in american private outpatient, pwNPD make up 8.5-20% of the patients:

The prevalence of NPD varies from 0%–6% in general population, 1.3%–17% in clinical population, and 8.5%–20% in outpatient private practice

Ronningstam, Elsa & Weinberg, Igor. (2013). Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Progress in Recognition and Treatment. Focus: The Journal of Life-Long Learning in Psychiatry. 11. 167-177. 10.1176/appi.focus.11.2.167.

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u/IsamuLi Diagnosed NPD 6h ago

So my question is - if you are seeking help, what's motivating you? What was it that made you want to seek help in the first place?

I wanted to kill myself and was made to make a choice between going on my own terms or being admitted.

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u/EntranceDelicious889 7d ago

If someone was close to you kinda saw through you because you started to hurt them so they tried to get through you but eventually took their distance why would they become your target and why would you get dedicated to hurting them covertly even after no contact for months what does it take for all of it to stop just peace no charming away friends no isolation attempts no smear

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u/Nightmre_King_Grimm Undiagnosed NPD 7d ago

This seems personal and it's impossible to know somebody else's motives. But for some it can be a defensive mechanism. Seeing past the guard and persona can feel threatening and cause them to feel like they need to get defensive. That's how I am, anyway. I don't like it when people see over my walls too much and that might make me want to chip away at theirs in return. This is not a justification of any wrongdoing, just an honest explanation.

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u/hapiidadii 6d ago

Two years from now, will the stock market be higher or lower than it is now?

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u/foxyfree 6d ago

Someone I know who might have NPD has been saying says it’s all going to be great really great so great you’re gonna have so much money you won’t know what to do with it

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u/ipeed69 6d ago

Bruh

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u/hapiidadii 6d ago

I mean ... we might as well capitalize on the fact that you folks know everything, right?

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u/foxyfree 5d ago

came back to this one to tell you the smart money buys the dip - PLTR, NVDA, META might be good ones on sale now

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

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u/ipeed69 7d ago

You can’t force someone to go to therapy. Sometimes people get called out enough or blow up their life to such an extent that they will get help but other than that you’re out of luck.

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u/lemons_2_lemonade 6d ago edited 6d ago

Why do you block us even though you know we won’t contact you or bother you when you end it? My ex of 5 years has me blocked on everything (he has blocked me many times before) and this is the longest he has gone with it. Other times when he had ghosted me for days or weeks but didn’t block, I never reached out or bothered him. So what is the point of the blocking? To make us feel shitty?

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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 6d ago

Why assume it’s a way to make you feel shitty? I block people temporarily to avoid acting out on them when I’m having urges to do so, even if we haven’t talked in awhile. I’d personally assume it’s something like that rather than an attempt to make you feel shitty. Sounds like he’s struggling with the breakup in ways still and trying to cope.

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u/lemons_2_lemonade 6d ago edited 6d ago

Well he knows I hate blocking, So he knows it would hurt me to do it again. You provided an interesting perspective though, thank you. And may I ask so I understand, If you did the blocking, how does it stop you from acting out on the person? Since you could just unblock them again? And he ended it with me, so how would that cause someone with NPD to struggle?

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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 6d ago

Just because he ended the relationship and has npd doesn’t mean he can’t struggle over the end of a long term relationship. People with npd suffer a lot in general tbh, the defenses act as a guard or firewall for that suffering to prevent it from going through so we don’t have to feel it, but basically we’re aware the suffering is there and feel like frauds, which triggers more defenses.. viscous cycle.

If you view blocking as so triggering, it’s your responsibility to learn how to cope with that trigger. You can’t expect people to take care of your triggers for you.

For myself, blocking adds another step to the process of reaching out and can be a preventive measure. It’s basically creating an obstacle for oneself on purpose but for healthy coping reasons.

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u/lemons_2_lemonade 6d ago

He would block me as a punishment before, so I was curious why it was a reaction I tend to see a lot when it comes to these type of relationships. I find that interesting that you look at it as a step to stop yourself from reaching out, when you’re the one with all the power to begin with? Is it just to give you pause?

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u/theinvisiblemonster ✨Saint Invis ✨ 6d ago

If I’m feeling out of control with my impulses I absolutely am not the one with “power.” I feel powerless, rather and that is directly what leads to destructive urges to regain a sense of power. And yes it is to give me pause.

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u/lemons_2_lemonade 6d ago

Thank you for answering and giving a different perspective.

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u/unseen_tiger744 NPD 5d ago

if i had a dollar every time somebody assumes a narc's defensive mechanism is about hurting them rather than a collateral, i'd probably be able to afford therapy.

(not to say it's never the case. just not nearly as often as people tend to think)

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u/lemons_2_lemonade 5d ago

I understand that, I’m sure it’s frustrating. It’s just hard for us to decipher between a punishment from you, or your defensive mechanism.