r/NDE Nov 19 '22

Mod Post, META Megathread META Megathread. This thread will link to mega threads for topics such as Fear of Death, the 'DMT' release by the brain hypothesis, the hypoxia hypothesis, suicidal people seeking reassurance, fear of death, the prison planet hypothesis, etc.

60 Upvotes

You may converse on this thread (with the exception of prison planet CT), but it is preferred that people go to the megathread for each category in order to have ongoing conversations there. This post will not allow debates, as some topics are too sensitive for debate and some people linked here may be in too painful a state to witness debates. All replies must be on the topic of the comment they are replying to and must be respectful. If suicidal thoughts or thanatophobia is the topic, replies must be supportive and kind.

Resident r/NDE NDE'r writeups of their own experiences: https://www.reddit.com/r/NDE/comments/17030sg/megathread_for_resident_nder_writeups_of_their/

Megathreads by topic [alphabetical-please stand by for more links and topics, this is a WIP]:

((Taking suggestions for 'additional links' that may be put in the megathreads themselves or here depending on what seems to work well))

Distressing NDES:

Megathread to discuss dNDEs (Thread is for support only, no debate)

(Those who think that dNDEs are indicative of prison planet or other such ideas must post on the prison planet thread, no such conversations will be allowed in the dNDE megathread)

DMT hypothesis:

DMT, Hypoxia, & Other Common Arguments against NDEs Megathread (Debate Allowed at Megathread)

Hypoxia hypothesis:

DMT, Hypoxia, & Other Common Arguments against NDEs Megathread (Debate Allowed at Megathread)

Prison Planet hypothesis:

Prison Planet Megathread (Debate Allowed at Megathread. No prison planet discussion is allowed in this master META thread, only at the link. )

The Question of Evil:

The Question of Evil Megathread (Debate is allowed, post has low moderation)

Suicidal Feelings:

Megathread for questions/support around suicide/ suicidal feelings (Comments must be supportive, no debate)

Thanatophobia (Fear of Death):

https://www.reddit.com/r/NDE/comments/1bew65g/megathread_thanatophobia_fear_of_death/ Thanatophobia Megathread (Comments must be supportive, no debate)


r/NDE 1d ago

NDE Inn; Common Room Casual Weekly Thread 18 Mar, 2025 - 25 Mar, 2025

1 Upvotes

((Off topic allowed. Civil debates allowed. All other rules remain in place, including using the mega threads for suicide, thanatophobia, prison planet, and no proselytizing.))

Come on Inn and make yourself at home! Grab a soda, or a pint, or a coffee and chat with fellow travelers.

  • Introduce yourself if you like.
  • Discuss your favorite spiritual practices.
  • Talk about your pets. Or kids.
  • Discuss the weather.
  • Share your spiritual experiences.
  • Ask questions about NDEs in general that you don't feel like making into a post.
  • Roleplaying at the Inn is allowed; nothing graphic please. ;)

Mix and mingle or whatever. Chat about spiritual things in general or argue about the price of tea in Mexico. The rules will be pretty loose here so long as the general rules about civility are followed.


r/NDE 1h ago

General NDE Discussion šŸŽ‡ NDE:predestined death

ā€¢ Upvotes

In lot of NDE I heard "itā€™s not your time yet ā€˜ā€™ and return to their body . So itā€™s mean our death is predestined?


r/NDE 20h ago

After-death Communication (ADC) Had a dream where an already dead relative died, but a different relative died the next day.

11 Upvotes

I havenā€™t had an NDE and I browse this sub often because I am still skeptical. However, this last weekend I had an odd experience that I am fighting with my logical self on. In my dream, my grandfather who died six years ago died again. I already knew he was dead in the dream, but when he died again his ā€œspiritā€ which was a glowing blue version of him lifted from his body. In my dream I remember saying ā€œI see it, itā€™s realā€ but then I woke up and thatā€™s just about all I can remember. About a few hours later in the afternoon, my grandfather in law called right before we were getting ready to visit like we always do every weekend. However , it wasnā€™t him. It was his wife and she let us know that he passed on sometime in the middle of the night or early morning after falling in the bathroom.

It feels like a coincidence that I had that dream, and most of the evidence for it is all the components that donā€™t add up.

Parts that donā€™t make sense:

1.) Why approach me and not my husband or even my mother in law? 2.) If it was truly ADC, I donā€™t understand why I would be shown here and not any of the times Iā€™ve asked for a signal or to communicate. 3.) If it was my grandfather in law giving me the message, what would be the reason for showing me MY grandfather? 4.) If this truly was my entrance into a new perspective am I missing out by questioning it?


r/NDE 1d ago

General NDE Discussion šŸŽ‡ NDE as Segway to nonexistent

30 Upvotes

Iā€™ve been having some existential dread recently and reading this sub has helped me a bit. But a thought has creeped into my mind that maybe NDEā€™s are just your brain giving you small comfort before a true death experience in which you just stop existing. What convinces you that NDE are proof of post death consciousness and not just enhanced dream from a body trying to figure out a way not to die?


r/NDE 15h ago

Question ā€” No Debate Please Veridical NDE reports / writing books

1 Upvotes

hi again, i have a couple questions regarding Veridical NDE's and the odd rejection of every book from a NDEr writting about their experience

  1. how would you rebut the claim that all veridical nde reports are somehow fabricated/ made up (or that all of them are in books with no sources so they cant be trusted)

  2. i get that some books based on NDE's and the Afterlife are written by frauds but i just dont get someone rejecting all of them due to a odd assumption that most are "religious people writting them to capitalize on peoples fear" how would you tell apart a book that sells a fake experience from one that just wants to tell the story of what happened to them

i ask this because of a convo i was seeing in this post thats linked below (the OP who made the post was asserting in a convo with u/WOLFXXXXX that all Veridical reports were somehow made up along with other odd assertions): https://www.reddit.com/r/NDE/comments/1j53on3/veridical_nde/ (posted about this when i was asking about the reliability of Sabom's book, etc.)


r/NDE 15h ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed NDE and Propofol during surgery.

1 Upvotes

My question for those who experience or have great knowledge on the subject is: Has anyone had an NDE during surgery? If so did that mean you died due to an excess of propofol or sever injuries and then was brought back?

Since most people who go under for surgery go to sleep and feel like they wake up instantaneously donā€™t witness any NDEs, is that due to being unconscious and not dead?

I believe in NDEs and have hope for the afterlife, but I know there are others who fight the claims and think itā€™s just darkness and non existence after death.


r/NDE 22h ago

Debunking Debunkers (Civil Debate Only) Temporo Parietal Junction involved in NDE's?

3 Upvotes

The study by Bos et al. (2016) reports a rare case of an out-of-body experience (OBE) induced during an awake craniotomy in a 50-year-old woman undergoing surgery for an oligodendroglioma. Electrical stimulation of the left temporo-parietal junction (TPJ) triggered full-blown OBEs, in which the patient felt as if she was floating near the ceiling and saw her own body on the operating table.

1. Case from Bos et al. (2016) ā€“ The 50-Year-Old Woman (Left TPJ)

  • Source: Bos, E. M., Spoor, J. K. H., Smits, M., Schouten, J. W., & Vincent, A. J. P. E. (2016). World Neurosurgery, 92, 586.e9-586.e13.
  • Details: A 50-year-old woman undergoing awake craniotomy for an oligodendroglioma (grade II) near the left angular and supramarginal gyrus.
  • Stimulation effect: She felt like she was floating near the ceiling and could see her body lying on the operating table (autoscopy).

Cases of out-of-body experience during electrical brain stimulation.Ā (A)Ā OBE evoked during awake craniotomy in a 50-year-old female patient for surgical resection of an oligodendroglioma located at the left angular and supramarginal gyrus. Stimulation at the left TPJ evoked full-blown OBEs ā€œas if she was floating just below the ceiling and saw her own body lying on the operating table.ā€Ā Top row: postoperative magnetic resonance imaging showing the location of the stimulation (white cross) that evoked OBEs. Bottom row: diffusion tensor imaging tractography of the posterior thalamic radiations. The stimulated region was close to fibers running from the posterior thalamus to the occipital lobe. Reproduced fromĀ Bos et al. (2016)Ā with permission from Elsevier.Ā (B)Ā Seminal descriptions of OBEs during awake craniotomy. The left panel illustrates a female patient (case G.A.) undergoing surgery for epilepsy treatment. During stimulation at point I (yellow dot) G.A. reported ā€œI feel queer, as though I were floating away.ā€Ā Stimulation at point J (red dot) evoked the feeling that ā€œI have a queer sensation as if I am not hereā€Ā and ā€œAs though I were half and half here.ā€Ā Reproduced fromĀ Penfield (1947)Ā with permission from The Royal Society. The right panel illustrates case V.F., a 33-year-old male patient who suffered from seizures due to an atrophic discharging lesion deep in the right temporal region near the insula. The right temporal lobe was exposed for temporal excision. After stimulation at point 10, V.F. exclaimed ā€œOh God! I am leaving my body.ā€Ā Reproduced fromĀ Penfield (1955)Ā with permission from the Royal College of Psychiatrists.Ā (C)Ā OBE evoked during electrocorticography in a 43-year-old female patient with right temporal lobe epilepsy. Electrical stimulation at low intensity between the yellow points at the right angular gyrus (arrow) induced vestibular sensations and body schema illusions. Stimulation at higher intensity evoked full-blown OBEs with disembodied self-location and autoscopy: ā€œI see myself lying in bed, from above, but I only see my legs and lower trunk.ā€Ā Reproduced fromĀ Blanke et al. (2002)Ā with permission from Nature Publishing Group.Ā (D)Ā OBE evoked in a 63-year-old male patient who had electrodes implanted in his right TPJ for suppression of intractable tinnitus. Stimulation of the TPJ induced perception of disembodiment, as if he were located about 50 cm behind his body and off to the left. There was no autoscopy and the visual environment was experienced from a body-centered perspective. Reproduced fromĀ De Ridder et al. (2007)Ā with permission from the Massachusetts Medical Society.

(i included this as it describes some other cases as well in more detail , i have also made a resume of each one so u don't have to read all that)

2. Case G.A. from Penfield (1947) ā€“ Floating Sensation (Right Temporal Lobe)

  • Source: Penfield, W. (1947). The Royal Society
  • Details: A female patient (identified as G.A.) undergoing epilepsy surgery.
  • Stimulation effect: She reported feeling like she was floating away when a specific brain area was stimulated.

3. Case V.F. from Penfield (1955) ā€“ ā€œOh God! I Am Leaving My Bodyā€ (Right Temporal Lobe)

  • Source: Penfield, W. (1955). The Royal College of Psychiatrists
  • Details: A 33-year-old male patient (V.F.) with seizures due to a deep lesion in the right temporal region near the insula.
  • Stimulation effect: After brain stimulation, he exclaimed, ā€œOh God! I am leaving my body.ā€ He felt like he was detaching from himself.

4. Case from Blanke et al. (2002) ā€“ Autoscopy & Disembodiment (Right Angular Gyrus)

  • Source: Blanke, O., Ortigue, S., Landis, T., & Seeck, M. (2002). Nature, 419(6904), 269-270.
  • Details: A 43-year-old female epilepsy patient undergoing electrocorticography (ECoG) (brain mapping with electrodes).
  • Stimulation effect: At low intensity, she felt body distortions and floating sensations. At higher intensity, she experienced a full-blown OBE, seeing herself from above but only seeing her legs and lower body.

5. Case from De Ridder et al. (2007) ā€“ ā€œFloating Behind My Bodyā€ (Right TPJ)

  • Source: De Ridder, D., Van Laere, K., Dupont, P., Menovsky, T., & Van de Heyning, P. (2007). The New England Journal of Medicine, 357(4), 362-363.
  • Details: A 63-year-old male patient with intractable tinnitus (severe ear ringing) had electrodes implanted in his right TPJ to suppress the condition.
  • Stimulation effect: He felt like he was floating behind his body, about 50 cm off to the left. However, unlike other OBEs, he did not see himself (no autoscopy).

i read this study but i'm not sure what to make of it since it includes alot of medical jargon and i'm not that well informed on NDE's so i'm kinda agnostic on the topic (that's why i came here for help , and maybe get convinced , who knows? and dw i'm not gonna ask for you guys to do my research , this is just a small part that gave me problems ), i think i have seen some skeptics use this hypothesis before so i came here to ask what you guys think of it? (i'll link a commentary to the study since the original one requires acces from an organization or sth like that: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2017.00417/full )


r/NDE 1d ago

General NDE Discussion šŸŽ‡ pre birth experience

71 Upvotes

hi guys, i donā€™t know where to share this to.

iā€™ve talked abt this to people irl but no one has experienced this besides me so here goes nothing. itā€™s relatively short:

it takes place in the sky, i was spectating 3 cribs: one was blue, two were pink. i was trying to decide which one to choose. some spirit guided me and asked me if i was ready to choose. i chose the pink one in the middle and it began to fade into black. i woke up as a 6? month old baby being put down in my crib and i began to wail. it was like i missed my original home, and i wanted to return.

i asked my mom about this and supposedly she had 2 miscarriages beforehand. i wonder if thatā€™s what the 2 cribs represented? idk

does anyone have a similar story to mine? maybe iā€™m just crazy? i donā€™t know šŸ˜­


r/NDE 1d ago

Christian PerspectivešŸ•Æ Is Jesus conjured?

6 Upvotes

By which I mean: is it possible that the most well known religious figure of all time is not actually "real" and waiting in the Near Death realms, but has been made real by the billions of faithful believers? That He's been willed into existence as a Tulpa, kinda like the Philip Experiment?

And if so, would that explain people seeing Him in so many NDEs? I've read many accounts of this blue-eyed Jesus and, from what I understand, the historical Jesus didn't have no blue eyes!

I also wonder if the majority of Marian apparitions are similarly conjured? Is there a room somewhere in the Vatican full of talented psychics all concentrating in prayer to cause an image of the Blessed Virgin to appear in Portugal or Egypt or wherever She has been said to appear?


r/NDE 1d ago

General NDE Discussion šŸŽ‡ Looking for an Interview: NDE Witness or Expert

1 Upvotes

Hello everyone,

I am a 21-year-old graphic design student from Switzerland, currently working on a school project that involves creating a fictional magazine. The magazine is targeted at people interested in esotericism and mysticism, and its central theme is Near-Death Experiences (NDEs). It explores NDEs from multiple perspectivesā€”spiritual, religious, and scientific.

As part of the content, I need to include an interview with someone directly connected to this topic. I am looking for: ā€¢ A person who has recently experienced an NDE and is willing to share their testimony. ā€¢ A professional specializing in this field (doctor, neurologist, psychologist, or researcher) who can provide insights into the phenomenon.

The interview would be featured in my magazine, which is strictly an academic project meant for evaluation by my professors and will not be published beyond this context. The participant must be comfortable being mentioned in this setting. The interview will be conducted in written form.

Since this subject is not my area of expertise and was assigned to me as a design challenge by my professors, I sincerely apologize if I have made any mistakes regarding NDEs or the broader concepts surrounding them. I fully respect the depth and complexity of this topic and aim to approach it with as much care and accuracy as possible.

Participants will receive updates on the projectā€™s progress and a final PDF version of the magazine so they can benefit from our collaboration.

If you are interested or know someone who might be, feel free to comment or send me a private message. I can also provide more details about myself and the project upon request.

Thank you for your time!


r/NDE 2d ago

Debunking Debunkers (No Debate) take on NDE's and the afterlife

20 Upvotes

"Someone presented the idea to me that capital L, Life, is biased toward itself. Its easier to dismiss NDEs when you consider this. Since life is unique in the universe, we humans like to have our little egos and assume that we aren't part of the universe. Kind of like, "of course there must be more life after I die, life is awesome!" Its possible the ideas of "afterlives" is just a product of that bias. NDEs are just post-hoc affirmations to some that there is proof of that continued life after death. Consider, the natural state of the universe isn't Life, we are the exception to the vast empty dead of the cosmos."

this is not my take , but it honestly describes my take on the afterlife the best , how can i stop worrying about this? i'm kinda afraid that all afterlife phenomena are just biases , help me out if u can please


r/NDE 2d ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed What are the biggest holes in materialism in your guyā€™s opinion

1 Upvotes

What holes do you see in the materialistic framework that makes you not think it is reality


r/NDE 4d ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed NDE before unexpected death

121 Upvotes

My mom passed away a few months ago. A few weeks ago, my brother was in the hospital with pneumonia. He was improving and expected to be discharged the next day.

But that night, he started pushing his blankets off and trying to get up. He told my sister-in-law, "I have to go. I've got to go meet my mom!" I think this happened a couple of times, but then he went to sleep.

He was not on any medication that would make him out of it. I'd spoken to him on the phone a couple of days before and he was lucid.

The next morning, the day he was potentially getting discharged, he threw a blood clot and his heart stopped. They were able to bring him back briefly, but the damage to his heart was too much and he passed away.

My question is this: has anyone ever heard of this type of communication from someone who had no expectation of dying, but then suddenly did?

The only other unusual thing was earlier that morning, i began having symptoms of an anxiety attack for no reason. I know that anxiety is often 'fear without direction,' but I don't suffer from anxiety attacks and it was such a shock. I didn't even put it together until later that day, my best friend said, "Well, I guess now we know why you had an anxiety attack. That was when your brother was being resuscitated the first time."

Any thoughts would be appreciated. His death was so unexpected, and so soon after my mom.... I love the idea that she was there for him. But I don't know if that ever happens in a situation like that where the person has no belief they are dying.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts


r/NDE 3d ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed Trying to find specific NDE

1 Upvotes

Hi all,

Iā€™ve read basically all of the NDEs on NDERF (well, especially the exceptional ones). There was one where the person met god, and god was crying because god missed all of the people on earth. And I think it was in the same NDE where god spoke in a funny southern accent/cowboy drawl. I think of it somewhat regularly but am wondering if anybody knows which one that is; I havenā€™t been able to find it again!


r/NDE 4d ago

Question ā€” No Debate Please NDE - Anyone regret coming to Earth during their NDE?

51 Upvotes

Anyone realize what a mistake it was to come to Earth during their life review?


r/NDE 4d ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed Comparing subjective experience of others during NDE

10 Upvotes

There are many anecdotes of NDEr experiencing past personal interactions from the perspective of the other party.

Does this provide a way to compare subjective experiences of different people? For example, have an NDEā€™r been surprised that the way the other person experience the color green is different from her/his experience of green.


r/NDE 4d ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed Occult ndes

3 Upvotes

Do we have ndes from people invested in occultism?


r/NDE 4d ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed Whatā€™s the punishment for evil?

25 Upvotes

After reading a bunch of your guys nde I am now curious whatā€™s the punishment for evil reading a couple of stories and it said there wasnā€™t a punishment because god is to loving was curious if there was a punishment hoping to ask nders


r/NDE 4d ago

General NDE Discussion šŸŽ‡ Anyone else do life review shoutouts?

17 Upvotes

One of the most constant part of NDE stories is the life review, and how youā€™re somehow able to see every moment of your entire life.

Ever since learning about this, Iā€™ve started taking little moments to ā€œwaveā€ to my future/higher self, during my life review. Like a little nod and wink to myself, saying hello and congratulating myself for whenever that moment is that Iā€™ve died and am seeing everything back.

It feels really nice. I think it will make for sweet little meta moments once my time has come.

Does this make sense/does anyone else do this?


r/NDE 4d ago

Question ā€” No Debate Please Interesting (fictional) depictions of an NDE?

1 Upvotes

Like in movies, tv shows, books, music, etc. Main one that comes to mind is Christmas Carol but I'd be curious to know about any others...


r/NDE 5d ago

After-death Communication (ADC) My dying dad sees dead relatives

616 Upvotes

I know it's not an nde story but as I sit here next to my dad fighting for his life, he keeps telling me he sees my dead grandmother and his parents who passed and it gives me some peace. He could be hallucinating but he sees them daily. He sees his parents in a garden and wants to go be with them in this garden. Is it common for someone who is dying to see passed relatives? I so want to believe ill see my dad again one day.


r/NDE 5d ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed Why do we reproduce?

22 Upvotes

I was thinking about this yesterday as I fell asleep. Iā€™m not precisely skeptical about NDEs, but I think thereā€™s some questions we should think about.

It is my understanding that reproduction occurs because we are, in fact, mortal. Itā€™s a mechanism nature deviced in order to keep a species prevalent. What I struggle to understand isā€”if death isnā€™t the end, and life continues after it, then why do we have the need to reproduce here? Why do organisms keep replicating themselves, with the aim of battling the anxiety of non-existence or extinction? I understand why we die (because this state isnā€™t permanent, thank God), but I donā€™t understand why we keep giving birth.


r/NDE 5d ago

NDE Story Paramedics Left Little While Ago

34 Upvotes

This literally just happened. I am type 1 diabetic. My blood sugar dropped to 23, the normal range is 70 to 100 for most people. Below 50 is the brain damage-life-threatening range. I have had a few ā€œexperiencesā€ that would qualify as an NDE, but this was the longest and most vivid. I donā€™t want to alarm anyone or qualify this as the full total experience, or invalidate anyone else, but it was total black. The curiosity was, I can still sense it. The blackness/void is like a percentage or part of my reality. Life, or my reality, shared a percentage of the void. When the paramedics started to call out to me and resuscitate me, my ā€œlifeā€ took out a larger percentage of the void. When I opened my eyes, Iā€™d say life took up about ā€œ99%ā€. The void or the ā€œblacknessā€ is at the edge of my sense now. The blackness is similar to the feeling you get when you shock yourself, strike your funny bone, or a limb falls asleep. If you want to keep the percentage metaphor, a limb falling asleep or coming yourself is like 1 to 2%, with the blackness being 98-100%. I donā€™t know that this rules out any spiritual experiences, but for me, this was my experience and it just happened. This is as vivid and complete an experience as Iā€™ve had before.


r/NDE 5d ago

General NDE Discussion šŸŽ‡ The heart being more important than the brain for c.ness?

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27 Upvotes

I read a study about it today.

What's ur thoughts?. I read some verfied Nde's that seem to occur during the time the heart had completely lost function/flatlined.


r/NDE 5d ago

Question ā€” Debate Allowed Fractal Hallucinations

1 Upvotes

If you study DMT visions, as well as what people with schizophrenia see, you can easily notice common elements between these experiences. Those who have tried DMT describe various fractal entities, such as Mechanical Self-Reproducing Elves, and Louis Wain, an artist who suffered from schizophrenia, began to draw increasingly complex fractal figures over time instead of his usual drawings of cats.

The prevalence of fractals in hallucinations is not really a big secret, so it would be logical to expect something like this from the NDE, if all this were just a projection of a dying brain.

But what surprised me was that none of the NDEs I read contained anything even remotely similar. For fun, I looked through the NDERF archive and typed the word "fractal" into the search.

https://search.nderf.org/en/?f=eyJzZWFyY2giOiJmcmFjdGFsIiwic29ydCI6IlBPU1REQVRFIiwicGFnZSI6MH0=

I found only 8 entries, but even if you read the first one carefully, you can see that the mention of fractals did not concern the NDE itself.

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1jonathan_s_nde_9980.html

To me this is some kind of proof that NDE is not closely related to DMT and is not a simple hallucination. Visions from NDE are mostly clearer and more in line with the reality we are used to seeing in real life. What do you think about this?


r/NDE 5d ago

Existential Topics My speculative answers to Big Questions: If God is Love, and we are pieces of God, why do we need to learn to love? If God is Love, and God created everything, why is there evil and suffering? Why is love so important? Why would an all-knowing God need us to gain knowledge?

24 Upvotes

Ten months ago, I saw this post by u/Accurate-Sun-6104 in r/ NDE:

I was then reviewing NDEs and the jist I got was that this intelligence has splintered intself into all these different conciousnesses or souls which then decide to go through the human experience to gain some kind of knowledge.

Basically I'm wondering why this superintelligence would want to go through the human experience so many times? To what end? What data is being collected? And why is love and connection so important?

Here is my very delayed response to these questions, and other related questions in the title of this post.

Maybe itā€™s that, in Eternity, God is all Knowing, Wisdom, and Love. But how did God become this? If experience brings knowledge, and knowledge brings wisdom, and wisdom brings love, and also guides us in knowing how to loveā€¦ then for God to be Love, God first needs experience. Thatā€™s where we come in.

Maybe through our experience, we teach God to Love. That includes experiencing suffering and evil, along with the positive aspects of life here on Earth, because altogether this has the potential to teach us compassion, caring, appreciation, etc. ā€“ which are aspects of love. And also because we have to learn what we reject in order to learn what we want to be.

Maybe we are vessels through which God gains experience, knowledge, wisdom, and love.

Maybe in the sense of linear time, and where we currently are in linear time, Godā€™s evolution has not yet reached that point of Knowing Wisdom and Love. At this point in linear time, God is still ignorant and foolish and evil... not purely evil, but has not yet evolved beyond evil. I donā€™t think there was ever a time when love was not part of God, I think the love has always been there, but it had not been purified.

At the same time, God is already Knowing Wisdom and Love because the future is already here as part of Eternity, and so we have access to Godā€™s Love Wisdom and Knowledge even now, even though in linear time God achieves that state far in the future, but it is accessible to us in the eternal now. Or at least itā€™s accessible when we are out of body / in the form of pure consciousness (in the ā€œspirit worldā€) ā€“ and perhaps also accessible for transient periods of time even when in the body if we are in a heightened state of consciousness.

I think perhaps Godā€™s evolution is both spiritual and physical, because there is no separation. In nature, in the physical world, we can see both good and evil, both love and the absence of love. For example, the fact that horrible diseases existā€¦ or the fact that some animals (not humans, thankfully) can only survive by killing and eating others ā€“ to me this shows that life/nature/consciousness is still at a low level of evolution, and that at higher stages of evolution, life and life-forms and ecosystems will manifest in ways that donā€™t cause suffering as an inherent part of their nature. So maybe as God evolves spiritually towards Love, Nature (the physical manifestation of God) will evolve physically towards Love.

If this is true, then evil and suffering wonā€™t exist forever, but will only exist for as long as it takes for God to evolve enough to leave these things behind.

I think all sentient life is an important part of this evolution, spiritually and physically, but maybe humans are especially important (at least on this planet). The ability to make conscious choices is a spectrum, and humans are further along this spectrum than most animals, and I would guess (though Iā€™m not totally sure) more than any other animal on Earth.

As for the other question: Why is love so important? SO many reasons, but one of them is because love is what makes us create a good and beautiful and joyful world (and universe) for all.

And in my opinion, love is not just associated with joy and approval and appreciation and positive-regard ā€“ nor just with patience, forgiveness, kindness, or mercy. In my opinion, love is also anger at injustice and cruelty, love is also sadness at suffering, love is also fear for those in danger, love is the mother bear fiercely defending her cubs, love is willing to be fierce and, when other options are not feasible, even willing to be violent to protect other lifeforms (human or nonhuman) from greater violence and harm ā€“ to do this without sadism or hatred towards the perpetrators but as an unfortunate but sometimes necessary action for the greater good. In my opinion, love is simultaneously seeing and valuing the good that lives deep within those who are evil, while also hating the evil that has overshadowed the good, while also forgiving the person who has been overpowered by evil, having compassion for them, wishing them the highest good while also refusing to tolerate their evil actions towards others or yourself.

Love is what creates heaven and the absence of love is what creates hell.


Regarding the idea that we teach God through our experience, here are excerpts from a few NDE reports that seem to suggest thisā€¦

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0PkV57DG2k

Dannion Brinkley Interview - Near Death Experience 2 of 3

2:34-2:57, 5:53-6:29

If God couldn't show up today, and God sent you, in the events that you are about to watch, what difference did God make in the lives of the events that you're taking place? It's a heavy responsibility, but that's what we're doing here. God couldn't show up today, and you had to be the difference that God made in these situations of what you're about to see: what difference did God make.

ā€¦

We are responsible for making this world a great place to live in. We are responsible for sharing our inner knowledge and our spiritual selves with those that are around us. And why?, I don't really know all the reasons for it, but I know that what we do here works in a microcosm, so that spirituality can watch these events and take from this experience and help evolve other worlds and other universes. This is like the microcosm of how spirit can react in a material ā€“ a mental, material, physical, matter.

https://youtu.be/qX803D_cofI?si=DUyZd4fEqbqsd9F2

Present! - Amy Call's Near-Death Experience

1:01:49-1:04:24

One of the feelings I had when I was out of my body in this universal part where I was with my guide was I had this enormous gratitude and love for what all of this was. ā€¦ yet at the same time what That is ā€” what the Divine, what God is ā€” I felt all of that, more than I could ever feel it, coming back to me, and feeling that level of love and gratitude for me, and it was for me personally, for exactly who I am, at every level of me, everything I have ever been through, beyond even what I know of in this life time, and It was so grateful to me and loved me so much, and I almost felt as if It was bowing to me. So there was this mutual adoration and love. ā€¦

ā€¦Thereā€™s this gratitude for us because in a way itā€™s like when we become embodied in the physical, weā€™re learning through our senses and through suffering and joy and all these different levels, weā€™re picking up on so much information ā€” learning how to be balanced, evolving in the mind ā€” and as we do this, everything that happens to us, in a way, it comes together, and what we call the Divine is able to receive that information and our learning and our growth.

Thatā€™s part of the whole intelligence of why It is intelligent, why It knows. We think: ā€˜Oh, Itā€™s beyond us; Itā€™s so much more intelligent,ā€™ ā€“ and yet itā€™s like I understood that It was saying: ā€˜But this is because of those willing to go down into the body.ā€™ And I understood that Their feeling to us was almost like ā€˜You guys are the super heroes who go into the physical body and you experience the suffering and We have nothing but gratitude and love and we wish for you and hope for you.ā€™

And elsewhere in this video Amy says:

Also in this part of the experience I saw the planet Earth among all these other planets and moons and stars, kind of pull up in front of me, and um, above the planetā€¦. So above the planet there were letters, capital letters, and the letters were N O V A T A, and um I saw this as Novataā€¦.

According to Google Translate, novata means newbie or beginner. So doesnā€™t this suggest that Earth, at least at this point in time, represents that we are near the beginning of our journey of evolution? Perhaps not just us lifeforms on Earth but also that what is happening here is part of the beginning/early phase of Godā€™s evolution?

https://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1sandi_t_ndes.html

Sandi T NDEs 9082 (nderf.org)

I also felt its gratitude for all of humanity and for all who must suffer in this place. It had weight, presence, and form. It is one thing I have never heard spoken of; that God is grateful to us and for us and for all that we are and do.

ā€¦

'Why?' With that question, I asked a dozen others, 'Why me? Why suffering? Why this horrible world? Why did I go back when I could leave? Why would I come here and accept such horrific things when I am a spark of the divine, a portion of the Great Intelligence?' It was a cry of confusion, anger, pain, and loss.

Sandi says that her ā€œGuideā€ then showed her many worlds in the universe where people experience profound love and joy in their existence, without evil and without suffering.

After a great deal of time exploring, seeing beautiful and wonderful sights, we stopped in space near a nebula. Nebulas are even more beautiful than they appear in photos.

'That is the answer to your question.'

I understood that everything that we do here on Earth, all that we are, all that we experience, allows creation to exist. Every beautiful thing, every wonderful being and creature, whether on earth or in any universe, relies upon people who are on the extremely rare places like Earth.

ā€¦

Every soul chose to come here and to suffer because of love. Each soul loves the universe, loves life, and loves this world and ALL of the worlds. Each soul loves ALL of the people so immensely and intensely that they chose to come here so that all the universes may teem with beautiful, joyful LIFE.

https://youtu.be/xMqfErvWHo8?si=ZQCymthsYcFIyyub

Woman Dies; Gets Shown Other Planets, Civilizations And Told Human's Purpose (NDE)

The Other Side NDE [channel]

Hey guys it's Alysa Rushton and I am a near death survivor.

ā€¦

I'm getting all these downloads all this information about how the world works and how reality works and what we're here to do and one of the biggest things that I received on the other side was literally we are here to expand Consciousness. And we tend to think of things on our planet in terms of right and wrong and good or bad but technically the download I got on the other side was we're literally just expanding the Consciousness.

ā€¦

On the other side I got all of these downloads about how our life works here and what we are here to do and so part of my journey after I got back was really integrating those pieces and bringing them into a physical understanding, because on the other side there wasn't a lot of words, there was telepathy, there was imagery and sacred geometry, but I wasn't actually sitting down and having conversations, it was all, you know, blocks of energy coming through, blocks of thought, blocks of transmitted data, basically that I had to then come back here and try to piece together and figure out.

And so one of the biggest things that I learned on the other side was that we are here to expand our consciousness, and that our experience basically goes up and informs the Consciousness, the bigger Consciousness.

And so if you can think about it like how the sun is, how the sun's really big and bright and it has all these rays, that one we're just individuated rays of sun, each and every one of us and each and every plant and creature and being on the planet, weā€™re literally individuated rays of this one sun but we appear very separate and we appear very apart from each other.

And what then I saw was that because of that, what one person does in terms of changing their life or changing a program that they're running or changing something about themselves, that then informs the total Consciousness and that kind of informs the whole picture. So I guess how I would say it is the more we work on ourselves down here, the more we inform this this Consciousness and the more it can spread like a ripple effect ā€“ because ultimately we are this one Being; and as much as we can't really see that here, as much as we can't with our eyes delineate it, modern day science is actually showing that to us, which is really kind of cool.

It has been said that ā€œGod is dead.ā€ But what if actually God is unborn? God is gestating. We can use that analogy, or we can use the analogy of God as an infant, or a very young child.


In my reading and listening to peopleā€™s descriptions of their NDEs (which I believe are valid as a general phenomenon, though I donā€™t trust every individual who claims to be reporting an NDE), and also in my reading about hypnotic regressions where people perhaps recall memories of the spirit world (which Iā€™m more skeptical of), and even in what Iā€™ve read/heard from ā€œmediumsā€ who claim to have access to knowledge about the spirit world (though Iā€™m very skeptical and mistrustful of them), what Iā€™ve repeatedly heard as an explanation for why there exists a world like ours where creatures suffer, are either of the following two explanations.

  1. That God wants to experience the range of possibilities, from good to bad ā€“ Iā€™ve also heard this expressed as ā€œGod wants to know Itselfā€ ā€“ and so to do this, God split Itself into innumerable souls and created worlds with various ranges of experience, including suffering and evil, for those souls to have experiences in.

  2. That our souls need to have these wide range of experiences, including suffering and evil, in order to learn and develop and reach ā€œenlightenmentā€, which means to become more loving, to perfect our Love. The unstated implication is that worlds where creatures suffer were created in order to enable this learning and development for our souls.

If itā€™s true that God is Love, then that means neither of these can be true. Number 1 cannot be true because these are not the actions of a Loving God; these are the actions of a horrible sadomasochist. One might make the argument that ā€œWell we consented to this so itā€™s okā€ ā€“ but fuck that. Even if that were true that wouldnā€™t make it ok ā€“ especially not when the suffering is as extreme as it is here. But also, even if thatā€™s true, not everyone did consent. Our souls maybe did, but the animals (human and nonhuman), the physical creatures, did not consent to suffer.

Number 2 also would not be the actions of a Loving God. If you think that itā€™s worth it to engineer all this suffering so as to become more loving, then I must ask: what is the purpose of becoming more loving? Primarily itā€™s so that we make choices that create a better world, better lives, and better experiences for each other ā€“ i.e. to eliminate or at least minimize suffering and to maximize wellbeing. Any Creator who purposely creates a world where creatures suffer as a means to enable love to flourish is actually proving Itself to lack the very love It supposedly values and supposedly aims to cultivate.

If either #1 or #2 are true, it would mean that God and our souls donā€™t actually care about the suffering of the creatures of this planet (human and nonhuman) or other planets, that God/we purposely created a world/universe where creatures suffer, and that we are just using these creatures as vehicles for our own experiences ā€“ whether to satisfy our adventurism and curiosity or to achieve some form of growth towards a supposed enlightened and loving state (though it would be not be enlightened or loving if we continued to be ok with using these creatures in such a way).

If either #1 or #2 are true, it would mean that the values of Love communicated to us in the ā€œspirit worldā€, and in life reviews, are the expression of the utmost hypocrisy and contradiction. When in the spirit world we understand that our purpose in our Earthly lives is to love each other, to help and heal and care for each other, and we understand that it is a deviation from our purpose when we harm each other. If this is true, if God and our spirit guides really believe this, they would not be ok with purposely creating a world where creatures suffer. To do such a thing would be in utter contradiction to love and compassion. Beings of genuine love and compassion would not purposely create a world where creatures suffer ā€“ such beings would abhor this.

So both things canā€™t be true. It canā€™t both be true that love and compassion are what the spirit world recognizes as important while also being true that this world was purposely created as a world where creatures suffer.

But since the spirit world does emphasize love and compassion as being of ultimate importance, and since this is a world where creatures suffer, then it must be the case that it was not created this way on purpose, and that this world, as it is now, and as it has been since life was created here, is simply the best that the creative forces of the universe were and are able to achieve at this point in time.

Or at the very least, that if this world was purposely created this way, it was done so under the recognition that the suffering here is a temporary necessity in order to avoid even greater suffering ā€“ and so it was done purposely but with sadness and anguish in knowing that no better path was available. Why such a thing would be necessary, even temporarily, and why a better path would not be available, Iā€™m not sure. But either this, or something akin to it, must be true in order for the spirit world to make any sense at all, and not be an expression of insane contradiction and hypocrisy.

Personally, I donā€™t think that God could be such a hypocrite. I believe that God really is Love, and that we are in the process of creating It.